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The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
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Ben and bradys offenses are built around them having more talent at the recieving positions than you can cover. They rely on their talent flat out bearing your db's coverage and having qb's good enough to make plays.

Not that they don't have good play design, but they aren't running plays where the whole offense makes it look like a stretch running plays and then all of a sudden receivers break into their routes.

How many times have you seen schaub on a straight drop back read the coverage, manipulate safeties maybe scramble and escape some pressure and then launch a ball hitting a guy in stride streaking way down the field?

The answer to that may just actually be never.

And if you haven't given kubiak good enough credit as an offensive mind then I don't know what to tell you.

Credit as an overall coach? Not from me. He's about average as a head coach overall.

I don't know qnd haven't thought about the Importance of the long ball being completed at a high rate, but I do know that CIRCUMSTANCES in which schaub delivers his long ball are different than a lot of other qb's based on the design of the offense.
Some really good points. They do not undermine or diminish infantrycak's original point, as his premise was based on numbers and stats.

However, it is very interesting to look into how those balls are delivered and from what circumstances.

I cannot recall too many, if any, times that Schaub dropped back, manipulated safeties, and landed a deep ball in stride for a TD/long gain.

Is that due to scheme or talent? Or combo of both?
 

Vinny

shiny happy fan
Some really good points. They do not undermine or diminish infantrycak's original point, as his premise was based on numbers and stats.

However, it is very interesting to look into how those balls are delivered and from what circumstances.

I cannot recall too many, if any, times that Schaub dropped back, manipulated safeties, and landed a deep ball in stride for a TD/long gain.

Is that due to scheme or talent? Or combo of both?
Andre Johnson....1500 yards and 4TD's. Four. That's almost impossible.

Let me just say that when your head coach comes out in public and states that we are not going to throw the ball to Foster because we don't want to overwork him...and then you don't throw the ball to Foster....well, you aren't exactly the Patriots.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
And also we need to compare Schaub to players about his level, not guys that earn more.

Why do we even try to compare Schaub with Brady and Ben?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
And also we need to compare Schaub to players about his level, not guys that earn more.

Why do we even try to compare Schaub with Brady and Ben?
Because the question is, "Can we win a Super Bowl with Schaub"

Until avg schmoes start winning the Super Bowl with regularity, we're going to compare Schaub to the guys that make a lot more.

Hopefully Flacco started a trend, & we got a shot.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
I cannot recall too many, if any, times that Schaub dropped back, manipulated safeties, and landed a deep ball in stride for a TD/long gain.
Well let's define deep - do you mean over 30 or over 40? I think prior to this thread many folks would have answered over 40.

Of course having seen the stats now they would hate to admit in 2012 Peyton and Brady NEVER successfully dropped back in any fashion and passed the ball 40 yds.

Anyway, I believe Schaub's 53 yd pass over the middle was a straight drop. I can't remember if he manipulated the safeties on that play. I can recall Gruden and a couple other commentators during last season talking about how well Schaub did exactly that.

Andre Johnson....1500 yards and 4TD's. Four. That's almost impossible.
Just shy of 1600 yds. Now that is one of the great mysteries of the universe.

Not that they don't have good play design, but they aren't running plays where the whole offense makes it look like a stretch running plays and then all of a sudden receivers break into their routes.
OK this is just out in left field. None of these plays are coming off AJ hanging around the line of scrimmage faking like he is blocking and then tearing ass down field and the guy he was blocking just goes f#$k it I will inexplicably let AJ run down field, maybe he wants a jog on this rushing play. You're just making stuff up. The WR's run routes whether they are running or passing. That is what makes it deceptive.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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Anyway, I believe Schaub's 53 yd pass over the middle was a straight drop. I can't remember if he manipulated the safeties on that play. I can recall Gruden and a couple other commentators during last season talking about how well Schaub did exactly that.
I will say that he made more use of the pump fake this year than I've been accustomed from him.
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
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Well let's define deep - do you mean over 30 or over 40? I think prior to this thread many folks would have answered over 40.

