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Post Pro-Day AWTBEER MOCK DRAFT

beerlover

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Another Collaborative Mock Draft. This time its the 2010 NFL First Round. Approached the Draft Guru himself, awtysst about the possiblity of doing a mock draft together after reading each others stuff for years & he agreed to share his time & thoughts (thank you). Hope he had as much fun as I did, thanks to him I could not have done this alone, they're some great board members & he is one of them, If you get the chance I strongly recommend working with somebody in similar fashion!

It only took about two weeks to compile all the data & ideas as they came streaming in. less than three weeks to the actual draft so there is plenty of time for change. This is a reflection of best player available drafted by a team with the biggest need for that position who fits within the context of scheme ran offensively or defensively, mixes in the clubhouse & community. some positions are weighted heavy early as they are both in demand & short supply while others are deep & can allow teams the flexability to address later.

ENJOY!


1. St. Louis Rams - Sam Bradford, QB 6'5" 236
grades don't win games in the NFL QB's do. take your franchise QB St. Louis. Gil Brandt, "put on the best quarterback workout by a draft prospect that I’ve seen since I watched a private workout Troy Aikman put on for us with the Cowboys in California".
2. Detroit Lions - Russell Okung, LT 6'5 1/4" 307
Detroit invested the #1 pick last year on Matt Stafford who got ripped apart towards end of season, here is a couple Texan fans who know all too well the consequences if you don't protect a young franchise QB. they are fortunate to have a LT on the board who grades out this high to pass on bpa Suh
3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Ndamukong Suh, DT 6'3 7/8" 307
luck shines on Raheem Morris who just so happens to need a 4-3 DT. not trying to force any picks just letting them fall to teams with appropriate positional needs
4. Washington Redskins - Trent Williams, LT 6'4 5/8" 315
Mike Shanahan address franchise LT T. Williams who is an athletic fit for OC Kyle Shanahan west coast based system. Trent is polished & competitive, versatile in pass pro & opening cut-back lanes. has no holes in his game
5. Kansas City Chiefs - Bryan Bulaga, LT 6'5 3/8" 314
admire Scott Pioli style, not afraid to face criticism to get his guy. last year with 3rd overall pick he blew mock draft boards off the map w/Tyson Jackson. now QB Matt Cassel will receive the time & protection he needs to read & go through his route tree. Bryan is a tough, competitive & skilled underclassman in the Jake Long mold
6. Seattle Seahawks - Gerald McCoy, DT 6'4 1/8 295
Pete Carroll catches a break will read "headlines". Early run of OT's (needs one too) lands the #2 rated player DT Gerald McCoy into Seattle's 4-3. both fit/need& bpa
7. Cleveland Browns - Eric Berry, DB 5'11 5/8" 211
Mike Holmgren signed his contract to become President of the Cleveland Browns on Jan. 5, 2010 on April 22nd Eric Berry will be his first round selection, historical pick to begin anew legacy
8. Oakland Raiders - Jason Pierre-Paul, DE 6"4 3/4" 270
always expect the unexpected with Al Davis come draft day. need a legit edge pass rusher, Pierre-Paul possess the raw talent/measureables the Raiders seem to covet
9. Buffalo Bills - Jimmy Clausen, QB 6'2 5/8" 222
Focus has been on transition to 3-4 defense this off-season, but does Chan Gailey go with Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Brian Brohm?
10. Jacksonville Jaguars - Derrick Morgan, DE 6'3" 266
next measureable DE off the board, with two of the top passing QB's in the NFL in division Del Rio wants to counter-attack, force to run & stack the box
11. Denver Broncos - Dan Williams, NT 6'2 3/8" 327
Thumper inside, adds youth to revamped/new 3-4. despite size has motor/endurance to adjust in the mile high altitude. plays quick with some wiggle not just overpowering, more relentless
12. Miami Dolphins - Jerry Hughes, OLB 6'1 3/4" 255
Parcells invented this position it seems, after parting ways with Joey Porter, Jerry Hughes gets the call to be the new pass rushing OLB Hybrid. really rising up teams draft boards because of his Freeney like burst coming off edge as a pass rushing 3-4 OLB
13. San Francisco 49ers - Earl Thomas, FS/CB 5'10 1/4" 208
with OLB target Jerry Hughes off the board combined with flying up draft boards himself (post UT pro-day running a 4.37) Thomas is a ballhawk with cornerback coverage ability a much welcomed addition to 49ers 3-4 Singletary defense as he roams secondary
14. Seattle Seahawks - Charles Brown, LT 6'5 3/8" 303
Has tremendous upside & nobody knows him better than his old coach Pete Carroll. Seahawks have the opportunity with two #1's to address both trenches & become a more complete, west coast/zbs team. plus for him is Alex Gibbs who likes converted TE's with exceptional athletic speed/footwork. pulled hamstring pro-day but then so did Earl
15. New York Giants - Rolando McClain, MLB 6'3 5/8" 254
fills a huge need defensively in the middle of G-Men D. immediate starter over Jonathon Goff. adds to FA aquisition Antrell Rolle, FS great commander over the middle, signal caller, intangibles
16. Tennessee Titans - Brandon Graham, DE 6'1 3/8" 268
Ascending up draft boards because can fit in a 3-4 OLB, sucks for Texans another divisional pass rusher to knock down Schaub, but hey maybe he can knock out Peyton
17. San Francisco 49ers - Mike Iupati, LG 6'5 1/8" 331
Start him at his natural position LG, then see if he develops into a RT which adds vaue to pick. one of those players who will look intimidating in any uniform the 49ers & coach Singletary will love his toughness inside trenches
18. Pittsburgh Steelers - Maurkice Pouncey, C/OG 6'4 1/8" 308
Also ascending (picked before Texans) is the second highest rated interior linman of the draft. His size/athletic upside could fill multiple positions including Center, would look Iupati if still available
19. Atlanta Falcons - Sergio Kindle, DE/LB 6' 3" 250
could be this years Brian Cushing? maybe more explosive first step in pass rush, can run the field sideline to sidline could project to SAM LB in a 4-3 as well 4-3 OLB. hand down experience can be used off edge blitz packages (added value) can track down/cover RB's & TE's too
20. Hosuton Texans - Joe Haden, CB 5'10 3/4" 193
Atlanta addressed CB w/signing Dunta in free agency, enter Joe Haden to fill his shoes. there is good depth in corner group which helps our cause. other needs in short supply like interior line bump those top tier prospects up draft boards, lucky for Texans because sitting pretty #20 they can address CB here with prospect graded near top of their board
21. Cincinnati Bengals - C.J. Spiller, RB 5'10 5/8" 196Spiller would give the Bengals a dynamic RB duo speed paired w/power RB (Benson). Excellent receiver out of backfield, home run ability, dynamic playmaker everytime he touches the football. Carson/Bengals would love this pick & could use him like Titans use Chris Johnson
22. New England Patriots - Ryan Mathews, RB 5'11 5/8" 217
Belichick can address his franchise back, complete package with great vision, balance better than expected long speed & soft under utilized hands receiving out of backfield
23. Green Bay Packers - Anthony Davis, OT 6'5" 323
adding protection for Aaron Rodgers is a priority need. once considered a surefire top-10 pick is now battling questions about his demeanor and desire. the Packers are one team that would be happy to see him there, he looked pretty strong his pro-day so don't expect him to fall any further (Dallas)
24. Philadelphia Eagles - Sean Weatherspoon, MLB 6' 3/8" 239
infusion of youth, next in line of great Eagle defensive playmakers over middle, great fit/value, general leadership skills, next level motivator extrodinare
25. Baltimore Ravens - Dez Bryant, WR 6'2" 225
phenomenal talent stretching him to Jim Harbaugh. in his first two drafts he has taken a chance with Flacco, Ray Rice & Michael Oher. Bryant fits this trend & will flourish in this offense, posse & all
26. Arizona Cardinals - Kyle Wilson, CB 5'10" 194
top edge rushers off their board look to next bpa @ need postion. Kyle's competitive character & natural playmaker instincts gives Cardindals a premium CB tandem (Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie)
27. Dallas Cowboys - Jared Odrick, DT/DE 6'5" 304
Big 10 defensive player of the year, tough & competitive fits the 3-4 DE position, upgrade over Igor Olshansky & opposite Marcus Spears
28. San Diego Chargers - Taylor Mays, SS 6'3" 230
Too much potential to keep out of the first round despite many questions. excellent fit in a 3-4 defense, can play off man, read & react using his size & speed to intimidate, seperate football from carrier
29. New York Jets - Jermaine Gresham, TE 6'5 1/4" 261
Not only gives Sanchez another go to guy underneath (excellent route runner too) but another in line blocker in protection packages, stays in his blocks like an extra tackle, allows Keller to be the more featured route runner who can slip into seams/holes. can really cause mismatches out of breaks & safety outlet for Sanchize
30. Minnesota Vikings - Devin McCourty, CB 5'10 3/4" 193
tough, physical cornerback who can lock onto & shutdown a teams #1 WR (another player I hope the Colts do not aqurie) Vikings need secondary help to support a solid run defense & pass rush
31. Indianapolis Colts - Everson Griffen, DE 6"3 3/8"
Had a great pro-day (Griffen ran a 4.59-second 40-yard dash at 268 pounds and did “everything” well, according to one scout in attendance) solid game film @ USC (17 sacks) extends Freeney (injury's) keeps pressure on Texans
32. New Orleans Saints - Brian Price, DT 6'1 1/8 303
Super Bowl Champs need to address interior defensive tackle position. Price is a good 4-3 2-gap fit along side Sedrick Ellis pretty solid value late first could go as high as #20
 
