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cstyle42 said:
Will Schaub lead a team to a AFC Championship game in his career? Did his qbr take the texans there? Tom Brady is successful because he shows up in big games. Does he win every year? No. He has won games... late 4th quarter with seconds left games... he has done that many many times. The texans wasn't even asking Schaub to be Brady... just be half of Brady but don't literally lose the games for us. Most were in denial about Schaub but if you are honest about it Schaub was overrated hence the contract the texans signed him to. I know this thread is about the future head coach Bill O'Brien who would have had Schaub outta here or benched all long time ago.
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So. When Brady was drafted, did have have "IT"? Did you watch him at Michigan and say to yourself "Wow. That guy has IT!" How about when Kurt Warner was drafted? How about Mark Sanchez?

Now, you're looking at a broken Schaub and say, "Well, he never had 'IT' because he never won any big games." Which is BS. He won a lot of big games and if he'd had a decent defense for most of his time here, he would have won a lot more. He's led drives to win games in the last seconds lots of times... only to leave a few seconds on the clock and have his defense let him down.

How much of "IT" did Brady have that 18-1 season? Not quite enough to beat Eli, huh? And why is that? Is it because of a lack of "IT" or because Eli had more of "IT"? No, it's because Brady's defense let him down and because Eli made some hail-mary throws and other guys on the team stepped up and made plays.

"IT" is a BS tautology. It's magic. It's Santa Claus.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
So. When Brady was drafted, did have have "IT"? Did you watch him at Michigan and say to yourself "Wow. That guy has IT!" How about when Kurt Warner was drafted? How about Mark Sanchez?

Now, you're looking at a broken Schaub and say, "Well, he never had 'IT' because he never won any big games." Which is BS. He won a lot of big games and if he'd had a decent defense for most of his time here, he would have won a lot more. He's led drives to win games in the last seconds lots of times... only to leave a few seconds on the clock and have his defense let him down.

How much of "IT" did Brady have that 18-1 season? Not quite enough to beat Eli, huh? And why is that? Is it because of a lack of "IT" or because Eli had more of "IT"? No, it's because Brady's defense let him down and because Eli made some hail-mary throws and other guys on the team stepped up and made plays.

"IT" is a BS tautology. It's magic. It's Santa Claus.
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IT was a novel by Stephen King ... scary **** back in the day.
 
cstyle42 said:
Nope you assumed I'm making all about the "it" factor. It's not when evaluating every qb. It's just with Schaub it's a glaring weakness that plagues him. The other facets of his game was acceptable and understood by most to be average to good.
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Hey. You said:
Your mistake is not understanding that either a guy has the "it" factor or they don't.
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So tell me more about this magical "it" factor?

I suggest you go back and look at all the times over the years where Schaub put this team in a position to win and they lost.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Hey. You said:


So tell me more about this magical "it" factor?

I suggest you go back and look at all the times over the years where Schaub put this team in a position to win and they lost.
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Schaub had his time and tenure with the texans and he could not even lead this team to the game before the super bowl. What's funny is you got players like Derrick Ward who said the texans had a better team outside the qb position then the new york giants when they won the super bowl. I really don't have to explain anything Schaub's lack of success speaks for itself.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
So. When Brady was drafted, did have have "IT"? Did you watch him at Michigan and say to yourself "Wow. That guy has IT!" How about when Kurt Warner was drafted? How about Mark Sanchez?

Now, you're looking at a broken Schaub and say, "Well, he never had 'IT' because he never won any big games." Which is BS. He won a lot of big games and if he'd had a decent defense for most of his time here, he would have won a lot more. He's led drives to win games in the last seconds lots of times... only to leave a few seconds on the clock and have his defense let him down.

How much of "IT" did Brady have that 18-1 season? Not quite enough to beat Eli, huh? And why is that? Is it because of a lack of "IT" or because Eli had more of "IT"? No, it's because Brady's defense let him down and because Eli made some hail-mary throws and other guys on the team stepped up and made plays.