Of course having seen the stats now they would hate to admit in 2012 Peyton and Brady NEVER successfully dropped back in any fashion and passed the ball 40 yds.

Anyway, I believe Schaub's 53 yd pass over the middle was a straight drop. I can't remember if he manipulated the safeties on that play. I can recall Gruden and a couple other commentators during last season talking about how well Schaub did exactly that.
You have done an excellent job on this subject.

And it pretty much aligns with my own thoughts on Schaub, that his limitations are not physical but rather mental. Obviously he's not a mobile guy, but that's never been in question. That's a given. But he can sling the ball.

And while I never say never about his mental state as it pertains to carrying this team when it needs a QB to carry it in big games, he will have to prove it to us before I believe it at this point.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
Well let's define deep - do you mean over 30 or over 40?
Personally, I would say 20 yards, when you're talking about passes and not just pass plays. 20+ plays are tracked, as are 40+ plays. The latter happens so infrequently in the NFL that the former is really a long play. No one tracks 30+ plays, as far as I know.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I've always thought that the Shanahan/Kubiak offense needed a mobile QB to be completely effective. In Schaubs early years in the offense he did much more bootlegs,rollouts and throwing on the run. Last few not so much. I think that Koobs cant run the full compliment of plays that he would like, thus handicapping what he can do with Schaub. Schaub just gets rattled. When it hits the fan, he hits the ground, balled up and sucking his thumb. His playoff performance didnt do anything to change skeptics minds about his play. Above average QB, nothing special. Andre Johnson should have 20 more TD passes during his tenure with Schaub if he didnt have to wait on balls.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
Personally, I would say 20 yards, when you're talking about passes and not just pass plays. 20+ plays are tracked, as are 40+ plays. The latter happens so infrequently in the NFL that the former is really a long play. No one tracks 30+ plays, as far as I know.
I don't think when guys are sitting around the table eating chicken wings and drinking beer they think of 20 yards as a deep ball. The stats you are talking about are on play result also so the pass may have been four yards behind the line of scrimmage and gone for 20. ESPN tracks in the air which was what I wanted to narrow down and examine and they do it separately for 31-40 and 41+.

When it hits the fan, he hits the ground, balled up and sucking his thumb.
This is just bogus. Schaub hangs and takes shots. Look no further than the back to back shots in Denver.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
The stats you are talking about are on play result also so the pass may have been four yards behind the line of scrimmage and gone for 20.
That is why I made the distinction between passes and pass plays. Perhaps I could have worded it better. Fact is, 20 yards in the air is a long pass play. It doesn't happen that often. I'd be curious to see percentage comparisons from the days before the WCO, but I'm sure no one has ever looked at that. Out of 544 pass attempts this season by Schaub, only 46 of them went for 20+ (9 more than 2011), 8 for 40+. That's a pretty small percentage, and that's even before we start really separating out the plays that you mention, where the receiver does all the work.

Like kickers, when you start talking percentages, you realize how close everyone is to each other. It's the difference in a few plays that separate the best from the good.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
Why do you keep going back to yardage results stats rather than in the air?

Damn you are really playing your stats too. "9 more than 2011" LOL. Schaub only played 10 games in 2011 (so in other words was on pace for 59 & 14.5). Try looking at the two prior seasons - 59 & 9 and 62 & 15.

It's the difference in a few plays that separate the best from the good.
Well the best were 0 of 8 and the good was 3 of 4.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
Why do you keep going back to yardage results stats rather than in the air?
Why do you keep overlooking my recognition of "in the air" stats? I have stated twice now that "in the air" 20+ is a long pass, and I have specifically distinguished that from "pass plays". I simply pointed out the overall 20+ to illustrate the fact that 20+ plays don't happen that often, and that is why I consider them long plays. So if 20+ plays don't happen that often, and 20+ in the air is an even smaller subset of that, clearly 20+ in the air is a rare play.

