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Official 3/4 Assed Game Day Thread for a 3/4 Assed Team - Saints @ Texans

mridge01 said:
Agreed. Sometimes too long because Hoyer seems to hold on to the ball a little too long at times. Makes me a bit nervous. Yates did it last week too on the play where he fumbled.
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On the Griffin TD, he did the right thing eventually (stepped up in the pocket), but only after a moment of panic, almost running right into the pressure.
 
If you ever get a chance to see the all 22, you'll see Hoyer left a lot on the field. He doesn't anticipate routes, he doesn't throw timing routes. It's as if he doesn't trust our receivers & with the number of balls they dropped this year, he's got plenty of reason not to.

I usually don't like a lot of adlibing after a play has run it's course. There are very few guys who can actually make plays consistently enough to get away with it. I don't think Hoyer is one of them, but... he may prove me wrong. & I'm ok with that.

What Hoyer usually does, is what he did on that interception. There were three throws he could have made for a good gain had he anticipated the routes. There was at least one he could have thrown where the receiver (I believe it was Nate Washington) had already settled into a spot with plenty of room around him. It was as if Hoyer saw all that, froze (because the Saints were playing a basic high low zone. Three deep, four underneath). Looked like it was in slow motion to me. As if he thought he could throw the ball to the left of his receiver & his receiver would know to run & catch it. Well, he threw it & no one was there but their safety. Our receiver had made up his mind if he stays still, Hoyer would put the ball right between his numbers.

& this was with very little pass rush. The pocket had broken & Hoyer scrambled out of it. But he was in no danger of being sacked. He thought too long & made a dumb decision.
 
kingtexan said:
I did enjoy the win. Doesn't change the truth. We have a long way to go on offense to even be mediocre.
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Yeah, well you saw what our defense did to that superior offense yesterday.....Some of you guys are so locked in on hating the qb situation here, you're losing perspective. We put up 24 pts yesterday....24 pts the week prior against a stout Jets defense...You put up that amount of pts. every week with how our defense playing the way they've been playing, you should expect to win. hell even with our defense not pitching a shutout it still should be a 50/50 chance your team wins putting up that many points. Who the **** cares how those points get up there, or how we as an offense look getting them. No team is perfect and no team is going to play the perfect game offensively every week...get over yourself.
 
Hervoyel said:
One thing I kept thinking when our offense was on the field in this game was "Hoyer sure has a lot of time to throw" and that's been kind of an ongoing thing over the past couple of weeks (with Yates though). Against the Jets I thought our OL was giving him, if not a lot of time then a lot more than I expected him to have to work with. I like this OL if they keep building on what they having going right now. Brown, X, Jones, Brooks, and Newton if healthy are a decent combination and should just keep getting better. I'd like to see Jones get a little less "gooey" and maybe build some more strength. He needs it but for the most part our OL looks OK. Like infantrycak pointed out in another thread a lot of their issues aren't talent. It's schematic and they seem to be getting it sorted out as they go along.
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Hoyer has always had the tendency to hold the ball for too long, and even he felt like they gave him a lot of time. I'm honestly not sure how he managed only 200 passing yards with that protection. He could have been picking apart that defense a whole lot more than what he was.
 
sandman said:
Hoyer has always had the tendency to hold the ball for too long, and even he felt like they gave him a lot of time. I'm honestly not sure how he managed only 200 passing yards with that protection. He could have been picking apart that defense a whole lot more than what he was.
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What did the coverage look like? I don't recall the Saints blitzing all that much. Were the Texans in max-protect? Were we already in "conservative mode"?

Hoyer is a game-manager, and the Texans won by more than two possessions. Last thing you want is to have Hoyer throwing into coverage and taking chances.
 
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Hoyer can be a pretty good qb if he play every snap like he's down 21 points. It seems he play well and loose when urgency is in the air.
 
dream_team said:
What did the coverage look like? I don't recall the Saints blitzing all that much. Were the Texans in max-protect? Were we already in "conservative mode"?

