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Mario's progress this season

I always preferred that we take Reggie over Mario.

Perhaps Mario's sack numbers are "gimmies". So what? What has happened is clear, teams are running away from our injured rookie pass rushing end on runs and doubling him on passes. That sounds to me like he's changing the other team's game plan. Who else on the Texans can say the same? DeMeco, Dayne and maybe Andre. The same folks dissing Mario for poor stats are largely the ones talking about VY's bottom 5 passing stats being irrelevant because of how he "changes the game".

So DeMeco is a better rookie than Mario - OK, so what? They're both Top 10 talents, making it a little hard to grouse about our drafting decisions.
 
Texans_Chick said:
That is an exaggeration. link

I am not saying Peppers and Williams play in a similar way, but their college stats are very similar. If you look at the negatives about Peppers coming out of the draft, they are also similar to Williams. Like Peppers and Kearse, Williams is a physical freak. Unlike both of them, Williams came out of school as a true junior and not a redshirt.

Peppers went to play on a line with other good players and for a defensive minded coach in Fox who loves defensive linemen.

Williams has played a good portion of the season in a new defensive scheme with a bunch of guys who are street free agents. He is the only defensive lineman for the Texans who will have started every game. link, with goofy video.
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I think that is a very good point. Mario is playing on a line with street FA DT and with an injured foot. Was his production disappointing this season? Sure. Are there legitimate excuses for his production? Absolutely. Considering his injury and lack of peer talent coupled with his (in)experience I would almost go as far as to guarantee that we have merely seen a shell of Mario Williams. Hopefully we can pick up a monster DT or 2 in the draft or FA, let Mario heal up over the offseason, and see what he is really about with a year of NFL experience and some others talents on the line with him.
 
Well all I know is that I watched him use his hands much better last sunday. He's getting the tackel off his body. That killed one rumor. He is coachable. The monster is just now becoming self aware. Be patient.
 
Mario IMO had a subpar season. Only 4.5 sacks, not many tackles, he seems to just want to bull rush and gets taken 1 on 1 at times. I kept hearing this guy was agile for his size but I have not seen it.

BUT, I see him being dominant because he is playing next to 2 DTs who came off the street, and he will have a year Experience to go along with legit DTs that teams will have to respect.

Right now, our Front 4 are horrible (and no disrespect those guys are playing hard). No one can get pressure on the QB unless we blitz
 
Sarg01 said:
I always preferred that we take Reggie over Mario.

Perhaps Mario's sack numbers are "gimmies". So what? What has happened is clear, teams are running away from our injured rookie pass rushing end on runs and doubling him on passes. That sounds to me like he's changing the other team's game plan. Who else on the Texans can say the same? DeMeco, Dayne and maybe Andre. The same folks dissing Mario for poor stats are largely the ones talking about VY's bottom 5 passing stats being irrelevant because of how he "changes the game".

So DeMeco is a better rookie than Mario - OK, so what? They're both Top 10 talents, making it a little hard to grouse about our drafting decisions.
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I appreciate the sentiments Sarg01. I agree entirely, Mario's effectiveness doesn't show in stats but in impact on the whole defense.

I also agree that we had a very solid draft day.
 
GuerillaBlack said:
Just imagine if we picked up Dwight Freeney from Indy this offseason. Which side would teams run the ball to?
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That's easy. Towards Freeney, one of the worst DEs in the league against the run. He's like Peek - so totally focused on getting to the QB that he can't keep containment.
 
GuerillaBlack said:
Just imagine if we picked up Dwight Freeney from Indy this offseason. Which side would teams run the ball to?
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Freeney's side easily. Hopefully TJ can be a penetrator that at least gets somewhat a push, forcing QB's to shift around the pocket. That's how sacks can come. Offensive tackles give up the outside, thinking the QB is inside.
 
I'm going to give Mario a grade of INCOMPLETE this season due to his injury. However, he better show some more pass rush skills next year.
 