All of which just goes back to my point in the last post saying that I consider 20+ to be a long play. People can disagree all they want.

Damn you are really playing your stats too. "9 more than 2011" LOL. Schaub only played 10 games in 2011 (so in other words was on pace for 59 & 14.5). Try looking at the two prior seasons - 59 & 9 and 62 & 15.

Well the best were 0 of 8 and the good was 3 of 4.
I confess I don't even know what you're talking about, and frankly, I'm not that interested. I can go look at 20+ plays for other QBs if I cared enough, but that doesn't separate out the 20+ in the air plays. You claim your source does, but the very first and only play that I cared about earlier clearly breaks your source. Schaub threw an INT 35 yards in the air to Vontae Davis when your source said he had no INTs in that subset. Furthermore, every completion where the WR had to slow down from his wide open spot to let the ball and the defender get there is not factored into your source.

In the end, I don't care to parse stats. The man has an issue throwing a deep ball. Blame it on his foot, his mechanics, his arm, his head, or the offense; I don't care. I'm tired of watching the man play QB. If you disagree, that's cool. But you're not selling me on something else.
 

Texan_Bill

Hall of Fame
:gun: WOW! Just wow!!

Dan Pastorini (and I've brought this up before) who was known for a very strong arm believes Schaub can make any and every throw necessary. He (Dante) believes that Schaub's footwork needs some improvement with regards to his deep balls.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
The percentage of deep throws can vary depending on several factors.

Some teams like to go vertical more than others.
Coverage sometimes dictate the call.
Whether your team is behind by a lot or ahead by a lot, etc.


The most difficult is the deep out (besides the transcontinental pass).
These throws are supposed to be along the sideline, at depth between 35-45 yards.
As long as your QB can get the ball there on time (more often than not), you're fine.
This is why Pastorini doesn't complain about Schaub's arm.

On post routes or skinny posts, the actual distance is shorter as it's a straight downfield pass.
Sometimes, there are reasons why the QB might make the throw shorter.
If he (Schaub) can throw the deep out, it doesn't really make sense to complain about his underthrowing receivers down the middle.

One number that has some merit to look at is the Air Yard per Attempt, especially if you add all the seasons together (from 2007 until now.)

Schaub is going to be there around top 10 (with a certain minimum number of attempts, let's say 2,000). If you look it up, you will be surprised by the numbers of certain QBs that you think highly off.

One of the site that tracks it is SportingCharts.com

There's even one year when Schaub led the league in that category (if you take out the top rated guy (Todd Collins who was a backup and shouldn't qualify).

This number at least tell you who's dinking and dunking and who's not.
Specifically, you might want to compare Schaub with Brady.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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Like kickers, when you start talking percentages, you realize how close everyone is to each other. It's the difference in a few plays that separate the best from the good.
I think the stats can show us that overall he isn't as different from the better QBs as many of us would like to believe.

However, in the past we've said we have a top 10 offense, or top 13 defense using NFL.com's ranking which goes by yards. when you look at points allowed, or points scored, we were more middle of the pack than anything.

Recently we've been able to say we're a top 5 offense & a top 10 defense, in scoring as well as yards & we've also been winning a lot of football games.

So when you look at scoring, Matt's "middle-of-the-pack" just like Flacco; 22 Tds. Of course, you have to factor in that we've got Arian Foster who led the league in rushing TDs. But the Patriots led the league in rushing TDs & somehow Brady managed to throw 12 more TDs than Schaub (& Flacco).

Then again, when you think of who Brady could throw the ball to, who might score & you can come up with a list of names; Welker, Gronk, Lloyd, Woodhead, Hernandez, Stallworth, Riddley, Vareen.....

Make a list of players likely to score for Schaub; Andre, OD,
If anyone esle scored, we'd be just as surprised as the other team.

So the way I see it, Matt is Matt. I don't like the way he throws the long ball, but for whatever reasons, statistically he's on par with "the better" QBs in the league. His QB Rating puts him in the Flacco/Eli tier.

