Has Carr Ever Thrown Over The Middle???

[the wonger need food]

He has thrown over the middle quanity wise about on par with everyone else....

But he only averages about 5.7 y/comp. over the middle....

5.7 yards per is well below par.

I think we're confusing throwing downfield over the middle and dump off passes in the middle of the field. There is a huge difference. Throwing down the middle of the field makes the safeties respect that portion of the field so they can't solely focus on receivers outside of the hash marks. That's why AJ is double-covered every play, because the safeties don't have to worry anything in the middle of the field. Dump off passes for 5 yards are generally the LB's responsibility.

 

[GP]

Hillarious.....

There are several earlier threads that vehemently state that stats mean nothing......... Now, all we discussing or comparing are stats....

I guess some people were born to talk out of both sides of their mouths!

ding! ding! ding!

we have a winner.

it's all about stratgeically finding or NOT finding what you want to find or don't want to find as it's related to Carr.

stats are deceiving.

Carr is fourth among active QBs over a 4-year period for rushing yards. Does that stat impress you? It doesn't impress me because it means he's havingto shoulder the load himself and take off running due to breakdown in protection and the four seasons of inept playcalling that the whole TEAM had to endure.

 

[Runner]

Hillarious.....

There are several earlier threads that vehemently state that stats mean nothing......... Now, all we discussing or comparing are stats....

I guess some people were born to talk out of both sides of their mouths!

Or maybe different people have different takes, so both sides of issues are stated somewhere.

 

[real]

For a team that's last (or near last) in other categories, being in the middle isn't so bad when you keep that in perpsective.

So let's keep it real, OK?

You be real with yourself....

If you want to make yourself believe that Carr is an accomplished "over the middle" passer then go ahead....I really could care less....

All I was pointing out is that all those QB's I put up there average about 225 more yards over the middle than Carr with about the same amount of completions....

If you all can't put 2 and 2 together then so be it....

 

[GP]

5.7 yards per is well below par.

I think we're confusing throwing downfield over the middle and dump off passes in the middle of the field. There is a huge difference. Throwing down the middle of the field makes the safeties respect that portion of the field so they can't solely focus on receivers outside of the hash marks. That's why AJ is double-covered every play, because the safeties don't have to worry anything in the middle of the field. Dump off passes for 5 yards are generally the LB's responsibility.

Read your title: Has he EVER thrown over the middle?

Now it's "Well, it's below average...."

So what. You answered your own question.

I love the rabbit trails that occur around here.

 

[the wonger need food]

That wasn't Wonger's question, broseph.

It was, let me see if I can paraphrase this correctly, "Has Carr EVER thrown over the middle?"

His intent was to say that the guy is incapable of throwing over the middle. Well, I guess we see that he has INDEED thrown over the middle.

Now is it as good as other QBs? No. Is it in the middle of the pack? Appears to be.

For a team that's last (or near last) in other categories, being in the middle isn't so bad when you keep that in perpsective.

So let's keep it real, OK?

Like someone said, "It's just another chance to pick something to bash him about." It's as obvious as the nose on our faces.

Carr has shown that he is incapable of throwing down the middle of the field. Again, throwing for 5-6 yards is not throwing down the middle of the field.

If you took every starting QB in the NFL and compared their YPC in that area of the field I'm guessing that Carr would be closer to the bottom than the middle.

This isn't bashing, it's just pointing out the deficiencies that need to be addressed and corrected if this team is going to have any success winning football games. Just because Carr is mentioned doesn't make it "bashing" or personal.

 

[the wonger need food]

Read your title: Has he EVER thrown over the middle?

Now it's "Well, it's below average...."

So what. You answered your own question.

I love the rabbit trails that occur around here.

Site one pass that Carr has completed down the middle of the field this season. Just one. To qualify it has to be in the air for more than 20 yards and between the hash marks.

