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Orlando Pace a Texan? | Day 1 Unfolds
- Thread starter bckey
- Start date
Panther5407
Rookie
TommyS said:just wondering why there isnt any mention of
1) pace visit
2) foreman release
3) brown release
on the official website, cbs or espn (pace visit excluded). is it some huge secret that only diehard message board fans are allowed to know about
Or Rocky Benards visit if I can add something to your list.
texansfan88
Rookie
Did anyone say Corey DIllon was a team player in Cincinnati? maybe Pace just wants a new change in his lifestyle...TommyS said:
texanfan2002114
Veteran
texansfan88 said:
I totally agree with you!!! i don't think Casserly or McNair would bring in a locker room headache.
fair enough, but dillion had the incentive of being on a championship caliber team - can you imagine if he'd gone to sanfrancisco and lost 14 games, i'm betting the guy would've been complaining pretty loud. we are not, yet, a championship caliber team. and pace wont make us one. he'll make us better, but at what cost?
Team-Sport
Practice Squad
I read the article this morning. Why is there pressure on the Rams? If the Rams don't work out a deal by Wednesday with Pace, his Cap Number of $8.4M will immediately count against us. So, we then keep one of the best OTs in the Game. We can work around it, trust me.texanfan2002114 said:
This trip to Houston was orchestrated by Pace, His Agents, and the Texans. We will see how bad they want him. Rams Sources are saying NO Trade, 2 #1s as Compensation.
Ranger
Waterboy
Never once I have doubted Charley Casserly and the front office in what they were trying to accomplish here. Now I do.
I would love to see a player with the caliber of Orlando Pace playing LT, actually just playing for the Texans. If we brought him in here, he would arguably be the best player on the rooster. What I am worried about is what the future would hold.
We have Seth Wand. In two years here and one starting, he has shown promise. Yes he didn't look great, and yes there is questions if he is the guy. But he shows promise and why would you bump a guy down on the depth charts for good if he is still developing and can become a solid starter?
Orlando Pace will come at no prutty price, in more ways than one. He will want a contract probably around $7.5 mil a year if not more. Now if I remember right we just gave Greenwood a contract worth what $22.5 over 4 years? We really don't have that much money to spend, and with this big contract that Pace would cost us, I don't see us making any moves in FA for the next few years without resturcting contracts and what not. Do we really want to go down that road?
I think you guys are getting this wrong--the Texans plan is to have him sign with the Rams first, and then be traded to the Texans. The Texans will sign no offer sheet. It would be foolish to trade away two first round draft picks. But the Rams are making it clear they want at least ONE first rounder, and we seem to be excepting that. What else they want I don't know, but I'm guessing at least another draft pick maybe our second 3rd or a 4th or 5th, and then maybe we could throw in Jamie Sharper because they are hurting in the LB corps.
I'm not worried about giving up Sharper or maybe another player, but I'm worried about the draft picks, especially if they want 2. Chasserly always has said "we build from the draft". They could be throwing this year's draft and a draft pick they once had in Seth Wand who hasn't had enough time to develop away. So much for that.
McNair said at the beginning of the offseason he wanted to fix this OL and he would go in great strides to do so. I'm starting to understand what he meant, but if you want to fix the OLine, LT is not the biggest problem or priority. Go out and find us a better center or a reliable RG and then we can start talking about LT.
I would love to see Orlando Pace here, he could be the missing peice to our offense and really give it a spark. I'm just convinced he will hurt us and the development of this team in the longrun.
I would love to see a player with the caliber of Orlando Pace playing LT, actually just playing for the Texans. If we brought him in here, he would arguably be the best player on the rooster. What I am worried about is what the future would hold.
We have Seth Wand. In two years here and one starting, he has shown promise. Yes he didn't look great, and yes there is questions if he is the guy. But he shows promise and why would you bump a guy down on the depth charts for good if he is still developing and can become a solid starter?
Orlando Pace will come at no prutty price, in more ways than one. He will want a contract probably around $7.5 mil a year if not more. Now if I remember right we just gave Greenwood a contract worth what $22.5 over 4 years? We really don't have that much money to spend, and with this big contract that Pace would cost us, I don't see us making any moves in FA for the next few years without resturcting contracts and what not. Do we really want to go down that road?
