ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Yeah but that whole winning environment bothers me. OB is an idiot if he thinks he will have 53 JJs on any giving Sunday.
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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread
- Thread starter Marshall
- Start date
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Knuckheads get stuff done
He values his own coaching more than elite talent.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Yup
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
And his coaching is biggest flaw
Maybe letting JD go was as simple as he didn't want to bet 5yrs and 100 mil on JD's knee and thought it that $$$$ would be better spent on Tunsil protecting Watson's blindside.
If Jd's knee is as likely to blow out as CnD said I can understand how Clowney didn't draw as much interest on the trade market as we here think he should. With that said, BOB blew how he handled this. IMHO
If that's true then they should have just played him on the franchise tag. Get one of the last healthy years out of him.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Jerry Jones biggest flaw is he want to be right with his coach. Cal has the same problem
I showed the paragraph you left out.
Go check it out.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you tore-read the article you posted.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Which is fine, but the situation was managed by toddlers. Bleh the Clowney situation is over. We gotta live it with like the tunsil trade. Hope for the best but I'm sure Cal has learned from a mistake.
Agreed and what I would've done.
With that said, I can only imagine how much you would be b!tching if Clowney played next yr under the tag and blew out his knee.
Why would there be bitching?
These two got left out. What are they supposed to prove?
From the time the Texans finalized their plan to trade Clowney and acquire other players to bolster the roster, team chairman Cal McNair had coach Bill O'Brien as his point man doing most of the negotiations and closing the deals.
- Go beyond the breaking news and box scores with TXSN for just $29.95 annually.
Since McNair fired former general manager Brian Gaine in early June and gave O'Brien power over personnel, the Texans have been more aggressive in their pursuit of players.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Man the clowney knee thing is so played out. I mean 3 straight pro bowls right.
When watson has to resign we bring up his pro and college injuries???
When we resign Watt are his injuries gonna be a problem???
Dont want to hear about clowney knee.
I'm actually looking forward to a boardroom less future.
Because caserio will take over?
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
My coach needs to coach.
Anyone find it strange that clowney didnt want to play for a belichick tool. Yup a tool. How many tools of belichick have made it. Lol.
Give him that much credit.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
We will see about Clowney's knee. I just know CnD has performed many microfracture surgeries and they have a lifespan.
Blasphemy, but I would probably let Watt walk and spend the $$$$ elsewhere. Watt is an injury waiting to happen.
You have info that we dont know about?
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Dude it's one thing that fires up the clowney trade. Some people see watt at the end and clowney bout to blossom. Torch being passed would have been better. But the business side blocked that. Watt is human enough to when we see the Luck thing happening to him
Seth Payne said clowney got double teamed more than watt last year.
So we could see a reduced pass rush and lower sack totals for watt. This move hurts watt.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Texansballer74
The Marine
I'm hoping that youngster we got from the Longhorns fills that void.
Man I'm doing a lot of hoping these days. Lol
Possible but I’m hoping now having only one elite guy will cause RAC to go back to moving Watt all over the line and allowing him to free lance more.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Jones never has understood it, the Cowgirls are doing better because STEPHEN Jones has stepped in and started having more say. He’s the one that convinced Jerry to pass on Manziel saying he was going to be a bust.
Anyone know if Cal has a son?
Here is the article in "unadulterated state." You conveniently left out the 3rd paragraph [bolded below] in the article, because it did not conveniently fit your narative of hate for O'Brien.: There is no way in hell you could have omitted this singular paragraph accidentally but you can continue your BS for the rest of the MB to see so that everybody can see that your a special kind of F'ed up. It's obvious that you mistakenly thought most of the MB couldn't get past the pay wall to validate the authenticity of the article you posted.
*************************************************
After firing general manager Brian Gaine in June, Texans chairman Cal McNair (left) has given coach Bill O'Brien power over personnel as the team's de facto GM.
Photo: Brett Coomer, Staff photographer
The Texans have never admitted it publicly, but the framework to trade outside linebacker Jadeveon Clowney began to take shape before the 2018 season when they were unable to sign him to a multiyear contract extension.
The decision to trade Clowney turned out to be instrumental in the acquisition of Miami left tackle Laremy Tunsil even though, ultimately, Clowney was shipped to Seattle rather than the Dolphins. But the groundwork to get Tunsil to protect quarterback Deshaun Watson's blind side had been laid.
From the time the Texans finalized their plan to trade Clowney and acquire other players to bolster the roster, team chairman Cal McNair had coach Bill O'Brien as his point man doing most of the negotiations and closing the deals.
Since McNair fired former general manager Brian Gaine in early June and gave O'Brien power over personnel, the Texans have been more aggressive in their pursuit of players.
TEXANS
DAVID BARRON
On TV/Radio: NBC analysts puzzled by Texans' trades
Extensions signed during the 2018 offseason by Chicago outside linebacker Khalil Mack (six years, $141 million, $90 million guaranteed, $23.5 million average) and Los Angeles Rams defensive tackle Aaron Donald (six years, $135 million, $86.8 million guaranteed, $22.5 million average) complicated negotiations with other top pass rushers who saw an opportunity to get more lucrative contracts.
