Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

[eriadoc]

I appreciate Walters' contributions.

However Jean should get more PT.

That's where I am. When I see Jean catch a ball, a small part of me is reminded of AJ. I think the guy has a chance to be the Rod Smith of the Texans, if he keeps at it. I like Martin for an entirely different role; one that the Texans have never really had. He's going to be good as well.

 

[Rey]

That's where I am. When I see Jean catch a ball, a small part of me is reminded of AJ. I think the guy has a chance to be the Rod Smith of the Texans, if he keeps at it. I like Martin for an entirely different role; one that the Texans have never really had. He's going to be good as well.

I've said this before, but I want to see a healthy rotation if the young guys can handle it.

I want Aj to get more rest than he has in the past and I want all if them to stay fresh.

Walter doesn't suck. He just is not a wr that you can line up outside all game long and expect elite production.

I'd love to see Aj and Jean primarily be the outside recorders with Martin and Walter specializing in the slot.

Walter and Martin are different as can be, but both have valuable skills that can be utilized in the slot.

Martin has the speed and quickness. Precise movements. Can go up the seam and make plays or run short routes for completions.

Walter is a big bodied sure handed guy that should excel in shielding off smaller nickel corners for short quick completions and is tough enough to deal with lb's at the LOS. His blocking skills could also shine there almost being like a hybrid wr/h back type of player.

Walter has a role on this team. What I disagree on is that his role is best suited for getting most of his time as #2 wr opposite andre.

 

[Corrosion]

I appreciate Walters' contributions.

However Jean should get more PT.

How many plays did Walter make last yr ? Excluding Cincy, a play which will forever live in my memory.

Jean is going to be hard as hell to ignore when it comes to playing time ... He gets open , he makes tough catches. He may displace Walter sooner than later .... like before the quarter pole of the season if he keeps playing at this level.


Walter does a lot of dirty work .... but you just cant ignore the production from Jean.
AJ , Jean and Martin is a pretty dynamic trio especially when you consider Walter , OD , Graham , Casey , Foster and Tate as weapons - Schaub's loaded with any five of those guy's on the field at the same time. Thats a nightmare for defenses ....
If Schaub stays healthy all season , I expect this to be one of the top five offenses in the league (they'll get plenty of opportunities with that defense too).

 

[EllisUnit]

Jean is going to be hard as hell to ignore when it comes to playing time ... He gets open , he makes tough catches. He may displace Walter sooner than later .... like before the quarter pole of the season if he keeps playing at this level.


Walter does a lot of dirty work .... but you just cant ignore the production from Jean.
AJ , Jean and Martin is a pretty dynamic trio especially when you consider Walter , OD , Graham , Casey , Foster and Tate as weapons - Schaub's loaded with any five of those guy's on the field at the same time. Thats a nightmare for defenses ....
If Schaub stays healthy all season , I expect this to be one of the top five offenses in the league (they'll get plenty of opportunities with that defense too).

WOW

Schaub
Foster
Casey at FB
Daniels
AJ # 1
Jean # 2
Martin # 3

All on the field at the same time, so many ways to beat teams. This could be the best most talented group we have EVER fielded. Sucks so much part of the success of these guys rests on the right side of the line which is "to put it lightly" Looking less than stellar thus far.

But other than that this team has all the potential in the world to make it to the big game in New Orleans.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Did Kevin Walter even play last night?

Yeah. He was out there for most of the first half.

 

[michaelm]

WOW

Schaub
Foster
Casey at FB
Daniels
AJ # 1
Jean # 2
Martin # 3

All on the field at the same time, so many ways to beat teams. This could be the best most talented group we have EVER fielded. Sucks so much part of the success of these guys rests on the right side of the line which is "to put it lightly" Looking less than stellar thus far.

But other than that this team has all the potential in the world to make it to the big game in New Orleans.

I guess we would have so many ways to beat teams if the replacement refs miss the 12 men on the field...

 

[76Texan]

I figured that's what you were talking about but didn't want to speculate as I hadn't seen the play.

But if I'm understanding you right, the team did in fact ask Martin to do the same thing (motion to a wing position or to the te's hip pocket and cut the backside Olb or de). I specifically remember him doing that later in the game.

Was it as devastating a block as Walters? Probably not, but it was effective.

The wr I don't think they're going to ask to do that is Andre.

When the back side DE was 8-10 yards away from Schaub when he set up to make the throw on a bootleg, I would call it a devastating block.