TheOgre said:
I'm going to give Mario a grade of INCOMPLETE this season due to his injury. However, he better show some more pass rush skills next year.
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I would give Mario a B to B+ given the impact of having FP of the foot and injuries to the linemen around him. He has shown the skills for which he was drafted and his technique is improving. With healthy feet, I'm willing to bet you the pass rush will be there along with stuffing the run. He will also catch more quarterbacks and running backs from behind.
 
I like the Mario pick. He and Demeco Ryans are a lot like Carr and Johnson. Surrounded by sketchy players. A good DT and TJ being healthy, not to mention a year of experience for a VERY young player, will do wonders for Mario. I have been most impressed with his speed. I think him not shedding blocks quickly is a symptom of being a rookie. He seems to use the OT as a shield until he knows where the ball is going. He HAS to get something besides his speed/bull rush, though. He's blown containment several times the last few weeks as teams do a little delay handoff right through the space Mario vacated. With some healthy wheels, he should be a tremendous asset next year. Maybe approach double-digits sacks. DL, OL and DB's in the draft. Anything else would be a crime. Well, maybe another LB to go with Ryans. That man is the next Mike Singletary.
 
DenverBorn said:
That was the knock on VY, among other things - that it would take a few years for him to develop (ha).
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He still has not developed as a passer! He is this generations Randall Cunningham who was also called "The Michael Jordan of Football". Let's see what VY does next year. I think he will have a slump next year as Mario flourishes.:marionaner:
 
Sarg01 said:
That's easy. Towards Freeney, one of the worst DEs in the league against the run. He's like Peek - so totally focused on getting to the QB that he can't keep containment.
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This is what I'm waiting for:

Williams gets into the backfield early, but doesn't know if the hand-off was real or a fake--so, he tackles the RB with one arm and the QB with the other. Three players hit the turf. Turns out it was a fake, the QB had the ball, and it is now rolling toward the sideline.

I believe Mario could actually do this and it is symbolic of what is great about him. If he can start getting to the QB, when healthy and all that, he will be a holy terror against BOTH the run and the pass, unlike Freeney who's having nightmares about Ron Dayne right about now.
 
all I know is i watched him against Indy throw one tackle to the ground and knock the other one out of the game on the same play....nuff said
 
I wonder if the Mario pick will still be a major issue in 2010.

I understand the logic of picking Mario. At draft time, we thought Davis would return, McNair was committed to keeping Carr at all costs, and the year before, our D-Line sucked, so they tried to fix the weakest link. The draft is a crap shoot, all you can do is take a shot and hope. DeMeco looked OK in the draft, but I don't think anyone realized how good he would turn out to be.

Personally, I think Mario is catching on to life in the NFL and will be a real force next year once he gets healthy. Being at the mercy of Network TV I can't focus on him, but it seemed that he was getting double or even tripled a lot and the other teams were running away from him. I look at his situation like I do Dunta, he needs some help on the other side or in the middle. One more stud on the D-Line and fix the secondary, and I think our D will strike terror in the hearts of the oppisition.
 
I'd be willing to bet that Indy would take Williams for Freeney straight up. And I wouldn't take that deal for the life of me. Williams will be a force to reckon with for years to come and will be the complete DE. He's already having an impact on teams game plans and this will only increase as time goes by.

With that said.....I can't wait to see a fully healthy Mario next year with a stud DT next to him.
 
You mean the "golden child"? :mario:

...The routine has worked out for Williams, though. He is the only starter on the defensive line not to land on injured reserve this season. On Sunday, Williams will become the only defensive lineman who has been on the active roster for every game.

He hasn't received many notes of congratulations from his teammates, who enjoy ribbing him more.

"I'm always getting talked about for not practicing — 'the Golden Child,' and all this other (stuff)," Williams said, rolling his eyes. "That's what N.D. calls me."

Overhearing Williams' remarks in the locker room, Kalu defended the name he bestowed on the 21-year-old rookie.

"I'm 31 and I take all his reps during the week, and then he plays on Sunday," Kalu said...
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... and an interesting rest of the article discussing the defense....