"IT" is a BS tautology. It's magic. It's Santa Claus.
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Well maybe Santa Claus can come to the Houston Texans and become the quarterback and break passing records throwing to all the raindeers and Rudolph the rednose raindeer can be mvp. Go Texans we are winning the superbowl.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Hey. You said:

So tell me more about this magical "it" factor?

I suggest you go back and look at all the times over the years where Schaub put this team in a position to win and they lost.
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You're fighting the good fight.

Schaub: 87 starts, 11 4th qtr. comebacks, 14 game winning drives.

That is very comparable to Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger and their 4 rings.

I love how these conversations become all the QB. Last I heard Brady was playing for a genious and Schaub was playing for a bunch of guys with rubber noses climbing out of a very small car. Odd that plays no part.
 
beerlover said:
I think he would be better served taking a year off & recharging his battery, season was brutal on him. :kubepalm:
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This season was brutal on the fans.

We weren't very well paid to watch the crap product that was put on the field.
 
infantrycak said:
You're fighting the good fight.

Schaub: 87 starts, 11 4th qtr. comebacks, 14 game winning drives.

That is very comparable to Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger and their 4 rings.
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I liked Schaub alot and the 2009 season he played QB at a championship level. IMHO

He hurt his foot and fell off the cliff and the rest was history.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
So. When Brady was drafted, did have have "IT"? Did you watch him at Michigan and say to yourself "Wow. That guy has IT!" How about when Kurt Warner was drafted? How about Mark Sanchez?

Now, you're looking at a broken Schaub and say, "Well, he never had 'IT' because he never won any big games." Which is BS. He won a lot of big games and if he'd had a decent defense for most of his time here, he would have won a lot more. He's led drives to win games in the last seconds lots of times... only to leave a few seconds on the clock and have his defense let him down.

How much of "IT" did Brady have that 18-1 season? Not quite enough to beat Eli, huh? And why is that? Is it because of a lack of "IT" or because Eli had more of "IT"? No, it's because Brady's defense let him down and because Eli made some hail-mary throws and other guys on the team stepped up and made plays.

"IT" is a BS tautology. It's magic. It's Santa Claus.
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:goodpost:

QFT :D
 
steelbtexan said:
I liked Schaub alot and the 2009 season he played QB at a championship level. IMHO

He hurt his foot and fell off the cliff and the rest was history.
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Yep, he was in the discussion for borderline elite, he and Kubiak kinda both lost it and that sunk the Texans for this year.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
So. When Brady was drafted, did have have "IT"? Did you watch him at Michigan and say to yourself "Wow. That guy has IT!" How about when Kurt Warner was drafted? How about Mark Sanchez?

Now, you're looking at a broken Schaub and say, "Well, he never had 'IT' because he never won any big games." Which is BS. He won a lot of big games and if he'd had a decent defense for most of his time here, he would have won a lot more. He's led drives to win games in the last seconds lots of times... only to leave a few seconds on the clock and have his defense let him down.

How much of "IT" did Brady have that 18-1 season? Not quite enough to beat Eli, huh? And why is that? Is it because of a lack of "IT" or because Eli had more of "IT"? No, it's because Brady's defense let him down and because Eli made some hail-mary throws and other guys on the team stepped up and made plays.