We have gone through this quite extensively.

The combination of everything that Walter has been doing for the Texans is not replaceable at the moment.

Like I said, he's a mid 4.4 guy that can run good route.
He cannot be left in man too often.
I've rewatched some 9 games from last year with the all-22 view.
If Schaub had only look at Walter more often, his stats would have been completely different.

As far as speed is concern, I remember talking about Walter in the two-man route portion last off-season.
Schaub was late and short on a throw such that Walter had to slow down and came to an almost complete stop to catch that ball on the post route.
The CB had just enough time to come back to commit a PI to prevent Walter to take it to the house.
It was a 43-47-yd pass interference call (I don't remember exactly the distance, but I can look it up.)
And obviously, it was not in the book as a catch, nor a TD.

 

[eriadoc]

I've rewatched some 9 games from last year with the all-22 view.
If Schaub had only look at Walter more often, his stats would have been completely different.

See, that's pretty much /thread for me, guys. You can come with all the opinions you want, but this man has watched the film. When a Walter hater (not saying we have many, but a couple) watches the film and wants to compare notes, then I'll tune back in with great interest. Until then, your opinion is just as ill informed as mine. Except I admit my opinion is ill informed.

I'd rep you 76, but I'm slack in spreading it around recently.

 

[76Texan]

See, that's pretty much /thread for me, guys. You can come with all the opinions you want, but this man has watched the film. When a Walter hater (not saying we have many, but a couple) watches the film and wants to compare notes, then I'll tune back in with great interest. Until then, your opinion is just as ill informed as mine. Except I admit my opinion is ill informed.

I'd rep you 76, but I'm slack in spreading it around recently.

Thanks mostly for the part that says we love the game and like to learn the depth of it (as much as we can).

BTW, there was also the end zone view, a regular broadcast view, and a condensed view (play only, no commercial or anything else).

On top of that, I occasionally get a different version of the game.
The Niners game for example have slightly different camera angles.
The TV crews from the two opposite teams are located in different spots (for both the side view and the occasional end zone view).

Occasionally, I also have the replay version that included a few comments from the coaches on a play here and there.
One can learn a little here and there.

 

[wolf123]

When the back side DE was 8-10 yards away from Schaub when he set up to make the throw on a bootleg, I would call it a devastating block.

We have gone through this quite extensively.

The combination of everything that Walter has been doing for the Texans is not replaceable at the moment.

Like I said, he's a mid 4.4 guy that can run good route.
He cannot be left in man too often.
I've rewatched some 9 games from last year with the all-22 view.
If Schaub had only look at Walter more often, his stats would have been completely different.

As far as speed is concern, I remember talking about Walter in the two-man route portion last off-season.
Schaub was late and short on a throw such that Walter had to slow down and came to an almost complete stop to catch that ball on the post route.
The CB had just enough time to come back to commit a PI to prevent Walter to take it to the house.
It was a 43-47-yd pass interference call (I don't remember exactly the distance, but I can look it up.)
And obviously, it was not in the book as a catch, nor a TD.

Walter 4.4 speed? Not even close...

 

[Texn4life]

Walter 4.4 speed? Not even close...

That one struck me as maybe a little off as well, but I couldn't find an official 40 time. Even if he was timed at a 4.4 coming out of college, at his age I doubt he still runs that. He's fast enough though which is just fine with me.

 

[76Texan]

Walter 4.4 speed? Not even close...

MID 4.4; not 4.4 on the dot.

OK, so some of us are in constant draft mode and can only recount the numbers from either the combine or their pro day.

http://40-yard-dash-times.com/kevin-walter-40-yard-dash-time.html

http://40-yard-dash-times.com/houston-texans-2009.html

As time goes by, I have no idea where he is at.
But then again, it doesn't seem like AJ has lost much.

A mid 4.4 (ie. 4.45) is nothing in the NFL anyway.

 

[76Texan]

As a draft guy, I must note that I don't "believe" in all the combine or pro day numbers (especially the pro days).

The tracks are not always the same.
The wind factor, the gears, etc.

The main idea is that you have to look at how fast the guy run a certain route on the actual playing field.

Walter is neither fast nor slow.
But he's fast enough to burn a DB (who may have some cushion on him) due to his good route running.

That two-man route example I had in screen shots was a good example.
I don't know if it's still there at photobucket; I haven't post anything there for a long time.

 

[Texn4life]

A mid 4.4 (ie. 4.45) is nothing in the NFL anyway.