He looked just as crappy/good to me at the end of the season as he did at the beginning of the season. He looked just as crappy/good in the pro bowl as he has his entire career. I don't question that we can win with Schaub (Freak'n Flacco won the Super Bowl with Jacoby Jones), I question whether the team can. Without a major upgrade in receivers, I don't see it happening.

& I don't understand why Kubiak would load up Arian with 600 carries, then keep him out of the passing game. Forsett is a fine receiver out of the backfield, & he's an ok runner. Casey... a fine receiver. If Schaub isn't going to make Kevin Walter look like Wes Welker, why aren't we getting these other receivers involved?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
You have done an excellent job on this subject.

And it pretty much aligns with my own thoughts on Schaub, that his limitations are not physical but rather mental. Obviously he's not a mobile guy, but that's never been in question. That's a given. But he can sling the ball.

And while I never say never about his mental state as it pertains to carrying this team when it needs a QB to carry it in big games, he will have to prove it to us before I believe it at this point.
I honestly don't believe the mental aspect of Schaub is even all on him...He shares that deficiency with his head coach; actually i put it more on Kubiak than i do Schaub b/c Kubiak just refuses to do certain things. Dre only having 4 TD's with 1500 yds recieving isn't simply him and Schaub not connecting in the red zone or schaub constantly underthrowing him deep on obvious potential TD's. it's more of Kubiak not looking for him when we're close and in the red zone.

I think everyone recognizes once we're inside the 15-10 yd line kubiak's playcallying goes ultra conservative...its the chief reason Foster's TD production has been double digits since he became a starter for us in 2010. If we do pass it, it's usually something underneath to a TE.....or to Foster largely b/c kubiak doesn't want to take a chance throwing it up to AJ. Kubiak is also not very creative calling plays either...Sometimes you just gotta put things on tape so coaches are aware that it's in your arsenal...Last year, we just play-actioned teams to death..teams got really used to seeing that & killed it.
 

otisbean

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Contributor's Club
:gun: WOW! Just wow!!

Dan Pastorini (and I've brought this up before) who was known for a very strong arm believes Schaub can make any and every throw necessary. He (Dante) believes that Schaub's footwork needs some improvement with regards to his deep balls.
I agree 100% with this. He holds the ball a tad too long and it looks like he opens up too much (for lack of a better descriptive phrase) on intermediate and deep throws. Pitchers can do the same thing which can cause wildness, particularly balls coming in high. It seems like alot of Schaub's intermediate throws tend to be high
 

thunderkyss

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it's more of Kubiak not looking for him when we're close and in the red zone.

I think everyone recognizes once we're inside the 15-10 yd line kubiak's playcallying goes ultra conservative...its the chief reason Foster's TD production has been double digits since he became a starter for us in 2010. If we do pass it, it's usually something underneath to a TE.....or to Foster largely b/c kubiak doesn't want to take a chance throwing it up to AJ. Kubiak is also not very creative calling plays either...Sometimes you just gotta put things on tape so coaches are aware that it's in your arsenal...Last year, we just play-actioned teams to death..teams got really used to seeing that & killed it.
I just can't get behind this. On any given down, on any given play, there is not one guy that Schaub is supposed to get the ball to, unless it's a screen. Other than a screen, Schaub is supposed to read the defense & decide where to go with the ball. If his first option is open, that's where he goes. If not, he goes to his second, & third, & so on until he has to decide to check it down, throw it away, or take a sack.

I remember during our divisional game against the Ravens in the 2011 season play-offs, Yates was told many time to trust Aj, give him a chance. I can't imagine Schaub doesn't have that same directive. But then we jump on him for "forcing" it to Aj.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I agree 100% with this. He holds the ball a tad too long and it looks like he opens up too much (for lack of a better descriptive phrase) on intermediate and deep throws. Pitchers can do the same thing which can cause wildness, particularly balls coming in high. It seems like alot of Schaub's intermediate throws tend to be high
Before 2011, these are the exact things that I'd like for Schaub to improve on; and he did in 2011.