A Texans' Board with Joe Haden, Kyle Wilson, and C.j. Spiller all up there for the taking ? Is that a dream, wishful thinking, or could it actually be a realistic scenario for the evening of April 22nd ?
 
Beerlover,
I had a great time working on this draft with you as well. It was fun to bounce ideas off you and to try to come up with various scenarios. Working with another person is only as good as what they are able to bring to the table, and you brought spades.

Hope to do this again sometime with you!
 
IDEXAN said:
A Texans' Board with Joe Haden, Kyle Wilson, and C.j. Spiller all up there for the taking ? Is that a dream, wishful thinking, or could it actually be a realistic scenario for the evening of April 22nd ?
Click to expand...

It actually has a reasonable chance if the teams in the draft look at BPA. Initially we had Thomas falling to the Texans pick. When he ran that blistering 40 though, we decided that he would be targeted by SF.

This left Seattle taking LT(and USC product Charles Brown) the giants getting an awesome LB in McClain, the titans unfortunately getting Brandon Graham, the 49ers getting protection for the QB in Iupati, Steelers finally getting some Oline help in Pouncey and the Falcons trying to get some pass rushing out of Kindle.

Would Seattle want Haden, Wilson, or Spiller rather than Brown? I say no. They need an athletic OT and he is that guy. The Giants could use Spiller, but McClain is a much better value choice in a position of need. 49ers could go Spiller but protecting the QB is paramount in this league and Iupati will do that. Steelers could go with Haden but they have not been the same since Faneca left. He could slide into OG or OC and protect Big Ben. Remember, the Steelers are a passing team now, so D and running is no longer their style. Finally ATL has been trying to get a pass rusher since they picked Jamal Anderson. They have DR so they won't go CB. Spiller is an option, but pass rusher is a need.