I would argue otherwise. A guy with Kevin's size running a 4.45 is impressive. The first link says it was at his pro day which can always be a little off sometimes depending on the elements. But I really don't care though about his 40 time. They're completely overrated. The point is he does fit in this offense and at some point he's going to make plays for us. I like what Kubiak has showed on offense thus far with utilizing our young kids and bringing in fresh talent so Walter isn't the main focus as a #2.

 

[Texn4life]

As a draft guy, I must note that I don't "believe" in all the combine or pro day numbers (especially the pro days).

The tracks are not always the same.
The wind factor, the gears, etc.

It's almost like you were in my head.

 

[EllisUnit]

I guess we would have so many ways to beat teams if the replacement refs miss the 12 men on the field...

haha dont mean all at the same time, just showing our versatility as far as weapons haha

 

[Rey]

See, that's pretty much /thread for me, guys. You can come with all the opinions you want, but this man has watched the film. When a Walter hater (not saying we have many, but a couple) watches the film and wants to compare notes, then I'll tune back in with great interest. Until then, your opinion is just as ill informed as mine. Except I admit my opinion is ill informed.

I'd rep you 76, but I'm slack in spreading it around recently.

I don't buy what 76 is selling. If you choose to, that's your prerogative.

With Yates or schaub at qb, Walter has taken a step back receiving wise. This isn't just a one year occurrence.

Sorry, but I don't think schaub is the type of qb or kubiak is the type of coach that would have a guy getting open all the time and not feeding him.

And which is it...is Walter getting open all the time or is he pulling coverage and drawing double or triple teams all the time?

Walter is not a bad player, but he is not the guy to be a full time starter. Not if you want your offense to reach it's maximum potential.

 

[eriadoc]

I don't buy what 76 is selling. If you choose to, that's your prerogative.

So watch the All-22 and come with something specific. Because so far, he's the only one in here selling anything of substance. Everyone else (myself included) is selling speculation and conjecture based on things they haven't been able to see before this year, because the TV feed doesn't show it all. I'm not saying 76Texan can't be wrong, but I'd like to see All-22 compared between him and someone who is trying to refute what he's saying, instead of what I've seen so far.

 

[HJam72]

I don't buy what 76 is selling. If you choose to, that's your prerogative.

With Yates or schaub at qb, Walter has taken a step back receiving wise. This isn't just a one year occurrence.

Sorry, but I don't think schaub is the type of qb or kubiak is the type of coach that would have a guy getting open all the time and not feeding him.

And which is it...is Walter getting open all the time or is he pulling coverage and drawing double or triple teams all the time?

Walter is not a bad player, but he is not the guy to be a full time starter. Not if you want your offense to reach it's maximum potential.

I know this much: he's not drawing triple teams "all the time" or even very often--not when A.J. is on the field or A.J. (or a TE) really would be putting up Jerry Rice numbers.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

Did Kevin Walter play against the Saints? That's a very good question because I didn't even hear his name mentioned even one time. Did he register a catch at all? Looking at the box score I see 11 total guys catching a pass but none of them are Walter. Hmm, very odd for a guy who should be open a lot of times.

 

[Grams]

Did Kevin Walter play against the Saints? That's a very good question because I didn't even hear his name mentioned even one time. Did he register a catch at all? Looking at the box score I see 11 total guys catching a pass but none of them are Walter. Hmm, very odd for a guy who should be open a lot of times.

Yes, he was out there - at least once that I saw. But no catches or thrown to that I remember.

 

[BigBull17]

Im tired of hearing about Kevin Walter's run blocking.. if this is the case let's just line a FB out wide.

His primary job is to catch footballs and make plays... so how many catches does he have this preseason? Fact is, he's being out played by two young bucks.. young bucks who are much better playmakers and much more explosive. Also from what I've seen so far, it looks like they know where to be as well.. it's not like they need a map in order to line up.

This offense needs more players who can score from anywhere on the field. Where we don't have to rely on stringing together a bunch of plays. Walter is not that guy.

Not really in our offense. His job is to do the little things and maybe catch a ball a game. Kubiak loves him so he will be here this year. Not saying im in love with the idea, just stating how they feel about him.

 

[HOU-TEX]

He had a very good block on Foster's TD run. Just throwing it out there

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Did Kevin Walter play against the Saints? That's a very good question because I didn't even hear his name mentioned even one time. Did he register a catch at all? Looking at the box score I see 11 total guys catching a pass but none of them are Walter. Hmm, very odd for a guy who should be open a lot of times.

