CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Sorry, I didn't make it clear.......was responding to DB's post. I was talking about Wi-fi.
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NRG Stadium's Hazardous Turf
- Thread starter qqert
- Start date
Sorry, I didn't make it clear.......was responding to DB's post. I was talking about Wi-fi.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Whether footwear or the field, it will do no good for already crippled players to have this happen to them. This was happening throughout last game.
https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/BFAAAB3E061161900434970050560_34393c4ad16.1.4.16937690525838802073.mp4?versionId=h99QBVHSud3q__n33Ve2Lert.Kb68Qqe
https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/BFAAAB3E061161900434970050560_34393c4ad16.1.4.16937690525838802073.mp4?versionId=h99QBVHSud3q__n33Ve2Lert.Kb68Qqe
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
And the Rodeo is more than just a renter since it contributed significantly to the construction of the stadium. It was a joint venture with the City, Texans and Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo.
"The Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo (or RodeoHouston) is a co-tenant of NRG Stadium. "The building is as much for the rodeo as it is for the National Football League," according to Leroy Shafer who is assistant general manager of the rodeo's marketing department.[21] The rodeo is held three weeks in March, each year. During this time NRG Stadium also hosts an event on the Xtreme Bulls tour, the bull riding-only tour that is part of the PRCA, who also hosts the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo.
The stadium includes a service area level to house rodeo livestock. The bulls, broncs, steers and roping calves are housed in the north end of the stadium under the lower bowl. Loading and unloading dock space to support the rodeo is located on the north end of the stadium. During rodeo performances, rolling doors will separate the dock into two receiving areas to isolate the food and concession deliveries from the rodeo equipment and livestock deliveries. A 42-foot (13 m) concert performance stage is located at the south end of the stadium during rodeo events and is moved into the center of the facility by a hydraulic drive system for rodeo concert performances.[21]
On February 25, 2012, the PBR brought its premier bull riding tour, the Built Ford Tough Series, to Reliant Stadium for the first time ever. It was the first time that a PBR event was a part of RodeoHouston.[22][23] In addition, it was their first event in Houston in 11 years, after having previously held an event at the Compaq Center annually between 1998 and 2001."
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
It has happened in all games and in all cities. I suspect there has been an issue with the shoes since I first noticed the problem was particularly severe with the pink shoes. I felt there might be some difference in the traction of newer soles made of different plastics which might lend themselves to vibrant colors at the expense of resistance. That and smaller and no cleat designs which seek to minimize damage to fields at the expense of footing. They did it with Golfers and I suspect it is happening with ballplayers as well.
It might not be the turf, but the footwear.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Look carefully. This is not a problem with the turf, but with traction between turf and shoes. I suspect there are cleat and shoe problems. But there is a possibility of excess moisture creating footing problems if the field hasn't had sufficient time to dry. Sometimes a damp field is more slippery then a wet field.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Jaguar fans are blaming the field for Sen'derrick Marks' torn ACL.. Just throwing that out there.
yeah, many here don't realize that injuries happen in every stadium... and every stadium is blamed for the turf
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
A soil that does not drain well will be either too wet (water-logged) or too dry. Either condition will produce poor grass and a poor football field. When soil is too wet, it will become slippery and inevitably move under force. For the game of football, drainage and soil stability (cohesion) are very important for a good quality field that will be safe for players. A sand rootzone that absorbs and drains water very quickly can take several inches of water in less than a few minutes, but this type of rootzone offers turf little protection from the damaging forces delivered by the game of football.
Independent of the lack of "cohesiveness" at the intersecting borders of the pallet grass, the above variables are very difficult if not impossible to control due to the construction of the pallet system itself. There is no true soil drainage system in that it is like a French drain (fig. below) without the ability to continue to drain excess water below the sand/gravel layer or be diverted and distributed to a remote area by an underlying pipe system. The pallets by the nature of their construction must contain the drainage within a limited area, and is not really shared with neighboring pallets. The drainage layer is sand and peat moss. The company states a 4 inch per hour drainage, but anyone who has ever dealt with grass and sod knows that a number thrown out like this is far from consistent/accurate. This would especially be true when dealing with 2500 different pallets, realistically with not being able to deliver totally uniform watering techniques from pallet to pallet.
