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Mario Williams

Kaiser Toro said:
Kubiak the candidate wanted Bush and nodded to Carr. In my opinion he was not going to make two committments on two unknowns right out of the gate.
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Actually Carr was an unknown. It was known that he currently sucked at that time, however it was unknown whether or not he could stop sucking under Kubiak. Of course we all know that the suckness that was Carr was legitimate suckness and there would be no changing that. Kubes was 1 for 2 there.

I don't claim to be a football expert but I was convinced that neither Carr or Bush would pan out well in the NFL. I just knew that picking Bush and keeping Carr would have launched us into Arizona Cardinalness for the next decade. Looks like I ended up being right there. When healthy Bush has barely shown any flashes and certainly hasn't been a game breaker. However now the question of his durability comes up. Some scouts didn't think he had the body to hold up well in the NFL. After having to carry the load for the Saints this is looking like it could be the case.

Where I hope I will be proven wrong in all of this is with VY. VY's legs are what really made him the superstar in college. Can he continue to have that threat and stay healthy in the NFL? If not, he may still end up being a decent QB but not the superstar he was in college.

We do have to keep all of this in perspective though. Mario is looking the better of the 3 RIGHT NOW, however the landscape of things changes so fast in the NFL. We may not truly know for another 3 to 5 years who made out best in this draft. It might be that none of the top 3 end up being the best.
 
Hookem Horns said:
However now the question of his durability comes up. Some scouts didn't think he had the body to hold up well in the NFL. After having to carry the load for the Saints this is looking like it could be the case.
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But.. wasn't he carrying the load because another, more prototypical running back got injured??


Look, I'm not a Reggie Apologist or anything, but can you start attacking his durability after one injury??

I mean Duce has a fat paycheck, just like Reggie, & he has a history of injuries.

Let's talk about the fumbles, the inability to find the end zone, the pitiful stats, the endless barrage of ridiculous Reggie Bush commercials played again & again on NFL Network.

We'll slam him about his durability next year, when he can't make a full season again.
 
I think questioning Bush's durability is perfectly legitimate because one of the biggest knocks on him coming out was his body type and how that could make him susceptible to injury while try to ply RB. And he keeps himself in perfect physical shape, if anyone has ever seen segments on his workout regimen. Durability is a concern with him, whether he has a history of injuries or not.

Back to Mario, the actual topic of this thread, I am itching for another monster game from him. Too bad they aren't playing at home, because I think Mario really feeds off the home crowd.
 
Tulip said:
Back to Mario, the actual topic of this thread, I am itching for another monster game from him. Too bad they aren't playing at home, because I think Mario really feeds off the home crowd.
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the crowd feeds off mario too.. hes quietly become our franchise player (not to take away from demeco,aj,dunta etc or anything but because of what happened last yr and how its turned out, hes become the fan favourite)
 
I think today is a really big game for Mario Williams. We drafted him with the tagline of "getting to Manning" and now that we have seen him come on and really develop as of late, today would be the perfect day for him to fulfill on that promise.
 
more kudos for Williams

Their stories are important too, and here they are:

Mario Williams

If only the second-year defensive end of the Houston Texans got as much attention for his play as he received for being the top overall pick of last year’s NFL Draft.

Williams had no control over the Texans’ selection of him over players such as Reggie Bush and Houston native Vince Young, and he had to hear a lot about what a huge mistake the Texans had made by taking him. Williams is quickly proving those naysayers wrong as he evolves into one of football’s best defensive players.

Williams has 14 sacks this year (Julius Peppers' career high is 13), ranking him second in the NFL in that category. He also has 55 tackles and is playing a complete game, stuffing the run as well as he tracks down QBs. Bush, the player Houston was ripped for not taking, is looking more like Larry Centers than Gale Sayers every day. At the time of his season-ending knee injury three weeks ago, Bush ranked 37th in yards per carry among the 47 backs with more than 75 attempts, he led the NFL in dropped passes and carried the lowest yards per reception average of any back in the top-10 in catches since 1963. Bush’s longest play this year is 25 yards, and Williams even topped him there with fumble recovery returned 38 yards for a touchdown on the opening weekend of the season.