Dallas defensive end DeMarcus Lawrence and Seattle defensive end Frank Clark, who was traded to Kansas City, were able to take advantage of the elevated pay scale for elite pass rushers. Clowney was not.
Clowney's agent, Bus Cook, visited training camp in West Virginia last year to talk with Olsen, who oversees the salary cap and contract negotiations, but left without a deal.
When last season began, trading Clowney — or making another run at trying to extend him — was placed on the back burner and didn't reignite until before this year's draft, according to those familiar with the situation. Ultimately, the Clowney saga ended Aug. 31 when O'Brien dealt him to the Seahawks.
That same day, O'Brien acquired Tunsil, receiver Kenny Stills and a fourth-round draft choice from Miami. He sent the Dolphins two first-round draft choices, a second-round selection, offensive tackle Julién Davenport and cornerback Johnson Bademosi.
The Texans refused to pay Clowney like an elite pass rusher. Coupled with their desperation to find a franchise left tackle to replace Duane Brown, who was traded to Seattle during the 2017 season because of a contract dispute, they formulated a plan to swap Clowney for Tunsil.
Jadeveon Clowney was the Texans' first draft pick after Bill O'Brien was hired as coach in 2014, but O'Brien eventually soured on the former South Carolina star, whom O'Brien didn't believe was part of the team culture conducive to winning.
Photo: Brett Coomer, Houston Chronicle
When the Texans placed the non-exclusive franchise tag on Clowney in early March, former general manager Brian Gaine said they would continue to try to sign him, but there were no substantive negotiations after that.
The franchise tag meant another team could sign Clowney, and if the Texans didn't match, they would have received two first-round picks. No team was interested in him at that price tag.
Before this year's draft, the Texans tried to trade Clowney. They contacted more than 10 teams. They zeroed in on Kansas City, but the Chiefs acquired Clark from the Seahawks. They surrendered first- and second-round draft choices for Clark and a third-round pick.
Clark signed a new contract with the Chiefs (five years, $104 million, $62.3 million guaranteed, $20.8 million average).
Lawrence, meanwhile, re-signed with the Cowboys (five years, $105 million, $65 million guaranteed, $21 million average).
Clowney wanted a contract slightly more than Clark and Lawrence, but the Texans had decided they weren't going to pay him $100 million, no matter how many players signed contracts in that stratosphere.
Seattle general manager John Schneider disclosed last week he first spoke to the Texans about Clowney before the draft. They wanted too much. He still had Clark on the roster. After trading Clark to the Chiefs, Schneider remained patient and wouldn't bite on a Clowney deal unless the price was reduced significantly.
After McNair fired Gaine in early June, O'Brien became the general manager without the title and was determined to be more aggressive in the trade market than Gaine had been.
O'Brien and his offensive staff had coveted Tunsil for two months and wanted him in a deal that included Clowney and draft choices.
Clowey had known for weeks he was going to be traded when he signed the tender. Once the July 15 deadline passed for franchise players to sign multiyear contracts until 2020, Clowney was holding the cards. He could veto any trade by not signing his franchise-tag tender.
The Texans offered to trade Clowney to Miami for Tunsil and multiple high draft picks. The Dolphins wanted Clowney, but he didn't want the Dolphins even though he had worked out in Miami during the offseason when he refused to report to the Texans because he was unhappy about not getting a long-term deal.
According to two people close to Clowney, he didn't want to play at Miami for two reasons: the Dolphins are rebuilding, and he didn't want to play for a team that wasn't a playoff contender.
Clowney also didn't want to play for new Dolphins coach Brian Flores, who left New England for Miami. Clowney wasn't interested in playing for another Bill Belichick disciple after spending five years with O'Brien.
The Texans gave the Dolphins permission to meet with Clowney, but Flores couldn't change his mind.
One of the reasons Jadeveon Clowney wasn't keen on a trade to Miami was his lack of interest in playing for another Bill Belichick disciple in new Dolphins coach Brian Flores.
Photo: Sean Gardner, Getty Images
Over the past three years, O'Brien always said good things when asked about Clowney. But what he didn't say was revealing.
Usually, when O'Brien is asked about one of his players, he talks about what great team players they are and how hard they work. He never described Clowney that way. Several close to O'Brien said he didn't believe Clowney was part of the team culture he believes is conducive to winning.
Cook knew his client had three options: Sit out regular-season games and lose $939,000 a week, wait until teams were no longer interested in a trade and play one more season for the Texans or sign the tender and be traded.
Cook reiterated to the Texans that Clowney wasn't going to Miami. Cook told them to target Seattle or Philadelphia, two playoff contenders that play 4-3 schemes, which would allow Clowney to return to right defensive end, his natural position.
Brown, the Texans' first-round pick in 2008 who signed a multiyear contract with Seattle last year, was contacted by Clowney a month before the trade.
Brown told Seattle reporters he said good things about coach Pete Carroll, the organization, the weather and the city. Clowney expressed interest in finding a way to get to the Seahawks as Brown had done in 2017 when former general manager Rick Smith traded him for second- and third-round draft choices.