 

[real]

JP Losman
Split...............Att.......Comp......Yrd............Pct.
MIDDLE...........7 ...........9 ..........82 .........77.8


Losman has completed 7 less throws than Carr over the middle, yet he has more yards....

simple math...

 

[GP]

You be real with yourself....

If you want to make yourself believe that Carr is an accomplished "over the middle" passer then go ahead....I really could care less....

All I was pointing out is that all those QB's I put up there average about 225 more yards over the middle than Carr with about the same amount of completions....

If you all can't put 2 and 2 together then so be it....

I didn't say he's an "accomplished passer over the middle."

Amazing. You guys are now putting words into my mouth: Which is more proof that YOU guys are trying to see more than what's really there.

Let's take it a step further and see how Denver distributes the ball around the areas of the field.

 

[real]

Hillarious.....

There are several earlier threads that vehemently state that stats mean nothing......... Now, all we discussing or comparing are stats....

I guess some people were born to talk out of both sides of their mouths!

O.K.....Well lets judge Carr off of his on the field success and triumphs and all the intangibles he brings to the game.......





You lose.....

 

[GP]

Site one pass that Carr has completed down the middle of the field this season. Just one. To qualify it has to be in the air for more than 20 yards and between the hash marks.

I've got better thingsto do with my time than sift through film to find thingsthat meet your criteria.

It was YOUR idea, you go do it.

Your question was, "Has he EVER thrown over the middle?"

Where was the Billy Miller TD pass against the Cowboys? It wasn't at the sidelines was it?

So there: There's ONE.

This is too dang easy.

 

[the wonger need food]

I've got better thingsto do with my time than sift through film to find thingsthat meet your criteria.

It was YOUR idea, you go do it.

Your question was, "Has he EVER thrown over the middle?"

Where was the Billy Miller TD pass against the Cowboys? It wasn't at the sidelines was it?

So there: There's ONE.

This is too dang easy.

This season. Just one.

 

[real]

Jake Plummer(Denver)

Split...........Comp.......Att..........Yrds......Pct
MIDDLE .......9 ............18 .........133 ......50.0

He's completed 5 less passes on 6 less attempts.....But he has about 50 more yards...

 

[HOU-TEX]

Collapsing pocket, side-arm delivery and 6' 7" Olinemen and Dlinemen isn't a very good recipe for throwing over the middle. The only way he can get a WR inbetween the hashmarks would be by rolling out of the pocket.

Personally, I'd like to see some stuff over the middle too. having said that, I just want some freakin wins! I don't care who's QB, WR, etc., I just want some W's.

 

[Texan_Bill]

JP Losman
Split...............Att.......Comp......Yrd............Pct.
MIDDLE...........7 ...........9 ..........82 .........77.8


Losman has completed 7 less throws than Carr over the middle, yet he has more yards....

simple math...

Thats great, but.... Why dont we see a split of what the receivers are doing with the ball after they catch it "over the middle".... Or perhaps Carr needs to throw it to himself, and get his YAC.

 

[real]

I didn't say he's an "accomplished passer over the middle."

Amazing. You guys are now putting words into my mouth: Which is more proof that YOU guys are trying to see more than what's really there.

Your absolutely right...He's not accomplished....In fact it's been pathetic....

I am not a stat guy and I kind of like to watch the games to find out who I think is good or isn't good....

Right now David isn't good...He's made mediocre plays, but nothing great....and often he's been poor...

The "carr haters" recognize this just as much as the "Carr lovers"....The only difference is that the "carr lovers" are defending Carr because of HOPE....Because there is no way that it can be from on field production....

 

[dtran04]

For whatever reason, I find myself rooting for Carr even more nowadays....just so the message board quiets down a bit. To be honest, I don't think he's "the guy" either but I find myself rooting for him just to prove people wrong. Most importantly, we'll get wins with his better play.

