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Mario's progress this season

Sportsfan

Sportsfan

Rookie
What is everyone's opinion on how Mario did this year and what his future holds and his chance of becoming a dominating pass rusher?

In my humble opinion he didn't perform consistenly like the #1 overall pick.
He did show some flashes of dominance and power, no doubt. I also know that he is dealing w/a foot condition and is still making a difference.

I found this scouting report on the NFL site and found this part interesting.

Positives: Great size (6-foot-7 and 295 pounds). ... Superior speed and athleticism. ... Excellent anticipation of the snap and quickness off the ball allow him to win most battles on his first step. ... Outstanding closing speed. ... Excellent footwork and change-of-direction skills. ... Superb ball instincts. ... Shows equal dominance rushing the passer or stopping the run. ... Big hitter.

Negatives: Despite tremendously long arms, needs to work at getting better separation from blockers. ... Must improve technique rather than mostly relying on running around blockers.
Click to expand...

Everytime i've watched Mario, he still seems to have this problem of shedding blockers quickly and making a move.
What's your opinions on this aspect of his game?
Discuss...
 
The best thing about Mario may be that he is a weakside DE who NOBODY wants to run at. If I ran anywhere near him, he'd break both my arms while stripping the ball from me with one hand. Whether or not he will turn out to be the great pass rusher that we hope remains to be seen. He's a rookie DE with a temporary foot problem. What else is there to say?

Oh, one other thing. I think when and if Mario does get a lot of sacks, he's going to cause a buttload of fumbles. The way he tackles is like an arm restraint. Both the QB's arms come slinging straight down to his sides and the ball goes bouncing it's own merry way. Let's hope he gets to 'em quite often next year. :marionaner:
 
The best thing about Mario was that he was willing to play with pain/injury and didn't become a complete liability. That bodes well for his work ethic and his athletic ability in general. I don't think we ever saw a healthy Mario this year. Here is to hoping that we finally get to open our Christmas present from Mario a year later once he gets healthy.

Put a Gaines Adams opposite him on the DL or 'The Tree' Branch at DT alongside him and we could go into hyperspace regarding our DL production. Maybe Branch's work ethic would rub off on T.Johnson at DT.
 
I think he's fine, just not worth the first pick in the draft. I'm guessing we could have found comparable talent in later rounds.
 
More like a mid-fourth rounder - Bobby and Gary were idiots for taking this guy number one overall and let's not mention how poorly they did with their other overall number one pick...
 
I want to see how he does when he is healthy. He had 4.5 sacks through the first 8-9 games. He hasn't had any since he got injured. He has still had an impact against the run though.

Is he worth the 1st overall selection? Not at this point.

Will he be? We won't know for another 2-3 years.
 
DenverBorn said:
I think he's fine, just not worth the first pick in the draft. I'm guessing we could have found comparable talent in later rounds.
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We all know a first year players worth given the contract they sign is a multi year contract. :rolleyes:

He has improved, he has made a difference, he has played injured and he has garnered respect from other coaches and players in the NFL. And he has done all of that before he turns 22. We got a player who has a high ceiling and will now have 16 NFL games to build on this off season.
 
I think he's improved quite a bit. It's harder to judge a D-lineman from most other positions, but I think he'll end up being the dominant guy we expected from him. I can't wait to see him next season with a year under his belt and two healthy feet.
 
I think he will be fine. He has definitly had flashes of what he can be. The speed and size this guy has is amazing!!! I seen him last week make a play on Addai that made me go WOW!!! Unfortunatly he will always be compared to pick #2 and #3. It is unfair to him, but i can't wait until Mario is healthy and sacks the #3 pick making him fumble and leave the game!! (Not end his carreer, but knock him out the game!!!) I know, wishful thinking, but anything can happen any given Sunday!!!
 