You may have the best grounds keepers in the country, and it is likely that they will never predictably be able to control the level of "wetness" or "dryness" of the NRG field from pallet to pallet. This fact could easily explain the difficulty of choosing any footwear for any given game.........in that, in order to affect good traction and assure player safety, one pallet may require shorter cleats while another may require longer cleats.......leaving the team and the players with a fool's decision.
Independent of the lack of "cohesiveness" at the intersecting borders of the pallet grass, the above variables are very difficult if not impossible to control due to the construction of the pallet system itself. There is no true soil drainage system in that it is like a French drain (fig. below) without the ability to continue to drain excess water below the sand/gravel layer or be diverted and distributed to a remote area by an underlying pipe system. The pallets by the nature of their construction must contain the drainage within a limited area, and is not really shared with neighboring pallets. The drainage layer is sand and peat moss. The company states a 4 inch per hour drainage, but anyone who has ever dealt with grass and sod knows that a number thrown out like this is far from consistent/accurate. This would especially be true when dealing with 2500 different pallets, realistically with not being able to deliver totally uniform watering techniques from pallet to pallet.
You may have the best grounds keepers in the country, and it is likely that they will never predictably be able to control the level of "wetness" or "dryness" of the NRG field from pallet to pallet. This fact could easily explain the difficulty of choosing any footwear for any given game.........in that, in order to affect good traction and assure player safety, one pallet may require shorter cleats while another may require longer cleats.......leaving the team and the players with a fool's decision.
I'm so glad we didn't make the play offs. Now there won't be any field-related injuries in this year's play offs.
frethack
Rookie
A soil that does not drain well will be either too wet (water-logged) or too dry. Either condition will produce poor grass and a poor football field. When soil is too wet, it will become slippery and inevitably move under force. For the game of football, drainage and soil stability (cohesion) are very important for a good quality field that will be safe for players. A sand rootzone that absorbs and drains water very quickly can take several inches of water in less than a few minutes, but this type of rootzone offers turf little protection from the damaging forces delivered by the game of football.
Independent of the lack of "cohesiveness" at the intersecting borders of the pallet grass, the above variables are very difficult if not impossible to control due to the construction of the pallet system itself. There is no true soil drainage system in that it is like a French drain (fig. below) without the ability to continue to drain excess water below the sand/gravel layer or be diverted and distributed to a remote area by an underlying pipe system. The pallets by the nature of their construction must contain the drainage within a limited area, and is not really shared with neighboring pallets. The drainage layer is sand and peat moss. The company states a 4 inch per hour drainage, but anyone who has ever dealt with grass and sod knows that a number thrown out like this is far from consistent/accurate. This would especially be true when dealing with 2500 different pallets, realistically with not being able to deliver totally uniform watering techniques from pallet to pallet.
You may have the best grounds keepers in the country, and it is likely that they will never predictably be able to control the level of "wetness" or "dryness" of the NRG field from pallet to pallet. This fact could easily explain the difficulty of choosing any footwear for any given game.........in that, in order to affect good traction and assure player safety, one pallet may require shorter cleats while another may require longer cleats.......leaving the team and the players with a fool's decision.
Im impressed CND, not only are you a medical doctor, but you dabble in geology as well. You make a geologist proud
I cant see a scenario where our field moisture could be made homogeneous, but this should be true of any field, even in a controlled environment. The difference is in the gradients between wet and dry patches on the field. Making a cut from a stable pallet with moderate moisture to a more saturated pallet wouldnt allow a player to make adjustments based on the turf that he just came from. On an unsegmented field there should still be relatively wet and dry areas, but there are gradients between that allow a player to adjust to changes in field conditions.
Even if the pallets are watered as a whole, the root networks and soil inconsistencies at the edges of pallets would likely diffuse water less efficiently than an unsegmented field.