So, that gets us to the Texans with Spiller, Matthews, Wilson, and Haden. In our opinion, Haden is just too good to not take. In a real life situation, I would think hard about trading down, but in this non trade down scenario Haden represents the best value and thus is our selection.
 
awtysst said:
Beerlover,
I had a great time working on this draft with you as well. It was fun to bounce ideas off you and to try to come up with various scenarios. Working with another person is only as good as what they are able to bring to the table, and you brought spades.

Hope to do this again sometime with you!
Click to expand...
I am very glad you two did not decide to go with "AWTYSSTLover." You had the same experience that I had working with Beerlover. He is the real deal.
 
awtysst said:
It actually has a reasonable chance if the teams in the draft look at BPA. Initially we had Thomas falling to the Texans pick. When he ran that blistering 40 though, we decided that he would be targeted by SF.

This left Seattle taking LT(and USC product Charles Brown) the giants getting an awesome LB in McClain, the titans unfortunately getting Brandon Graham, the 49ers getting protection for the QB in Iupati, Steelers finally getting some Oline help in Pouncey and the Falcons trying to get some pass rushing out of Kindle.

Would Seattle want Haden, Wilson, or Spiller rather than Brown? I say no. They need an athletic OT and he is that guy. The Giants could use Spiller, but McClain is a much better value choice in a position of need. 49ers could go Spiller but protecting the QB is paramount in this league and Iupati will do that. Steelers could go with Haden but they have not been the same since Faneca left. He could slide into OG or OC and protect Big Ben. Remember, the Steelers are a passing team now, so D and running is no longer their style. Finally ATL has been trying to get a pass rusher since they picked Jamal Anderson. They have DR so they won't go CB. Spiller is an option, but pass rusher is a need.

So, that gets us to the Texans with Spiller, Matthews, Wilson, and Haden. In our opinion, Haden is just too good to not take. In a real life situation, I would think hard about trading down, but in this non trade down scenario Haden represents the best value and thus is our selection.
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The only hesitancy I have is Pouncy going this high but in my thread asking for dark horses to go before #20, a poster listed Pouncy so I guess that could happen. Over all, great work and compliments to both as I do know the effort and research required.

2nd, I know you disregarded trades which was smart. However, this mock to me increases the chance of San Diego wanting to move up for Mathews as N.E. sitting there at #22. Texans could hold S.D. feet to the fire and maybe come away with an excellent trade. Our trade in 2008 comes to mind when we switched 1sts, got a 3rd (Slaton) and a 6th (Barber). That was Flacco a QB but a power back with speed and great stats could get a similar deal as I believe Chargers really want Mathews. A swap of first rounds, a swap of second rounds and getting their 3rd (as someone posted on another thread) & shipping our extra 6th (TJ) to them looks reasonable. Getting Mathews a Fresno College guy and keeping him in California would work for team and player. I think that would keep the Chargers a focus of that college's fan based which could be substantial.

Would NE want Mathews enough to enter into a bidding war? Would they swap firsts and give us two 2nds?
 
badboy said:
The only hesitancy I have is Pouncy going this high but in my thread asking for dark horses to go before #20, a poster listed Pouncy so I guess that could happen. Over all, great work and compliments to both as I do know the effort and research required.

2nd, I know you disregarded trades which was smart. However, this mock to me increases the chance of San Diego wanting to move up for Mathews as N.E. sitting there at #22. Texans could hold S.D. feet to the fire and maybe come away with an excellent trade. Our trade in 2008 comes to mind when we switched 1sts, got a 3rd (Slaton) and a 6th (Barber). That was Flacco a QB but a power back with speed and great stats could get a similar deal as I believe Chargers really want Mathews. A swap of first rounds, a swap of second rounds and getting their 3rd (as someone posted on another thread) & shipping our extra 6th (TJ) to them looks reasonable. Getting Mathews a Fresno College guy and keeping him in California would work for team and player. I think that would keep the Chargers a focus of that college's fan based which could be substantial.

Would NE want Mathews enough to enter into a bidding war? Would they swap firsts and give us two 2nds?
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I don't think there is anyway NE would give up that much. Not their style.
 
JB said:
I don't think there is anyway NE would give up that much. Not their style.
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I definitely agree but Mathews could be a franchise back for them and they have three seconds, allowing them to plug holes with the remaining second and a third. I'd rate it as a doubtful but maybe. Anyway, the threat could hook San Diego.
 
badboy said:
I definitely agree but Mathews could be a franchise back for them and they have three seconds, allowing them to plug holes with the remaining second and a third. I'd rate it as a doubtful but maybe. Anyway, the threat could hook San Diego.
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there will be trades, thats a given but this is our attempt to give this board the best pure mock draft possible.

Belichick is the master of trading down & aquiring more picks, hence San Diego can wait & trade with them for Mathews at a slighlty lower cost. the only thing standing between Texans & Patriots is Cincinnati who would target Spiller over Mathews to compliment Benson. this is the reason I've cooled on getting anything from San Diego besides a late 6th rd. pick :shades:
 
badboy said:
The only hesitancy I have is Pouncy going this high but in my thread asking for dark horses to go before #20, a poster listed Pouncy so I guess that could happen. Over all, great work and compliments to both as I do know the effort and research required.