Here's where this year's 6 Pro Bowl DE's were drafted:

Jason Taylor 3rd round # 73 - 1997
Aaron Schobel 2nd round # 46 - 2001
Derrick Burgess 3rd round #63 - 2001
Julius Peppers 1st round #2 - 2002
Will Smith 1st round # 18 - 2004
Aaron Kampman 5th round # 156 - 2002

Now if you are SURE that Mario Williams is going to become a Julius Peppers or a Jevon Kearse, maybe you pick him number 1. But there was NOTHING in his college career to make one sure he'd be that good.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/positions/DE
 
TexanLen said:
I think he will be fine. He has definitly had flashes of what he can be. The speed and size this guy has is amazing!!! I seen him last week make a play on Addai that made me go WOW!!! Unfortunatly he will always be compared to pick #2 and #3. It is unfair to him, but i can't wait until Mario is healthy and sacks the #3 pick making him fumble and leave the game!! (Not end his carreer, but knock him out the game!!!) I know, wishful thinking, but anything can happen any given Sunday!!!
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VY will blow my Mario more often than Mario will sack him - count on it!

Why shouldn't he be compared to the # 2 & # 3 pick as the # 1 pick he is supposed to be better, but he never will be...
 
DenverBorn said:
Here's where this year's 6 Pro Bowl DE's were drafted:

Jason Taylor 3rd round # 73 - 1997
Aaron Schobel 2nd round # 46 - 2001
Derrick Burgess 3rd round #63 - 2001
Julius Peppers 1st round #2 - 2002
Will Smith 1st round # 18 - 2004
Aaron Kampman 5th round # 156 - 2002

Now if you are SURE that Mario Williams is going to become a Julius Peppers or a Jevon Kearse, maybe you pick him number 1. But there was NOTHING in his college career to make one sure he'd be that good.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/positions/DE
Click to expand...

3 of those 6 are in the Pro Bowl for the first time. Development is an important variable when considering future production.
 
DenverBorn said:
Here's where this year's 6 Pro Bowl DE's were drafted:

Jason Taylor 3rd round # 73 - 1997
Aaron Schobel 2nd round # 46 - 2001
Derrick Burgess 3rd round #63 - 2001
Julius Peppers 1st round #2 - 2002
Will Smith 1st round # 18 - 2004
Aaron Kampman 5th round # 156 - 2002

Now if you are SURE that Mario Williams is going to become a Julius Peppers or a Jevon Kearse, maybe you pick him number 1. But there was NOTHING in his college career to make one sure he'd be that good.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/positions/DE
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are there any guarantees with anybody? you dont spend a number one pick on a RB/WR who doesnt even see the lions share of his teams carries. bush's season was REALLY pedestrian until the last three weeks and i'll just head off everybody (since i'm a #10 hater and all) and admit that VY has been great this year. even with Bush's latest hot spell, i still take mario and try and get alan branch in 2007 to chew up blockers for #90 and DeMeco.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
3 of those 6 are in the Pro Bowl for the first time. Development is an important variable when considering future production.
Click to expand...

right, but when you use the FIRST pick in the draft on someone, theoretically you should have less patience. My recollection was that drafting Mario was more about winning in 2006, not in 2009. That was the knock on VY, among other things - that it would take a few years for him to develop (ha). Now it's all about giving Mario the opportunity to develop. If we wanted to draft a DE and give him a few years to develop, we probably could have drafted someone in the middle rounds. Or use the $54 mm (or whatever it was) on a free agent.
 
DenverBorn said:
right, but when you use the FIRST pick in the draft on someone, theoretically you should have less patience. My recollection was that drafting Mario was more about winning in 2006, not in 2009. That was the knock on VY, among other things - that it would take a few years for him to develop (ha). Now it's all about giving Mario the opportunity to develop. If we wanted to draft a DE and give him a few years to develop, we probably could have drafted someone in the middle rounds. Or use the $54 mm (or whatever it was) on a free agent.
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Sure. Take a look at the cap after we extended Carr and there was no question in my mind where we were going with the first pick if a trade out did not occur.
 
I will admit it Mario was not worth the number 1 pick, we could have still got him with additional picks. Will he become a superstar? I will say yes but you can't put it on him it takes help on the defensive line to make him better. With all the injuries on the DL we will not know right now how good he really is. I will state this fact he have made us into a better defensive unit. So why we may have reached to early for him, he will be the cornerstone for us having a dominating defense in the future.
 
When I ask myseld about Mario I keep on coming back the Bob Whitfield quote after the Giants game...