In 2012, especially late in the season; it might have been the reverse.
As TK pointed out, it looks to me that Schaub tends to get rid of the ball a bit too soon at times.

Somebody mentioned that it looks like he doesn't trust the protection enough.

It could be that Kubiak had worked to instill in Schaub the thought of "living for another day" a little too much; or Schaub himself carried it overboard.

I have rewatched all the games down the stretch and I must say I'm not too happy with Schaub.
 

thunderkyss

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It could be that Kubiak had worked to instill in Schaub the thought of "living for another day" a little too much; or Schaub himself carried it overboard.
Or, it could be that he's trying to "step up" his game.

He knows that he isn't particularly fleet of foot. He knows that he doesn't have the strongest arm in the league. He knows that his ball placement leaves something to be desired.

If he's going to get better...... & the only thing he is "really" good at is getting rid of the ball quickly, maybe that means get rid of it quicker to him.

Who knows?
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
Cool - within three posts Schaub holds the ball too long and gets rid of it too soon.

Just kind of funny. Reality is I am sure every QB can be accused of both on individual plays.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I just can't get behind this. On any given down, on any given play, there is not one guy that Schaub is supposed to get the ball to, unless it's a screen. Other than a screen, Schaub is supposed to read the defense & decide where to go with the ball. If his first option is open, that's where he goes. If not, he goes to his second, & third, & so on until he has to decide to check it down, throw it away, or take a sack.

I remember during our divisional game against the Ravens in the 2011 season play-offs, Yates was told many time to trust Aj, give him a chance. I can't imagine Schaub doesn't have that same directive. But then we jump on him for "forcing" it to Aj.

You think Peyton Manning is dropping back surveying the defense every single passing play without a clue of where he's going with the ball and who's getting it before he snaps it? I guess that's why he's legendary for getting the ball out on time..............and staring his WR's down too then huh? Lol the bolded is not at all accurate; 99% of good starting caliber qb's know where they're going with the ball presnap...the really great qb's and HC's know how to manipulate the defense presnap to get the play that they want to the guy they want.....neither of which are to be confused with Schaub and Kubiak...1: b/c Kubiak and his playcalling aren't aggressive and creative enough and 2: b/c Schaub is afforded very little flexibility with audibling.


Furthermore, I'm talking specifically in and around the red zone...where it's pretty tough for the safety to get all the way over the top if a fade route is thrown and 2 where you especially want to spread the ball around to all your playmakers and be more creative with your playcalling thereby giving the defense more to think about. Kubiak did none of that. 9 out of 10 times its a dive or stretch play, curl routes/dump offs up underneath to OD/Foster...and we casually yard by yard move inside the 10 where we can't get anymore 1st downs and then we kick a fg.....unless Foster breaks 1 before we get to that point. I don't think i saw a fade or deep post/ post corner route to AJ 1 time last year.

Opposing teams see your tendencies & i just think that towards the end of the season, Kubiak didn't do his offense any favors by trotting out the same gameplan week after week with little to no creativity. Then i watch teams like the patriots get inside the redzone, bring in an extra tackle, making him tackle elgible forcing the defense to either call a TO or think just enough as they run it up in the EZ for a score...Sure they didn't use the tackle elgible as a WR, but it's on tape and becomes an ace in the hole for them in tight games/playoff games.
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
Haha, from what I've seen, on deep balls, he tends to hold the ball a bit too long. I'm thinking specifically on boot legs as it seems we take most of our deep shots off those. I do think his footwork could improve, but that's easier said then done otherwise everyone's footwork would be perfect. I think at times he checks down fairly quickly.

Personally I rather have a receiver slow a bit and make a 40 yd connection vs watching balls sail over WRs heads when they're open deep
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Cool - within three posts Schaub holds the ball too long and gets rid of it too soon.

Just kind of funny. Reality is I am sure every QB can be accused of both on individual plays.
With Otisbean's observations, I think it's more of a case that there are instances that Schaub didn't get the ball out on time; and I agree.