2nd, I know you disregarded trades which was smart. However, this mock to me increases the chance of San Diego wanting to move up for Mathews as N.E. sitting there at #22. Texans could hold S.D. feet to the fire and maybe come away with an excellent trade. Our trade in 2008 comes to mind when we switched 1sts, got a 3rd (Slaton) and a 6th (Barber). That was Flacco a QB but a power back with speed and great stats could get a similar deal as I believe Chargers really want Mathews. A swap of first rounds, a swap of second rounds and getting their 3rd (as someone posted on another thread) & shipping our extra 6th (TJ) to them looks reasonable. Getting Mathews a Fresno College guy and keeping him in California would work for team and player. I think that would keep the Chargers a focus of that college's fan based which could be substantial.

Would NE want Mathews enough to enter into a bidding war? Would they swap firsts and give us two 2nds?
Click to expand...

Maurkice Pouncey is as fluid on our draft board as he is on the playing field. When we looked at him he could fit on any team. talk about a commodity, this is what adds value to his grade, "the intelligent choice". He is a player who is projected by some real scouts to be gone by #20. I would not have a big problem if he wound up solidifying the interior OL in Houston :)
 
Good work guys, it is interesting to see people meld their boards together.

I would absolutely love to have the choice of Haden, Spiller, Mathews and Wilson, and Haden is the right guy to take at that spot.

Just a couple of things where I disagree with you guys:

I dont think the Raiders draft Pierre-Paul. They just traded for Wimbley, who is basically the same player with a little more football experience.

I also dont see Hughes being the first rush linebacker drafted. It is certainly possible, I think this is just a case of different people preferring different prospects. I also feel that Sergio Kindle is too high there.

All that said, it is a great mock. I know how much work it is just to do 8 picks, it must have taken a monumental effort to do this.
 
beerlover said:
there will be trades, thats a given but this is our attempt to give this board the best pure mock draft possible.

Belichick is the master of trading down & aquiring more picks, hence San Diego can wait & trade with them for Mathews at a slighlty lower cost. the only thing standing between Texans & Patriots is Cincinnati who would target Spiller over Mathews to compliment Benson. this is the reason I've cooled on getting anything from San Diego besides a late 6th rd. pick :shades:
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I find myself disagreeing with you a lot today, chuckle. I believe if Belichick gets his hands on Mathews, he isn't going anywhere. Next, not sure Spiller over Mathews is a done deal. You know Mathews speed and size.

Here is what I'd do, actually draft Mathews and as we negotiate with both teams, Bengals take Spiller as you suggest above. Either N.E. or SD wants Mathews, make the price right.
 
rmartin65 said:
Good work guys, it is interesting to see people meld their boards together.

I would absolutely love to have the choice of Haden, Spiller, Mathews and Wilson, and Haden is the right guy to take at that spot.

Just a couple of things where I disagree with you guys:

I dont think the Raiders draft Pierre-Paul. They just traded for Wimbley, who is basically the same player with a little more football experience.

I also dont see Hughes being the first rush linebacker drafted. It is certainly possible, I think this is just a case of different people preferring different prospects. I also feel that Sergio Kindle is too high there.

All that said, it is a great mock. I know how much work it is just to do 8 picks, it must have taken a monumental effort to do this.
Click to expand...

you want to dissemintate Al Davis draft strategy go ahead your a better man than me. Jason Pierre-Paul is the wildcard prospect of this draft in our view, hence he should go to the wildcard Raiders organization who just so happens, need a pass rushing DE. His measureables are at the top of his position, the potential is there everything screams Raiders.

Kindle is a very intriguing prospect. the range of opinion varies from 12-28 so we agreed somewhere in the middle would be fair value. we cannot say for sure how the Falcon draft board stacks up but I do respect Tom Dimitroff & Mike Smith they make a dynamic team (similar to Rick Smith & Gary Kubiak) so I trust their ability to make this choice. Believe me we tried plugging Sergio into various rosters in mutliple positions/schemes because of his versatility so he landed up in Atlanta based on our projection he can be a SAM LB similar to Brian Cushing in Atlanta's 4-3. very similar in all areas, expect for two things, he is quicker & more explosive, while Brian has better plus core strength.
 
badboy said:
I find myself disagreeing with you a lot today, chuckle. I believe if Belichick gets his hands on Mathews, he isn't going anywhere. Next, not sure Spiller over Mathews is a done deal. You know Mathews speed and size.

Here is what I'd do, actually draft Mathews and as we negotiate with both teams, Bengals take Spiller as you suggest above. Either N.E. or SD wants Mathews, make the price right.
Click to expand...

strategy for failure :rake:
 
beerlover said:
there will be trades, thats a given but this is our attempt to give this board the best pure mock draft possible.

Belichick is the master of trading down & aquiring more picks, hence San Diego can wait & trade with them for Mathews at a slighlty lower cost. the only thing standing between Texans & Patriots is Cincinnati who would target Spiller over Mathews to compliment Benson. this is the reason I've cooled on getting anything from San Diego besides a late 6th rd. pick :shades:
Click to expand...

Agreed. NE does not like trading up and giving up picks. They like to trade down or trade for a first rounder next year. The more I think about it, SD would need to jump ahead of NE to get Mathews. I don't think they have to worry about Cincy looking at Matthews though.

Cincy would be an interesting place for Matthews but, they already have Benson and LJ, so would they want another similarly sized back? Probably not. Spiller provides a nice compliment to the bigger powerful runners they have. So, I don't see Cincy making a play for SD.

Thing is, if Cincy really wants Spiller can they afford to trade down? Not sure. So, SD may be forced to trade with Htown to get Matthews.
 
badboy said:
I find myself disagreeing with you a lot today, chuckle. I believe if Belichick gets his hands on Mathews, he isn't going anywhere. Next, not sure Spiller over Mathews is a done deal. You know Mathews speed and size.