Hoyer is a game-manager, and the Texans won by more than two possessions. Last thing you want is to have Hoyer throwing into coverage and taking chances.
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They blitzed, but not very heavily, and there were times we brought Lamm in to pass block and they only brought 3-4. We went pretty heavy on extra blockers alot. I liked it though because we also ran out of the same personnel packages so it wasn't tipping the playcall
 
Runner said:
I'm certainly no blind homer, but the defensive performance the last few games is much more in line with I what I thought it would be this year. So why was the defense so bad the first few games? What really changed?
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The most obvious things are TACKLING at impact, Containment on the edges, fewer turnovers to put the defense on the field too quickly and better play by the backfield. I suspect YAC had dived from atrocious to average.
 
klockWork said:
Hoyer can be a pretty good qb if he play every snap like he's down 21 points. It seems he play well and loose when urgency is in the air.
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You mean if defenses play as if they're up by 21. I don't think it's a lack of urgency in Hoyer's part. Imo, it's a problem with smallish windows & little time to process a lot of information.
 
Nick Underhill’s analysis: Inside look at how Texans' J.J. Watt wreaked havoc on Saints' offense

...The conversation is inaccurate if defensive end J.J. Watt does not dominate the discussion.

He was the best, most disruptive player on the field and caused the Saints to game-plan for him, just like every other team does.

And when things were going wrong or quarterback Drew Brees (25-of-44 for 228 yards with one interception) ended up on his back, it was often Watt standing over him after the play.

...

Payton said he’d need to watch the tape before commenting on Watt’s performance. But even though others also played a role, it seems fair to conclude the Texans star defensive end affected this game unlike anyone else.
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Link
 
I don't think fans (and even coaches) around the league truly realize what they're seeing with Watt. I know there are plenty of folks that are a bit worn out with his exposure, and I've had my moments, but we're witnessing one of the singularly great players in NFL history. Watt's quietly leading the sack race with 13.5 (+2 over Ansah) at this point with his whipping boys Ten and Jax still to go. He's long ahead of the next guy for tackles for loss at 23 to Aaron Donald's 14. This is with teams going wildly out of their way to scheme against Watt, and he's only in his 5th season at 26 years old. Barely getting into his prime.

A third DMVP in the works? I'm not a PFF subscriber, but I'm willing to bet he's running away with the ranking again.
 
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dream_team said:
What did the coverage look like? I don't recall the Saints blitzing all that much. Were the Texans in max-protect? Were we already in "conservative mode"?

Hoyer is a game-manager, and the Texans won by more than two possessions. Last thing you want is to have Hoyer throwing into coverage and taking chances.
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The Saints have the worst defense in the league. They are historically bad. Give up 290 yards of passing on average. The leading article on the Saints page on ESPN says they are lucky Texans didn't take advantage of their horrible D.

And we have now gone from "keep your foot on their throat and keep scoring" to "we scored enough to comfortably win so that's all that matters". Did we NEED to score more that 24 points to win the game? Heck, we didn't need more than 7 thanks to the D. But the Saints were giving up over 31 points a game and 425 yards of offense. Even with a new DC it was obvious that even Hoyer left points on the field. Does that mean he had a bad game? Of course not. But it does show that he isn't going to be anything other than what he is. Like Fitz last year, he is a backup starting for a team that can't seem to address their QB issue.
 
Scooter said:
I don't think fans (and even coaches) around the league truly realize what they're seeing with Watt. I know there are plenty of folks that are a bit worn out with his exposure, and I've had my moments, but we're witnessing one of the singularly great players in NFL history. Watt's quietly leading the sack race with 13.5 (+2 over Ansah) at this point with his whipping boys Ten and Jax still to go. He's long ahead of the next guy for tackles for loss at 23 to Aaron Donald's 14. This is with teams going wildly out of their way to scheme against Watt, and he's only in his 5th season at 26 years old. Barely getting into his prime.

A third DMVP in the works? I'm not a PFF subscriber, but I'm willing to bet he's running away with the ranking again.
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I think he'll start getting the Lebron-Brady type treatment where we just get so spoiled at his consistent dominance that we just assume/expect it and just stop voting him for MVP..

If it starts this year (possible due to his over-exposure) probably upstart Josh Norman will win it...
 
sandman said:
The Saints have the worst defense in the league. They are historically bad. Give up 290 yards of passing on average. The leading article on the Saints page on ESPN says they are lucky Texans didn't take advantage of their horrible D.