The Eagles came up with an offer, but it wasn't as good as Seattle made. The Seahawks offered a third-round draft choice and two defensive ends, Barkevious Mingo and Jacob Martin, who'll be moved to outside linebacker by the Texans.
For more than a year, agents tried to entice Clowney to leave Cook, claiming they could have gotten him the kind of contract he wanted. Finally, Clowney fired Cook but didn't sign with a new agent. A week later, he rehired Cook, and the trade was completed.
O'Brien got McNair to chip in $7 million of Clowney's $15.967 million salary this season.
Somehow, Cook convinced the Seahawks to promise not to designate Clowney as the franchise player again in 2020. That means Clowney could be one and done in Seattle. If he stays healthy and plays well, either the Seahawks or another team should reward him with a contract that'll pay him north of $100 million.
In Laremy Tunsil, the Texans believe they have a long-term solution for their left-tackle problem and protector for star quarterback Deshaun Watson.
Photo: Karen Warren/Houston Chronicle
Meanwhile, at the same time the Clowney deal was going down, O'Brien continued to pursue Tunsil.
With Clowney out of the picture, O'Brien sweetened the pot for Miami, offering two No. 1 picks and a second-round selection while also asking for Stills to be included.
As a coach, O'Brien wants to win now. As a de facto general manager, he'll worry about the 2020 and 2021 drafts later.
The Texans' thinking was this, according to three people close to the situation: Tunsil would step in at left tackle and help protect Watson for years. Both will get extensions next year. Stills brings speed, durability, a 16-yard average per catch in his career and 21 touchdowns over the last three years.
The Texans believe, like this year, they'll be picking low in the first and second rounds. They can spend more in free agency to make up for the loss of draft choices. Or they could possibly trade back into the first and second rounds.
With O'Brien being in charge now, it's clear by his actions on cutdown day a new era has been ushered in when it comes to player acquisitions. If Aug. 31 was an indication of how O'Brien is going to operate, fans could be in for a wild ride during the next free agency period and the 2020 draft.
*************************************************
After firing general manager Brian Gaine in June, Texans chairman Cal McNair (left) has given coach Bill O'Brien power over personnel as the team's de facto GM.
Photo: Brett Coomer, Staff photographer
The Texans have never admitted it publicly, but the framework to trade outside linebacker Jadeveon Clowney began to take shape before the 2018 season when they were unable to sign him to a multiyear contract extension.
The decision to trade Clowney turned out to be instrumental in the acquisition of Miami left tackle Laremy Tunsil even though, ultimately, Clowney was shipped to Seattle rather than the Dolphins. But the groundwork to get Tunsil to protect quarterback Deshaun Watson's blind side had been laid.
From the time the Texans finalized their plan to trade Clowney and acquire other players to bolster the roster, team chairman Cal McNair had coach Bill O'Brien as his point man doing most of the negotiations and closing the deals.
- Go beyond the breaking news and box scores with TXSN for just $29.95 annually.
Since McNair fired former general manager Brian Gaine in early June and gave O'Brien power over personnel, the Texans have been more aggressive in their pursuit of players.
TEXANS
DAVID BARRON
On TV/Radio: NBC analysts puzzled by Texans' trades
Extensions signed during the 2018 offseason by Chicago outside linebacker Khalil Mack (six years, $141 million, $90 million guaranteed, $23.5 million average) and Los Angeles Rams defensive tackle Aaron Donald (six years, $135 million, $86.8 million guaranteed, $22.5 million average) complicated negotiations with other top pass rushers who saw an opportunity to get more lucrative contracts.
Dallas defensive end DeMarcus Lawrence and Seattle defensive end Frank Clark, who was traded to Kansas City, were able to take advantage of the elevated pay scale for elite pass rushers. Clowney was not.
Clowney's agent, Bus Cook, visited training camp in West Virginia last year to talk with Olsen, who oversees the salary cap and contract negotiations, but left without a deal.
When last season began, trading Clowney — or making another run at trying to extend him — was placed on the back burner and didn't reignite until before this year's draft, according to those familiar with the situation. Ultimately, the Clowney saga ended Aug. 31 when O'Brien dealt him to the Seahawks.
That same day, O'Brien acquired Tunsil, receiver Kenny Stills and a fourth-round draft choice from Miami. He sent the Dolphins two first-round draft choices, a second-round selection, offensive tackle Julién Davenport and cornerback Johnson Bademosi.
The Texans refused to pay Clowney like an elite pass rusher. Coupled with their desperation to find a franchise left tackle to replace Duane Brown, who was traded to Seattle during the 2017 season because of a contract dispute, they formulated a plan to swap Clowney for Tunsil.
Jadeveon Clowney was the Texans' first draft pick after Bill O'Brien was hired as coach in 2014, but O'Brien eventually soured on the former South Carolina star, whom O'Brien didn't believe was part of the team culture conducive to winning.