He was out there with the first team almost the entire first half. He came off for a few plays here and there.

He did not make a catch. But he did draw coverage and allow other people to be open and he did block. I don't recall him being targeted at all.

A lot of this offense isn't based on who's open but on who's supposed to be open. That's dictated by Schaub's reading of the defense.

KW has his role on this team. But by mid-season, I don't expect him to be the #2 anymore. And like last year, I don't expect him to end up with the second most catches... I don't expect him to finish in the top 4 in terms of receiving on this team this year.

 

[Carr Bombed]

So watch the All-22 and come with something specific. Because so far, he's the only one in here selling anything of substance. Everyone else (myself included) is selling speculation and conjecture based on things they haven't been able to see before this year, because the TV feed doesn't show it all. I'm not saying 76Texan can't be wrong, but I'd like to see All-22 compared between him and someone who is trying to refute what he's saying, instead of what I've seen so far.

Nope, not doing it. You shouldn't be required to go pay for a service and waste valuable time breaking down every single play just for people to listen to a opinion around here. That's rediculous.. I'll do something like that only if I'm getting compensated to do so.

Watchng all-22 isn't going to change anything around here.. you'll still have two different people watchng the same thing and forming two completely different opinions.. it'll just be with a different medium.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Not really in our offense. His job is to do the little things and maybe catch a ball a game. Kubiak loves him so he will be here this year. Not saying im in love with the idea, just stating how they feel about him.

He is a WR.. #1 duty listed on his job description should be the ability to get seperation and consistently be a available target. If all he's able to do is block down on someone then he needs a much smaller role in the offense ( which I'm sure he'll be getting this season).

With a healthy Andre you can get away with Walter's deficiencies in the passing game, but when 80 went down they became a liability.. one of the reasons why WR was one of the top priorities this offseason.

 

[eriadoc]

Nope, not doing it. You shouldn't be required to go pay for a service and waste valuable time breaking down every single play just for people to listen to a opinion around here.

I listened to your opinion. So did everyone else. We also listened when you said you weren't changing your opinion no matter what. At the end of the day, I hear your opinion and everyone else's, but if I'm weighing them, I'm giving more credence to the guy who's actually watched what's going on vs. the guy sitting around saying he didn't see Walter doing anything. That's all.

 

[thunderkyss]

See, that's pretty much /thread for me, guys. You can come with all the opinions you want, but this man has watched the film.

Last year's Oakland Game, Shaub targeted Jacoby 11 times, not one catch.

He targeted Walter..... 0 times. We lost that game. If KW was getting open & it would have helped us win the game, I'm sure Schaub would have found a way to at least throw the ball his way.

Unless now we're saying Schaub should be replaced.

 

[eriadoc]

Last year's Oakland Game, Shaub targeted Jacoby 11 times, not one catch.

He targeted Walter..... 0 times. We lost that game. If KW was getting open & it would have helped us win the game, I'm sure Schaub would have found a way to at least throw the ball his way.

Unless now we're saying Schaub should be replaced.

You're sure? We have a guy in the thread who has watched 9 games from last year on the All-22 and said Walter was open, and you're sure?

 

[thunderkyss]

You're sure? We have a guy in the thread who has watched 9 games from last year on the All-22 and said Walter was open, and you're sure?

Are you saying we need to replace Schaub? Because I can find 72,000 fans who knew Jacoby wasn't going to catch those 11 passes. If nothing else, he should have figured it out after the third one... & hit the open KW.........


just saying.

 

[Rey]

Are you saying we need to replace Schaub? Because I can find 72,000 fans who knew Jacoby wasn't going to catch those 11 passes. If nothing else, he should have figured it out after the third one... & hit the open KW.........


just saying.

haha

C'mon Eriadoc....

You have to admit, that's pretty funny...

 

[Carr Bombed]

I listened to your opinion. So did everyone else. We also listened when you said you weren't changing your opinion no matter what. At the end of the day, I hear your opinion and everyone else's, but if I'm weighing them, I'm giving more credence to the guy who's actually watched what's going on vs. the guy sitting around saying he didn't see Walter doing anything. That's all.

So thanks to "all-22" we've now formed a elitist group who's "opinion matters more"... that's if you feel like paying more and have a crap load of time to waste. Gotcha.

