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**Official Game-Day Thread** Texans at Jaguars, Dec 17, 2017!!

steelbtexan said:
We shall see, they beat the Tacks today and have some good young talent on defense. Now that the 49ers have found their QB I think they're headed in the right direction. Plus they've got a ton of draft picks this yr.

The Texans not so much, unless you think Watt can turn the clock back. (Doubtful)
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This has been an odd year for the Texans with the injuries (last year we had Mercilus, whose loss has been understated) combined with Vrabel learning on the fly, the Brown hold-out and the McNair putting his foot in is oral orifice yet again. None of which excuses RS for the lack of depth and talent
 
Mr teX said:
whats going on out there with the defense ain't got much to do with vrabel...the secondary has been getting beat like a drum...KJ has replaced buoye as a PI machine...only so much of that you can cover up from a scheme standpoint.
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Here, I'll say it for the umpteinth time...the Texans DB's have never made the defensive front 7 a better unit. It has been the defensive front 7 that has made this group of DB's look respectable. When the pressure on the QB is gone...so is this teams ability to cover.

While I'm at it and for the umpteinth time...KJax needs to be moved to FS where his speed, ability to hit with authority and finally play the game a lot more often facing the play would do him and his career wonders.
 
banned1976 said:
This one, the other Jag game and the Rams game are the only loses I would consider as "beat downs". He's had a tough enough season without embellishing the margins. It's bad, it really is. Maybe a new coach comes in and rights the ship or just furthers the instability on this team. Who knows? It could go either way.
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Oh, it could swing in a hurry, to the really ugly side, if RS is left at the helm and then allowed to hire the next HC. Talk about the Texans fans taking a blindsided throat-punch.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Here, I'll say it for the umpteinth time...the Texans DB's have never made the defensive front 7 a better unit. It has been the defensive front 7 that has made this group of DB's look respectable. When the pressure on the QB is gone...so is this teams ability to cover.

While I'm at it and for the umpteinth time...KJax needs to be moved to FS where his speed, ability to hit with authority and finally play the game a lot more often facing the play would do him and his career wonders.
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I'm most disappointed with the slow development, or lack thereof, of former first-round pick Kevin Johnson. 25 years old and third year in the league. He was supposed to be a game changer and possibly shutdown corner coming out of Wake Forest. I was excited when we invested a first-round pick on him. All I see is an injury plagued guy that gets beat quite often and makes too many stupid penalties.

Maybe Kevin Johnson will become a late bloomer and blossom in the next year or two. It took Kareem Jackson, another first-round pick invested into that position, a while before he became decent after a couple of terrible years in the league early in his career.

We may have to clean house. At the very least firing a lot of our defensive coaches, especially our defensive backs coach. He has to go before this season is over. I'd fire him TODAY! Our group in the secondary has done nothing at all. The young talent we're supposed to have there haven't progressed.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Do we have a bigger failure available to take his spot?
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We could always do what the Minnesota Vikings did.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/12/vikings-spend-many-millions-on-offensive-linemen/

They had an awful and inconsistent offensive line just a year ago. And they addressed that with two excellent signings in free agency last off-season. They spent millions of cap space bringing in two new veteran starters (Reilly Reiff and Mike Remmers) and that has greatly paid off for them. Their offensive line went from bad to good just by making a couple of free agent upgrades to their O-Line.

The Texans do have some decent cap space to work with. The problem is which free agents will want to play here? We still don't know how the fallout from Bob McNair's "inmates running the prison comments" a couple months ago will affect this organization in free agency. Perhaps it has died down and isn't a big deal anymore, but a lot of players around the league will still remember what he said in a negative perspective.
 
banned1976 said:
But when I look at the sheer volume of players on IR, it's no wonder they're losing a few games by wide margins. The 29-7 loss was the worse one, IMHO because that was when the team was healthy. I can't even give a proper analysis of this team right now because there's such a large portion of it, starting from BEFORE the Rams game that won't even be on this or any roster next year. Maybe PS, maybe.

Honest question - do you think any HC in the NFL would have been competitive against the Rams or the Jaguars with the personnel on this team?

Now, to other seasons, almost every HC gets his doors blown off once in awhile (or they lose a game against a much lesser foe, like this past Monday nights game). You made it sound routine for O'Brien and that's just not true. He's also had stop gap QB's here until Watson. I know you don't care, it's too objective.
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The answer to that would be "no" if the other HC's had "Talent Guru RS" filling their roster. As for the 4 year QB dilemma, I guess both RS and O'Brien can only look in the mirror and blame themselves for this situation.

It's a wonder that they haven't been blown out more often this season.
 
zshawn10 said:
Full quotes from Yates and BOB

Yates: "We were ready to play. We were excited, pumped up. There was a good energy before the game."

O’Brien: We couldn’t convert on third down on offense. Our defense had to keep going out there.

Yates: "Obviously they are an incredible defense. They do a great job of creating confusion up front. We didn't execute. There were plays out there to be made, just didn't make them."

