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Hopkins traded to Cardinals?

KoolAid Sipper said:
Understood your points in the entire post, but is this really how you think he portrays himself in the SI article?

LOL, you're better than that, you typically expound on your thoughts and not just run with something for the sake of it.
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I don't want the person with Nuk's mindset in that article on my team if I'm Cal, why? Because you can't win with them. They aren't leaders and will fold when it counts the most.

After 51-7 it was time for change. That includes BOB/DW4/Nuk etc ..
 
steelbtexan said:
I don't want the person with Nuk's mindset in that article on my team if I'm Cal, why? Because you can't win with them. They aren't leaders and will fold when it counts the most.

After 51-7 it was time for change. That includes BOB/DW4/Nuk etc ..
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If this is what you really think, then no more complaints about the Texans not acquiring guys with character flaws. Dude, you flip-flop w/ the best of them.
 
dream_team said:
If this is what you really think, then no more complaints about the Texans not acquiring guys with character flaws. Dude, you flip-flop w/ the best of them.
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There's a big difference between acquiring guys with character flaws like Kelce/Hil) and those guys being team leaders like Nuk was.
 
dream_team said:
The first half of your post is correct... none of us know how that conversation went down, all we know is how Nuk interpreted it.

But then in the second half of your post, you're telling us how we should interpret it.

Listen to your own words, no one knows the tone & context. Don't pretend you know that BOB tried to be the good guy, but Nuk didn't care. Unless you really are BOB, which would make alot of sense.
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No, I’m saying use your common sense. Theres virtually no way you can read what u guys are trying to read into that conversation what ya’ll are trying to read into it.....unless you wholeheartedly believe that BoB basically just pulled Nuk in for a conversation ......JUST to berate him. Furthermore do you honestly think Nuk would be quiet about that in the SI article? Pretty sure the writer asked him about it. Remember this is the same guy who walked out of a practice b/c the owner of the team chose poor wording in describing a situation. No way in hell Nuk doesn’t take a shot at BoB or at the very least launches a subliminal at him if that conversation was anything other than a poor attempt by BoB to create a relationship with him.

let u guys tell it though, that conversation was all about BoB trying to **** on Nuk..
 
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KoolAid Sipper said:
Understood your points in the entire post, but is this really how you think he portrays himself in the SI article?

LOL, you're better than that, you typically expound on your thoughts and not just run with something for the sake of it.
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maybe it’s him...maybe it’s the guy who wrote the article trying to make him appear that way I don’t know. But he said and mentioned a few things in the piece that speak to him being a guy who “takes pride in doing what’s right no matter the consequences”...The mention of how he went out and bought a bunch of Kaepernick Jersies during that whole thing just to prove a point. Everything from how and why he wears his hair like he does speaks to a guy who takes pride in bucking the norms and social morays...Then there’s his history....walking out of practice after the McNair comments.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with any of that....more power to him..I wish more people had the conviction he appears to have..but sometimes, those types of things do run contrary to the big picture. In this case, his agendas of getting more money and the other stuff started to run contrary to what BoB was/is trying to do with the team...and he knew it that’s why he was ready to go.
 
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Mr teX said:
No, I’m saying use your common sense. Theres virtually no way you can read what u guys are trying to read into that conversation what ya’ll are trying to read into it.....unless you wholeheartedly believe that BoB basically just pulled Nuk in for a conversation ......JUST to berate him. Furthermore do you honestly think Nuk would be quiet about that in the SI article? Pretty sure the writer asked him about it. Remember this is the same guy who walked out of a practice b/c the owner of the team chose poor wording in describing a situation. No way in hell Nuk doesn’t take a shot at BoB or at the very least launches a subliminal at him if that conversation was anything other than a poor attempt by BoB to create a relationship with him.

let u guys tell it though, that conversation was all about BoB trying to **** on Nuk..
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Plus they fail to put into the conversation that Nuk's issues with BOB conveniently began when his guaranteed $$$$. ran out. Funny how that works.
 
I try to see things from both sides of the coin. Hopkins new deal made it to the no guaranteed money stage while Hopkins was still an All Pro WR and top 3 NFL WR. He has to look out for his interest as well b/c a career ending injury can happen on any play. There was never an issue with Hopkins off the field activities, at least publicly, until he sought a raise. If any of this had been an issue it should've been mentioned far sooner than when Hopkins asked for a raise. It really comes off as a slimy smear campaign. There were better ways to handle this publicly.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I try to see things from both sides of the coin. Hopkins new deal made it to the no guaranteed money stage while Hopkins was still an All Pro WR and top 3 NFL WR. He has to look out for his interest as well b/c a career ending injury can happen on any play. There was never an issue with Hopkins off the field activities, at least publicly, until he sought a raise. If any of this had been an issue it should've been mentioned far sooner than when Hopkins asked for a raise. It really comes off as a slimy smear campaign. There were better ways to handle this publicly.
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Smear campaign on both sides....
 