Photo: Brett Coomer, Houston Chronicle
When the Texans placed the non-exclusive franchise tag on Clowney in early March, former general manager Brian Gaine said they would continue to try to sign him, but there were no substantive negotiations after that.
The franchise tag meant another team could sign Clowney, and if the Texans didn't match, they would have received two first-round picks. No team was interested in him at that price tag.
Before this year's draft, the Texans tried to trade Clowney. They contacted more than 10 teams. They zeroed in on Kansas City, but the Chiefs acquired Clark from the Seahawks. They surrendered first- and second-round draft choices for Clark and a third-round pick.
Clark signed a new contract with the Chiefs (five years, $104 million, $62.3 million guaranteed, $20.8 million average).
Lawrence, meanwhile, re-signed with the Cowboys (five years, $105 million, $65 million guaranteed, $21 million average).
Clowney wanted a contract slightly more than Clark and Lawrence, but the Texans had decided they weren't going to pay him $100 million, no matter how many players signed contracts in that stratosphere.
Seattle general manager John Schneider disclosed last week he first spoke to the Texans about Clowney before the draft. They wanted too much. He still had Clark on the roster. After trading Clark to the Chiefs, Schneider remained patient and wouldn't bite on a Clowney deal unless the price was reduced significantly.
After McNair fired Gaine in early June, O'Brien became the general manager without the title and was determined to be more aggressive in the trade market than Gaine had been.
O'Brien and his offensive staff had coveted Tunsil for two months and wanted him in a deal that included Clowney and draft choices.
Clowey had known for weeks he was going to be traded when he signed the tender. Once the July 15 deadline passed for franchise players to sign multiyear contracts until 2020, Clowney was holding the cards. He could veto any trade by not signing his franchise-tag tender.
The Texans offered to trade Clowney to Miami for Tunsil and multiple high draft picks. The Dolphins wanted Clowney, but he didn't want the Dolphins even though he had worked out in Miami during the offseason when he refused to report to the Texans because he was unhappy about not getting a long-term deal.
According to two people close to Clowney, he didn't want to play at Miami for two reasons: the Dolphins are rebuilding, and he didn't want to play for a team that wasn't a playoff contender.
Clowney also didn't want to play for new Dolphins coach Brian Flores, who left New England for Miami. Clowney wasn't interested in playing for another Bill Belichick disciple after spending five years with O'Brien.
The Texans gave the Dolphins permission to meet with Clowney, but Flores couldn't change his mind.
One of the reasons Jadeveon Clowney wasn't keen on a trade to Miami was his lack of interest in playing for another Bill Belichick disciple in new Dolphins coach Brian Flores.
Photo: Sean Gardner, Getty Images
Over the past three years, O'Brien always said good things when asked about Clowney. But what he didn't say was revealing.
Usually, when O'Brien is asked about one of his players, he talks about what great team players they are and how hard they work. He never described Clowney that way. Several close to O'Brien said he didn't believe Clowney was part of the team culture he believes is conducive to winning.
Cook knew his client had three options: Sit out regular-season games and lose $939,000 a week, wait until teams were no longer interested in a trade and play one more season for the Texans or sign the tender and be traded.
Cook reiterated to the Texans that Clowney wasn't going to Miami. Cook told them to target Seattle or Philadelphia, two playoff contenders that play 4-3 schemes, which would allow Clowney to return to right defensive end, his natural position.
Brown, the Texans' first-round pick in 2008 who signed a multiyear contract with Seattle last year, was contacted by Clowney a month before the trade.
Brown told Seattle reporters he said good things about coach Pete Carroll, the organization, the weather and the city. Clowney expressed interest in finding a way to get to the Seahawks as Brown had done in 2017 when former general manager Rick Smith traded him for second- and third-round draft choices.
The Eagles came up with an offer, but it wasn't as good as Seattle made. The Seahawks offered a third-round draft choice and two defensive ends, Barkevious Mingo and Jacob Martin, who'll be moved to outside linebacker by the Texans.
For more than a year, agents tried to entice Clowney to leave Cook, claiming they could have gotten him the kind of contract he wanted. Finally, Clowney fired Cook but didn't sign with a new agent. A week later, he rehired Cook, and the trade was completed.
O'Brien got McNair to chip in $7 million of Clowney's $15.967 million salary this season.
Somehow, Cook convinced the Seahawks to promise not to designate Clowney as the franchise player again in 2020. That means Clowney could be one and done in Seattle. If he stays healthy and plays well, either the Seahawks or another team should reward him with a contract that'll pay him north of $100 million.
In Laremy Tunsil, the Texans believe they have a long-term solution for their left-tackle problem and protector for star quarterback Deshaun Watson.
Photo: Karen Warren/Houston Chronicle
Meanwhile, at the same time the Clowney deal was going down, O'Brien continued to pursue Tunsil.
With Clowney out of the picture, O'Brien sweetened the pot for Miami, offering two No. 1 picks and a second-round selection while also asking for Stills to be included.
As a coach, O'Brien wants to win now. As a de facto general manager, he'll worry about the 2020 and 2021 drafts later.