...The Texans haven't needed Williams to shoulder the entire load of the line, though. Thanks to general manager Rick Smith, the Texans have found players on the waiver wire capable of replacing starting tackles Seth Payne and Travis Johnson.

Lional Dalton (now on injured reserve), Cedric Killings, Thomas Johnson and Anthony Maddox were street free agents when the Texans called. They quickly became critical components in a defense that has improved despite the injuries....

...After Maddox was released by Jacksonville in September, the Texans signed him to the practice squad. He was added to the active roster on Oct. 10 and made his first start three weeks later against the Tennessee Titans.

"I was scared at first, I can't lie," said Maddox, who has 28 tackles and one sack. "I was scared. I was like, 'Man, I can't blow this.' "

Maddox hardly blew it. He has played so well he likely will be a fixture in the rotation next year.

"I think Maddox has been special," coach Gary Kubiak said. "I think we found a player that has got a chance to be a heck of a player."

With five defensive linemen on injured reserve, the Texans will have to make decisions about who stays and who goes in the offseason. Teammates are rallying around the newcomers....
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The difference between Mario & Julius Peppers, and Jason Taylor, Schoebel, etc.. etc... is that Mario is our first piece.

Aaron Schoebel had a great year, playing in front of TakeoSpikes, and London Fletcher... then the Left DE spot also racked up 11.5 sacks.

Jullius Peppers... has Mike Ruckers on the other end.

Jason Taylor.... has Vonnie Holiday in the middle, ZachThomas behind him & Kevin Carter on the other side. Miami's defensive line has accounted for 38.5 sacks.... 13.5 belonging to Jason Taylor.

Our defensive line has accounted for 15.5...... with 4.5 belonging to Mario... 5 for Babin, and the only pressure up the middle is being applied by Demeco Ryans...

And we all know Mario isn't a pass rusher...... he can be.... we think he will be one of the best.... but that isn't his game. as a rookie he leads our defensive linemen with 45 tackles..... the closest to him, is Weaver with 35.

Mario is the best player on our defensive line... a 21 year old rookie...... I think we got what we paid for.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I don't know about that....


Mario was definitely top three talent.....
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Who ever gave me a negative rep for My sig....

I just wanted you to know that I lost a bet....to a Titan fan....

Thats why I'm sporting it....


Oh and your negative rep took away 1 whole point....
 
mario showed some flashes this season... a bunch of them probably 3 or 4 plays a game where you would go "Wow that could be a probowl player" but with his injuries we cant really see what he is fully capable of... maybe those bunches will be every down when healthy
 
t_flare said:
mario showed some flashes this season... a bunch of them probably 3 or 4 plays a game where you would go "Wow that could be a probowl player" but with his injuries we cant really see what he is fully capable of... maybe those bunches will be every down when healthy
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Even with the injury, he has more tackles than anyone else on the DL..... beating the closest player by 10.... & he is second on the team in sacks...

To me, that shows what kind of talent we have on our DL....
 
TheOgre said:
I'm going to give Mario a grade of INCOMPLETE this season due to his injury. However, he better show some more pass rush skills next year.
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It's funny that people predicted Bush and Young to get injured because the way they run the ball in college and in the NFL ,yet Mario Williams is the player suffering from an injury.:(
 
thunderkyss said:
Even with the injury, he has more tackles than anyone else on the DL..... beating the closest player by 10.... & he is second on the team in sacks...

To me, that shows what kind of talent we have on our DL....
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Yea. Hopefully next year Mario healthy will require so much attention from the other team that guys like TJ and Maddox can start producing more.

Right now Mario is controllable....he can be controlled with one blocker (most of the time) and dominated with two (I think this has alot to do with the injury). When he gets to the point where he can only be controlled with two blockers...our DL will be a force.
 
MrMeToo said:
It's funny that people predicted Bush and Young to get injured because the way they run the ball in college and in the NFL ,yet Mario Williams is the player suffering from an injury.:(
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Guess that is a little ironic, but what Williams has isn't exactly from getting hit and hurt or something. He just has foot problems that shouldn't be a long term problem.
 