I just dont see how the problem can be resolved without artificial turf and a way to seamlessly interlock the pallets. The rodeo keeps us from having a natural indoor field (LED growing can do wonders), and its not going anywhere any time soon.
Im impressed CND, not only are you a medical doctor, but you dabble in geology as well. You make a geologist proud
I cant see a scenario where our field moisture could be made homogeneous, but this should be true of any field, even in a controlled environment. The difference is in the gradients between wet and dry patches on the field. Making a cut from a stable pallet with moderate moisture to a more saturated pallet wouldnt allow a player to make adjustments based on the turf that he just came from. On an unsegmented field there should still be relatively wet and dry areas, but there are gradients between that allow a player to adjust to changes in field conditions.
Even if the pallets are watered as a whole, the root networks and soil inconsistencies at the edges of pallets would likely diffuse water less efficiently than an unsegmented field.
I just dont see how the problem can be resolved without artificial turf and a way to seamlessly interlock the pallets. The rodeo keeps us from having a natural indoor field (LED growing can do wonders), and its not going anywhere any time soon.
We just need to refurbish the astrodome and kick the rodeo back to there...
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Im impressed CND, not only are you a medical doctor, but you dabble in geology as well. You make a geologist proud
I cant see a scenario where our field moisture could be made homogeneous, but this should be true of any field, even in a controlled environment. The difference is in the gradients between wet and dry patches on the field. Making a cut from a stable pallet with moderate moisture to a more saturated pallet wouldnt allow a player to make adjustments based on the turf that he just came from. On an unsegmented field there should still be relatively wet and dry areas, but there are gradients between that allow a player to adjust to changes in field conditions.
Even if the pallets are watered as a whole, the root networks and soil inconsistencies at the edges of pallets would likely diffuse water less efficiently than an unsegmented field.
I just dont see how the problem can be resolved without artificial turf and a way to seamlessly interlock the pallets. The rodeo keeps us from having a natural indoor field (LED growing can do wonders), and its not going anywhere any time soon.
Your additional input is much appreciated. Rep coming your way!
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I wonder how many events require the removal of the pallets? If it were just the Texans and the rodeo, then removing the field annually after Football season and replacing it after the rodeo doesn't seem too unmanageable.
Then limit the field to one game per week. Perhaps have a quickly removable surface for high school games which simply lays over the natural field and doesn't require it's removal IF it protects the field rather than hurts it AND still provides a stable surface for the kids.. I'm just trying to see what could be done to mitigate the problem without creating even more.
I think we can overcome the lighting problems they had in the dome with artificial lighting designed for plant growth. But if tray to tray uniformity or problems with the seems is determined to be the problem, then we need a solution outside the box but within the parameters and limitations of the stadium and primary tenants needs.
Then limit the field to one game per week. Perhaps have a quickly removable surface for high school games which simply lays over the natural field and doesn't require it's removal IF it protects the field rather than hurts it AND still provides a stable surface for the kids.. I'm just trying to see what could be done to mitigate the problem without creating even more.
I think we can overcome the lighting problems they had in the dome with artificial lighting designed for plant growth. But if tray to tray uniformity or problems with the seems is determined to be the problem, then we need a solution outside the box but within the parameters and limitations of the stadium and primary tenants needs.
County keeps it busy with truck pulls, concerts and other events year round
Troy Chapman
Rookie
Hartmann's lawyer was back on 610 this afternoon at the beginning of the 4 o'clock hour. Pretty interesting stuff. Not sure if the podcast is up yet on 610's website.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
Short recap?
Troy Chapman
Rookie
I was driving home so don't recall it all. He talked about subpoena's for McNair, O'Brien, Clowney. He talked about walking on the field last year and taking about 200 pictures, said there were holes that his foot fit into. He asked the maintenance staff what they planned to do, they said fill divots and paint. He said his shoes were stained green from all the paint. Rich Lord admitted that he is on the subpoena list since he was on the sidelines during games.
And he felt very confident that field turf or some other alternative would be in place for the 2015 season. And they talked about SB 51, and how the NFL grows their own grass and trucks it in via refrigerated trucks; which they did for this year's game in Arizona.