OptimisticTexan said:
If any of this had been an issue it should've been mentioned far sooner than when Hopkins asked for a raise.
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How do we know it didn't? This isn't the kind of thing the club or the player would make public until it comes to a head. In one of the earliest articles it said Hopkins was asking about more money before the 2019 season & after BO'b told him he did in fact out perform his contract, but they can't pay him (won't pay him).

& while Hopkins may not have a problem with his hanger-ons, he'd normally be the last person to know. I don't know that it is BO'bs place to tell him, but if it were me I'd feel responsible to do so.

I too, want to look at this objectively from both sides. Hopkins wanted out. BO'b wasn't compelled to keep him. That's it.
 
thunderkyss said:
How do we know it didn't? This isn't the kind of thing the club or the player would make public until it comes to a head. In one of the earliest articles it said Hopkins was asking about more money before the 2019 season & after BO'b told him he did in fact out perform his contract, but they can't pay him (won't pay him).

& while Hopkins may not have a problem with his hanger-ons, he'd normally be the last person to know. I don't know that it is BO'bs place to tell him, but if it were me I'd feel responsible to do so.

I too, want to look at this objectively from both sides. Hopkins wanted out. BO'b wasn't compelled to keep him. That's it.
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And that’s really how it should be looked at.

We as fans tend to side with a player B/C that’s who we cheer for primarily; the plays he makes on the field. We by THEIR jerseys.

Fans don’t cheers for a decision or a play call a coach makes during games. Noone’s buying sideline headsets or visors b/c of their teams head coach.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I guess this is O'Brien-driven......

The "Gruden" visor name arbitrarily given to the Raiders version is just that.........arbitrary/generic labeling..........for a cap style that has been available to every NFL team for years.
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Does O'Brien wear a visor?
Is Gruden known for wearing a visor?

And so seems rather less 'arbitrary' or 'generic' as much as deliberate and specific..
 
According to the articles I have read, Hopkins was fine with everything for awhile. But then as his ability shined through and money came in...he didn't like the run the ball mentality. He felt he was underutilized yet asked for a new deal and more money. As a team leader, you don't want that. If he was a role player, fine. So, yes the trade at first looked bad and maybe for what we got, unless Hopkins said he would not play unless he got more money. It still looks bad, but it seems like Cal was set on getting rid of him and the Cards were the only team who offered something that could turn into a good deal. Time will tell, by mid season not OBs season or two.
 
disaacks3 said:
LMAO

Riiight. I'm sure it was Hopkins camp that leaked those sudden (after several Pro Bowls) work ethic concerns.
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I'm glad they are cleaning house. The BB way.

BOB probably won't get to see the fruit's of this, but it's the right thing to do.

Cleaning the stench RS left on this franchise will position the next GM/HC for success and this will happen. It's just going to take 2-3 yrs for BoB to clean house and the future will be much brighter for the next regime.

It will take awhile to correct 12 yrs of poor MGMT.
 
DeAndre Hopkins: I know I’m the best wide receiver in the NFL
Posted by Michael David Smith on May 28, 2020, 5:47 PM EDT

Cardinals wide receiver Deandre Hopkins says he’s the top pass catcher in football, and that his numbers would dwarf those of other star receivers if he had played his entire career with an elite quarterback.

Hopkins said on ESPN that there is no doubt in his mind where he ranks.

“I definitely think I’m the best,” Hopkins said. “I know I’m the best.”

Hopkins has never led the league in catches or yards, but he said that’s a reflection of the offenses he has played in. Hopkins said he would have better numbers than Saints wide receiver Michael Thomas or Falcons wide receiver Julio Jones if he had their quarterbacks.

“Mike’s my boy. We were just texting yesterday. But he knows if I had Drew Brees my whole career what these numbers would be,” Hopkins said. “Julio Jones knows if I had Matt Ryan my whole career, he knows what my numbers would be. Those guys are definitely blessed to be in a position where their whole career they had a Pro Bowl quarterback.”
The Cardinals traded for Hopkins in the hopes that he and Kyler Murray can become an elite quarterback-receiver duo for years to come. And perhaps Hopkins can work in an offense that gives him the chance to put up the best numbers of any wide receiver in the NFL.
 