Here is what I'd do, actually draft Mathews and as we negotiate with both teams, Bengals take Spiller as you suggest above. Either N.E. or SD wants Mathews, make the price right.
Click to expand...

Unless you want to actually keep Matthews, thats a bad strategy. It is always best to draft the guy you want or make a trade down. If you try to draft a guy in order to trade him to another team it blows up in your face. Then you have a player you really did not want and are forced to pay him big $ and then play him to justify the pick.

Just take the guy you want or make the trade. THATS the best strategy.
 
awtysst said:
Agreed. NE does not like trading up and giving up picks. They like to trade down or trade for a first rounder next year. The more I think about it, SD would need to jump ahead of NE to get Mathews. I don't think they have to worry about Cincy looking at Matthews though.

Cincy would be an interesting place for Matthews but, they already have Benson and LJ, so would they want another similarly sized back? Probably not. Spiller provides a nice compliment to the bigger powerful runners they have. So, I don't see Cincy making a play for SD.

Thing is, if Cincy really wants Spiller can they afford to trade down? Not sure. So, SD may be forced to trade with Htown to get Matthews.
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LJ signed with the 'Skins. But they do have Benson & Scott & Brian Leonard. I do not think they will look at a first round RB. They really need a TE and FS. I think they will draft either Gresham or Mays in the first.
 
JB said:
LJ signed with the 'Skins. But they do have Benson & Scott & Brian Leonard. I do not think they will look at a first round RB. They really need a TE and FS. I think they will draft either Gresham or Mays in the first.
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intersting, some may remember I had Scott on my radar last years draft for the Texans in 6th/7th. but his durability is a major concern while Leonard is a fullback.

We also felt that Spiller represented BPA #21
 
beerlover said:
intersting, some may remember I had Scott on my radar last years draft for the Texans in 6th/7th. but his durability is a major concern while Leonard is a fullback.

We also felt that Spiller represented BPA #21
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That is probably true, but I don't know if Cinci would have the same grades. Are they going to go BPA or need?
 
beerlover said:
I guess they could wait until the season like the Texans did last year to find that out :cool:
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??? Didn't the Texans last year have the availabilty of taking BPA that also fit the top need?

Who did you have rated higher than Cushing that was still available?
 
i think the Spliller to Cincy pick makes sense. The offense is anemic, and Spiller can do so much. He can run, h can catch out of the backfield or lined up wide, and he can return kicks. If he is there, I see the Bungles taking him.
 
rmartin65 said:
i think the Spliller to Cincy pick makes sense. The offense is anemic, and Spiller can do so much. He can run, h can catch out of the backfield or lined up wide, and he can return kicks. If he is there, I see the Bungles taking him.
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Yup, that was our thinking too. Spiller represents an additional weapon for Palmer to utilize. The Bengals can line up Benson as HB and put Spiller in the slot and create matchup problems. This is a good spot for him and it represents good value.
 
JB said:
??? Didn't the Texans last year have the availabilty of taking BPA that also fit the top need?

Who did you have rated higher than Cushing that was still available?
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I think BL is referring to the 4th round last year when we took TE Antony Hill rather than a RB like Andre Brown or Gartrell Johnson.
Or that we took Safety Troy Nolan in the 7th rather than Rashad Jennings.
 
awtysst said:
I think BL is referring to the 4th round last year when we took TE Antony Hill rather than a RB like Andre Brown or Gartrell Johnson.
Or that we took Safety Troy Nolan in the 7th rather than Rashad Jennings.
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Ok I can understand that. But in the first round do you think Cinci will really take BPA over need?

Because I think they can pick up a RB later, but they really need a TE and S bad and the first round may be the only place they can be sure to get one of the top.
 
JB said:
Ok I can understand that. But in the first round do you think Cinci will really take BPA over need?

Because I think they can pick up a RB later, but they really need a TE and S bad and the first round may be the only place they can be sure to get one of the top.
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Is Gresham that good of a TE he'd go mid first round? Especially coming off a serious injury.

Safeties also are considered to have low positional value.

Spiller I think is the kind of elite talent that you throw out the value ratings on and just take based on him being a game changer.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
Is Gresham that good of a TE he'd go mid first round? Especially coming off a serious injury.

Safeties also are considered to have low positional value.

Spiller I think is the kind of elite talent that you throw out the value ratings on and just take based on him being a game changer.
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Yeah, Gresham is expected to go mid first. And Gronkowski and Hernandez may be gone before their 2nd.

If one of the top 3 safties fell to 21, I think Cinci would be all over it. I think they are really hoping for Mays to be there. They have an affinity for USC guys.
 
JB said:
Ok I can understand that. But in the first round do you think Cinci will really take BPA over need?

Because I think they can pick up a RB later, but they really need a TE and S bad and the first round may be the only place they can be sure to get one of the top.
Click to expand...

Sure Cincy needs a TE and a FS, but there is only one player in this draft like Spiller. He is a unique talent that has eerie similarities to Chris Johnson. If you pass on Spiller here you will not find anyone else like him in this draft. At this point he was BPA, and Cincy took him.

TE and S can be addressed later in the draft. Berry and Thomas will be off the board so you are right that Mays would be available. The problem though is that Mays projects to a SS not a FS and what the Bengals really need is FS. We thought Mays would get exposed way too much in a 4-3 but his flaws would be covered substantially by having that extra MLB playing in front of him. Gresham would be a solid choice, but they could get Gronkowski with their second.
 
JB said:
??? Didn't the Texans last year have the availabilty of taking BPA that also fit the top need?
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actually both teams courted Cedric Benson, who turned out to be a huge hit for them, like Pollard was for the Texans. the surprising thing was once Rick Smith & the Texans failed to address RB in free agency, they also failed to draft one.