"IT" is a BS tautology. It's magic. It's Santa Claus.
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Really awesome post pn and while I agree "it" is a myth, i'm not sure I agree about the opposite end of the spectrum. Some of these guys are losers whom find a way to muck up success when its handed to them on a platter. Perhaps instead of chasing guys who have "it" start finding guys who aren't "shyte. " Our record would be substantially better if we just shot ourselves in the foot less often.
 
cstyle42 said:
Think what you think just keep buying tickets keep the faith lol
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The last tickets I purchased were in 1978 when 10 games were $140 for the season. I bought a pair and used exactly 2 tickets to one game. Not seeing the Texans in person does NOT disqualify me from seeing the Front office as it is and making a better assessment of it's talent level than the ordinary fan. It's because I understand Negotiation, Contracts and Finance. Not because I buy or do not buy a ticket.
 
cstyle42 said:
That's all Schaub was ever missing. The ability to make the right big play in the biggest moments when it really counted outside that he was a good system qb. The "it" factor measures that. Foster helped hide that as well as other players on offense. Schaub was not just bad he was horrible when it came to showing up big in a positive way in big games. Ultimately that makes or breaks most qb's in this league but Schaub ended his tenure here still throwing picks in big moments. If that's something to laugh at then whatever...
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The IT factor is mostly selective memory rather than an analysis.
 
Marshall said:
The IT factor is mostly selective memory rather than an analysis.
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In 2009 Steve Young said before the texans played the Eagles in Philadelphia on a monday night that Matt Schaub is never the reason Texans won games and when your quarterback is never the reason why your team wins that's a huge problem. Y'all stuck on a figure of speech at the end of the day Schaub doesn't have what it takes to lead a team to the super bowl and win. He never will win or get to the super bowl unless he is a backup like David Carr... it is what it is.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
So. When Brady was drafted, did have have "IT"? Did you watch him at Michigan and say to yourself "Wow. That guy has IT!" How about when Kurt Warner was drafted? How about Mark Sanchez?

Now, you're looking at a broken Schaub and say, "Well, he never had 'IT' because he never won any big games." Which is BS. He won a lot of big games and if he'd had a decent defense for most of his time here, he would have won a lot more. He's led drives to win games in the last seconds lots of times... only to leave a few seconds on the clock and have his defense let him down.

How much of "IT" did Brady have that 18-1 season? Not quite enough to beat Eli, huh? And why is that? Is it because of a lack of "IT" or because Eli had more of "IT"? No, it's because Brady's defense let him down and because Eli made some hail-mary throws and other guys on the team stepped up and made plays.

"IT" is a BS tautology. It's magic. It's Santa Claus.
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I really liked Brady in his last college game against Oklahoma. He had the it factor. I also liked Josh Hueppel in that game and thought he had the it factor. Applewhite had the IT factor too. The difference is Brady was able to improve his arm strength while on the bench. Belichick took the same chance late in the draft on Kingsbury, he was unable to improve his arm strength to an NFL level. What did all of these QB's have in common in college? They were very smart QB's.

Bridgewater remindsme of these guys with a little better arm coming out of college. If Bridgewater is going to become what Texan fans want him to be he's going to have to improve his arm strength. Can he? Yes Will he? Who knows.

As far as Brady goes he won a SB his 1st yr as a starter, moving his team 40 or so yds in the last 30 seconds to help win a Lombardi on the last play of the game. So yes, I think he has always had the it factor. Led his team on GW drives against the Panthers and the Eagles. With a little help from McNabb throwing up on his teammates shoes. He was a dropped Welker pass away from beating the Giants 2 yrs ago for another Lombardi.

Cant see why anybody would question wheter Brady has the it factor. The IT factor is nothing more than playing your best in big games, especially when the game is on the line.

Some can do it. Brady/Staubach/Montana/Elway. Some Cant, Kelly/McNabb/Moon/Everrett etc....
 
cstyle42 said:
In 2009 Steve Young said before the texans played the Eagles in Philadelphia on a monday night that Matt Schaub is never the reason Texans won games and when your quarterback is never the reason why your team wins that's a huge problem. Y'all stuck on a figure of speech at the end of the day Schaub doesn't have what it takes to lead a team to the super bowl and win. He never will win or get to the super bowl unless he is a backup like David Carr... it is what it is.
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Dude, why the hell are you even talking about Schaub?

He's toast. Done. Doesn't matter.

New Coach New Destiny!