I think you guys are getting this wrong--the Texans plan is to have him sign with the Rams first, and then be traded to the Texans. The Texans will sign no offer sheet. It would be foolish to trade away two first round draft picks. But the Rams are making it clear they want at least ONE first rounder, and we seem to be excepting that. What else they want I don't know, but I'm guessing at least another draft pick maybe our second 3rd or a 4th or 5th, and then maybe we could throw in Jamie Sharper because they are hurting in the LB corps.
I'm not worried about giving up Sharper or maybe another player, but I'm worried about the draft picks, especially if they want 2. Chasserly always has said "we build from the draft". They could be throwing this year's draft and a draft pick they once had in Seth Wand who hasn't had enough time to develop away. So much for that.
McNair said at the beginning of the offseason he wanted to fix this OL and he would go in great strides to do so. I'm starting to understand what he meant, but if you want to fix the OLine, LT is not the biggest problem or priority. Go out and find us a better center or a reliable RG and then we can start talking about LT.
I would love to see Orlando Pace here, he could be the missing peice to our offense and really give it a spark. I'm just convinced he will hurt us and the development of this team in the longrun.
alphajoker
Veteran
Hope it happens, just not for two 1st rounders
AndreJ
Rookie
Ranger said:
I think these were very good points, i would hate to see Wand go somewhere else and become a quality starting LT for another team. And if Pace is to come at that big of a price, I'm not sure thats good for the longrun either. I think right now they are looking for an immediate increase in production from the O-Line and thats what they are going after.
I believe the information on here is pretty credible, but i want to see this on ESPN or NFL network, just to see the details and what not.
alphajoker
Veteran
hope your right
Team-Sport
Practice Squad
Do You All Remember This?
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/scout/scout52.html
=====================================
March 17, 2003
The Pace Chase Is On
by Keith Weiland
HoustonProFootball.com
The first true offseason has been a pedestrian one thus far for the Texans. The team signed a couple players here, lost a couple players there. Mix in a low-wattage trade for a backup lineman, and that's really been about it.
Well, the pace may be quickening. And by pace, I mean Orlando Pace.
An all-everything left tackle for the St. Louis Rams, Pace is in the midst of what is turning out to be an nasty round of contract negotiations. At 27 years old and arguably the best lineman in the game, Pace and his agent, Carl Poston, feel as though he deserves some special money.
The Rams know it, too, because they have seen Pace deliver on Sundays. He has been a significant part of their two Super Bowl teams in the past four seasons. Problem is, as a result of that success, the Rams have too many other players that deserve some special money as well.
So to help manage the bleeding of their salary cap, the Rams slapped the gauze of a franchise tag on Pace before the free agency period commenced earlier this month. What that means is that St. Louis keeps Pace on its roster for one year at $5.83 million while the front office negotiates with him and his agent on a long-term deal.
But the pace of those negotiations has slowed to a screeching halt. With the passing of the 15-day deadline that encourages teams to reach long-term deals with their franchised players, the Rams will lose the right to use the franchise tag again for the length of any new contract if Pace is signed before July 15.
Pace is now likely to sit out mini-camps, offseason workouts, and possibly training camp. Pace could even threaten to sit out part of, or even all of, the 2003 season.
Not a big surprise that this could get ugly since there's a history here of prolonged contract disputes between the Rams and Pace. As a result, the rumors linking possible trades involving Pace, ostensibly for the purpose of either side creating some leverage on the other, were left for the fodder of conspiracy theorists and online message boards.
That was until Poston's comments on Friday legitimized some of the rumors.
"We're asking for a trade," he said. "We'd like to see a trade happen. And the only reason we're doing that is that the Rams are not negotiating. They refuse to. I don't know why."
Just a guess, Carl, but the reason why probably has a little something to do with the outrageousness of what you're asking for on behalf of your client.
According to reports in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, the numbers Poston and Pace are asking is something in the range of - you might want to sit down for this - seven or eight years for a total of $85 million, including a $23.8 million bonus. The Rams are believed to be offering roughly half that amount.
Pace is, however, the top offensive tackle in game and that does come at a hefty price. At 6'7" and 325 pounds, Pace was once a strong Heisman candidate - at tackle fer crissakes! - and he has lived up to those expectations as a pro. He was the first overall selection in the 1997 draft, and on his résumé are a few Pro Bowls and a Super Bowl ring.