Quote:
Giants offensive tackle Bob Whitfield, a 15-year veteran and former first-round pick by Atlanta, had this to say about Mario Williams: "The son of a gun is almost inhuman out there for how big and thick and solid he is. And I caught it firsthand because I said to myself, `Don't give the young kid a sack.' But I don't call it a sack when he actually dislocates your whole left side of your body when he hit me. It was almost like he needed to have a penalty for tearing up an old man. I actually told him, `Slow it down, young fellow.' He's strong. He's big. He's got it. He's going to be a force to be reckoned with."

I am happy with the effort and toughness he is showing, and without that strip of Addai in the Colts game would we have won it??

I love the Mario pick and can't wait to see him next year older, wiser and fully fit.
 
In that case, no rookie is even close to being worth 60 million. This isn't basketball where one player can turn a franchise around.
 
dtran04 said:
In that case, no rookie is even close to being worth 60 million. This isn't basketball where one player can turn a franchise around.
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Oh I think there are many examples where one player makes a huge difference. Peyton Manning. Drew Brees. LaDanian Tomlinson. Vince Young
 
Obviously Mario's play has been hampered by the foot problem but he has fought through it and played well,not great but well.I think he has the potential to be great.My guess is that three to four years down the road, him being the number 1 pick wont look like a bad choice at all.
 
Worthy of #1? Not sure, but it is what it is. We can cry all we want for VY, Bush, or anyone else for that matter. It isn't going to change anything.

VY is good, but i think he is overated. His team has won games, but not all because of him. He is a rookie and still has lots of learning to do. Bush is a good player, and i think he will be great some day. The draft is a crap shoot. yeah, maybe the Texans made a mistake with the 1st pick, but look at DeMeco Ryans, Charles Spencer, Owen Daniels, and Wali Lundy picks. Not too bad!!! Mario Williams isn't a BAD pick, just a very questionable #1.

I know this is off a bit, but i wonder if Green Bay or any other team who took a LB in the 1st round want to rethink their picks when they could have had DeMeco?
 
Was AJ Hawk a better prospect than Mario Williams or Vince Young??? because if the Texans had taken Reggie Bush thats who the Saints would have taken at #2...so in comparison, Demeco Ryans would have been taken 31 picks later yet put up better numbers....same comparison can be made for Mario vs. other DE's this year like Tamba Hali etc etc...but the fact remains that Houston wanted to get a deal done before the draft with their player...and they couldnt reach a deal with Reggie, they didnt want Vince Young and Mario signed and therefor was the selection...is he worth 60 million dollars? Nope, but is any player? As somebody said it is what it is...his impact on the defense this year has been good, not great...but he was the youngest player in his draft class, playing a difficult position....give him time before anyone passes judgement...
 
TexanLen said:
Worthy of #1? Not sure, but it is what it is. We can cry all we want for VY, Bush, or anyone else for that matter. It isn't going to change anything.

VY is good, but i think he is overated. His team has won games, but not all because of him. He is a rookie and still has lots of learning to do. Bush is a good player, and i think he will be great some day. The draft is a crap shoot. yeah, maybe the Texans made a mistake with the 1st pick, but look at DeMeco Ryans, Charles Spencer, Owen Daniels, and Wali Lundy picks. Not too bad!!! Mario Williams isn't a BAD pick, just a very questionable #1.

I know this is off a bit, but i wonder if Green Bay or any other team who took a LB in the 1st round want to rethink their picks when they could have had DeMeco?
Click to expand...

VY is overrated...I wonder what you think of David Carr, the #1 pick of his class...ooopps.:tease:
 
DenverBorn said:
Oh I think there are many examples where one player makes a huge difference. Peyton Manning. Drew Brees. LaDanian Tomlinson. Vince Young
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But take a look at what most of those guys did their first year. Not so much. Especially Brees. Manning led his team to a 3-13 season; he had a lot of yards and TD's but a lot of picks, too. VY has had a great first year but frankly, I don't think most people thought he was anything other than a project going into the season.

People like to say that the 1st pick shouldn't be a project but that's bull. EVERY rookie should be viewed as a project. When you consider the number of #1 overall picks that haven't lived up to the hype, you really shouldn't place a lot of emphasis on getting the #1 pick. Carson Palmer, a #1 pick, really benefitted from not being thrown immediately into the fray and being treated as a bit of a project.