Go Texans!
 
cstyle42 said:
In 2009 Steve Young said before the texans played the Eagles in Philadelphia on a monday night that Matt Schaub is never the reason Texans won games and when your quarterback is never the reason why your team wins that's a huge problem. Y'all stuck on a figure of speech at the end of the day Schaub doesn't have what it takes to lead a team to the super bowl and win. He never will win or get to the super bowl unless he is a backup like David Carr... it is what it is.
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And my point is that the pre-injury Schaub WAS a guy who was a reason our team won games and he WAS a guy who put us into a position to win more. You're looking at the Schaub of the past couple of seasons and saying he was a guy who could NEVER win a SB and ignoring the guy he was prior to that. And the guy he was prior to that was a guy who could have won SB teams if he had been in the right situation. And he was a guy who WAS in the right situation at the right time in 2011... until a QB sneak and a broken foot.

Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Trent Dilfer, Ben Roethlisberger, Brad Johnson... these guys are all guys who had to be in the right situation at the right time to win a SB. You could even include the 2nd year Tom Brady in there. Schaub, at his best, was one of those guys. The post-injury Schaub is not.

What I don't like is for people to re-write history and hate on a guy who's played and worked hard for this team and treat them like they're crap. Schaub was a really good QB... not a great QB and not a world-beater. But he wasn't a scrub.

Even Carr wasn't horrible his entire time here. It's really easy to get a case of selective memory and hate on Carr and say he was never anything but if you go back and check the games, that's not the case.
 
cstyle42 said:
In 2009 Steve Young said before the texans played the Eagles in Philadelphia on a monday night that Matt Schaub is never the reason Texans won games and when your quarterback is never the reason why your team wins that's a huge problem. Y'all stuck on a figure of speech at the end of the day Schaub doesn't have what it takes to lead a team to the super bowl and win. He never will win or get to the super bowl unless he is a backup like David Carr... it is what it is.
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So Steve Young is the FINAL WORD? I suppose he doesn't remember the TEAM he had around him, most had already gone to Superbowls, but HE has the IT factor? How arrogant.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
And my point is that the pre-injury Schaub WAS a guy who was a reason our team won games and he WAS a guy who put us into a position to win more. You're looking at the Schaub of the past couple of seasons and saying he was a guy who could NEVER win a SB and ignoring the guy he was prior to that. And the guy he was prior to that was a guy who could have won SB teams if he had been in the right situation. And he was a guy who WAS in the right situation at the right time in 2011... until a QB sneak and a broken foot.

Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Trent Dilfer, Ben Roethlisberger, Brad Johnson... these guys are all guys who had to be in the right situation at the right time to win a SB. You could even include the 2nd year Tom Brady in there. Schaub, at his best, was one of those guys. The post-injury Schaub is not.

What I don't like is for people to re-write history and hate on a guy who's played and worked hard for this team and treat them like they're crap. Schaub was a really good QB... not a great QB and not a world-beater. But he wasn't a scrub.

Even Carr wasn't horrible his entire time here. It's really easy to get a case of selective memory and hate on Carr and say he was never anything but if you go back and check the games, that's not the case.
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Excellent Post.:goodpost:
 
The Pencil Neck said:
And my point is that the pre-injury Schaub WAS a guy who was a reason our team won games and he WAS a guy who put us into a position to win more. You're looking at the Schaub of the past couple of seasons and saying he was a guy who could NEVER win a SB and ignoring the guy he was prior to that. And the guy he was prior to that was a guy who could have won SB teams if he had been in the right situation. And he was a guy who WAS in the right situation at the right time in 2011... until a QB sneak and a broken foot.

Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Trent Dilfer, Ben Roethlisberger, Brad Johnson... these guys are all guys who had to be in the right situation at the right time to win a SB. You could even include the 2nd year Tom Brady in there. Schaub, at his best, was one of those guys. The post-injury Schaub is not.