The Texans' thinking was this, according to three people close to the situation: Tunsil would step in at left tackle and help protect Watson for years. Both will get extensions next year. Stills brings speed, durability, a 16-yard average per catch in his career and 21 touchdowns over the last three years.
The Texans believe, like this year, they'll be picking low in the first and second rounds. They can spend more in free agency to make up for the loss of draft choices. Or they could possibly trade back into the first and second rounds.
With O'Brien being in charge now, it's clear by his actions on cutdown day a new era has been ushered in when it comes to player acquisitions. If Aug. 31 was an indication of how O'Brien is going to operate, fans could be in for a wild ride during the next free agency period and the 2020 draft.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Dude this what what was fed. Not like we know it's TRUE. This organization has kept a lid on things for years. Now all of a sudden this fluff piece drops. Dont be a tool[/QUOTE]
Last edited:
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Would be nice but he doesn’t have the athleticism to man the elephant anymore. He’s the guy who will line up on the weak side of the line and use straight lines and power to get to the backfield. Still effective, but those lateral quick twitch fibers are gone. Sexy ass stats though can’t argue with them before some guys freak out and earlier in his career he did move around a lot.
I’d guess that Mercy would walk the line in the amoeba fronts. Maybe Omenihu can develop into the role.
Here is the article in "unadulterated state." You conveniently left out the 3rd paragraph [bolded below] in the article, because it did not conveniently fit your narative of hate for O'Brien.: There is no way in hell you could have omitted this singular paragraph accidentally but you can continue your BS for the rest of the MB to see so that everybody can see that your a special kind of F'ed up. It's obvious that you mistakenly thought most of the MB couldn't get past the pay wall to validate the authenticity of the article you posted.
*************************************************
After firing general manager Brian Gaine in June, Texans chairman Cal McNair (left) has given coach Bill O'Brien power over personnel as the team's de facto GM.
Photo: Brett Coomer, Staff photographer
The Texans have never admitted it publicly, but the framework to trade outside linebacker Jadeveon Clowney began to take shape before the 2018 season when they were unable to sign him to a multiyear contract extension.
The decision to trade Clowney turned out to be instrumental in the acquisition of Miami left tackle Laremy Tunsil even though, ultimately, Clowney was shipped to Seattle rather than the Dolphins. But the groundwork to get Tunsil to protect quarterback Deshaun Watson's blind side had been laid.
From the time the Texans finalized their plan to trade Clowney and acquire other players to bolster the roster, team chairman Cal McNair had coach Bill O'Brien as his point man doing most of the negotiations and closing the deals.
SUBSCRIBE
- Go beyond the breaking news and box scores with TXSN for just $29.95 annually.
Since McNair fired former general manager Brian Gaine in early June and gave O'Brien power over personnel, the Texans have been more aggressive in their pursuit of players.
TEXANS
DAVID BARRON
On TV/Radio: NBC analysts puzzled by Texans' trades
Extensions signed during the 2018 offseason by Chicago outside linebacker Khalil Mack (six years, $141 million, $90 million guaranteed, $23.5 million average) and Los Angeles Rams defensive tackle Aaron Donald (six years, $135 million, $86.8 million guaranteed, $22.5 million average) complicated negotiations with other top pass rushers who saw an opportunity to get more lucrative contracts.
Dallas defensive end DeMarcus Lawrence and Seattle defensive end Frank Clark, who was traded to Kansas City, were able to take advantage of the elevated pay scale for elite pass rushers. Clowney was not.
Clowney's agent, Bus Cook, visited training camp in West Virginia last year to talk with Olsen, who oversees the salary cap and contract negotiations, but left without a deal.
When last season began, trading Clowney — or making another run at trying to extend him — was placed on the back burner and didn't reignite until before this year's draft, according to those familiar with the situation. Ultimately, the Clowney saga ended Aug. 31 when O'Brien dealt him to the Seahawks.
That same day, O'Brien acquired Tunsil, receiver Kenny Stills and a fourth-round draft choice from Miami. He sent the Dolphins two first-round draft choices, a second-round selection, offensive tackle Julién Davenport and cornerback Johnson Bademosi.
The Texans refused to pay Clowney like an elite pass rusher. Coupled with their desperation to find a franchise left tackle to replace Duane Brown, who was traded to Seattle during the 2017 season because of a contract dispute, they formulated a plan to swap Clowney for Tunsil.
Jadeveon Clowney was the Texans' first draft pick after Bill O'Brien was hired as coach in 2014, but O'Brien eventually soured on the former South Carolina star, whom O'Brien didn't believe was part of the team culture conducive to winning.
Photo: Brett Coomer, Houston Chronicle
When the Texans placed the non-exclusive franchise tag on Clowney in early March, former general manager Brian Gaine said they would continue to try to sign him, but there were no substantive negotiations after that.
The franchise tag meant another team could sign Clowney, and if the Texans didn't match, they would have received two first-round picks. No team was interested in him at that price tag.
Before this year's draft, the Texans tried to trade Clowney. They contacted more than 10 teams. They zeroed in on Kansas City, but the Chiefs acquired Clark from the Seahawks. They surrendered first- and second-round draft choices for Clark and a third-round pick.