T.J. Yates 'Pretty embarrassing I got to do a better job'

Yates on offense: "Pretty embarrassing. Nothing working, nothing going on. I've got to be better at everything."

Bill O'Brien 'no question' he's embarrassed

Bill O'Brien 'we know we have to coach better'

O'Brien: "It has been tough. Players are playing hard, but we haven't been able to get over the hump."

Bill O'Brien on this latest loss "terrible"

Bill O'Brien said Nick Martin looks like a 'pretty serious injury'

O'Brien on #Texans: "I don't think anybody quit. I was watching that. I didn't see that. I know our guys play hard. I never question that."

O'Brien on Jacksonville: "They are coached very well. They are a physical and tough team. They deserve to be where they are at."

O'Brien: "We got off to such a slow start offensively. We just couldn't convert on 3rd down and it snowballed for the whole team."

O'Brien: "I think they (Jaguars) did a better job than us today. They coached better. Our guys fought, played hard but obviously it wasn't good enough."

O'Brien: "We played the exact opposite of complimentary football. Terrible. We didn't coach well enough. We didn't do a good enough job."

O'Brien: "It is everything. It is not one position. We just have to do a better job."
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Hey O'Brien...by seasons end there will have been 47 games during your career with the Texans that lousy coaching has lost the game...that would be a fireable offense at every level of football. Bad coaching with no regard to improvement...maybe like Norv Turner and Dave Wandstadt, you're just not cut out to be an NFL HC. Back your expectations down a notch and just try to be the best OC you can be.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
It's a wonder that they haven't been blown out more often this season.
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They would have never been blown out if Deshaun Watson had stayed healthy and started every game. We have a special talent at quarterback and we were the #1 offense in the league, both in yardage and points per game, in games he had started including a 57-14 thrashing of the playoff bound Titans.

Now we just have to hope he heals (he's already moving around a little bit) and comes back stronger than ever in 2018. No different than when he tore his ACL on his other leg during his freshman year at Clemson. He came back feeling stronger on that leg and his performance had actually improved over the next few years.

Deshaun Watson is the only reason I'd bring back Bill O'Brien in 2018. I thought the two of them showed a lot of promise together. O'Brien simply made a couple of stupid play calls at the end of that Patriots and Seahawks game, costing us two road wins against Super Bowl contenders.

If we bring in a new head coach then Deshaun Watson is essentially starting over with a new offensive system. That's like a wasted year of his development. I'd rather he keep thriving in O'Brien's system. He's already performed amazing in the schemes we run, and he's had plenty of more time to learn while he's been sitting and watching the games due to injury.

People need to visualize the future. Stop worrying about this lost season. If we didn't have a special franchise quarterback then I'd be greatly concerned. Thankfully we do!
 
Some folks are fooling themselves that what they saw with Watson/OB for 6 games would be what you'd see long term. You wouldn't. What you saw was an emergency scramble for a college playbook (or more accurately turning to those pages in E-P which had been virtually ripped out) because of ill preparation due to epic bad judgment. With time and the opportunity to coach Watson up in "the system" things would most likely change/revert.

Watson should work with a coach who from day one sees him as an asset to be honed & built around not a problem to be molded.
 
Missed every single snap and didn't regret it. This team is an after thought at this point in the season.
 
PapaL said:
Missed every single snap and didn't regret it. This team is an after thought at this point in the season.
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I did the best I could to hang around hoping we could keep it competitive. When they scored 21 I couldn't force myself to watch anymore. There's always next week I guess
 
adama51 said:
I did the best I could to hang around hoping we could keep it competitive. When they scored 21 I couldn't force myself to watch anymore. There's always next week I guess
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Exactly! No point in getting worked up over it. Our season is long over. I hope everyone here enjoys their holiday season.
 
infantrycak said:
Some folks are fooling themselves that what they saw with Watson/OB for 6 games would be what you'd see long term. You wouldn't. What you saw was an emergency scramble for a college playbook (or more accurately turning to those pages in E-P which had been virtually ripped out) because of ill preparation due to epic bad judgment. With time and the opportunity to coach Watson up in "the system" things would most likely change/revert.

Watson should work with a coach who from day one sees him as an asset to be honed & built around not a problem to be molded.
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Lol, there's no reason at all to think any of what you're thinking except for your clearly biased opinion about BoB. Adding to that, Ob has never had the caliber of talent that Watson is to work his system..........before or since. In any event, what's the problem with him "turning to those pages in E-P" that he had to all but ignore with Hoylett and Fitztragic? Most HC's OC's tend to pair down their playbook when they know their qb either can't handle or execute it & that's what he did with those guys...He did the direct opposite with Watson.