It is a good thing Mario is playing hurt, it gives y'all an extra year to try to justify this huge mistake of a draft pick...

He will never ever be worth either the money he is getting paid or the #1 overall pick...

Imagine "what should have been" instead of the reality of what the Texans did to us...
 
It is moronic that Mario is still out on the field when he is risking serious injury/ surgery with every snap.

Plantar fasciitis requires weeks of rest - we've been out of the playoff hunt for a long time. Why continue to risk the number one pick with serious damage?
 
Because the doctors have told him and the team that it won't get any worse to keep playing on it, it just won't get any better. Why would you pull him out?? Let him fight through a injury like this if he wants, it will make him a tougher player and make him rely more on technique then his power and speed, it actually works out somewhat well for him. Him playing right now is invaluable experience for his future years in the NFL let the kid play and keep impacting the offensive game planning of the other teams that we play.
 
GrandPa said:
It is a good thing Mario is playing hurt, it gives y'all an extra year to try to justify this huge mistake of a draft pick...

He will never ever be worth either the money he is getting paid or the #1 overall pick...

Imagine "what should have been" instead of the reality of what the Texans did to us...
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Just shut up already.

Do you spend all your time thinking about things that happened years ago and constructing alternate realities in your mind where things turned out better for you? If you do, then you should stop. And at the same time, stop doing it for the Texans. The Texans are going to be fine. Mario Williams is going to be fine.

There is no way to know if we had drafted any other player with the first pick that they would have performed like they did in the situation they're in now because every situation is different. If we had drafted VY first (and I don't believe anyone was ever seriously considering taking him with the first pick), he probably would have sat out this entire year. Maybe the first two. Would you have been coming up excuses for why we were paying him 1st round money in that case or would you have been whining like you are now? If we had drafted RB first, he definitely would not have performed as well as he did with the Saints and he wasn't doing ANYTHING for the Saints until really late in the season. He's very lucky that he's had McAllister to take the majority of the carries. He's basically only had 1 or 2 good games even though Payton has been pulling out all the stops to try to make him successful. If we had drafted him and he was getting 3 ypc, would you be whining about paying him the big bucks?

We "should" have drafted Demeco Ryans with the first pick but we got him in the second round. So be happy with that.
 
Well, from my perspective he hasn't improved that much over the last half of the season. You can attribute that to his being injured and missing out so much practice, but he that's what it is. From the Giant's game to this game he hasn't shown anything new. He still relies to much on the bull rush, gives his numbers to the linemen and isn't getting to the QB enough. All that being said he should be better next yr. much better. With practice and full health he should really show improvement. However this season he didn't show much progress in the second half.
 
GrandPa said:
It is a good thing Mario is playing hurt, it gives y'all an extra year to try to justify this huge mistake of a draft pick...

He will never ever be worth either the money he is getting paid or the #1 overall pick...

Imagine "what should have been" instead of the reality of what the Texans did to us...
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God, will it ever end?
 
dat_boy_yec said:
Well, from my perspective he hasn't improved that much over the last half of the season. You can attribute that to his being injured and missing out so much practice, but he that's what it is. From the Giant's game to this game he hasn't shown anything new. He still relies to much on the bull rush, gives his numbers to the linemen and isn't getting to the QB enough. All that being said he should be better next yr. much better. With practice and full health he should really show improvement. However this season he didn't show much progress in the second half.
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Did you see the strip of the RB in the Indy game? That was a bull rush? I disagree that he did not improve, but that is just an opinion. Look at the little things, he got better, not at the speed he would have had he been able to practice, but he improved mentally.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
We all know a first year players worth given the contract they sign is a multi year contract. :rolleyes:

He has improved, he has made a difference, he has played injured and he has garnered respect from other coaches and players in the NFL. And he has done all of that before he turns 22. We got a player who has a high ceiling and will now have 16 NFL games to build on this off season.
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yea what he said!
 
While I'm not ready to declare Mario a bust just yet. If he performs like this next year, then I will say he's a bust.

I expect more from the No. 1 overall pick then what I've seen out of David and now Mario.
 
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