What I don't like is for people to re-write history and hate on a guy who's played and worked hard for this team and treat them like they're crap. Schaub was a really good QB... not a great QB and not a world-beater. But he wasn't a scrub.

Even Carr wasn't horrible his entire time here. It's really easy to get a case of selective memory and hate on Carr and say he was never anything but if you go back and check the games, that's not the case.
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Well said!
 
Marshall said:
So Steve Young is the FINAL WORD? I suppose he doesn't remember the TEAM he had around him, most had already gone to Superbowls, but HE has the IT factor? How arrogant.
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Steve Young didn't set a record for most consecutive interceptions thrown in games and he has a ring. He got the job done no matter you like it or not so his opinion is highly respected around the league.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
And my point is that the pre-injury Schaub WAS a guy who was a reason our team won games and he WAS a guy who put us into a position to win more. You're looking at the Schaub of the past couple of seasons and saying he was a guy who could NEVER win a SB and ignoring the guy he was prior to that. And the guy he was prior to that was a guy who could have won SB teams if he had been in the right situation. And he was a guy who WAS in the right situation at the right time in 2011... until a QB sneak and a broken foot.

Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Trent Dilfer, Ben Roethlisberger, Brad Johnson... these guys are all guys who had to be in the right situation at the right time to win a SB. You could even include the 2nd year Tom Brady in there. Schaub, at his best, was one of those guys. The post-injury Schaub is not.

What I don't like is for people to re-write history and hate on a guy who's played and worked hard for this team and treat them like they're crap. Schaub was a really good QB... not a great QB and not a world-beater. But he wasn't a scrub.

Even Carr wasn't horrible his entire time here. It's really easy to get a case of selective memory and hate on Carr and say he was never anything but if you go back and check the games, that's not the case.
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The other quarterbacks you mention were either elite or not elite but put in a situation where they could succeed easier by relying on the defense or their running game. The issue with Schaub is when the team was losing games or down by 14 to 28 points is when he played his best ball. When Schaub was finally put in a situation to win super bowls he was either hurt or literally choking under pressure of big games to the point where he couldn't be shielded by conservative or systematic gameplanning. In other words Schaub's biggest weakness was too big to be shielded to where he could win like Trent Dilfer or who ever else was a system qb. But go ahead and blame to offensive line, the coach, GM or then defense... do what we been doing since the 70's in Houston. When there is no pressure Schaub was always really good in his prime because there was nothing to play for but pride... under pressure especially playoffs he has always been what we know he is right now.
 
cstyle42 said:
When there is no pressure Schaub was always really good in his prime because there was nothing to play for but pride... under pressure especially playoffs he has always been what we know he is right now.
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I'm not disagreeing with your overall point, but how do you draw that conclusion about how Schaub performed in playoffs when he only ever played in two playoff games and won one of those two?
 
michaelm said:
I'm not disagreeing with your overall point, but how do you draw that conclusion about how Schaub performed in playoffs when he only ever played in two playoff games and won one of those two?
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This is my opinion. I've seen so many season games that were pressure games that he completely choked in I just knew in the playoffs he would be horrible. That Cincinnati game we are up 6-0 and he throws a pick 6. I was happy we won and the defense and Arian Foster showed up big to hide his inefficiencies but I knew then we weren't going pass the next game no matter who we played.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
The "IT" factor is BS. The "IT" factor is not a measurable...
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No, no... this it is the IT, brought from another thread...
Lord Bills said:
two most important things to look for in a franchise QB,

1, Is he good looking enough?

I cannot stress that enough. Have you ever seen an ugly ass quarterback win the superbowl? Be a consistently great quarterback year in year out? There's a reason for that. If you are handsome, you get the girl, you get the girl, guys look up to you and want to follow you. It is a integral part of being a leader.

Just look at all the legendary great champions who were the leaders of their team across all sports from basketball, tennis, olympics, soccer, formula one racing etc....