I wanted Shonn Greene in the 2nd & was mad as hell they passed on him for Connor Barwin. Shonn would have had a major impact for the Texans more so than Barwin (who is developing nicely). The difference we're having is you see Cincinnati back-field as set while I see this as an opportunity to add a prime time playmaker who would fit their open offense, offer depth & development opportunites for the RB corps plus shifting workload off Benson to keep him fresh. Before being picked up Benson was always banged up rushing for 747, 674, 647 & 272 prior four years, not excatly overwhelming. Inactive for Games 10-11 due to a hip flexor strain that sidelined him in first half Nov. 15 at Pittsburgh … Also inactive for Game 16, Jan. 3 at New York Jets (rested for the playoffs) whom they faced & lost to 24-14. The rest served him well as he carried the rushing attack (none of the other backs could produce) for 169 yards, one TD on 21 carries (Shonn Greene had the same number of carries & TD's for 135 yards). When Scott got his chance due to Cedric hip flexor strain weeks 10-11-12 he was very productive in that offense but could not sustain it because of a foot injury (durability concerns). Brian Leonard had a whopping 84 total rushing yards for 2009. mostly used in pass pro & receiver out of the backfield 30 receptions for 217 yds. So I do see this as a serious need & Spiller would be a perfect fit not just for a Carson Palmer offense but for upgrading the overall quality of the position.

JB said:
Who did you have rated higher than Cushing that was still available?
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I would assume that Cushing was bpa on their board. turns out he should of been bpa on teams picking before the Texans too. I had Matthews rated equally with his connections the choice by a nose.
 
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I have no problem with ya'll putting Spiller there in your mock. I just don't believe that in the real draft they would take him there.

But I also don't believe he would be available there....
 
Any
cincinnati-bengals-logo-150x150.gif
fans here, feel free to chip in, if C.J. Spiller
clemson%20logo.gif
was available #21 would you pass on him?
 
 
JB said:
A few thoughts on Spiller from bengals fans here:
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckForum&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a0df39f8e-f841-49a1-82f0-1cbe940ab53fForum%3a0e5c9cb2-e292-4dc0-912f-d478c71af3beDiscussion%3af83e916a-21be-4b60-ac24-89d6ded7295c&plckFindPostKey=Cat:0df39f8e-f841-49a1-82f0-1cbe940ab53fForum:0e5c9cb2-e292-4dc0-912f-d478c71af3beDiscussion:f83e916a-21be-4b60-ac24-89d6ded7295cPost:1c1976bb-33f3-445b-9ecb-4eec386089ed
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I'm still hoping for a more direct connect from this board but that might very well represent the fan bases feeling, thanks for looking that up. interesting they also see him available @ #21, yes it has to be tempting, not to take bpa & draft for need is a draft constant.
 
I would like to point out that the Donovan McNabb trade to DC makes our selection of OT Trent Williams look even more brilliant than it already was!

Go Beerlover and awtysst!
 
Rusty Smith QB Florida Atlantic
DraftNasty.com Description
Florida Atlantic Head Coach Howard Schnellenberger compares Smith to his former pupil Bernie Kosar (Miami, FL. '83). The 6'5" whiz kid led the 'Canes to the national championship as a freshman. Kosar ended his pro career with a 124 TD/87 Int ratio. He led the Cleveland Browns to the AFC Championship game three times. He later won a Super Bowl as an effective backup for Troy Aikman in Dallas. In Kosar's second year in the league, he threw for nearly 4,000 yards and had a 17 TD/10 Int ratio. If Smith comes close to equaling those totals, it will surprise more than a few. We feel the comparison between the two is fair, but believe Smith has a stronger arm at the same stage of development. We're not sure he can dissect a defense with the same ease as Bernie. It is real easy to forget that Kosar graduated as a 3rd year sophomore.
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still looking like solid value to me :)
 
rmartin65 said:
Another good article on him:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/fau-owls/sfl-flspfausmith22sbaug22,0,2398767.story
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oops wrong mock :rake: was thinking our second Texans Mock Draft 2.0

Round 7: Florida Atlantic QB Rusty Smith, 6’5” 224 lbs

With the departure of Grossman, we decided that another QB was in the cards for the Texans. We wanted a player with the physical talent that just needed to be groomed by a QB guru (Kubiak). Rusty Smith is that guy. He has prototypical height, and has the frame to add another 10-15 pounds. Smith is a very intelligent player, something we all know Kubiak requires from his Qbs. The big problem with Smith (besides the shoulder injury that ended his senior season, dropping him from a 4th/5th round prospect to a 7th/UDFA) is his throwing motion. It is not pretty. Smith’s motion needs to be shortened considerably, and his release point needs to be higher. Despite that, Smith is a very accurate passer, both sitting in the pocket and on the move. He has adequate arm strength, not cannon, but good enough to make all the required throws. And maybe with some mechanics work, he could gain a bit of strength. Rusty Smith is an ideal QB for Kubiak to groom for the future.