Vince Young has also struggled mightily in his sophomore year. Thus far, Williams has probably played better than anyone from the 2006 Draft, and he’s definitely exceeded the performance of one Reggie Bush.
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http://www.laurinburgexchange.com/articles/2007/12/29/news/sports/sports01.txt
 
He is just wired wrong. Not having fast twitch muscles like Peppers will keep him from attaining Peppers'-like sack numbers.
 
A huge factor that many overlook is the number of sack opportunities presented to a pass rusher who is on a team which routinely has a large lead
vs. a team which routinely is behind.
One team is rushing the ball while it sits on its lead and runs the clock out while the other has to constantly put its QB at risk of being sacked in obvious passing situations in an effort to get back in the game.
That factor alone gives a Dwight Freeney a tremendous edge over a Mario Williams in sack opportunities.
 
KT! I love the sig pic!! :d:

Work ethics and attitude, coupled with strength, quickness, and a quick learning curve, will make Mario one of the best DE the NFL has ever seen, past or present. He DOES feed off the fans, and is one of the FEW players to ever give fans recognition. Dunte does, and so does Bennett, and it's a nice feeling to see them respond to the fans the way they do.
 
nunusguy said:
A huge factor that many overlook is the number of sack opportunities presented to a pass rusher who is on a team which routinely has a large lead
vs. a team which routinely is behind.
One team is rushing the ball while it sits on its lead and runs the clock out while the other has to constantly put its QB at risk of being sacked in obvious passing situations in an effort to get back in the game.
That factor alone gives a Dwight Freeney a tremendous edge over a Mario Williams in sack opportunities.
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Has anyone oticed that Freeny's sack numbers have gone down alot since Carr moved out of the AFC south? Just wondering.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Actually he should have no sacks recorded because everyone steers the QB into his path or the QB just goes down.
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atxcoolguy said:
That and the fact that he isn't going against a great LT on every rush like great DE's always do. :)
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b0ng said:
IT's obvious he takes games off because he doesn't have a sack in every game!
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Kaiser Toro said:
He is just wired wrong. Not having fast twitch muscles like Peppers will keep him from attaining Peppers'-like sack numbers.
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Flipping the coin over, now that he is playing well we can give up the (phantom) double team excuse too!
 
little old and not sure if this was mentioned

if so my apologies

After this Sunday, the Texans' rookies will no longer be rookies. How do you think they will come back after their break? The Texans are obviously hopeful that Amobi Okoye can make a similar jump as Mario Williams did last offseason.

Williams said there isn't much of a secret to using the offseason to your advantage. It's mostly about using common sense.

"It's all about taking care of your own self," Williams said. "You could have everybody sitting here trying to say you need to do this, do that, but at the end it comes down to how hard you're going to do whatever you were supposed to have been doing. So it's pretty much you've go to take it upon yourself and do what's right for you and what you know you need to work on."
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http://blogs.chron.com/gamedaytexans/2007/12/offensive_coordinator_search_t.html
 
you know what would be really cool? if every time he was about to all out rush the QB, he yelled MMMAAARRRIOOO HHHWWWILLIAMMMMS in the style of Leeroy Jenkins...
 
I wanted to bump the Mario is a bust thread, but this one shall do.

I couldn't find the fast twitch conversation. Lots of comments that sound similar to ones we hear about Mario now. Plus it's just fun to pass time reading oldie threads.
 
Rey said:
I wanted to bump the Mario is a bust thread, but this one shall do.

I couldn't find the fast twitch conversation. Lots of comments that sound similar to ones we hear about Mario now. Plus it's just fun to pass time reading oldie threads.
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But how many draft picks can we get for him?
:kitten::doot:
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Mario is a couple of twitches short of Greased Lightning.
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NFLN was re-airing their Top 100 players show.