Furthermore If you believe the stories that have been reported, BoB wanted to start Watson at the beginning of the season......

http://houston.cbslocal.com/2017/10/04/texans-obrien-watson-starting-qb-preseason/


http://texanswire.usatoday.com/2017...om-naming-deshaun-watson-starting-qb-earlier/



which indicates he did see him as an asset from day 1. It was Smith who told him to hold off on it...which technically he did. He gave Savage an opportunity in the opening game & simultaneously gave Smith/Mcnair the piece of mind they desired by not potentially rushing Watson out there. But teapot being teapot, he yanked Savage after a 1/2 anyway.

you guys have to stop inventing narratives.
 
Mr teX said:
Lol, there's no reason at all to think any of what you're thinking except for your clearly biased opinion about BoB.
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4 seasons in of ever decreasing performance is not bias, it's judgment of crappy results and failure to perform.

Adding to that, Ob has never had the caliber of talent that Watson is to work his system..........before or since. In any event, what's the problem with him "turning to those pages in E-P" that he had to all but ignore with Hoylett and Fitztragic?
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OB's failure to have a QB before is largely on OB. Fitz, Hoyer, Mallett all him. Not getting a rookie before, on him. Thinking Savage was as good as the other QBs in his draft, on him. Thinking Savage was ever going to be a starter much less over Watson, on him.

As for the playbook, spare me. We ran rolls and naked bootlegs with a three-toed sloth at QB under Kubiak but OB can't move a QB (even the much more mobile than Schaub Fitz, Keenum and Yates) to save himself.

Furthermore If you believe the stories that have been reported, BoB wanted to start Watson at the beginning of the season......
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I don't because it isn't credible. It's story singular by the way, from an annonymous (cough***OB lacky***cough) source after the full on debacle of the 1st game. Not one whiff of increased 1st team reps at any point for Watson.
 
As I recall, BOB ran some zone read concept stuff with some third string QB a couple of yeas back. Very short lived and non-successful for both the team and the QB.
 
infantrycak said:
4 seasons in of ever decreasing performance is not bias, it's judgment of crappy results and failure to perform.



OB's failure to have a QB before is largely on OB. Fitz, Hoyer, Mallett all him. Not getting a rookie before, on him. Thinking Savage was as good as the other QBs in his draft, on him. Thinking Savage was ever going to be a starter much less over Watson, on him.

As for the playbook, spare me. We ran rolls and naked bootlegs with a three-toed sloth at QB under Kubiak but OB can't move a QB (even the much more mobile than Schaub Fitz, Keenum and Yates) to save himself.



I don't because it isn't credible. It's story singular by the way, from an annonymous (cough***OB lacky***cough) source after the full on debacle of the 1st game. Not one whiff of increased 1st team reps at any point for Watson.
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Lol at you keep mentioning Kubiak. If his offense couldn't run the ball, it was just as dead in the water as Ob's is without competent qb play Please, tell me how many big wins was this explosive offense winning us pre-foster? Tell me, how dynamic & great was Kubiak's offense before Foster when he had the likes of Jonathan Wells, Ron Dayne & Wali Lundy anchoring the all important run game for his offense?

& that story is about as credible as you making sweeping conclusions about what OB thought about Savage vs. Watson.

the fact of the matter is you bought the "offensive genuis" narrative & you feel duped. It's ok, it happens.
 
Mr teX said:
Lol at you keep mentioning Kubiak. If his offense couldn't run the ball, it was just as dead in the water as Ob's is without competent qb play
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You suck at Texans trivia. We led the league in passing with the 30th rushing attack.

& that story is about as credible as you making sweeping conclusions about what OB thought about Savage vs. Watson.
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You're lacking in definitions too. Nothing sweeping about it. OB's words and actions 100% indicated Savage was the starter. The only whiff of dissension came from RS shortly after the draft saying something like we consider all our QBs for the starting role. At no point did OB equivocate or hand starting reps to Watson. Then the rumor rattles around in oblivion until OB looks the fool again for yanking his chosen starter in game 1.

the fact of the matter is you bought the "offensive genuis" narrative & you feel duped. It's ok, it happens.
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Might take your crystal ball in for a checkup. I don't feel duped. I feel time to move on. Both from OB and his fans. Good day.
 
nice straw man but none of that remotely answers any of the questions I asked you. Figures with u. The fact of the matter is his offense didnt lead this team any further in the playoffs than OB’s has.


No definitions needed to see that bud.
 
Kubiak teams got the offense worked out when gibbs turned the oline around but kubisk was flawed going with the buddy system with poor inexperienced deffensive coordinators. finally got Wade in here thatsquared things up on that side . Injuries hit. Poor consistent drafting hit.

We haven't seen much with OB. I feel Watson can be a good one. Yes,I am and was excited seeing what he was doing. However I was skeptical. Game film is a great equalizer and defensive coordinators had none of that on Watson.
 
Went fishing again, not the greatest weather this week but it was better than watching the game. First game I didn't record or tune in somehow since 02. Damn. 15 years. Oh well, going offshore next Sunday. Bring it .. "Fish On!!!"
 
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