The idea of a trade could make sense for the Rams, especially if the team is able to acquire a player like the Saints' Kyle Turley for a late first or early second round pick. Turley is asking for less than half the bonus money Pace is seeking.
So where do the Texans fit in to all of this? Probably just as a negotiating ploy, so don't get too carried away, but the Texans are on a VERY short list of possible trading partners should the Rams decide to make an offer.
Houston general manager Charley Casserly wouldn't be doing his job if he weren't at least paying attention to this situation. If Pace could be had for the team's first round pick in April (at #3 overall), plus maybe a couple of third rounders tossed in for good measure, then this could be an attractive acquisition, especially for a team whose quarterback is one year removed from establishing the record for turf sandwiches.
Another possibility for a trade offer might be Houston's early second rounder (#36 overall) this year and a first rounder in 2004. The Rams could then offer Houston's second round selection to add Turley.
Anything more than that though, and the Texans should consider the offer too rich.
The key to any trade is whether Casserly and Poston could knock out a more fiscally responsible contract for the Texans. Ain't no way Pace is getting a $23.8 million bonus, but the figures bandied about might explain why the Texans are the only team currently rumored as being possible suitors in potential trade scenarios.
Other suitors could eventually surface. One team that comes to mind as being in need of a tackle, and having some wiggle room in their 2003 cap, is Carolina.
Yes, them again. Recall that the Panthers were the team that signed Stephen Davis last week, a running back the Texans also pursued.
Before the cap-friendly Davis signing, ESPN estimated Carolina's cap space at $8 million. Assuming Carolina isn't thinking of drafting a franchise quarterback with their first round pick, a trade for a franchise tackle makes a lot of sense for the team. If you wash out the first round money Carolina would owe to its pick at ninth overall, it may be a little easier to justify financially, too.
A few other teams could have interest in Pace. The Dolphins might, though if they are serious about pursuing Brian Griese, then they would need to restructure somebody else on the roster in order to even think about adding Pace.
Seattle is another possible destination if the Seahawks can't work out a long-term deal with their franchised tackle, Walter Jones. Talks were headed nowhere, and now, just like with the negotiations between the Rams and Pace, they have been suspended until July. It seems unlikely, however, that each team would be willing to swap their same headache.
Other teams with either the cap space (like the Vikings) or the need (like the Steelers) don't appear to be good fits on the surface. Toss in the Bucs, who are tight on cap space but are looking at re-signing Roman Oben, and the Chiefs, who own the Vermeil factor - he won a Super Bowl with Pace - and may be willing to trade John Tait, but both are longshots, too.
Don't expect the Texans to make a trade for a while. The only thing that could press the issue of a trade is if the Rams are set in getting Houston's first rounder this year. It wouldn't surprise me if Casserly had an offer on the table by draft day, one he could pull the trigger on if Charles Rogers and/or Terrell Suggs is gone by the third pick.
So how does Houston's incumbent franchise tackle, Tony Boselli, figure into this equation? Wasn't he supposed to be the answer at left tackle anyway? Well, yes, and the Texans still remain optimistic that he'll be ready for the season.
That's at least what the team is telling anybody who asks. Off record, Houston's front office bean counters might say otherwise in light of the restructuring of Boselli's contract in February.
Boselli's 2003 cap hit is now only $3.705 million, which is about half of what it was previously. There are additional incentives if he does in fact play this fall, but if the Texans cut him after the 2003 season, then they only take a cap hit of $3.05 million in 2004.
Boselli probably agreed to the restructuring because he really thinks he can return this year. Regardless of whether he can or can't, he could be gone in another year either way, making him less of an obstacle for the Texans should they pursue Pace in a trade and a long-term deal.
And how's this for David Carr's dream scenario in 2003: A healthy Boselli at one end of the offensive line and a primo Pace at the other? For a player who ate more grass than Bevo last year, he may never get his pants dirty all season.
Keith Weiland counts his lucky stars that he has yet to receive a franchise tag
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/scout/scout52.html
=====================================
March 17, 2003
The Pace Chase Is On
by Keith Weiland
HoustonProFootball.com
The first true offseason has been a pedestrian one thus far for the Texans. The team signed a couple players here, lost a couple players there. Mix in a low-wattage trade for a backup lineman, and that's really been about it.