When showing DeMarcus Ware of the Cowboys, it's obvious that Ware is built different from Mario. Whereas Mario is tall and long, Ware is shorter and wider...Ware gets his pad level low and drives through or around the lineman, and has amazing instincts--Just a twist here, or a spin there, at seemingly a split-second of reaction and he's to the QB or the ball carrier.

Watching those clips of Ware, I can say that my eyes don't see those same qualities in Mario.

Before everybody jumps my ass and scolds me for daring to dog Mario and puff up Ware on here...just one thing: I think Mario is adequate. He's not bad, he's not decent. He's adequate. He should be great, though. And this preseason action we saw from him? I hope he flips a switch early in the reg season. I have serious doubts, personally.
 
GP said:
NFLN was re-airing their Top 100 players show.

When showing DeMarcus Ware of the Cowboys, it's obvious that Ware is built different from Mario. Whereas Mario is tall and long, Ware is shorter and wider...Ware gets his pad level low and drives through or around the lineman, and has amazing instincts--Just a twist here, or a spin there, at seemingly a split-second of reaction and he's to the QB or the ball carrier.

Watching those clips of Ware, I can say that my eyes don't see those same qualities in Mario.

Before everybody jumps my ass and scolds me for daring to dog Mario and puff up Ware on here...just one thing: I think Mario is adequate. He's not bad, he's not decent. He's adequate. He should be great, though. And this preseason action we saw from him? I hope he flips a switch early in the reg season. I have serious doubts, personally.
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Mario and Dwight freeney weren't the same type of de's either.

If you are expecting Mario to look like ware or freeney you will be disappointed. That's just not who he is.
 
Rey said:
Mario and Dwight freeney weren't the same type of de's either.

If you are expecting Mario to look like ware or freeney you will be disappointed. That's just not who he is.
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I only expect a highly-touted DE, such as Mario, to produce and to do it on a consistent basis....not be quiet and invisible for several games and then run into a string of sacks against weak teams like the Rams or Raiders, etc.

Freeny and Ware are better DEs than Mario.

Put Ware on this Texans defense and he gets 127 sacks and is banned from the NFL for sexual assault on the field of play.

And in case somebody wants to scold me, again (and not pointing fingers at you, rey), let me say this: This defense, with a new d-coord and better secondary players and a Defense-heavy draft that produced JJ Watt, is outgrowing Mario Williams. Not entirely, obviously. I mean to say that this defense as a whole unit is capable of wreaking havoc with or without Mario.

We've practically had no other "good" defensive players outside of Mario Williams, Dunta Robinson, and DeMeco Ryans when he's not hurt or making "it's juts another game" comments. It's easy to understand why so many fans are still thinking Mario is just mislabeled by the haters, etc. Whatever. The guy is not "great," and I won't buy the argument from some who claim he's a top tier guy. He's close, but no cigar, IMO.
 
GP said:
I only expect a highly-touted DE, such as Mario, to produce and to do it on a consistent basis....not be quiet and invisible for several games and then run into a string of sacks against weak teams like the Rams or Raiders, etc.

Freeny and Ware are better DEs than Mario.

Put Ware on this Texans defense and he gets 127 sacks and is banned from the NFL for sexual assault on the field of play.

And in case somebody wants to scold me, again (and not pointing fingers at you, rey), let me say this: This defense, with a new d-coord and better secondary players and a Defense-heavy draft that produced JJ Watt, is outgrowing Mario Williams. Not entirely, obviously. I mean to say that this defense as a whole unit is capable of wreaking havoc with or without Mario.

We've practically had no other "good" defensive players outside of Mario Williams, Dunta Robinson, and DeMeco Ryans when he's not hurt or making "it's juts another game" comments. It's easy to understand why so many fans are still thinking Mario is just mislabeled by the haters, etc. Whatever. The guy is not "great," and I won't buy the argument from some who claim he's a top tier guy. He's close, but no cigar, IMO.
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What about the guys who voted him as one of the top 100 players of last year. They play him week-in/week-out. I guess they don't know what they're talking about either, huh?

The assessment from guys with first-hand data carry more weight than fans or talking heads who don't play.
 