In the latter part of the season, there were inconsistencies in his game.
On certain plays, IMO, he should have taken the time but he didn't.
And then on other plays, he could have gotten the ball out sooner but he didn't either.
His rhythm, again - to me, is out of whack.

It was rather frustrating in the reviews.
I wanted to whack him sometimes (others not helping him is another matter.)

The whole offense was out whack really; it was far from a well-oiled machine that they showed in certain other games; and that included untimely penalties and stuffs. It simply lacked cohesive; and I have to say the QB is at the forefront.

You know I'm not over-critical of Schaub, but his plays left much to desire.
I expected a little better, at least.
 

Dutchrudder

Hall of Fame
Not exactly the long ball which the thread is about, but it's interesting to see how Schaub does against blitzes.



Note that this stat does not take into account # of blockers.
 

Dread-Head

Hall of Fame
Not exactly the long ball which the thread is about, but it's interesting to see how Schaub does against blitzes.



Note that this stat does not take into account # of blockers.


:thinking: Odd...Schaub in the aforementioned stats has 1 TD but TWO INTERCEPTIONS. Interesting. Where's the GREAT JOE FLACCO on this list?

And prithe Flacco...*where art thou? Deny thy statistics...and refuse thy press clippings...

* I used "where" here instead of wherefore because "wherefore" technically is another way of saying "why".
 

Vinny

shiny happy fan
Flacco plays in a more vertical scheme. Schaub does well in our dink n dunk scheme designed to have a choice of dump passes. That is why a guy like AJ can have 1600 yards and 4 TD's.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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Not exactly the long ball which the thread is about, but it's interesting to see how Schaub does against blitzes.


Note that this stat does not take into account # of blockers.
:hankpalm:

Use your eyes man. Use your eyes. Peyton, Brady, & Flacco aren't even on that list... therefore it can not be used in any shape, form, or fashion as evidence to the value of a "good" to "great" QB.


OT: the player from Texas fan in me is aweful anxious to see what happens with that Tannehill fella
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
And also we need to compare Schaub to players about his level, not guys that earn more.

Why do we even try to compare Schaub with Brady and Ben?
You're kidding , right? When the man who owns the team and the HC think he's good enough to get us to a Super Bowl, then let's see how he compares to those who do.

If he (Schaub) can throw the deep out, it doesn't really make sense to complain about his underthrowing receivers down the middle.
Really? So, if you offense commonly gets the WR/TE free deep over the middle and your QB hangs it up there like a punt, you don't have any reason to complain? Maybe not all his fault though (see below).

I honestly don't believe the mental aspect of Schaub is even all on him...He shares that deficiency with his head coach; actually i put it more on Kubiak than i do Schaub b/c Kubiak just refuses to do certain things. Dre only having 4 TD's with 1500 yds recieving isn't simply him and Schaub not connecting in the red zone or schaub constantly underthrowing him deep on obvious potential TD's. it's more of Kubiak not looking for him when we're close and in the red zone.
I agree with this and it's been said before by Schaub that his instructions are to put it up there and let his receiver go get it. (I'm guessing the theory being that a 30 yd. completion is better than the potential miss vs. potential TD.)

I just can't get behind this. On any given down, on any given play, there is not one guy that Schaub is supposed to get the ball to, unless it's a screen. Other than a screen, Schaub is supposed to read the defense & decide where to go with the ball. If his first option is open, that's where he goes. If not, he goes to his second, & third, & so on until he has to decide to check it down, throw it away, or take a sack.

I remember during our divisional game against the Ravens in the 2011 season play-offs, Yates was told many time to trust Aj, give him a chance. I can't imagine Schaub doesn't have that same directive. But then we jump on him for "forcing" it to Aj.
True to a point, but Schaub also forces it to AJ when other guys are wide open because he likes his security blanket. All things being equal, I'd go to AJ too, but he does it in very UNequal circumstances as well.