Well, the pace may be quickening. And by pace, I mean Orlando Pace.
An all-everything left tackle for the St. Louis Rams, Pace is in the midst of what is turning out to be an nasty round of contract negotiations. At 27 years old and arguably the best lineman in the game, Pace and his agent, Carl Poston, feel as though he deserves some special money.
The Rams know it, too, because they have seen Pace deliver on Sundays. He has been a significant part of their two Super Bowl teams in the past four seasons. Problem is, as a result of that success, the Rams have too many other players that deserve some special money as well.
So to help manage the bleeding of their salary cap, the Rams slapped the gauze of a franchise tag on Pace before the free agency period commenced earlier this month. What that means is that St. Louis keeps Pace on its roster for one year at $5.83 million while the front office negotiates with him and his agent on a long-term deal.
But the pace of those negotiations has slowed to a screeching halt. With the passing of the 15-day deadline that encourages teams to reach long-term deals with their franchised players, the Rams will lose the right to use the franchise tag again for the length of any new contract if Pace is signed before July 15.
Pace is now likely to sit out mini-camps, offseason workouts, and possibly training camp. Pace could even threaten to sit out part of, or even all of, the 2003 season.
Not a big surprise that this could get ugly since there's a history here of prolonged contract disputes between the Rams and Pace. As a result, the rumors linking possible trades involving Pace, ostensibly for the purpose of either side creating some leverage on the other, were left for the fodder of conspiracy theorists and online message boards.
That was until Poston's comments on Friday legitimized some of the rumors.
"We're asking for a trade," he said. "We'd like to see a trade happen. And the only reason we're doing that is that the Rams are not negotiating. They refuse to. I don't know why."
Just a guess, Carl, but the reason why probably has a little something to do with the outrageousness of what you're asking for on behalf of your client.
According to reports in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, the numbers Poston and Pace are asking is something in the range of - you might want to sit down for this - seven or eight years for a total of $85 million, including a $23.8 million bonus. The Rams are believed to be offering roughly half that amount.
Pace is, however, the top offensive tackle in game and that does come at a hefty price. At 6'7" and 325 pounds, Pace was once a strong Heisman candidate - at tackle fer crissakes! - and he has lived up to those expectations as a pro. He was the first overall selection in the 1997 draft, and on his résumé are a few Pro Bowls and a Super Bowl ring.
The idea of a trade could make sense for the Rams, especially if the team is able to acquire a player like the Saints' Kyle Turley for a late first or early second round pick. Turley is asking for less than half the bonus money Pace is seeking.
So where do the Texans fit in to all of this? Probably just as a negotiating ploy, so don't get too carried away, but the Texans are on a VERY short list of possible trading partners should the Rams decide to make an offer.
Houston general manager Charley Casserly wouldn't be doing his job if he weren't at least paying attention to this situation. If Pace could be had for the team's first round pick in April (at #3 overall), plus maybe a couple of third rounders tossed in for good measure, then this could be an attractive acquisition, especially for a team whose quarterback is one year removed from establishing the record for turf sandwiches.
Another possibility for a trade offer might be Houston's early second rounder (#36 overall) this year and a first rounder in 2004. The Rams could then offer Houston's second round selection to add Turley.
Anything more than that though, and the Texans should consider the offer too rich.
The key to any trade is whether Casserly and Poston could knock out a more fiscally responsible contract for the Texans. Ain't no way Pace is getting a $23.8 million bonus, but the figures bandied about might explain why the Texans are the only team currently rumored as being possible suitors in potential trade scenarios.
Other suitors could eventually surface. One team that comes to mind as being in need of a tackle, and having some wiggle room in their 2003 cap, is Carolina.
Yes, them again. Recall that the Panthers were the team that signed Stephen Davis last week, a running back the Texans also pursued.
Before the cap-friendly Davis signing, ESPN estimated Carolina's cap space at $8 million. Assuming Carolina isn't thinking of drafting a franchise quarterback with their first round pick, a trade for a franchise tackle makes a lot of sense for the team. If you wash out the first round money Carolina would owe to its pick at ninth overall, it may be a little easier to justify financially, too.