GP said:
I only expect a highly-touted DE, such as Mario, to produce and to do it on a consistent basis....not be quiet and invisible for several games and then run into a string of sacks against weak teams
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Do you watch other de's/olb's?

Lots of them tend to get sacks in bunches.

And Mario gets sacks against good teams so I'm not sure what you're talking about there. Remember when he hurt Ben rothelisberger in pittsburg?

He gets sacks against good qb's. Problem is, in the past if he wasn't getting sacks hardly anyone else was.

And I disagree that freeney is a better de than Mario was. He was a better pass rusher for sure. But freeney is not great against the run. There is more to being a de than pinning your ears back. when the colts are getting pounded freeney and Mathis are invisible. They have about 0 impact on the game. Go back and look at the first game from last year as well as the many other times opponents run the ball at them.

Marios role is changing under Phillips so it's not fair to compare old Mario to ware because they weren't asked to do the same things. And still, like I said earlier, they are two different types of players. Judge him on his own merits, not based on what others do.

If he fails it won't be because he isn't like Demarcus ware as there have Been all types that have failed and all types that have done well.
 
Semi-relevant..

I had a good laugh when reading on the Jag's forum, they figured they'd offer us a firstie and get a little Williams on their side.

in-division trade for inadequate compensation=WIN!
 
Section516 said:
Semi-relevant..

I had a good laugh when reading on the Jag's forum, they figured they'd offer us a firstie and get a little Williams on their side.

in-division trade for inadequate compensation=WIN!
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Interesting how THEY see his value and our own fans do not.
 
ObsiWan said:
Interesting how THEY see his value and our own fans do not.
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Fans are jaded and almost always hate their own players, or love them incessantly without reason.

Look at the Jags fans talking about how great their season is going to be now that they got rid of that bum Garrard. Nevermind who is replacing Garrard this cut makes their team better!

Fans come up with all kinds of dumbass reasoning as to why they don't like a specific player, be it smirking after a bad play (or laughing), not completely dominating every single player that lines up in front of them, to making too much money (lol). I think Mario is going to be fine this year, especially if others are contributing in the QB Pressure aspect of our defense.
 
GP said:
When showing DeMarcus Ware of the Cowboys, it's obvious that Ware is built different from Mario. Whereas Mario is tall and long, Ware is shorter and wider...
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You need to get your eyes checked. Ware is a shorter version of Mario and isn't wider at all. He is two inches shorter and 30 lbs lighter. Freeney would be the shorter thicker comparison.

Rey said:
And Mario gets sacks against good teams so I'm not sure what you're talking about there.
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He's not talking about anything realistic. Mario has sacked Manning more than anyone else during his tenure in the league and Manning is the toughest QB in the league to sack.
 
I just love Internet debates.

I say Mario is not top tier, others say he is, so I'm wrong and they're right.

I'll see what he does this year, but make no mistake about it...he will be defended (as usual) because "He's in a new system and asked to play a different role."

Previously, he was on a bad defense. Now he's on SUCH a good defense that it overshadows him and his "new role" which also provides an excuse for any lack of impact he might have this year.

A rhinestone sitting on top of a pile of horse manure sparkles, but it ain't a diamond. Mario has been the best d-linemen we've had in the Kubiak era, but that doesn't mean he's All-World. I'd even wager that had he been drafted at like pick 15 (like we normally do every year) he wouldn't be as heavily touted by everybody.

Last thing: He gains a bit of "pop" by virtue of having beaten out VY and RB in the draft. Remember how everybody thought we were dumb for taking Mario over such vaunted talents as VY and RB? That's because nobody knew Mario Williams before he became Houston's #1 pick. He wasn't a prominent NCAA player on a big-time NCAA team, and it blew people's minds when he was picked #1. By virtue of NOT being as bad as VY and RB, he gains some cred that I think is overblown.

I want to see him dominate several games in-a-row and be unblockable. Haven't seen it yet.
 
GP said:
I just love Internet debates.

I say Mario is not top tier, others say he is, so I'm wrong and they're right.