*We had a very heavy debate deciding between Mathews and Thomas, and concluded that both would be good picks, but Thomas would be better value. We have a write-up of Mathews because of the very real possibility that the Texans draft him. Obviously, this would change the rest of the picks in the draft.
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http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70584
 
Here is comparable mock picks (highlighted bold) as selected by board members here http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70845

which one is better more realistic & why/discuss?
beerlover said:
1. St. Louis Rams - Sam Bradford, QB 6'5" 236
grades don't win games in the NFL QB's do. take your franchise QB St. Louis. Gil Brandt, "put on the best quarterback workout by a draft prospect that I’ve seen since I watched a private workout Troy Aikman put on for us with the Cowboys in California".
Sam Bradford
2. Detroit Lions - Russell Okung, LT 6'5 1/4" 307
Detroit invested the #1 pick last year on Matt Stafford who got ripped apart towards end of season, here is a couple Texan fans who know all too well the consequences if you don't protect a young franchise QB. they are fortunate to have a LT on the board who grades out this high to pass on bpa Suh
Nadamukong Suh
3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Ndamukong Suh, DT 6'3 7/8" 307
luck shines on Raheem Morris who just so happens to need a 4-3 DT. not trying to force any picks just letting them fall to teams with appropriate positional needs
Gerald McCoy
4. Washington Redskins - Trent Williams, LT 6'4 5/8" 315
Mike Shanahan address franchise LT T. Williams who is an athletic fit for OC Kyle Shanahan west coast based system. Trent is polished & competitive, versatile in pass pro & opening cut-back lanes. has no holes in his game
Russell Okung
5. Kansas City Chiefs - Bryan Bulaga, LT 6'5 3/8" 314
admire Scott Pioli style, not afraid to face criticism to get his guy. last year with 3rd overall pick he blew mock draft boards off the map w/Tyson Jackson. now QB Matt Cassel will receive the time & protection he needs to read & go through his route tree. Bryan is a tough, competitive & skilled underclassman in the Jake Long mold
Eric Berry
6. Seattle Seahawks - Gerald McCoy, DT 6'4 1/8 295
Pete Carroll catches a break will read "headlines". Early run of OT's (needs one too) lands the #2 rated player DT Gerald McCoy into Seattle's 4-3. both fit/need& bpa
Trent Williams
7. Cleveland Browns - Eric Berry, DB 5'11 5/8" 211
Mike Holmgren signed his contract to become President of the Cleveland Browns on Jan. 5, 2010 on April 22nd Eric Berry will be his first round selection, historical pick to begin anew legacy
Joe Haden
8. Oakland Raiders - Jason Pierre-Paul, DE 6"4 3/4" 270
always expect the unexpected with Al Davis come draft day. need a legit edge pass rusher, Pierre-Paul possess the raw talent/measureables the Raiders seem to covet
Bryan Bulaga
9. Buffalo Bills - Jimmy Clausen, QB 6'2 5/8" 222
Focus has been on transition to 3-4 defense this off-season, but does Chan Gailey go with Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Brian Brohm?
Dan Williams
10. Jacksonville Jaguars - Derrick Morgan, DE 6'3" 266
next measureable DE off the board, with two of the top passing QB's in the NFL in division Del Rio wants to counter-attack, force to run & stack the box
Jimmy Clausen
11. Denver Broncos - Dan Williams, NT 6'2 3/8" 327
Thumper inside, adds youth to revamped/new 3-4. despite size has motor/endurance to adjust in the mile high altitude. plays quick with some wiggle not just overpowering, more relentless
Rolando McClain
12. Miami Dolphins - Jerry Hughes, OLB 6'1 3/4" 255
Parcells invented this position it seems, after parting ways with Joey Porter, Jerry Hughes gets the call to be the new pass rushing OLB Hybrid. really rising up teams draft boards because of his Freeney like burst coming off edge as a pass rushing 3-4 OLB
Jason Pierre-Paul
13. San Francisco 49ers - Earl Thomas, FS/CB 5'10 1/4" 208
with OLB target Jerry Hughes off the board combined with flying up draft boards himself (post UT pro-day running a 4.37) Thomas is a ballhawk with cornerback coverage ability a much welcomed addition to 49ers 3-4 Singletary defense as he roams secondary
C.J. Spiller
14. Seattle Seahawks - Charles Brown, LT 6'5 3/8" 303
Has tremendous upside & nobody knows him better than his old coach Pete Carroll. Seahawks have the opportunity with two #1's to address both trenches & become a more complete, west coast/zbs team. plus for him is Alex Gibbs who likes converted TE's with exceptional athletic speed/footwork. pulled hamstring pro-day but then so did Earl
Earl Thomas
15. New York Giants - Rolando McClain, MLB 6'3 5/8" 254
fills a huge need defensively in the middle of G-Men D. immediate starter over Jonathon Goff. adds to FA aquisition Antrell Rolle, FS great commander over the middle, signal caller, intangibles
Anthony Davis
16. Tennessee Titans - Brandon Graham, DE 6'1 3/8" 268
Ascending up draft boards because can fit in a 3-4 OLB, sucks for Texans another divisional pass rusher to knock down Schaub, but hey maybe he can knock out Peyton
Everson Griffith
17. San Francisco 49ers - Mike Iupati, LG 6'5 1/8" 331
Start him at his natural position LG, then see if he develops into a RT which adds vaue to pick. one of those players who will look intimidating in any uniform the 49ers & coach Singletary will love his toughness inside trenches
Kyle Wilson
18. Pittsburgh Steelers - Maurkice Pouncey, C/OG 6'4 1/8" 308
Also ascending (picked before Texans) is the second highest rated interior linman of the draft. His size/athletic upside could fill multiple positions including Center, would look Iupati if still available
Mike Iupati
19. Atlanta Falcons - Sergio Kindle, DE/LB 6' 3" 250
could be this years Brian Cushing? maybe more explosive first step in pass rush, can run the field sideline to sidline could project to SAM LB in a 4-3 as well 4-3 OLB. hand down experience can be used off edge blitz packages (added value) can track down/cover RB's & TE's too
Derrick Morgan
20. Hosuton Texans - Joe Haden, CB 5'10 3/4" 193
Atlanta addressed CB w/signing Dunta in free agency, enter Joe Haden to fill his shoes. there is good depth in corner group which helps our cause. other needs in short supply like interior line bump those top tier prospects up draft boards, lucky for Texans because sitting pretty #20 they can address CB here with prospect graded near top of their board
Ryan Mathews
21. Cincinnati Bengals - C.J. Spiller, RB 5'10 5/8" 196Spiller would give the Bengals a dynamic RB duo speed paired w/power RB (Benson). Excellent receiver out of backfield, home run ability, dynamic playmaker everytime he touches the football. Carson/Bengals would love this pick & could use him like Titans use Chris Johnson
Sergio Kindle
22. New England Patriots - Ryan Mathews, RB 5'11 5/8" 217
Belichick can address his franchise back, complete package with great vision, balance better than expected long speed & soft under utilized hands receiving out of backfield
Dez Bryant
23. Green Bay Packers - Anthony Davis, OT 6'5" 323
adding protection for Aaron Rodgers is a priority need. once considered a surefire top-10 pick is now battling questions about his demeanor and desire. the Packers are one team that would be happy to see him there, he looked pretty strong his pro-day so don't expect him to fall any further (Dallas)
Taylor Mays
24. Philadelphia Eagles - Sean Weatherspoon, MLB 6' 3/8" 239
infusion of youth, next in line of great Eagle defensive playmakers over middle, great fit/value, general leadership skills, next level motivator extrodinare
Sean Weatherspoon
25. Baltimore Ravens - Dez Bryant, WR 6'2" 225
phenomenal talent stretching him to Jim Harbaugh. in his first two drafts he has taken a chance with Flacco, Ray Rice & Michael Oher. Bryant fits this trend & will flourish in this offense, posse & all
Jared Odrick
26. Arizona Cardinals - Kyle Wilson, CB 5'10" 194
top edge rushers off their board look to next bpa @ need postion. Kyle's competitive character & natural playmaker instincts gives Cardindals a premium CB tandem (Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie)
Golden Tate
27. Dallas Cowboys - Jared Odrick, DT/DE 6'5" 304
Big 10 defensive player of the year, tough & competitive fits the 3-4 DE position, upgrade over Igor Olshansky & opposite Marcus Spears
Bruce Campbell
28. San Diego Chargers - Taylor Mays, SS 6'3" 230
Too much potential to keep out of the first round despite many questions. excellent fit in a 3-4 defense, can play off man, read & react using his size & speed to intimidate, seperate football from carrier
Terrence Cody
29. New York Jets - Jermaine Gresham, TE 6'5 1/4" 261
Not only gives Sanchez another go to guy underneath (excellent route runner too) but another in line blocker in protection packages, stays in his blocks like an extra tackle, allows Keller to be the more featured route runner who can slip into seams/holes. can really cause mismatches out of breaks & safety outlet for Sanchize
Arrelious Benn
30. Minnesota Vikings - Devin McCourty, CB 5'10 3/4" 193
tough, physical cornerback who can lock onto & shutdown a teams #1 WR (another player I hope the Colts do not aqurie) Vikings need secondary help to support a solid run defense & pass rush
Devin McCourty
31. Indianapolis Colts - Everson Griffen, DE 6"3 3/8"
Had a great pro-day (Griffen ran a 4.59-second 40-yard dash at 268 pounds and did “everything” well, according to one scout in attendance) solid game film @ USC (17 sacks) extends Freeney (injury's) keeps pressure on Texans
Charles Brown
32. New Orleans Saints - Brian Price, DT 6'1 1/8 303
Super Bowl Champs need to address interior defensive tackle position. Price is a good 4-3 2-gap fit along side Sedrick Ellis pretty solid value late first could go as high as #20
Brandon Graham
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JB said:
That is probably true, but I don't know if Cinci would have the same grades. Are they going to go BPA or need?
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Did I miss Spiller selling crack in the dorm hallway? It's almost commical how they draft thugs year in ad year out.
 