A few other teams could have interest in Pace. The Dolphins might, though if they are serious about pursuing Brian Griese, then they would need to restructure somebody else on the roster in order to even think about adding Pace.
Seattle is another possible destination if the Seahawks can't work out a long-term deal with their franchised tackle, Walter Jones. Talks were headed nowhere, and now, just like with the negotiations between the Rams and Pace, they have been suspended until July. It seems unlikely, however, that each team would be willing to swap their same headache.
Other teams with either the cap space (like the Vikings) or the need (like the Steelers) don't appear to be good fits on the surface. Toss in the Bucs, who are tight on cap space but are looking at re-signing Roman Oben, and the Chiefs, who own the Vermeil factor - he won a Super Bowl with Pace - and may be willing to trade John Tait, but both are longshots, too.
Don't expect the Texans to make a trade for a while. The only thing that could press the issue of a trade is if the Rams are set in getting Houston's first rounder this year. It wouldn't surprise me if Casserly had an offer on the table by draft day, one he could pull the trigger on if Charles Rogers and/or Terrell Suggs is gone by the third pick.
So how does Houston's incumbent franchise tackle, Tony Boselli, figure into this equation? Wasn't he supposed to be the answer at left tackle anyway? Well, yes, and the Texans still remain optimistic that he'll be ready for the season.
That's at least what the team is telling anybody who asks. Off record, Houston's front office bean counters might say otherwise in light of the restructuring of Boselli's contract in February.
Boselli's 2003 cap hit is now only $3.705 million, which is about half of what it was previously. There are additional incentives if he does in fact play this fall, but if the Texans cut him after the 2003 season, then they only take a cap hit of $3.05 million in 2004.
Boselli probably agreed to the restructuring because he really thinks he can return this year. Regardless of whether he can or can't, he could be gone in another year either way, making him less of an obstacle for the Texans should they pursue Pace in a trade and a long-term deal.
And how's this for David Carr's dream scenario in 2003: A healthy Boselli at one end of the offensive line and a primo Pace at the other? For a player who ate more grass than Bevo last year, he may never get his pants dirty all season.
Keith Weiland counts his lucky stars that he has yet to receive a franchise tag
Tailgate
Fall of Hame
Yeah.... seems like ages ago.
I guess the difference between that and this... is that article actually admits its probably a ploy straight from the start.
This scenario has gone as far as a vist with true negotiations. Could end up the same... but this one is a bit more serious. IMO
I guess the difference between that and this... is that article actually admits its probably a ploy straight from the start.
This scenario has gone as far as a vist with true negotiations. Could end up the same... but this one is a bit more serious. IMO
texansfan88
Rookie
According to Berman, Ram's aren't willing to trade him
Texan Gal 312
Waterboy
infantrycak said:
But just who did they give the sack to when the defensive end was forced outside and what should have been well past the quarterback but got the sack when the quarterback could not step up into the pocket.
Carr was continously flushed outside the pocket by an inside rush.
Sometimes stats don't show the entire picture.
texansfan88
Rookie
Just was on Fox 26 sports...that's why I told everyone to watch it earlier in the nightAndreJ said:
texansfan88
Rookie
you must have missed right before the interview with Pace's agent, Berman said that the Rams have told the local Fox station in St. Louis that they had a large offer on the table and wont trade himVinny said:
Vinny
shiny happy fan
They repeated the Rams stance that they want two first rounders as per the F-tag, and gave no new news on that front. This was common knowledge as far as I knew. Orlando stated that he has tried to get a long term deal and that is why he is in Houston. They said the sticking point is not signing Pace...but the Rams compensation. I suspect we will have an answer tomorrow.Tailgate said:
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Texan Gal 312 said:
I was answering someone's request for the stats. But you are correct, Wand and Wade both got hit with sacks in there that were a result of Carr not having a pocket to step up into. Signing Pace wouldn't solve that problem.
Team-Sport
Practice Squad
The Rams want 2 1st Rounders or Equivalent. So Far, its been this year's #13 Pick and friggin bones, IMO.Tailgate said:
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
If the trade does go thru , it'll take some of the fun out of the draft . Just think no 1st round pick .
dirty steve
Veteran
not sure if it has been said, bob allen reported that if it went down, it would be at the owner's meetings next week or right before the draft.