I'll see what he does this year, but make no mistake about it...he will be defended (as usual) because "He's in a new system and asked to play a different role."

Previously, he was on a bad defense. Now he's on SUCH a good defense that it overshadows him and his "new role" which also provides an excuse for any lack of impact he might have this year.

A rhinestone sitting on top of a pile of horse manure sparkles, but it ain't a diamond. Mario has been the best d-linemen we've had in the Kubiak era, but that doesn't mean he's All-World. I'd even wager that had he been drafted at like pick 15 (like we normally do every year) he wouldn't be as heavily touted by everybody.

Last thing: He gains a bit of "pop" by virtue of having beaten out VY and RB in the draft. Remember how everybody thought we were dumb for taking Mario over such vaunted talents as VY and RB? That's because nobody knew Mario Williams before he became Houston's #1 pick. He wasn't a prominent NCAA player on a big-time NCAA team, and it blew people's minds when he was picked #1. By virtue of NOT being as bad as VY and RB, he gains some cred that I think is overblown.

I want to see him dominate several games in-a-row and be unblockable. Haven't seen it yet.
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speaking of debates I hope this one turns out better: remember Kubiak said when he got the HC gig he would make HWMNBN a better starting NFL QB? now it's Wade turn, he might have just told Bob that he could turn Mario into a playmaking OLB in his hybrid defense. :chef:
 
Out of the 2006 draft, who would you rather have?

Out of these, the only one i would consider would be Ngata, which wouldn't of lead to Okoye, which may of lead to Revis or Willis. I don't think Revis would of developed into what he is today, however.

*Queue butterfly effect

*only listing Probowlers, per Wiki

Williams, Mario† DT
Young, Vince † QB
Ferguson, D'Brickashaw OT
Vernon Davis TE
Jay Cutler QB
Haloti Ngata DT
Antonio Cromartie† CB
Tamba Hali† LB
Davin Joseph† G
DeAngelo Williams RB
Mercedes Lewis TE
Nick Mangold C
Joseph Addai RB
(Demeco Ryans, already drafted) LB
Roman Harper S
Marcus McNeill OT
Greg Jennings WR
Devin Hester WR/R
MJJ RB
OD (alreadt drafted) TE
Jahri Evans G
Leon WashingtonRB
Stephen Gostowski K
Brandon Marshall WR
Elvis Dumerville DE
Kyle Williams DT
Antoine Bethea S
Cortland Finnegan CB
 
Rey said:
If he fails it won't be because he isn't like Demarcus ware as there have Been all types that have failed and all types that have done well.
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Show me anyone that has played that position that isn't a ware type that has done well. Mario doesn't fit the typical type of athlete that you find at the position. This is the first time that I have heard of a player with Mario's skillset being tried at OLB.

I think Everyone would agree Mario is a great athlete for his size but compared to the Ware's of the NFL he doesn't have the first step or initial burst to blow by Olinemen. That is what makes Ware types so dangerous.

And Mario certainly hasn't shown the instincts or technique to make up for his lack of burst. That is why you see OLinemen and TE's able to lock him up so much. He is going to get his stats simply because of his size and ability but the question people like me want answered is, can he be a weapon at OLB? Unless he miraculously develops some legit moves, instincts and a killer mentality I don't see how that is possible.

Is he going to be terrible? No! Can he become the weapon that the position was designed for? We'll see but I along with others seriously doubt it.
 
beerlover said:
speaking of debates I hope this one turns out better: remember Kubiak said when he got the HC gig he would make HWMNBN a better starting NFL QB? now it's Wade turn, he might have just told Bob that he could turn Mario into a playmaking OLB in his hybrid defense. :chef:
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I think that by virtue of having Wade as d-coord, improving the secondary with TWO quality guys in Manning and Joseph, and the Defense-heavy draft...it pretty much is going to put Mario under the microscope.

Can he produce with all this upgraded talent around him?

Kubiak came in and improved the offense in just one season. He even reduced Carr's sack numbers in a HUGE way. A dramatic dip in sacks-taken by Carr. With a new offense, and a few upgrades on offense, even Carr looked better in just one year. However, he looked better because everything around him became better.