Its is a very strong common denominator. You have to look the part (and dress the part) to be the part.

2, Does he have a great cool sounding name?

Peyton Manning. Tom Brady. Joe Montana. John Elway. Drew Brees. Steve Young. Matt Schaub.

Who doesnt belong in that list? Name me a great quarterback that has a sorry, boring, ugly name that was consistently great.

Why do you think hollywood actors change their name? tom cruise wouldnt be tom cruise if he went with tomas malpohter. Olivia wilde would not be where she is today if she went with her real last name cockburn. Look att boxing superstar floyd mayweeather jr., he had to change his name from floyd sinclair to floyd mayweather to become money may. Sugar Ray Robinson wouuldnt be the greatest p4p #1 boxer of all time if he went with walkter smith.

Its karmic destiny to greatness if you have the right name.

If GMs just followed these two untapped supreme analytic criteria, they wouldnt get fired so much.

Its that easy and scientific.
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It's all about looks and name, fools. :clown:
 
cstyle42 said:
The other quarterbacks you mention were either elite or not elite but put in a situation where they could succeed easier by relying on the defense or their running game. The issue with Schaub is when the team was losing games or down by 14 to 28 points is when he played his best ball. When Schaub was finally put in a situation to win super bowls he was either hurt or literally choking under pressure of big games to the point where he couldn't be shielded by conservative or systematic gameplanning. In other words Schaub's biggest weakness was too big to be shielded to where he could win like Trent Dilfer or who ever else was a system qb. But go ahead and blame to offensive line, the coach, GM or then defense... do what we been doing since the 70's in Houston. When there is no pressure Schaub was always really good in his prime because there was nothing to play for but pride... under pressure especially playoffs he has always been what we know he is right now.
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Um... Isn't the bolded exactly what you want from a QB with the "IT" factor? You can't come back from a 14-28 point deficit unless the QB has the IT factor but the QB can only play offense. It's up to his defense to stop the other team from scoring more points. A QB that doesn't have the IT factor folds in those situations or gives up -- like Blaine Gabbert or Josh Freeman.

By the time he got a team around him, it was too late and I'm not going to blame the guy for getting a lisfranc injury from Fat Albert falling on his foot. If we're going to blame anyone for Schaub lacking the IT factor, it should be Smithiak because they couldn't find a Defense Coordinator that was worth a damn.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Um... Isn't the bolded exactly what you want from a QB with the "IT" factor? You can't come back from a 14-28 point deficit unless the QB has the IT factor but the QB can only play offense. It's up to his defense to stop the other team from scoring more points. A QB that doesn't have the IT factor folds in those situations or gives up -- like Blaine Gabbert or Josh Freeman.

By the time he got a team around him, it was too late and I'm not going to blame the guy for getting a lisfranc injury from Fat Albert falling on his foot. If we're going to blame anyone for Schaub lacking the IT factor, it should be Smithiak because they couldn't find a Defense Coordinator that was worth a damn.
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Yeah as long as the QB can finish that last drive to win the game and not lose close. Most of his stats in his good years were in situations where we were down by a lot and the pressure was not as hard.
 
cstyle42 said:
Steve Young didn't set a record for most consecutive interceptions thrown in games and he has a ring. He got the job done no matter you like it or not so his opinion is highly respected around the league.
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Congratulations. He took a well oiled machine put together by Walsh with Montana and didn't destroy it. I'm not comparing them as players, but his opinions are only slightly better than Joe Dirt.
 
cstyle42 said:
Yeah as long as the QB can finish that last drive to win the game and not lose close. Most of his stats in his good years were in situations where we were down by a lot and the pressure was not as hard.
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And if he finishes that last drive but leaves 45 seconds on the clock. And the defense allows the other team to score and win the game, who's that on? And if he puts the team in a position to win a couple of times in the last couple of minutes but the kicker misses relatively easy kicks, who's that on? Or how about when the QB is in a tied game and with 20 seconds left throws the ball to a guy to get us into FG position and the guy fumbles and then the other team marches down the field in 16 seconds and scores a TD to win the game with no time on the clock, Does that mean the QB doesn't have "IT"?