99% of good starting caliber qb's know where they're going with the ball presnap...the really great qb's and HC's know how to manipulate the defense presnap to get the play that they want to the guy they want.
On rare instances, that's true, but 95+% of the time, neither Brady, Manning, Rodgers, et al. are reading the coverages DOWNfield and determining the best target to throw to. Reading your progressions quickly is what makes for a good NFL QB. Manning is one of the best in the business with finding the open receiver as a play drags on.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
Really? So, if you offense commonly gets the WR/TE free deep over the middle and your QB hangs it up there like a punt, you don't have any reason to complain? Maybe not all his fault though (see below).

I agree with this and it's been said before by Schaub that his instructions are to put it up there and let his receiver go get it. (I'm guessing the theory being that a 30 yd. completion is better than the potential miss vs. potential TD.)
I have to say I both understand the criticism and like the result better. Carr had a cannon for an arm but it was so frustrating watching him overthrow Bradford and AJ by 5 yards. Yeah, I would rather have the 30 yard completion than the ball bouncing on the field in front of them.

I also think people really under appreciate how difficult it is to chuck a ball into a theoretical pickle barrel which is moving under its own plan while jacking with at least one defender 40 yards down the field while one or more people who intend to hurt you are about to pound you into sand.

No doubt about it, Schaub is not a Staubach or Elway. Those cats are rare.

True to a point, but Schaub also forces it to AJ when other guys are wide open because he likes his security blanket. All things being equal, I'd go to AJ too, but he does it in very UNequal circumstances as well.
I'd "force" it to AJ too. He is the most reliable receiver. Throwing to a triple covered AJ is sometimes the safer throw than throwing to Martin who is very likely to go "oh crap a football."
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I have to say I both understand the criticism and like the result better. Carr had a cannon for an arm but it was so frustrating watching him overthrow Bradford and AJ by 5 yards. Yeah, I would rather have the 30 yard completion than the ball bouncing on the field in front of them.

I also think people really under appreciate how difficult it is to chuck a ball into a theoretical pickle barrel which is moving under its own plan while jacking with at least one defender 40 yards down the field while one or more people who intend to hurt you are about to pound you into sand.

No doubt about it, Schaub is not a Staubach or Elway. Those cats are rare.



I'd "force" it to AJ too. He is the most reliable receiver. Throwing to a triple covered AJ is sometimes the safer throw than throwing to Martin who is very likely to go "oh crap a football."
Obviously, anybody who wants to compare Schaub with those guys (including Brady and Rodgers) can do so if he pleases, but why bother?

We already know that Schaub doesn't stack up to them at the moment.

But to say criticize Schaub because of it makes little sense.
This team isn't built (financially) to rely on Schaub as heavily as those other teams relying on the elite QBs.

The extra money goes to AJ to help out Matt Schaub, Foster to help avoiding third and long, and the defense to stop the opponents to give Schaub better chance (short field/turnover, etc.)

We even spent resources on getting ST players for the same reason.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
The core of this thread is basically about Schaub's arm strength, which leads to accuracy or the lack of it.

If a guy can throw a deep out on a natural projection, he has the arm strength to throw the ball straight downfield because it is a shorter distance; simple as that.

The reason that some ball hang is not because of his lack of arm strength.
 

silvrhand

All Pro
Obviously, anybody who wants to compare Schaub with those guys (including Brady and Rodgers) can do so if he pleases, but why bother?

We already know that Schaub doesn't stack up to them at the moment.

But to say criticize Schaub because of it makes little sense.
This team isn't built (financially) to rely on Schaub as heavily as those other teams relying on the elite QBs.

The extra money goes to AJ to help out Matt Schaub, Foster to help avoiding third and long, and the defense to stop the opponents to give Schaub better chance (short field/turnover, etc.)

We even spent resources on getting ST players for the same reason.
I think the reason people do that is because if you look at who's winning the superbowls, it's those guys. We all want to win the superbowl, but winning it with Trent Dilfer is very rare..
 
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