Clark signed a new contract with the Chiefs (five years, $104 million, $62.3 million guaranteed, $20.8 million average).
Lawrence, meanwhile, re-signed with the Cowboys (five years, $105 million, $65 million guaranteed, $21 million average).
Clowney wanted a contract slightly more than Clark and Lawrence, but the Texans had decided they weren't going to pay him $100 million, no matter how many players signed contracts in that stratosphere.
Seattle general manager John Schneider disclosed last week he first spoke to the Texans about Clowney before the draft. They wanted too much. He still had Clark on the roster. After trading Clark to the Chiefs, Schneider remained patient and wouldn't bite on a Clowney deal unless the price was reduced significantly.
After McNair fired Gaine in early June, O'Brien became the general manager without the title and was determined to be more aggressive in the trade market than Gaine had been.
O'Brien and his offensive staff had coveted Tunsil for two months and wanted him in a deal that included Clowney and draft choices.
Clowey had known for weeks he was going to be traded when he signed the tender. Once the July 15 deadline passed for franchise players to sign multiyear contracts until 2020, Clowney was holding the cards. He could veto any trade by not signing his franchise-tag tender.
The Texans offered to trade Clowney to Miami for Tunsil and multiple high draft picks. The Dolphins wanted Clowney, but he didn't want the Dolphins even though he had worked out in Miami during the offseason when he refused to report to the Texans because he was unhappy about not getting a long-term deal.
According to two people close to Clowney, he didn't want to play at Miami for two reasons: the Dolphins are rebuilding, and he didn't want to play for a team that wasn't a playoff contender.
Clowney also didn't want to play for new Dolphins coach Brian Flores, who left New England for Miami. Clowney wasn't interested in playing for another Bill Belichick disciple after spending five years with O'Brien.
The Texans gave the Dolphins permission to meet with Clowney, but Flores couldn't change his mind.
One of the reasons Jadeveon Clowney wasn't keen on a trade to Miami was his lack of interest in playing for another Bill Belichick disciple in new Dolphins coach Brian Flores.
Photo: Sean Gardner, Getty Images
Over the past three years, O'Brien always said good things when asked about Clowney. But what he didn't say was revealing.
Usually, when O'Brien is asked about one of his players, he talks about what great team players they are and how hard they work. He never described Clowney that way. Several close to O'Brien said he didn't believe Clowney was part of the team culture he believes is conducive to winning.
Cook knew his client had three options: Sit out regular-season games and lose $939,000 a week, wait until teams were no longer interested in a trade and play one more season for the Texans or sign the tender and be traded.
Cook reiterated to the Texans that Clowney wasn't going to Miami. Cook told them to target Seattle or Philadelphia, two playoff contenders that play 4-3 schemes, which would allow Clowney to return to right defensive end, his natural position.
Brown, the Texans' first-round pick in 2008 who signed a multiyear contract with Seattle last year, was contacted by Clowney a month before the trade.
Brown told Seattle reporters he said good things about coach Pete Carroll, the organization, the weather and the city. Clowney expressed interest in finding a way to get to the Seahawks as Brown had done in 2017 when former general manager Rick Smith traded him for second- and third-round draft choices.
The Eagles came up with an offer, but it wasn't as good as Seattle made. The Seahawks offered a third-round draft choice and two defensive ends, Barkevious Mingo and Jacob Martin, who'll be moved to outside linebacker by the Texans.
For more than a year, agents tried to entice Clowney to leave Cook, claiming they could have gotten him the kind of contract he wanted. Finally, Clowney fired Cook but didn't sign with a new agent. A week later, he rehired Cook, and the trade was completed.
O'Brien got McNair to chip in $7 million of Clowney's $15.967 million salary this season.
Somehow, Cook convinced the Seahawks to promise not to designate Clowney as the franchise player again in 2020. That means Clowney could be one and done in Seattle. If he stays healthy and plays well, either the Seahawks or another team should reward him with a contract that'll pay him north of $100 million.
In Laremy Tunsil, the Texans believe they have a long-term solution for their left-tackle problem and protector for star quarterback Deshaun Watson.
Photo: Karen Warren/Houston Chronicle
Meanwhile, at the same time the Clowney deal was going down, O'Brien continued to pursue Tunsil.
With Clowney out of the picture, O'Brien sweetened the pot for Miami, offering two No. 1 picks and a second-round selection while also asking for Stills to be included.
As a coach, O'Brien wants to win now. As a de facto general manager, he'll worry about the 2020 and 2021 drafts later.
The Texans' thinking was this, according to three people close to the situation: Tunsil would step in at left tackle and help protect Watson for years. Both will get extensions next year. Stills brings speed, durability, a 16-yard average per catch in his career and 21 touchdowns over the last three years.
The Texans believe, like this year, they'll be picking low in the first and second rounds. They can spend more in free agency to make up for the loss of draft choices. Or they could possibly trade back into the first and second rounds.