You keep listening to excuses why Walter is effective soley on him being the greatest blocker to ever walk the earth and I'll just sit here and wait for somebody who can raise the production level at that position.

 

[eriadoc]

Are you saying we need to replace Schaub?

Not saying that at all, and I don't think one has to do with the other. One thing I've been saying all thread long is we don't really know what the design or intent is of any given play. Now that the All-22 is available, we can learn a couple things, such as what the routes are and who is open. But we still can't know why Walter wasn't targeted. If you want to pin that on Schaub, go for it. I'm not there. I just know that we have two pieces of information right now - Walter was open a lot more than we realized and yet he wasn't targeted. Reconcile that how you will.

If you think 76Texan is lying about Walter being open, then report back with your All-22 analysis. I may be getting it myself in the next week or two, so I plan to spend a little time going over last season's games.

 

[eriadoc]

So thanks to "all-22" we've now formed a elitist group who's "opinion matters more"... that's if you feel like paying more and have a crap load of time to waste. Gotcha.

You keep listening to excuses why Walter is effective soley on him being the greatest blocker to ever walk the earth and I'll just sit here and wait for somebody who can raise the production level at that position.

You're still sticking with the faulty assumption that you started with. Walter is producing the way they want him to. It's not the production you want, and as I have repeatedly said, I want a WR who makes plays int he receiving game. The difference between you and me in this regard is I am just trying to understand what the heck the team is doing with Walter and how that may or may not translate to incoming young WRs. You're just doggedly stuck on this notion that the #2 WR should have 800-1000 yards receiving and the player is a failure if he doesn't deliver that. I don't think that's the role that's been laid out for him, and it would appear that the film at least bolsters that assertion.

You have nothing bolstering your assertion besides stats, which are simply a byproduct of the coaches' role for Walter.

 

[thunderkyss]

Not saying that at all, and I don't think one has to do with the other. One thing I've been saying all thread long is we don't really know what the design or intent is of any given play.

I think they are both related. The Oakland game was real. We should have wanted to win. Schaub should be looking for the open receiver.

If you think 76Texan is lying about Walter being open, then report back with your All-22 analysis. I may be getting it myself in the next week or two, so I plan to spend a little time going over last season's games.

I don't think he's lying at all.... but maybe his idea of open isn't the same as Schaub's idea of open & his is the one that counts. Besides, 76 may not be able to post video, but he's mastered the art of the screen shot & has the photobucket account to prove it.

 

[eriadoc]

haha

C'mon Eriadoc....

You have to admit, that's pretty funny...

As a long time Jacoby hater and early member of the hater club, I do find it funny LOL. And I admit to being as perplexed as y'all on why the hell Schaub would ever target that crappy ass WR, but then I repeatedly questioned why Kubiak kept putting him out there in the Ravens game too. Players and coaches do stuff that we fans think are stupid sometimes. *shrug*

 

[eriadoc]

I don't think he's lying at all.... but maybe his idea of open isn't the same as Schaub's idea of open....

Well, I don't want this thread to devolve into a definition of what constitutes "open" int he NFL, but I think we can all agree that a step is all you need sometimes.

 

[GP]

Nope, not doing it. You shouldn't be required to go pay for a service and waste valuable time breaking down every single play just for people to listen to a opinion around here. That's rediculous.. I'll do something like that only if I'm getting compensated to do so.

Watchng all-22 isn't going to change anything around here.. you'll still have two different people watchng the same thing and forming two completely different opinions.. it'll just be with a different medium.

This ^^^^^.

/Debate.

 

[Carr Bombed]

You're still sticking with the faulty assumption that you started with. Walter is producing the way they want him to. It's not the production you want, and as I have repeatedly said, I want a WR who makes plays int he receiving game. The difference between you and me in this regard is I am just trying to understand what the heck the team is doing with Walter and how that may or may not translate to incoming young WRs. You're just doggedly stuck on this notion that the #2 WR should have 800-1000 yards receiving and the player is a failure if he doesn't deliver that. I don't think that's the role that's been laid out for him, and it would appear that the film at least bolsters that assertion.

You have nothing bolstering your assertion besides stats, which are simply a byproduct of the coaches' role for Walter.

How the hell is my "assumption" faulty, but yours is not? First of all you're sitting there assuming "Walter is producing the only way they want him to" and they don't expect more production from that position. Did Kubes tell you that? Or did 76 get to sit in during a meeting and then phone you up? Your opinion is no less of a assumption as mine. WRs who do everything the coach expects from them to don't get asked to take a cut in pay..