And we have now gone from "keep your foot on their throat and keep scoring" to "we scored enough to comfortably win so that's all that matters". Did we NEED to score more that 24 points to win the game? Heck, we didn't need more than 7 thanks to the D. But the Saints were giving up over 31 points a game and 425 yards of offense. Even with a new DC it was obvious that even Hoyer left points on the field. Does that mean he had a bad game? Of course not. But it does show that he isn't going to be anything other than what he is. Like Fitz last year, he is a backup starting for a team that can't seem to address their QB issue.
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Yes, we need to get better at QB. But that's an issue for the offseason. Hoyer is the best we got right now. I want to see a Texans team that utilizes its strengths and hides its weaknesses. That means I don't want to be seeing Hoyer trying to do more than he's capable of doing. I haven't watched the all-22, so I have no idea what kind of coverage there was... but last thing I want to see is Hoyer trying to make a throw he isn't comfortable or capable of making when we already have a comfortable lead.
 
dream_team said:
Yes, we need to get better at QB. But that's an issue for the offseason. Hoyer is the best we got right now. I want to see a Texans team that utilizes its strengths and hides its weaknesses. That means I don't want to be seeing Hoyer trying to do more than he's capable of doing. I haven't watched the all-22, so I have no idea what kind of coverage there was... but last thing I want to see is Hoyer trying to make a throw he isn't comfortable or capable of making when we already have a comfortable lead.
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Not disagreeing with anything you say. Just that it was obvious to anyone not enjoying a mango that Hoyer had a LOT of time. Ridiculous amount of time. He really only had one mistake on the day with the WTF? interception. But even Hoyer, with all that time, could have done more. Can I be glad that he didn't try to do anything he wasn't capable of while still being frustrated that even Hoyer should have gone for more than 200 yards against that abomination of a defense?
 
sandman said:
Not disagreeing with anything you say. Just that it was obvious to anyone not enjoying a mango that Hoyer had a LOT of time. Ridiculous amount of time. He really only had one mistake on the day with the WTF? interception. But even Hoyer, with all that time, could have done more. Can I be glad that he didn't try to do anything he wasn't capable of while still being frustrated that even Hoyer should have gone for more than 200 yards against that abomination of a defense?
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Yah, that's fair... but just be prepared to be frustrated every Sunday. Hoyer is going to continue to miss plays.
 
Scooter said:
I don't think fans (and even coaches) around the league truly realize what they're seeing with Watt. I know there are plenty of folks that are a bit worn out with his exposure, and I've had my moments, but we're witnessing one of the singularly great players in NFL history. Watt's quietly leading the sack race with 13.5 (+2 over Ansah) at this point with his whipping boys Ten and Jax still to go. He's long ahead of the next guy for tackles for loss at 23 to Aaron Donald's 14. This is with teams going wildly out of their way to scheme against Watt, and he's only in his 5th season at 26 years old. Barely getting into his prime.

A third DMVP in the works? I'm not a PFF subscriber, but I'm willing to bet he's running away with the ranking again.
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I've already seen the anyone but JJ bandwagon forming for players not even half the player he is. But the exposure overload might do him in for an award he truly deserves.
 
Runner said:
I'm certainly no blind homer, but the defensive performance the last few games is much more in line with I what I thought it would be this year. So why was the defense so bad the first few games? What really changed?
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I think several things changed - some we may never realize, but Rahim Moore being a healthy inactive seems to be a big example of addition by subtraction. They also appear to be finding ways to get Mercilus and Clowney on the field at the same time.
 
dream_team said:
Yes, we need to get better at QB. But that's an issue for the offseason. Hoyer is the best we got right now. I want to see a Texans team that utilizes its strengths and hides its weaknesses. That means I don't want to be seeing Hoyer trying to do more than he's capable of doing. I haven't watched the all-22, so I have no idea what kind of coverage there was... but last thing I want to see is Hoyer trying to make a throw he isn't comfortable or capable of making when we already have a comfortable lead.
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My only thing is that Hoyer is not "the best" we've got right now. Not that I think Tj is better, but he's no worse, imo. Even not "knowing" the offense. Hoyer's the starter, I get that & I'm not arguing that Tj should be. I'm arguing that it doesn't matter.