With O'Brien being in charge now, it's clear by his actions on cutdown day a new era has been ushered in when it comes to player acquisitions. If Aug. 31 was an indication of how O'Brien is going to operate, fans could be in for a wild ride during the next free agency period and the 2020 draft.
Lol. I also left out the paragraph after that. Neither contradicts my narrative anyway.
I also included the link to the entire article.
badboy
Hall of Fame
But they could pay all of them.
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JWLCASPER
Waterboy
Wanted to hold off to post again on this topic. In my honest opinion this was the most logical and best decision for Houston based on the Texans upcoming cap expenditures. This is not the popular fan move, because Clowney is a household name with certain traits you cannot teach. However, from day 1 he was miscast as an OLB for us (I really liked Mack coming out that year for obvious reasons, but I knew there was no way the Texans didn’t take Clowney so I never flinched when they did.) Clowney is a 4-3 Weakside DE period. It is the position he was always meant to play. I am happy he went to Seattle where he can play that position and do it well. However, people forget that when Clowney was drafted it then created a situation where Mercilus was miscast as a SAM. Mercilus thrived and was extended in part due to his excellence from the Jack(ROLB) position opposite Watt. He didn’t need to be Watt’s clean up man ala Brooks Reed. He needed to attack the quarterback.
With those two statements made, the Clowney trade absolutely was the right move to make if negotiations were far apart with JDC. You don’t want a disgruntled star messing up the locker room vibe. Bash BOb all you want, (I will too at times,) but this was a Patriot style move. In 2016 the Patriots shocked the NFL by moving Jamie Collins for a 4th (eventually became a comp 3rd) from the Cleveland Browns. This was arguably the Patriots best defensive player the prior season who was due a big raise. Belichick did not think an elite coverage linebacker who did not play fundamental team defense was worth what he was demanding. BOb did not think an elite run defender who wanted top 3 defensive player money was worth what he was demanding. I applaud BOb for having the .... to pull it off and take the backlash with it. He doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt like Belichick.
"We did what we thought was best for the football team," Patriots coach Bill Belichick said, according to WEEI-FM in Boston.
“The 27-year-old second-round pick was nearing the end of his rookie contract and will become a free agent this offseason. Graded by Pro Football Focus as one of the league's most dominant and versatile outside linebackers, Collins was almost surely in for a deal that Belichick wasn't willing to pay for.”
CITE: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ngland-patriots-trade-jamie-collins-to-browns
The Tunsil/Stills/Hyde moves can be talked about in other threads, but one short note here. Houston could not trade for Tunsil and his pending bar setting LT contract while giving up that much collateral while also playing cap gymnastics with Clowney. The two players time in Houston were always linked due to money dispersement. I’ll take my (McNair’s) money on a healthy Watson with Tunsil protecting him over WHATEVER Clowney gave us from ROLB. Clowney could have 25 sacks and 50 TFL next year in our system and it would all be for naught if our prior LT situation let Watson get injured/irreparably skittish. We have seen Watt put up one of the best defensive seasons in history, TWICE. What did that get Houston. Clowney would never give us the stats in our scheme to justify the money he was demanding.
I don’t trust BOb necessarily, but I believe in Watson.
JWL
With those two statements made, the Clowney trade absolutely was the right move to make if negotiations were far apart with JDC. You don’t want a disgruntled star messing up the locker room vibe. Bash BOb all you want, (I will too at times,) but this was a Patriot style move. In 2016 the Patriots shocked the NFL by moving Jamie Collins for a 4th (eventually became a comp 3rd) from the Cleveland Browns. This was arguably the Patriots best defensive player the prior season who was due a big raise. Belichick did not think an elite coverage linebacker who did not play fundamental team defense was worth what he was demanding. BOb did not think an elite run defender who wanted top 3 defensive player money was worth what he was demanding. I applaud BOb for having the .... to pull it off and take the backlash with it. He doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt like Belichick.
"We did what we thought was best for the football team," Patriots coach Bill Belichick said, according to WEEI-FM in Boston.
“The 27-year-old second-round pick was nearing the end of his rookie contract and will become a free agent this offseason. Graded by Pro Football Focus as one of the league's most dominant and versatile outside linebackers, Collins was almost surely in for a deal that Belichick wasn't willing to pay for.”
CITE: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ngland-patriots-trade-jamie-collins-to-browns
The Tunsil/Stills/Hyde moves can be talked about in other threads, but one short note here. Houston could not trade for Tunsil and his pending bar setting LT contract while giving up that much collateral while also playing cap gymnastics with Clowney. The two players time in Houston were always linked due to money dispersement. I’ll take my (McNair’s) money on a healthy Watson with Tunsil protecting him over WHATEVER Clowney gave us from ROLB. Clowney could have 25 sacks and 50 TFL next year in our system and it would all be for naught if our prior LT situation let Watson get injured/irreparably skittish. We have seen Watt put up one of the best defensive seasons in history, TWICE. What did that get Houston. Clowney would never give us the stats in our scheme to justify the money he was demanding.
I don’t trust BOb necessarily, but I believe in Watson.
JWL
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This is insane. The Seahawks deal was more than the Eagles deal.