I think Mario has shown flashes of being a premier DE. Not much of a pass rusher, yet, but a great player against the run. I've seen him make some insanely good plays. I think he was a great pick and he's going to be a great player for us for a long time. I think it was a good pick. In retrospect, maybe we should have gone with Vince. But seeing as how 99.9% of the people in the NFL thought he was going to be a project, I don't see how you could say we should have gone with VY with the first pick if you don't think people should take projects with the #1 overall pick.
 
I'd like to see the MW we saw against the Giants for those two plays where he and Meco sacked Eli, the same amount of passion, and the same amount of just general butt-kicking all the time from him. Those plays, to me, seems to be an indicator that he does have abilities to play.

Obviously his stats don't support that he was worthy of the #1 overall pick. Half of his sacks have come from basically flopping on the fallen QB. I can respect the fact that he's been hampered by a foot injury, but I would really expect more dominance from a guy his size. He's gotten good run from opposing coaches and the opponent obviously doesn't try to run to his side as much as the other, but I would like to see MW just break some OL jaws and get to the QB and inflict pain like I think he can. When I see shots of him he's incredibly daunting physically and I wish that he could translate that into killing the opponent.

I'm hoping that what everyone is saying is true, that he's a project and that he's raw. Because at this point he hasn't proven to be worth the #1 overall and the millions of dollars per year. I do look forward to him and Meco over the next couple of years because they could well be the heart of the best defense in the NFL should we add a couple of more pieces. Championships are built on defense and I think that we do indeed have the building blocks as long as MW improves his technique and Meco continues doing what he's done all year long.
 
Not to say there is a direct cause and effect - but the explanation for drafting Mario was that we needed to improve our defense in order to beat the Colts.

Last Sunday we beat the Colts for the first time.
 
Number19 said:
Not to say there is a direct cause and effect - but the explanation for drafting Mario was that we needed to improve our defense in order to beat the Colts.

Last Sunday we beat the Colts for the first time.
Click to expand...

Our offense is what beat the Colts last Sunday. Great offensive game plan by the Texans. Indianapolis had 6 possessions - 4 scores, 1 fumble and 1 punt. Give Mario the appropriate kudos for the fumble but it wasn't the defense that won last Sunday's game. It was a total ball control offense. Thank goodness Manning fell down on third down on the possession that resulted in a FG, otherwise that drive would likely have resulted in a TD as well.

My whole issue with the "project" issue is the hypocrisy of it all. We didn't draft Vince in part because he was a "project" and the team wants to win NOW. Yet the guy we did draft is also a "project", and we're now supposed to give him the time we weren't willing to give Vince.
 
Mario was a great #1 pick. He's only 22, will have played in 20 NFL games, with at least 10 more years of upside. Coaches screwed up by moving him around too much early on, this was overwhelming to the young man. Leave him at one spot and let him master it. Even with a foot injury, he continues to draw double teams. Give him some help on the line next year and you'll see him break out even more. He comes out next year a little stronger, more confident, and with more experience.

Reggie Bush wanted $30MM guaranteed. prior guaranteed amount was $24MM (I think). If I was McNair, I would have passed on him too. Think about this, where is the upside on RB? He is as fast as we are ever going to see him. I don't see any posts about his several sub-par performances that would justify his $60MM salary. I think we have seen the best of RB this year. It's downhill from here. (besides, I think that a #1 RB has never taken his team to the superbowl)...

VY hasn't seen any sophisticated defenses yet. You don't see them until the playoffs, when each week you see the best defenses. Which is another case in point. The intelligent teams understand that you build franchises with defense. Our #1 and #2 came out and performed day 1. Great picks. #3 and #4 in Spencer and Winston were just as great. Add Lundy, Daniels, Tayler, Morency, etc. This is going to be one of the all time best draft classes in the history of pro football. Look at all the rookie starters we have, and yet we have a chance to finish 6-10.
 
Mario is only 21 and was the youngest starter in the league earlier in the season. What got me excited is that Strahan is 34 and still is making an impact in this league, we could possibly get 13-14 more years from a productive, if not dominate, defensive end.
 
DenverBorn said:
My whole issue with the "project" issue is the hypocrisy of it all. We didn't draft Vince in part because he was a "project" and the team wants to win NOW. Yet the guy we did draft is also a "project", and we're now supposed to give him the time we weren't willing to give Vince.
Click to expand...