As far as these 800-1000 WRs you keep saying I'm hung up on, Walter used to be one. I guess more was expected then huh? When Walter was producing up to that standard I didn't have a problem with him. When he couldn't even break the 500 mark with Andre out and with Jones on the team I did.. because it became blatantly obvious how badly we needed to upgrade the position. If you and others want to bury your head and act like it's not possible to greatly upgrade the position.. then do so, but don't get mad when others feel like we can or feel that Walter isn't irreplaceable.

 

[eriadoc]

How the hell is my "assumption" faulty, but yours is not? First of all you're sitting there assuming "Walter is producing the only way they want him to" and they don't expect more production from that position.

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time following the conversation. To make it easy for you, I'll just quote myself from a few different posts.

Except I admit my opinion is ill informed.

Everyone else (myself included) is selling speculation and conjecture based on things they haven't been able to see before this year, because the TV feed doesn't show it all.

One thing I've been saying all thread long is we don't really know what the design or intent is of any given play. Now that the All-22 is available, we can learn a couple things ...

The difference between you and me in this regard is I am just trying to understand what the heck the team is doing with Walter and how that may or may not translate to incoming young WRs.

Maybe it would work better in another language? I aim to accommodate. As for the greatly upgrade comment, I have made it abundantly clear that I too want to see that, and Lestar Jean is the guy I have targeted to fill that role. This really shouldn't be all that difficult to understand.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Another thing I don't understand about this whole "he's doing what's expected of him" argument..

I'll go ahead and assume he's doing that.. However how does that prove that the Texans wouldn't like more from that position? Chuck Hayes was one of my favorite Rockets and he also did everything that was expected of him, because like Walter he was also limited. They certainly didn't expect him to lead the team in paint points or blocks.. but that doesn't mean they were content or weren't looking for a upgrade. Walter is the same way. He's doing everything they expect out of him most likely, because that's all they think he can do. He's being put in a role that he can contribute in, because if they tried to give him a bigger role he most likely wouldn't succeed.

 

[eriadoc]

Another thing I don't understand about this whole "he's doing what's expected of him" argument..

I'll go ahead and assume he's doing that.. However how does that prove that the Texans wouldn't like more from that position? Chuck Hayes was one of my favorite Rockets and he also did everything that was expected of him, because like Walter he was also limited. They certainly didn't expect him to lead the team in paint points or blocks.. but that doesn't mean they were content or weren't looking for a upgrade. Walter is the same way. He's doing everything they expect out of him most likely, because that's all they think he can do.

That's possible. Hell, I'll even go with probable. But that doesn't answer the two questions I keep asking:

1.) If he's been open, as has been reported by 76Texan, why are they not targeting him more often?

2.) If this is the role they envision for the #2 WR, even to a somewhat lesser degree, do we see Jean and/or Martin doing those sorts of things?

See, you've basically decided, based on nothing. I'm still trying to understand, based on what used to be nothing, but now is actual game tape. That's really our only divide. The results may temper my expectations, or they may bolster my suspicion that Walter is just not getting the job done.

 

[Rey]

That's possible. Hell, I'll even go with probable. But that doesn't answer the two questions I keep asking:

1.) If he's been open, as has been reported by 76Texan, why are they not targeting him more often?

2.) If this is the role they envision for the #2 WR, even to a somewhat lesser degree, do we see Jean and/or Martin doing those sorts of things?

See, you've basically decided, based on nothing. I'm still trying to understand, based on what used to be nothing, but now is actual game tape. That's really our only divide. The results may temper my expectations, or they may bolster my suspicion that Walter is just not getting the job done.

The "this is what the texans want from a number two" thing is a fallacy. It's a fairytale made up to justify Kevin Walter's diminishing returns in this offense.

Kevin Walter used to catch a lot of passes for a lot of yards. Did their philosophy change or has Kevin Walter just not been as good as he had been?

When kubiak first got here he went out and got Eric moulds for the number two role. Was he supposed to be the "blocking wr"?

If you are going to start Kevin Walter and not expect or even want him to catch passed when he is "consistently getting open", why are you drafting two young wr's to pair up with a promising young player in Jean?

Why would you ask a player to take a pay cut that is doing everything you want them to?

I've heard all kind if stories to explain this, but what I find most likely is that he has not been as good as he used to be and therefore they reduced his salary.