I can't wait till next season to see what the NFL thinks he's worth without the tag.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Huh? Why did I get quoted on this?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
[/QUOTE]
Lol since when have ya’ll needed truth to validate ya’ll’s narrative?
Clowney was supposed to command a kings ransom according to ya’ll. McClain’s article basically says no one wanted to give us **** for him...& a lot of this was before the July 15 deadline around draft time.
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So have the rules changed that we're now allowed to post full articles?
Just asking so I don't have to waste time cutting and pasting with links and whatnot.
Just asking so I don't have to waste time cutting and pasting with links and whatnot.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The article doesn’t state that the Texans were looking specifically for an LT in any compensation they wanted in return for Clowney. It just says they specifically targeted Tunsil and were willing to move Clowney in the a deal for him. Regardless, they tried negotiating with dude for a full year to no avail, they tried dealing dude before the deadline and got nowhere, no one was apparently offering this kings ransom package ya’ll swear up & down he was supposed to command..before or after the July 15 deadline. I think it’s pretty clear those 3 things were much more of a factor in just moving on and getting what u could for him than BoB “going all teapot” and hating his guts...trying desperately to move him.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Doesn't appear to be any rules at the moment.
I never said he will get a kings ransom. I think the Texans drove down his value. I think next year he'll get around $20m per year.
Well I didn't post the full article. Apparently I cut out a single paragraph in an anti O'Brien conspiracy.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I think it was a combination. I think the Texans wanted a lot for him and I think Clowney or his agent thought his value was much higher than it is. Texans started shopping but everyone told them the price was to high, Clowney wanted a new contract and the Texans told him he was to high.
Things got personal not just between BoB and Clowney but I think between the Texans has a whole and Clowney. Overall I don’t think there will be any winners in this deal. Texans are losers in the short term because they gave up Clowney for peanuts but I think Clowney will lose long term as well because he’s not going to get the kind of money he seems to want unless he has a banner year with Seattle.
I keep asking this question but what team is going to point to a Clowney and say “that’s the missing piece we need for a SB run” or “that’s the guy we can build a defense around.”
It's like... first rule of fight club
You don't talk about moderators are on sabbatical.
I really don't know, but something in the 18-20m range is what I expect. He'll be below Mack and Donald I think. Unless someone thinks it's very valuable to have a run stopper.
I think it made a lot of sense capwise to trade clowney. But it was done in the most incompetent way possible. Might as well have rescinded the tag
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Oh I agree this was handled badly. They should have either made him play on the tag or made him miss checks. Clowney definitely had to go long term because resigning Watson, Watt, Hopkins and now Tunsil is far more important.
Honestly I think the whole thing started because Clowney’s agent convinced him that he could get him Mack money and by the time Clowney realized that it wasn’t happening and fired his agent it was to late, the damage was done. I think that’s why he fired his agent and then rehired him because it was to far along for another agent to try and pick it up and the season was to close to starting. I would not be at all surprised if he doesn’t retire his agent before next off season.
Texans side I think BoB is to emotional to be a long term GM answer. I like the Tunsil trade and think the picks were worth it but BoB doesn’t seem able to work with people he doesn’t like. In other words it’s never just business with him. I think it makes him a better coach in that his players know he is real, hence why he has kept the locker room last season, but no it doesn’t make him a good business man.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Bottom line:
Clowney had a medical history that made him hard to sign and hard to deal. They looked at moving him and obviously there weren’t many takers. The absolute maximum they could get was one year of play and a 3rd round comp pick, assuming all went well. They got a higher 3rd round pick in a more recent draft, cap space, and two players to evaluate. That’s a win. Any fantasy of getting more is just that, fantasy.
Clowney isn’t what many on this board seem to view him as, which is clearly a franchise type player. The medical history alone would keep most from signing him long term at a high salary.
This is basically a no-brainer trade for anyone who understands the risks.
Clowney had a medical history that made him hard to sign and hard to deal. They looked at moving him and obviously there weren’t many takers. The absolute maximum they could get was one year of play and a 3rd round comp pick, assuming all went well. They got a higher 3rd round pick in a more recent draft, cap space, and two players to evaluate. That’s a win. Any fantasy of getting more is just that, fantasy.
Clowney isn’t what many on this board seem to view him as, which is clearly a franchise type player. The medical history alone would keep most from signing him long term at a high salary.
This is basically a no-brainer trade for anyone who understands the risks.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Can we please stop trying to use the medical history stuff as an excuse to why we moved Clowney.
Will they do this to Watson and Will Fuller when it's time to pay them?
Will they do this to Watson and Will Fuller when it's time to pay them?
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Fuller... most likely. Kenny Stills is here, most likely for that very reason.
Watson... we're going to ride that horse till his knees give out.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
If they have medical issues, probably. I sure hope so.
This is common sense.
They’ve also done decently in shoring up OLB depth in recent drafts, without much investment.
I’m looking at a FO making decisions that make sense. I’m not sure I’ve seen that before from the Texans in such a brazen way. I like it a lot.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Fuller I think is on his way out. Stills’ Acquistion puts him on notice imo.