An extensive recent ProFootballFocus article. Wonder where "the best WR in the NFL" is? :

******************************************************************************

Ranking the NFL’s most efficient wide receivers from 2019
By Sam Monson
May 28, 2020

Wide receiver production can be summed up in just a few box-score statistics: receptions, yardage and touchdowns. But while that might give you an indication of a wideout's broad production, what about how efficient they were in amassing those statistics? Efficiency metrics for wide receivers provide a better indicator of which players can repeat those box-score data points going forward and which are likely to see a regression in their overall production.

YARDS PER ROUTE RUN
One of the most predictive data points around, yards per route run (YPPR) applies some context to broader production numbers and is one of the simplest data points available. Instead of just looking at cumulative production totals, let’s look at how much production receivers had per play where they were out in a passing pattern. This YPPR figure shows not only which receivers produced efficiently, beyond just an overwhelming weight of opportunities, but also indirectly folds target share into the equation. If a receiver doesn’t receive a high percentage of the team’s available targets when he is on the field, he will struggle to attain a high yards per route run figure.
Yards Per Route Run Among Wide Receivers | 2019
PlayerYards Per Route Run
1. Michael Thomas2.88
2. Stefon Diggs2.69
3. A.J. Brown2.67
4. Tyreek Hill2.45
5. Julio Jones2.44
6. Davante Adams2.33
7. Mike Evans2.30
8. Amari Cooper2.29
9. Chris Godwin2.24
10. Michael Gallup2.16
*Minimum 50 targets during the 2019 regular season


This is a statistical category that has been absolutely owned by Julio Jones since he entered the league, and 2019 represented the first season in five years that he didn’t end as the top name on the list. Michael Thomas was the most efficient receiver in football in terms of yards per route run, but Stefon Diggs and rookie A.J. Brown were hot on his heels. Brown’s number is hugely encouraging for Titans fans but certainly relied on an unsustainable level of quarterback play from Ryan Tannehill that will almost certainly regress in 2020. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers didn’t just have two of the highest-graded receivers in the league, but also two of the most efficient by this measure.

PFF RECEIVING GRADE
As always at PFF, we circle back to the grades. For as much work as you can do with conventional statistics, the grades will always add in a layer of context that numbers miss along the way. Our data scientists have shown that including grades — even though they include a degree of subjective framework — increases the predictive power of the data because they factor in things that regular data points disregard.
For receivers, our grading system allows us to include a qualitative measure of what the player had to do to earn yardage that is independent of the defense or the quarterback. Did the receiver have to go up and rescue a poorly thrown ball to get the catch, or was it a perfect dime dropped in against a busted coverage? These don’t matter when you’re just recording the result of the play, but they are significantly important in analyzing how impressive the receiver’s performance was and how likely it is to repeat.
PFF Receiving Grade Among Wide Receivers | 2019
PlayerPFF Receiving Grade
1. Michael Thomas90.7
2. Chris Godwin90.4
3. Julio Jones90.3
4. Tyreek Hill87.8
5. DeAndre Hopkins87.8
6. Terry McLaurin86.5
7. Mike Evans85.2
8. Davante Adams84.4
9. Amari Cooper84.2
10. A.J. Brown83.0
*Minimum 50 targets during the 2019 regular season


Michael Thomas again tops the list with the highest PFF receiving grade during the regular season, and the same thing remains true when including the playoffs.
A.J. Brown again makes this list, but this time he is joined by fellow rookie Terry McLaurin, highlighting the difference between pure statistics and the qualitative — albeit subjective — context grades can add. Brown was more efficient than McLaurin, but on the other hand, he had a quarterback playing as well as any other in the league for at least half the season. McLaurin never saw plus quarterback play at any stage of his rookie year, so his efficiency numbers suffered. But when looking at what he did independent from everything else, he fares far better.