Team-Sport
Practice Squad
I'm jealous of your forum here, for sure. Good Moderation. And you Texans Fans seem almost too nice.Amazing Race said:
dirty steve
Veteran
you haven't seen jaguar troll.
Team-Sport
Practice Squad
We have LOTS of Trolls at Rams Talk. We have several Warnerites (former Rams Fans) that now Hate the Rams for cutting Kurt Warner loose. They Hate Marc Bulger for replacing Warner and participating in Rams Wins. They've already penciled in two losses to the Cardinals, just because they got Warner.dirty steve said:
Be thankful you have Good Moderators.
TexanExile
A New Hope
NFL Total Access discussed this for a couple of minutes tonight...Adam Schefter seemed to be on the same page as the other media sources saying it's just up to compensation to the Rams now.
Wow. Didn't see this coming, but I like the move--in theory. By the way, NO player in the NFL is worth losing two #1 picks over. Ask Nick Saban how he's feeling about trying to rebuild the Dolphins after Ricky Williams made that whole deal blow up. Even WITH Ricky that team's suffered from bad draft moves and a fairly frequent lack of ANY first round pick. That sort of stance is nothing but posturing.
This is potentially soooo much better than some of the other moves this offseason. Very nice to see Houston in a "smart" context in the FA game, rather than just continuing a new annual tradition of overpaying another Dolphin in free agency.
(Easy now, just kidding...I actually liked the Wade pickup.)
Wow. Didn't see this coming, but I like the move--in theory. By the way, NO player in the NFL is worth losing two #1 picks over. Ask Nick Saban how he's feeling about trying to rebuild the Dolphins after Ricky Williams made that whole deal blow up. Even WITH Ricky that team's suffered from bad draft moves and a fairly frequent lack of ANY first round pick. That sort of stance is nothing but posturing.
This is potentially soooo much better than some of the other moves this offseason. Very nice to see Houston in a "smart" context in the FA game, rather than just continuing a new annual tradition of overpaying another Dolphin in free agency.
(Easy now, just kidding...I actually liked the Wade pickup.)
S
SESupergenius
Guest
it would be interesting too if we signed Pace......we play the Rams this year at home.
RiotCommander
Rookie
So much for the Texans not making much of a splash this year in FA. If Orlando Pace isn't a big sign I don't know what is. Not that I'm complaining, I didn't really like any of our options at #13. Also, the chances of DJ falling that far are slim to nill.
Assuming we actually get Pace I hope we focus on the D-line in the draft. I know we resigned a lot of our line already, but most of those guys seem to spend more then half the season on IR.
Assuming we actually get Pace I hope we focus on the D-line in the draft. I know we resigned a lot of our line already, but most of those guys seem to spend more then half the season on IR.
STEEL BLUE TEXANS
Hall of Fame
RiotCommander said:
The Texans FO is just full of surprises.
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
orlando pace would be a nice pick up, would help our passing game and would help D.D !!!!
orlando pace is 29 years old...he's one of the top 3 tackles in the game today depending on where you see him against walter jones, and ogden...carr has been stumped by not having a LT blocking for him since he came to us...if we were able to bring in Pace he would be the only person i see worth the two 1st rounders because this guy isn't making yards he's helping insure that the three main guys who do are safe...giving carr more time to make the right throw so that johnson is lead perfectly and DD has the running room needed to gain over 1200 yds every season...i would like this trade...yeah it makes the draft less interesting for us but...it makes the season that much more fun to watch
Really, 1999, SB34 ring a bell.
The RAMS were ALL offense, the D just had to show up.
This deal will cost you a lot more than Sharper (who the RAMS don't really need) and your #1 this year.
It will take your #1 and multiple other picks and or players.
There are ZERO LT's available either in FA or the draft that are pro bowl players.
jacquescas
Veteran
i dont think we will end up giving the Rams 2 first rounders, because they have til just wednesday to sign him to a long term deal, time is going to press them into taking less.
jacquescas
Veteran
i see us giving up a first a 3rd maybe Wand. We are going to finish with 2 first day picks.
this draft day with tivo i can start 10 hours late.
this draft day with tivo i can start 10 hours late.