It's not that hard. Vince was NEVER a candidate to be drafted by the Texans. The media, Vince himself and the UT boosters made it so the team had to at least talk to him. We simply were not taking a QB with #1 overall. Perhaps we might have been trying to trade back to the 5-10 range and maybe would have considered Vince there, I don't know.

No one is being a hypocrite. QB was not considered a need position. DE was a need position. It's as simple as that.
 
I think the real reason we didn't take VY is because the Texans as an organization thought we already had a good QB in Carr. They might have been embarrassingly wrong about that, but that's what they thought.
 
Cut all this # 1 pick gibberish out. Mario did what he could do despite the talent surrounding him. people forget that he bascially elevated his fellow DT teammates to 1st round draft picks & once he gets quality guys around him, i think you'll see TJ come along.

i won't make excuses for his production in the sack dept. i'd like to see more of that, but considering how much respect teams are showing him already, i think it's just a matter of time & maturation of our relatively young defense. Plus i don't think he'll be a big sack guy anyway, he'll just be the rock on the side that teams don't want to run to. this is why Kubes started out by switching him around on the D L. Once we get a couple more playmakers in key positions on the D, I think you'll see Mario flourish; he's just 1 guy on the side of the ball that needs all 11 guys to be on the same page to function well.
 
Getting back on track here, I think Mario is doing an excellent job, and I think he has been getting better each week. He battles through injury, and criticism. Everyone would like to see him get 10-12 sacks, but is that really a realistic goal for a 22 year old rookie DE on the Houston Texans? He will get there, but not until he gets more skilled, and has more talent around him.

Hey, we gave Carr 5 years here. We can give Mario 5 too.
 
For me his sack total is hollow even at 4. He ran into 3 of them and it wasn't like he was a big disruptive pass rusher by any means. With so many rookies making a huge impact in the league I'm a bit dissapointed with Mario at the 1 overall....but its just like Carr - IF he plays to his potential he can go to multiple Pro Bowls...but potential means you haven't done it yet. I'd give him a B- on the year just due to potential flashed and the fact that he is decent vs the run. You can get a run stopper later in the draft though.
 
Mr teX said:
Cut all this # 1 pick gibberish out.
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I agree. I didn't want this to turn into a "Well if we would have picked VY or Bush..." thread. So please refrain from that aspect of us drafting Mario.
This is just to discuss his development as an NFL defensive lineman.
 
Sportsfan said:
I agree. I didn't want this to turn into a "Well if we would have picked VY or Bush..." thread. So please refrain from that aspect of us drafting Mario.
This is just to discuss his development as an NFL defensive lineman.
Click to expand...

But you should have known better. Of course there are people that will take this thread and twist it into their own agendas and really contribute nothing to it...

C'mon, you know better than that by now....
 
Texan_Bill said:
But you should have known better. Of course there are people that will take this thread and twist it into their own agendas and really contribute nothing to it...

C'mon, you know better than that by now....
Click to expand...

Yeah i know that, was just trying to keep it on track. Its unfortunate that happens....
 
El Tejano said:
Billichek told him he was good. I am going to go with the coach who has won multiple Super Bowls based on solid defensive teams.
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True dat. When is the last time Bill went onto the field, and found a player, to compliment, and talk with him like that?

Richard Seymour
Vince Wilfork
Ty Warren

The guy knows how important these big men are.

Vinny said:
For me his sack total is hollow even at 4. He ran into 3 of them and it wasn't like he was a big disruptive pass rusher by any means.
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Why do we hold Mario's sacks against him? What about any other sack in the league that was "hollow?" Do we discount them? No we dont, because we hold Mario higher than any other player. Mario was the first to get to the QB on his 4.5 sacks. Im sure every other DE, LB, DT out there has a few "hollow" sacks, but who cares, theyre not Mario Williams.... We wont discount their sack totals because we didnt see them, or dont care to cheapen their stats.
 
Super Mario said:
True dat. When is the last time Bill went onto the field, and found a player, to compliment, and talk with him like that?

Richard Seymour
Vince Wilfork
Ty Warren

The guy knows how important these big men are.