A lot of my opinion is based on what I like to see from a QB. I like to see a guy who works within the design of the offense. When you see the guy drop back, then move forward... when he moves forward, he should have made up his mind & got rid of the ball.

No one does this on 100% of the throws, I know that. But you watch the guys we normally talk about as better than average (Rodgers, Peyton, Brady) they do it more often than not. When Brian Hoyer almost never throws the ball on time, then "knowing the offense" isn't an advantage.

I will say Hoyer made mostly good decisions when he finally did decide to let it fly, but he was playing a bad defense. There wasn't a lot of pressure, & only one really stupid throw.

He's still 28th in production & there are several guys ahead of him who've missed time. Mariotta, McCown, Tyrod, Roethlisberger...

If he makes it through the Buffalo game without doing anything stupid, I'll be impressed.
 
sandman said:
Let's just hope that the defense continues to dominate and give up 6 points a game.
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And we continue to find ways to get production out of the run game.

I don't know how we're doing it. I'm watching & individually I'm seeing good things across the OL, but there were only a handful of plays where they owned the LOS & made the kind of blocks conducive with the numbers we're seeing.

Wildcat or whatever is helping, but over 120 ypg the last two games... I'm just not seeing it.

Whatever they're doing, I hope they keep doing it. Keep getting better. It's just, right now it defies my logic.
 
thunderkyss said:
And we continue to find ways to get production out of the run game.

I don't know how we're doing it. I'm watching & individually I'm seeing good things across the OL, but there were only a handful of plays where they owned the LOS & made the kind of blocks conducive with the numbers we're seeing.

Wildcat or whatever is helping, but over 120 ypg the last two games... I'm just not seeing it.

Whatever they're doing, I hope they keep doing it. Keep getting better. It's just, right now it defies my logic.
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Blue still can't find a hole to save his life, but at least instead of falling down he is keeping his feet churning for positive yards. His runs remind me of a rugby maul. Grimes is taking advantage of wildcat type plays and showing good hands on catches. And Hunt. I want to see more Hunt.
 
thunderkyss said:
My only thing is that Hoyer is not "the best" we've got right now. Not that I think Tj is better, but he's no worse, imo. Even not "knowing" the offense. Hoyer's the starter, I get that & I'm not arguing that Tj should be. I'm arguing that it doesn't matter.

A lot of my opinion is based on what I like to see from a QB. I like to see a guy who works within the design of the offense. When you see the guy drop back, then move forward... when he moves forward, he should have made up his mind & got rid of the ball.

No one does this on 100% of the throws, I know that. But you watch the guys we normally talk about as better than average (Rodgers, Peyton, Brady) they do it more often than not. When Brian Hoyer almost never throws the ball on time, then "knowing the offense" isn't an advantage.

I will say Hoyer made mostly good decisions when he finally did decide to let it fly, but he was playing a bad defense. There wasn't a lot of pressure, & only one really stupid throw.

He's still 28th in production & there are several guys ahead of him who've missed time. Mariotta, McCown, Tyrod, Roethlisberger...

If he makes it through the Buffalo game without doing anything stupid, I'll be impressed.
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I agree with this, especially on play action he will take a 5 step drop step up and the ball should be coming out, but it doesn't he continues to move around in the pocket side to side or what not and the start of a beautiful play action pass play turns into a dud, or a minimal gain. Look at how even Yates did it on most the play action we saw in him limited role. The 61 yarder to Hopkins was perfect, PA 5 step drop, step up plant your foot and we have a 61 yard TD. That is one thing i miss about Schaub when he was good, when he did take a 5 step PA pass you could almost always bet he was going deep, not 3 yards down the field to a RB.
 
Runner said:
I'm certainly no blind homer, but the defensive performance the last few games is much more in line with I what I thought it would be this year. So why was the defense so bad the first few games? What really changed?
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First off, I think HK had a lot to do with the poor start. We were stuck in celebrity mode going into the season.

I think the demoting of Rahim Moore was huge. He was an absolute abomination in the defensive backfield. Demps and Hal seem to be working well together after all the mumbo jumbo we've tried at S this season.