Can Mario make a jump up with the uprades around him? For the record, since everybody loves to parse my replies: I am NOT equating Carr and Mario, just saying that both guys were the "Feature Player/Leader" of their respective position(s) and both guys had a new coach come in and upgrade the system and the players around him.

Mario will retire a Texans player. Bob wants it, and I understand the mindset. He's not terrible, he's not mediocre. He's "good" and Bob will want him and Andre Johnson to retire Texans. Can't blame him on that one.
 
I like when Wade has him up on the line with his hand down. Is this your typical OLB position? probably not, but it puts Mario in the best position to get into the backfield quickest. Teams counter by running the opposite direction, this feeds them into the teeth of Wades defensive shifts. If Mario gets a sack or tackle behind the line of scrimmage that's a bonus, bottom line is there will be more three & outs than ever allowing Texan offense to rack up significantly more scoring plays which should translate into more wins :mario:
 
It no longer matters to me what pick Mario was or what position he played last season. He does not have to be super Mario to be successful in this defense but he has to be pretty good and soon. We have a better defense around him and arguably the best DC in NFL at the 3-4. Wade thinks he can turn Williams into a very good QB disrupter and we know he has done this with others. Against Collins, Mario should have a very good if not great game.
 
mussop said:
Show me anyone that has played that position that isn't a ware type that has done well. Mario doesn't fit the typical type of athlete that you find at the position. This is the first time that I have heard of a player with Mario's skillset being tried at OLB.

I think Everyone would agree Mario is a great athlete for his size but compared to the Ware's of the NFL he doesn't have the first step or initial burst to blow by Olinemen. That is what makes Ware types so dangerous.

And Mario certainly hasn't shown the instincts or technique to make up for his lack of burst. That is why you see OLinemen and TE's able to lock him up so much. He is going to get his stats simply because of his size and ability but the question people like me want answered is, can he be a weapon at OLB? Unless he miraculously develops some legit moves, instincts and a killer mentality I don't see how that is possible.

Is he going to be terrible? No! Can he become the weapon that the position was designed for? We'll see but I along with others seriously doubt it.
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1st, I disagree that TE's and lineman consistently lock him up. IMHO, a lot of people like to look at games and make determinations without knowing exactly what a player is trying to do. Often times D-linemen are asked to hold the point of attack in running situations. Exactly how many times have you seen Mario get pushed back and cleared out of the way?

As far as your point about showing another player like Mario being successful there hasn't been many players like him to play that position. But that's not what I said. What I said was that there have been different types of players to play the position.

I don't think your argument really holds a lot of weight because you are not taking into account innovation. If folks always did one thing the same way you wouldn't have anyone setting trends.

Maybe Mario fails. I don't know. IMOHO, I think he will succeed though. But saying that no one like him has done it before doesn't mean a whole lot to me.
 
Section516 said:
Out of the 2006 draft, who would you rather have?

Out of these, the only one i would consider would be Ngata, which wouldn't of lead to Okoye, which may of lead to Revis or Willis. I don't think Revis would of developed into what he is today, however.

*Queue butterfly effect

*only listing Probowlers, per Wiki

Williams, Mario† DT
Young, Vince † QB
Ferguson, D'Brickashaw OT
Vernon Davis TE
Jay Cutler QB
Haloti Ngata DT
Antonio Cromartie† CB
Tamba Hali† LB
Davin Joseph† G
DeAngelo Williams RB
Mercedes Lewis TE
Nick Mangold C
Joseph Addai RB
(Demeco Ryans, already drafted) LB
Roman Harper S
Marcus McNeill OT
Greg Jennings WR
Devin Hester WR/R
MJJ RB
OD (alreadt drafted) TE
Jahri Evans G
Leon WashingtonRB
Stephen Gostowski K
Brandon Marshall WR
Elvis Dumerville DE
Kyle Williams DT
Antoine Bethea S
Cortland Finnegan CB
Click to expand...

Haloti Ngata. Love Mario but Ngata is a beast.
 
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