Sounds like some chickens are about to come home to roost. What date does the subpoenaed testimony begin?
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Anything that will bring about change is good, I hope He wins his case. They're kinda putting Clowney in a tough spot though.. It's never good when you have to testify against your current employer. (assuming that's what he's going to have to do)
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
That's not going to be possible from the engineering point of view. Or at least ridiculously expensive.
no they just need to rethink things and stop bs shows during season. Put the field and leave it alone.
expnsie, yes. Impossible, no
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
You're going to tear down and re-engineer the entire south stand just to roll the field in? Other than doing that how are you proposing to get rid of the multiple supporting structures that have to have solid foundation and can't be dug under to get the field in?
Arizona style field is not going to work at NRG. Won't happen.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
Yep, thats what I'd do.
yup, reach an agreement with the county that from August to February, the field is exclusive Texans and the County and HLSR can have it the rest of the time
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Pretty cavalier with other people's money.
IF that is even possible, you're talking something which would put the stadium out of commission for a season. I don't think it's possible without essentially rebuilding the stadium.
It would take major retooling, and not sure it's possible then. What's at ground level of the south end now? Where are locker rooms and stuff? Electrical equipment rooms? What is the support structure?
Easiest to just decide on a field, put it in an leave it for 6 mos a year
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
And even IF that is possible at all, how to do compensate for the lost stadium capacity? Where do you add seats? Has anyone seen what's at the end zone of the AZ stadium where the field gets rolled in and out? It's like 5 rows of bleacher seats or something like that. Because there is nothing there to support anything more than that.
This will never ever happen. They will use field turf ten times over before even considering this sort of option.
False Start
On # 69
That grass at the SB, was just absolutely beautiful! 
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I think that's the best solution. The $64k question is if the Rodeo and Country will go along.
Troy Chapman
Rookie
How much would it cost the owners of the stadium to lose out on 6 months worth of business?
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
And who ultimately bears the cost of that loss? Taxpayers? Season ticket holders?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
No idea but would guess somewhere in the several mil range wouldn't you?
Troy Chapman
Rookie
All good questions
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
And how far in advance to they contract for these events? Are there HS playoffs, concerts, soccer matches that may already be legally agreed to that won't take place for another 2 or 3 years? If memory serves, one of the specific events folks are complaining about is the Texas Bowl (because they actually played on the same field as the Texans). How long does the contract on that run, and how difficult/expensive would it be to get out of it if it's more than another year or two?
I don't know if this is the best functional solution or not, but because it's taking money directly of of someone's (likely several someones) pocket(s), I don't see this as an option any of the decision makers are gonna be open to.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Podcast: http://houston.cbslocal.com/2015/02...rien-and-clowney-will-be-deposed-in-smg-suit/
First part is PGA caddies, turf info follows...
Sounds like its a foregone conclusion that the surface will be changed for 2015, with Egdorf saying most likely field turf.
but it's not the grass itself that's the issue. It's the inconsistent surface under the dang grass. If they don't fix that, they haven't addressed root cause.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
LOL - you're listening to a plaintiff's attorney talking to the press before trial? He's working the jury pool.
Earlier in this thread, we looked at the events scheduled at NRG Stadium during football season, and there are not many non-football events. Disney on Ice is the only one I can think of, and that can easily be scheduled at Toyota Center or after football season.
They have to weigh the potential loss of business against the potential loss of players, reputation, and perhaps even money if this lawsuit is lost.
Yep, most of the events can easily be moved or rescheduled
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Actually it was one of 610AM's "Triple Threat" guys who said...
Egdorf just surmised it would be field turf because he doesn't see other grass options.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I'm highly dubious of anyone at the Texans saying there will be a field change to anyone in the media prior to the trial. If they did, Rick Smith is walking around on Kirby with a machete.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
When is the trial? Egdorf was talking about deposing McNair/O'Brien/Clowney yet. If they're going to change the surface I think it'll become evident in the next few months. And if they're planning the change, wouldn't that be readily discoverable by asking them under oath?