Solidifying the LB spot next to Cush helps too, imo. McKinney might not be a burner, but he looks like he might have the Watt 'relentless' type attitude. Dent and Tuggle both struggled mightily against both the run and pass.

Those are my thoughts. I'm not sure how much water they hold, but....
 
Scooter said:
I don't think fans (and even coaches) around the league truly realize what they're seeing with Watt. I know there are plenty of folks that are a bit worn out with his exposure, and I've had my moments, but we're witnessing one of the singularly great players in NFL history. Watt's quietly leading the sack race with 13.5 (+2 over Ansah) at this point with his whipping boys Ten and Jax still to go. He's long ahead of the next guy for tackles for loss at 23 to Aaron Donald's 14. This is with teams going wildly out of their way to scheme against Watt, and he's only in his 5th season at 26 years old. Barely getting into his prime.

A third DMVP in the works? I'm not a PFF subscriber, but I'm willing to bet he's running away with the ranking again.
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He also has 41 QB hits with the next closest at 24. The QB hit stat only goes back to 2006, but other than Watt, only 6 players have ever had 30 QBH in a season, with 33 being the most. No one has ever had two 30 QBH seasons. Watt has topped 40 for 4 years in a row including 50 last season. And at 41 with 5 games to go, he has a very good chance of hitting 50 two years in a row. Again, no one has ever done 30 twice.

He's not just the best of the best in the game, he's dominating the best of the game.

I couldn't care less what people think of him, getting tired of the exposure, his commercials, whatever. I only care about what he does on a football field in a Houston Texans uniform. The man is already up there with the best, if not the best, in the history of the game. He's our MJ, he's our Ruth. Dude is a flat out beast.
 
Scooter said:
I don't think fans (and even coaches) around the league truly realize what they're seeing with Watt. I know there are plenty of folks that are a bit worn out with his exposure, and I've had my moments, but we're witnessing one of the singularly great players in NFL history. Watt's quietly leading the sack race with 13.5 (+2 over Ansah) at this point with his whipping boys Ten and Jax still to go. He's long ahead of the next guy for tackles for loss at 23 to Aaron Donald's 14. This is with teams going wildly out of their way to scheme against Watt, and he's only in his 5th season at 26 years old. Barely getting into his prime.

A third DMVP in the works? I'm not a PFF subscriber, but I'm willing to bet he's running away with the ranking again.
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I agree Watt is a great defensive player & will set many records in his career....However, he was way way overpaid....There went the QB money....and teams that make the playoffs consistently (and teams that win Super Bowls) don't get there because they have 1 great DE.....they get there because they have really really good to great QB's....me personally, I would trade him for a great QB in a heart beat....But Bob will never trade Watt because he's a marketing money machine.
 
Phoenix said:
I agree Watt is a great defensive player & will set many records in his career....However, he was way way overpaid....There went the QB money....and teams that make the playoffs consistently (and teams that win Super Bowls) don't get there because they have 1 great DE.....they get there because they have really really good to great QB's....me personally, I would trade him for a great QB in a heart beat....But Bob will never trade Watt because he's a marketing money machine.
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Hahahahahahaha!

For a minute I thought you were serious.
 
Phoenix said:
I agree Watt is a great defensive player & will set many records in his career....However, he was way way overpaid....There went the QB money....and teams that make the playoffs consistently (and teams that win Super Bowls) don't get there because they have 1 great DE.....they get there because they have really really good to great QB's....me personally, I would trade him for a great QB in a heart beat....But Bob will never trade Watt because he's a marketing money machine.
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Not exactly true, IF everyone is wanting to draft our franchise QB then it won't be a problem due to the rookie signing cap installed a few seasons ago. We can have a high quality starter cheap for 4 years, and if need be after that i'm sure JJ would be willing to restructure if need be.

Unless your wanting to go out in FA and spend a 100 million on a FA QB in the off season, but honestly there will not be anyone good enough on the market at that time in which i would sell the house for.
 
EllisUnit said:
Not exactly true, IF everyone is wanting to draft our franchise QB then it won't be a problem due to the rookie signing cap installed a few seasons ago. We can have a high quality starter cheap for 4 years, and if need be after that i'm sure JJ would be willing to restructure if need be.
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5 years for 1st rounders.