Geez...you guys make Walter sound like one if the best wr's in the game...great hands, runs great routes, "mid 4.4 speed", gets open all the time AND draws triple teams to get other guys open....plus he blocks like a TE an knows exactly what to do and where to be....

Are we talking about kw or someone I created on madden?? Screw Kevin. From now on he is Super Walter. Super Walter to the rescue.

He does all that and yet his salary was reduced.

I can see it now: "hey super...we know you are doing everything we want you do do, you're one of the hardest workers we have, you are filling your role EXACTLY how we envisioned......but we're going to have to dock your pay. We realize there are other guys that don't work as hard and aren't filling their roles like you, but since we know you aren't spiteful and envious we will dock your pay instead of theirs....deal?"

So on top of bring fast, strong, fundamentally sound, hard working, able to get open a bunch and draw double and Tripple teams hes also enough of a team player to take a pay cut so some other not as deserving player can keep their salary.

Super Walter to the f'n rescue.

 

[eriadoc]

Geez...you guys make Walter sound like one if the best wr's in the game...great hands, runs great routes, "mid 4.4 speed", gets open all the time AND draws triple teams to get other guys open....plus he blocks like a TE an knows exactly what to do and where to be....

Are we talking about kw or someone I created on madden??

I think I've made it clear that I don't think that.

Answer question #1 from the post above, please.

 

[Corrosion]

76 or Dutch ... can you post the wide view of Martin's TD catch against the Aints ?

 

[Rey]

I think I've made it clear that I don't think that.

Answer question #1 from the post above, please.

How about he's not getting open as much as 76 has led you to believe????

Seriously?

We have a guy that is consistently getting open and we make a conscious decision not to throw him the ball?

How about, no.


That makes absolutely no sense.

First, it was he's not getting open because that's not his role.

Now, he actually does get open a bunch but schaub and kubiak don't care. They are not going to throw the ball to him and instead settle for punts, field goals and whatever else they can scrounge up.

 

[eriadoc]

How about he's not getting open as much as 76 has led you to believe????

OK, so you think 76Texan is not telling the truth. Fair enough. I want to see someone like you, who holds that belief, post some evidence from the All-22. That's pretty much what I've been saying for a while now.

First, it was he's not getting open because that's not his role.

And that was, as I have made abundantly clear, speculation and conjecture based on basically nothing. NOW THAT WE HAVE SOMEONE POSTING FEEDBACK FROM THE ALL-22, it seems that the evidence has changed. Unlike some of the posters here, my opinions change with evidence. All I'm really asking for is some evidence to support your assertion so that I can continue to shape my opinion.

Sheesh, you wouldn't think getting your point across would be this difficult. As I said earlier, I plan on getting the All-22 soon, so I'll be going through some games as well.

 

[76Texan]

How about he's not getting open as much as 76 has led you to believe????

Seriously?

We have a guy that is consistently getting open and we make a conscious decision not to throw him the ball?

How about, no.


That makes absolutely no sense.

First, it was he's not getting open because that's not his role.

Now, he actually does get open a bunch but schaub and kubiak don't care. They are not going to throw the ball to him and instead settle for punts, field goals and whatever else they can scrounge up.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...ers/56671564/1

"If you ask anyone in our locker room who's the most underrated player, the most important player or the unsung hero of our team, it's Kevin," Texans quarterback Matt Schaub said. "Every time, hands down. No question."


While the statistics might ebb in one direction or the other, to Schaub they represent balance.
"We have a ton of weapons, and I don't think people really see that," he said. "They see a passing game, not an offense. They don't see the total package.

 

[Rey]

OK, so you think 76Texan is not telling the truth.

No, I didn't say that.


This is almost like someone telling me they saw a flying pig...they say that they actually saw it...with their own two eyes

Maybe you really think you saw a pig flying...But I don't have to see what you saw to conclude that a pig didn't fly.

 

[76Texan]

76 or Dutch ... can you post the wide view of Martin's TD catch against the Aints ?

Maybe Dutch can do it.

Walter was in the right slot and Martin was wide right.

Martin ran a quick slant in.

Walter ran a quick out and pick-off the LCB.
This springs KMart free to make the catch.

Why not the role reversal?
You will have to ask Kubiak.

Personally, I'm thinking, anybody - even a rookie - can run a quick slant and catch the easy pass when he's wide open.

It takes an experience WR to run the pick as not to be called Offensive PI.