PASSER RATING WHEN TARGETED
Passer rating is a very flawed data point, but it does tell us a lot if we’re willing to acknowledge what it is measuring, and perhaps more importantly, what it is not measuring. It is not simply a quarterback measurement, but rather one of the passing offense as a whole. Passer rating heavily weights big plays on both ends of the scale — touchdowns and explosive plays boost the number a lot while interceptions drag it down.
These building blocks can all be heavily influenced by a variety of different factors and players, from the receivers and quarterbacks all the way to the defense.
Passer Rating When Targeted Among Wide Receivers | 2019
PlayerPasser Rating When Targeted
1. Mecole Hardman153.9
2. Marquise Brown134.4
3. Adam Thielen131.9
4. A.J. Brown127.6
5. Tyler Lockett127.0
6. Kenny Stills126.4
7. Michael Thomas123.3
8. Chris Godwin121.7
9. Kendrick Bourne121.1
10. Deebo Samuel120.2
*Minimum 50 targets during the 2019 regular season

Here, we see a couple of big-play and deep threats leap to the top of the list, with Mecole Hardman leading the way. Passes sent his way last season earned an almost perfect passer rating of 153.9. Adam Thielen also appears on the list despite a relative down year for him by virtue of the fact that Kirk Cousins didn’t throw a single interception on passes where Thielen was the target.
Chris Godwin — playing with Jameis Winston — was the only player in the top 10 with more than two passes sent his way going for interceptions. But thanks to nine touchdowns and over 1,300 yards, he was still able to put up a top-10 passer rating in the league when targeted. Terry McLaurin didn’t make the top 10 but ranked just outside it at 12th, again highlighting how impressive his performance was in Year 1 despite iffy quarterback play.

CATCH RATE
Catch rate is another statistic dependent on other things — with depth of target being the most obvious — but still shows a degree of efficiency from receivers even if role is a significant factor.
Catch Rate Among Wide Receivers | 2019
PlayerCatch Rate
1. Michael Thomas82.8%
2. Adam Humphries78.7%
3. Tyler Lockett75.9%
4. Olabisi Johnson75.6%
5. Kenny Stills75.5%
6. Chris Godwin75.4%
7. Deebo Samuel74.0%
8. Hunter Renfrow73.1%
9. Mecole Hardman72.2%
10. Larry Fitzgerald72.1%
*Minimum 35 targets during the 2019 regular season


THE REST OF THE STORY
 
my focus areas are catches versus targets, yards per catch average, yards after catch and Tds. Watching players rounds out rest of knowledge of receivers and QB.
 
Interesting that DHop (the best WR in the NFL) is only in the top ten in PFF grade but none other
 
I guess it's a double-edged sword. I still dislike the trade, but, I get that from a business perspective, you can't pay everyone what they think they deserve, especially if a team has multiple star players.

That said, I kinda' wish JJ's money was going toward Nuk. *gasp!* I don't think JJ will live up to his paycheck, all things considered. Big fan of JJ, but just keeping it real.
 
I love Nuk..love what he brought here....love how he conducted himself on/off the field and loved that he was on my favorite team for all those years......but in comparing him to who he was replacing (AJ) and other guys around the league..namely AJ Green & Julio, He was a clear step down imo & i personally was never enamored with him & never have i ever thought he was the best WR in the game despite his all-pro designations. Certainly amongst the top 3 but never "that" guy...like AJ was all those years for us.

Having said that, i think he's going to produce and do well for the Cards & Kyler Murray will be better for it.

But................another thing that's semingly become a bit clearer is that Nuk was in fact somewhat of a diva..he was just low key with it. When he was initially shipped out, it was leaked that perhaps a reason for that is he wanted more money (That seems to have been solidified with this new "non-holdout" with the Cards.).. Then the SI article comes out and he takes some drive by's at BoB...And slowly but surely it has unitentionally been coming out through various quotes from folks involved with the offense that getting him his targets was somewhat of an unwritten mandate.... being driven by him; like, you as the QB/OC felt compelled to target him a certain number of times throughout the game or you were going to here about it from him on the sideline in some form or fashion.

I have nothing against him trying to get his money, i just have somewhat of an issue with guys misrepresenting the situation. When he was shipped out, he tried to make it seem like the big issue was how he couldn't jive with BoB...same way Clowney and his PR folks tried to do it...now, after some time, its becoming more clear...it was in fact about the money.
 
I've watched/read a lot of opinions about it over the last few months, and there seems to be a general consensus among analysts that he was becoming a crutch for Watson (even holding onto the ball too long to get Nuk open). If true, what could also play into it is the pressure to feed him the ball in order to get his targets and catches to a certain threshold (as mentioned by Mr teX).

I don't claim to have insight into the inner workings of the Texans and front office, but it is a logically safe assumption that this could be true based on pro football history. This would not be the first time that a WR has wanted more money and more targets, and that can often unbalance a young QB's perception when they are looking for one player instead of seeing the entire field.