In his best year, that happened over and over and over again. It's very easy to forget that when you're just looking at wins and losses.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
And if he finishes that last drive but leaves 45 seconds on the clock. And the defense allows the other team to score and win the game, who's that on? And if he puts the team in a position to win a couple of times in the last couple of minutes but the kicker misses relatively easy kicks, who's that on? Or how about when the QB is in a tied game and with 20 seconds left throws the ball to a guy to get us into FG position and the guy fumbles and then the other team marches down the field in 16 seconds and scores a TD to win the game with no time on the clock, Does that mean the QB doesn't have "IT"?

In his best year, that happened over and over and over again. It's very easy to forget that when you're just looking at wins and losses.
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Every game lost is not literally the qb's fault but no matter how the team wins the qb ironically gets the most credit because he is the leader... it's a huge responsibility. Schaub had his chances where he could have done more but it wasn't enough. The Texans tried to make everything perfect around him and they got close to doing that. At the end of the day when it mattered most again Schaub didn't get it done. I wish his teammates could have played more perfect for him but it didn't happen. I also hate that he wasn't given more control of the offense earlier in his career but wait when Kubiak was gone he finally got it and again in big moments he threw picks. I don't make injury excuses for guys but it's not even about the foot injury... it's more about showing up big in a positive way consistently in crucial moments of the game moreso in the playoffs. Schaub didn't show that but was quick to call out the team when he didn't... but the QB is the leader so he needed to set the example with more game winning drives on a more consistent pace.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
And if he finishes that last drive but leaves 45 seconds on the clock. And the defense allows the other team to score and win the game, who's that on? And if he puts the team in a position to win a couple of times in the last couple of minutes but the kicker misses relatively easy kicks, who's that on? Or how about when the QB is in a tied game and with 20 seconds left throws the ball to a guy to get us into FG position and the guy fumbles and then the other team marches down the field in 16 seconds and scores a TD to win the game with no time on the clock, Does that mean the QB doesn't have "IT"?

In his best year, that happened over and over and over again. It's very easy to forget that when you're just looking at wins and losses.
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It would probably be easier to just go pick up your guitar and learn all of the Mahavishnu Orchestra guitar solos than have this argument.
 
DBCooper said:
It would probably be easier to just go pick up your guitar and learn all of the Mahavishnu Orchestra guitar solos than have this argument.
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I've already learned all of the Mahavishnu Orchestra guitar solos.

Well.

All of the ORIGINAL Mahavishnu Orchestra guitar solos.
 
DBCooper said:
That's impressive!
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:)

I was joking.

Back in the mid-70's, when I was 14-15 and I'd learned several guitar solos (Stairway, Jessica, etc.), I made a vow that I wouldn't learn any more guitar solos because I didn't want my style overly influenced by other players. I was a huge Frank Zappa, Bill Nelson, and John McLaughlin freak at the time.

But I listened to some songs (especially Mahavishnu Orchestra) so much that what I "hear" and try to translate to the fretboard is extremely influenced by McLaughlin. I never sat down and picked the solos off the albums, though.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
:)

I was joking.

Back in the mid-70's, when I was 14-15 and I'd learned several guitar solos (Stairway, Jessica, etc.), I made a vow that I wouldn't learn any more guitar solos because I didn't want my style overly influenced by other players. I was a huge Frank Zappa, Bill Nelson, and John McLaughlin freak at the time.

But I listened to some songs (especially Mahavishnu Orchestra) so much that what I "hear" and try to translate to the fretboard is extremely influenced by McLaughlin. I never sat down and picked the solos off the albums, though.
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lol.

Cool, that's how I am too.

Can't seem to play the same thing twice, even if I try.
 
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