And just for clarity JJ does not get franchise QB money. The largest cap hit of his contract is $15.5 (this year $13.9). Above average QBs with recent contracts are $20+.
 
Phoenix said:
I agree Watt is a great defensive player & will set many records in his career....However, he was way way overpaid....There went the QB money....and teams that make the playoffs consistently (and teams that win Super Bowls) don't get there because they have 1 great DE.....they get there because they have really really good to great QB's....me personally, I would trade him for a great QB in a heart beat....But Bob will never trade Watt because he's a marketing money machine.
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I'm REALLY glad you are NOT in charge of personnel.
 
Imagine we drafted Tj Yeldon instead of Jalen Strong... or Terrence West instead of Lewis Nix.

Or if O'Brien didn't have this awkward affection for Alfred Blue, or that he didn't misremember Chris Polk owning us.
 
DBCooper said:
Hahahahahahaha!

For a minute I thought you were serious.
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....lol....I am....DE's don't win championships....QB's & coaching staffs win championships....Don't get me wrong I would love to keep Watt..."for less money".... AND get a championship quality QB.....And if Watt would restructure his contract and help free money to pay the going rate for a top 10 QB I would definitely keep JJ...But otherwise I would be willing to trade him for the right QB
 
Phoenix said:
....lol....I am....DE's don't win championships....QB's & coaching staffs win championships....Don't get me wrong I would love to keep Watt..."for less money".... AND get a championship quality QB.....And if Watt would restructure his contract and help free money to pay the going rate for a top 10 QB I would definitely keep JJ...But otherwise I would be willing to trade him for the right QB
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Defense wins championships.
 
infantrycak said:
Funny, there was one just inducted into the HoF with 5 SB rings. An accomplishment not yet achieved by a QB or HC.
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Your right "One"......out of how many?
I think u would agree that we can learn a lot about what it takes to be a championship team by looking at previous championship teams....look at who's won the last 10 or 12 Super Bowls....What is it they have in common?
Patriots / Brady / Bilichick
Sea Hawks / Wilson / Carroll
Giants / Manning / Coughlin
Packers / Rogers / McCarthy
Steelers / Rothlesburger / Tomlin
Etc etc

Can u see the connection?
Look man we all love JJ & all the talent , integrity etc etc he represents....that's a given. But are u telling me u wouldn't trade him for one of the QB's listed above?
It's just a fact nothing personal....JJ is not going to win us a championship....A great QB & Coach wins championships. I actually feel bad for JJ.... He is wasting his brilliant career on a losing team & a dysfunctional organization..... What a shame.....I'd rather watch him play for a real solid winning organization where he can win & wear the Super Bowl rings he deserves....
 
We need to find Watt a Favre before he goes looking for one. ;)

I remember Reggie White not winning a Super Bowl until he went to Green Bay when Favre was quarterback.
 
Phoenix said:
Your right "One"......out of how many?
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You aren't worth a conversation if you are going to chop sentences off. One DE with 5 SB rings, something never achieved by a QB or HC.

The only QB I would definitely trade for is Rodgers. I'd strongly consider Wilson.

But the main problem with your position is having Watt and a top tier QB are not mutually exclusive.
 
infantrycak said:
You aren't worth a conversation if you are going to chop sentences off. One DE with 5 SB rings, something never achieved by a QB or HC.

The only QB I would definitely trade for is Rodgers. I'd strongly consider Wilson.

But the main problem with your position is having Watt and a top tier QB are not mutually exclusive.
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Lol, he needs to evaluate the defenses on those teams
 
Phoenix said:
Your right "One"......out of how many?
I think u would agree that we can learn a lot about what it takes to be a championship team by looking at previous championship teams....look at who's won the last 10 or 12 Super Bowls....What is it they have in common?
Patriots / Brady / Bilichick
Sea Hawks / Wilson / Carroll
Giants / Manning / Coughlin
Packers / Rogers / McCarthy
Steelers / Rothlesburger / Tomlin
Etc etc

Can u see the connection?
Look man we all love JJ & all the talent , integrity etc etc he represents....that's a given. But are u telling me u wouldn't trade him for one of the QB's listed above?
It's just a fact nothing personal....JJ is not going to win us a championship....A great QB & Coach wins championships. I actually feel bad for JJ.... He is wasting his brilliant career on a losing team & a dysfunctional organization..... What a shame.....I'd rather watch him play for a real solid winning organization where he can win & wear the Super Bowl rings he deserves....
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This is a team sport.