I personally think Watson has all the physical tools to play the game at a high level, but he's still human and prone to the influence of a veteran star player in his huddle.

We should know a lot more this season, and I'm hoping that Watson shows a full understanding of the scheme and does what he's supposed to do with quick releases to open players. Defenses always have opportunities, and a good QB and offense will consistently take what the defense is giving them. A QB can't do that when always locked onto one receiver that gets consistently double-covered.

I've always liked Nuk, and I'll miss him, but what's done is done. He's gone, and hopefully not to the detriment of the 2020 Texans.
 
Double Barrel said:
I've watched/read a lot of opinions about it over the last few months, and there seems to be a general consensus among analysts that he was becoming a crutch for Watson (even holding onto the ball too long to get Nuk open). If true, what could also play into it is the pressure to feed him the ball in order to get his targets and catches to a certain threshold (as mentioned by Mr teX).

I don't claim to have insight into the inner workings of the Texans and front office, but it is a logically safe assumption that this could be true based on pro football history. This would not be the first time that a WR has wanted more money and more targets, and that can often unbalance a young QB's perception when they are looking for one player instead of seeing the entire field.

I personally think Watson has all the physical tools to play the game at a high level, but he's still human and prone to the influence of a veteran star player in his huddle.

We should know a lot more this season, and I'm hoping that Watson shows a full understanding of the scheme and does what he's supposed to do with quick releases to open players. Defenses always have opportunities, and a good QB and offense will consistently take what the defense is giving them. A QB can't do that when always locked onto one receiver that gets consistently double-covered.

I've always liked Nuk, and I'll miss him, but what's done is done. He's gone, and hopefully not to the detriment of the 2020 Texans.
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You look at some of the WTF throws DW4 made to him over the last 2 years and you wonder if it was a case of him being influenced by Nuk telling him to "just throw it up, it don't matter who around me.."

like this one from 2018 at the 3:40 mark...
 
Mr teX said:
You look at some of the WTF throws DW4 made to him over the last 2 years and you wonder if it was a case of him being influenced by Nuk telling him to "just throw it up, it don't matter who around me.."

like this one from 2018 at the 3:40 mark...
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Excellent example. Throwing deep into double coverage was an obvious forced mistake.

I'd love to see the All-22 of that play, just to see if he missed anything or if nobody was open. That was a 2nd & 7, so can't even excuse it as a 4th down INT instead of a punt.

Why did Nuk even give him the signal when he was obviously well covered?
 
I will never forget Hopkins and appreciated his years with Houston. I just wish we had Cardinals 2020 #8 instead of their second round. I would have taken David Johnson's contract for that. Traded down from #8 for Jerry Jeudy and another second round. :smiliedance:
 
I think it’s interesting Hopkins isn’t practicing with the Cardinals. & this quiet protest is being applauded.

Don’t get me wrong, I liked Hopkins as much as the next guy, but it sounds like the rumors surrounding his trade were more true than not & all the crap he was spitting was his one sided bs.

Doesn’t matter how prolific his career may be from here on out, 2nd rounder & David Johnson was probably the best deal we could get.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think it’s interesting Hopkins isn’t practicing with the Cardinals. & this quiet protest is being applauded.

Don’t get me wrong, I liked Hopkins as much as the next guy, but it sounds like the rumors surrounding his trade were more true than not & all the crap he was spitting was his one sided bs.

Doesn’t matter how prolific his career may be from here on out, 2nd rounder & David Johnson was probably the best deal we could get.
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He still is the worst GM we ever had and I thought we couldn’t do worse than Casserly. :hankpalm:
 
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Double Barrel said:
I personally think Watson has all the physical tools to play the game at a high level, but he's still human and prone to the influence of a veteran star player in his huddle.
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Watson may also be prone to the influence of results. Hopkins had a 2.7% drop rate, half of the 5.5% drop rate of Fuller and Stills. Watson had confidence Hop would make the play. Confidence Fuller, Stills, and the new additions (Cooks and Cobb) will have to earn.

Watson may indeed become a better QB without Hopkins. That doesn't necessarily mean he will put up better numbers or the Texans will have a better offense without an All Pro WR.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think it’s interesting Hopkins isn’t practicing with the Cardinals. & this quiet protest is being applauded.
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Why do we care? Cardinals got a screaming good deal, and part of that was known to be a contract upgrade. They knew the score. The savings off Johnson's contract alone could fund Hopkins' redo. I made the same case for the Texans keeping Hopkins and not taking Johnson's contract months ago. No need to rehash that.
 
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