Yeah well watching a couple of dogs chase their tails in the front yard is amusing for a while, but after a while it gets old. So big fella I want you to astute me and post to the board You are drafting Leodis McKelvin or Darrelle Revis clone with this pick ? You won't because you know as well as I know it too, this is not a good group of corners. The difference in margin between the guy you are forcing at twenty and the guy at eighty one is very small. You are in fact forcing a sub NFL talent into the twenty because you are panicking over "need" . Dismiss me? Dismiss you. They have never panicked in four drafts and they are not going to start now. Not one of these top five guys can start for us the first eight weeks. In other words you just mocked us 8-8 once again.
 
no panic here :panic: its a win win situation for the Texans, that is unless your hoping for Pouncey/Iupati to fall :pissed:
 
threetoedpete said:
Yeah well watching a couple of dogs chase their tails in the front yard is amusing for a while, but after a while it gets old. So big fella I want you to astute me and post to the board You are drafting Leodis McKelvin or Darrelle Revis clone with this pick ? You won't because you know as well as I know it too, this is not a good group of corners. The difference in margin between the guy you are forcing at twenty and the guy at eighty one is very small. You are in fact forcing a sub NFL talent into the twenty because you are panicking over "need" . Dismiss me? Dismiss you. They have never panicked in four drafts and they are not going to start now. Not one of these top five guys can start for us the first eight weeks. In other words you just mocked us 8-8 once again.
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You are saying that Haden and Kyle Wilson are not significantly better than 3rd round CBs? I'm a big Ansah fan and have it in 3rd on my mock but would not say he is equal to these top two or even McCourty a probable late 1st to early 2nd guy. Even Thomas may be drafted high first by a team that will use him at corner.
Pete my man, I can't think of a radio, tv or magazine guy that will agree with you on this one.
 
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