Lol, feeling sorry for poor JJ, that's funny right there!
 
Phoenix said:
Your right "One"......out of how many?
I think u would agree that we can learn a lot about what it takes to be a championship team by looking at previous championship teams....look at who's won the last 10 or 12 Super Bowls....What is it they have in common?
Patriots / Brady / Bilichick
Sea Hawks / Wilson / Carroll
Giants / Manning / Coughlin
Packers / Rogers / McCarthy
Steelers / Rothlesburger / Tomlin
Etc etc

Can u see the connection?
Look man we all love JJ & all the talent , integrity etc etc he represents....that's a given. But are u telling me u wouldn't trade him for one of the QB's listed above?
It's just a fact nothing personal....JJ is not going to win us a championship....A great QB & Coach wins championships. I actually feel bad for JJ.... He is wasting his brilliant career on a losing team & a dysfunctional organization..... What a shame.....I'd rather watch him play for a real solid winning organization where he can win & wear the Super Bowl rings he deserves....
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You do remember all the last Super Bowls won by those QBs were won on a defensive play, right? & more times than not, that defense was stopping one of those QBs.

I get what you're saying, without that QB, we're not winning a Super Bowl. But give us Tom Brady, remove Watt... I doubt we'll win a Super Bowl.

The thing that makes those QBs great, or at least pretty dang good, is the fact that they're on good teams. Really good teams. Chicken & Egg and all that, but... Eli isn't winning that last Super Bowl without those 4 pass rushers. Take anyone of them off that team & they were barely 9-7

I think we're a QB away from winning a Super Bowl, in spite of Rick Smith & all. But only because I think we've got a team that could support that QB.
 
Phoenix said:
Your right "One"......out of how many?
I think u would agree that we can learn a lot about what it takes to be a championship team by looking at previous championship teams....look at who's won the last 10 or 12 Super Bowls....What is it they have in common?
Patriots / Brady / Bilichick
Sea Hawks / Wilson / Carroll
Giants / Manning / Coughlin
Packers / Rogers / McCarthy
Steelers / Rothlesburger / Tomlin
Etc etc

Can u see the connection?
Look man we all love JJ & all the talent , integrity etc etc he represents....that's a given. But are u telling me u wouldn't trade him for one of the QB's listed above?
It's just a fact nothing personal....JJ is not going to win us a championship....A great QB & Coach wins championships. I actually feel bad for JJ.... He is wasting his brilliant career on a losing team & a dysfunctional organization..... What a shame.....I'd rather watch him play for a real solid winning organization where he can win & wear the Super Bowl rings he deserves....
Click to expand...

God i get so tired of hearing this statement in regards to players..This isn't a brilliant pianist losing his ability to play the piano due to a degenerative nerve condition where no choice is given..This is a guy being very well compensated to play a game in a place that he chose. He isn't being overpaid & we can get a very good to great qb with his salary as it is now. Hell if anything he's probably underpaid. The 1 constant in winning SB's is stout defenses...not a great HC/qb. & more often than not when we've seen the best offenses match up with the best defenses, the best defense always has won. Offense can get you to a championship, Defense wins them b/c they have the ability to put points on the board like an offense..
 
Phoenix said:
Patriots / Brady / Bilichick
Sea Hawks / Wilson / Carroll
Giants / Manning / Coughlin
Packers / Rogers / McCarthy
Steelers / Rothlesburger / Tomlin
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Pats - won when they had a bigtime defense. Defense retired and zero rings, just won again now that the defense has drastically improved
Seahawks - Legion of Boom
Giants - only won because of their defense, done once their killer front 4 moved on - and just plain lucky
Packers - one good year on defense, haven't been back since
Steelers - awesome defense, have fallen off since the defense retired
Indy - only had 1 good postseason defense (oddly enough were horrid during the regular season)
Ravens - held Indy and Pats to a combined 21 points, and were crushing the 49'ers until blackout

Offense wins games, defense wins championships. Sadly we probably don't have enough offense to actually get to the playoffs.
 
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