Why do we hold Mario's sacks against him? What about any other sack in the league that was "hollow?" Do we discount them? No we dont, because we hold Mario higher than any other player. Mario was the first to get to the QB on his 4.5 sacks. Im sure every other DE, LB, DT out there has a few "hollow" sacks, but who cares, theyre not Mario Williams.... We wont discount their sack totals because we didnt see them, or dont care to cheapen their stats.
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I'm not holding them against him...I'm just saying that all but 2 of them were gimmies. I don't impress as easily as you perhaps...nor did I change my screen name to MarioWilliams either. That probably explains why you didn't like my comment.
 
Vinny said:
I'm not holding them against him...I'm just saying that all but 2 of them were gimmies. I don't impress as easily as you perhaps...nor did I change my screen name to MarioWilliams either. That probably explains why you didn't like my comment.
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Dont try to back pedal out of your comments now. You think that because he didnt pick up the tackle, throw him to the ground, and suplex the QB, it wasnt a good sack.

As far as them being "gimmies", give me a break. The QB gets flushed from the pocket by a unblocked linebacker, Mario sheds a blocker, and makes the tackle. What in the world is wrong with that? Im sure you have a witty response ready for this.

Its like your daughters boyfriend. Nobody is good enough for your Texans.
 
Sportsfan said:
Yeah i know that, was just trying to keep it on track. Its unfortunate that happens....
Click to expand...

Maybe we all ought to just sit in a circle, hold hands and tell each other how great the Texans are. That would be fun....

I think an evaluation of Mario has to be in the context of where he was drafted and what were the expectations for him. Otherwise, what's the point?
 
DenverBorn said:
Here's where this year's 6 Pro Bowl DE's were drafted:

Jason Taylor 3rd round # 73 - 1997
Aaron Schobel 2nd round # 46 - 2001
Derrick Burgess 3rd round #63 - 2001
Julius Peppers 1st round #2 - 2002
Will Smith 1st round # 18 - 2004
Aaron Kampman 5th round # 156 - 2002

Now if you are SURE that Mario Williams is going to become a Julius Peppers or a Jevon Kearse, maybe you pick him number 1. But there was NOTHING in his college career to make one sure he'd be that good.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/positions/DE
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That is an exaggeration. link

I am not saying Peppers and Williams play in a similar way, but their college stats are very similar. If you look at the negatives about Peppers coming out of the draft, they are also similar to Williams. Like Peppers and Kearse, Williams is a physical freak. Unlike both of them, Williams came out of school as a true junior and not a redshirt.

Peppers went to play on a line with other good players and for a defensive minded coach in Fox who loves defensive linemen.

Williams has played a good portion of the season in a new defensive scheme with a bunch of guys who are street free agents. He is the only defensive lineman for the Texans who will have started every game. link, with goofy video.
 
Super Mario said:
Dont try to back pedal out of your comments now. You think that because he didnt pick up the tackle, throw him to the ground, and suplex the QB, it wasnt a good sack.

As far as them being "gimmies", give me a break. The QB gets flushed from the pocket by a unblocked linebacker, Mario sheds a blocker, and makes the tackle. What in the world is wrong with that? Im sure you have a witty response ready for this.

Its like your daughters boyfriend. Nobody is good enough for your Texans.
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I'm not backpedaling anything....ok, you have much Mario manlove....I get it. I also have a different opinion than you do...get that whydontcha. It's not like anyone considers him a one of the top rookies this year, so it's not like I'm alone in giving him a b- and being a bit dissapointed in lieu of how many rookies are impacting the league across the board this season.
 
DenverBorn said:
Maybe we all ought to just sit in a circle, hold hands and tell each other how great the Texans are. That would be fun....

I think an evaluation of Mario has to be in the context of where he was drafted and what were the expectations for him. Otherwise, what's the point?
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Because where he was drafted really is unimportant as far as i'm concerned. I 've said this before, but people make too much of the fact that he was the number 1 overall pick. If we drafted RB & he doesn't have a 1000 yd. rushing season his rookie year, does that mean that he wasn't the right pick for us? No, If VY throws more ints than TD's his rookie yr. does that make him not the right pick for us? no. the only thing should matter is what he/how did/progresses for us........our team, not what a no. 1 overall pick is supossed to do in everyone else's eyes. If Mario never has a double digit sack season but is a key component in a shutdown defense for years to come would anyone care where he was drafted then?
 
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