 

[bah007]

For whatever reason, I find myself rooting for Carr even more nowadays....just so the message board quiets down a bit. To be honest, I don't think he's "the guy" either but I find myself rooting for him just to prove people wrong. Most importantly, we'll get wins with his better play.

I've always found myself rooting for every player on the Texans.

I guess I'm just a fan but I just cant stop rooting for all of them.

 

[Texan_Bill]

What about those of us that are neither Carr haters, nor Carr pimps? Some of us are realists and know that NO quarterback would have succeeded over the last four and a half years given this teams history of coaching, talent level, drafting and free agent acquisitions....or there lack of....

What would be an interesting comparison to me would be Carr vs Manning.... No not that one.. Not that one either, but Archie who played his entire career in a poor situation...

Now that would be apples to apples...

 

[real]

Thats great, but.... Why dont we see a split of what the receivers are doing with the ball after they catch it "over the middle".... Or perhaps Carr needs to throw it to himself, and get his YAC.

Andre Johnson is number 3 in YAC in the AFC....number 12 in the NFL....

 

[Texan_Bill]

Andre Johnson is number 3 in YAC in the AFC....number 12 in the NFL....

I've known that. How many of those balls were "caught over the middle"...

 

[real]

What about those of us that are neither Carr haters, nor Carr pimps? Some of us are realists and know that NO quarterback would have succeeded over the last four and a half years given this teams history of coaching, talent level, drafting and free agent acquisitions....or there lack of....

That's fine...

If you belive that D.Carr's mediocre to poor performances have been BECAUSE of "factors beyond his control" then so be it....

I think that Carr can be sufficient if he starts playing with some consistency, and making plays...I seriously doubt he'll ever be great....

It's year 5 people....

 

[GP]

Your absolutely right...He's not accomplished....In fact it's been pathetic....

I am not a stat guy and I kind of like to watch the games to find out who I think is good or isn't good....

Right now David isn't good...He's made mediocre plays, but nothing great....and often he's been poor...

The "carr haters" recognize this just as much as the "Carr lovers"....The only difference is that the "carr lovers" are defending Carr because of HOPE....Because there is no way that it can be from on field production....

Yeah, and "hoping" is a grave sin around here.

You'd make a great motivational speaker

What's wrong with saying that there is improvement in all aspects from last year to this year?

I'm not saying he's a God. But I cannot stand to see people choosing to go negative on the guy. If that makes me a dork, then so be it.

 

[real]

I've known that. How many of those balls were "caught over the middle"...

4 for 34 yards....

Which means Carr is hitting him with short passes...But c'mon Bill...Be honest with your self how many passes over 15 yards down the middle do you remember Carr throwing...How many times have you seen it this year...Do you really need me to gather stats for this ?

Im not sure where you're going with this but please fill me in...

 

[texan279]

Andre Johnson is number 3 in YAC in the AFC....number 12 in the NFL....

Yeah, number one in the NFL in catches, #12 in the NFL in YAC, and doesn't even rank in the top 50 in the NFL in average yards per catch, that tells me he ain't doing much after the catch.

 

[real]

Yeah, and "hoping" is a grave sin around here.

No hoping is good...But You can hope forever..At some point you gotta produce...

What's wrong with saying that there is improvement in all aspects from last year to this year?

Im pleased with some of the improvement that David and the rest of the team have made....

 

[Texan_Bill]

4 for 34 yards....

Which means Carr is hitting him with short passes...But c'mon Bill...Be honest with your self how many passes over 15 yards down the middle do you remember Carr throwing...How many times have you seen it this year...Do you really need me to gather stats for this ?

Im not sure where you're going with this but please fill me in...

ABSOLUTELY NOT! I don't need anymore stats..PERIOD...

With respect to mediocre QB play, the entire offense is mediocre at best. Thats kinda my point.

You are considering this year 5. I am considering this year one. We actually do have some weapons for a change. The line, while not great has improved (as a result of the schemes) and the QB person is learning a new offense. So, with that said, I am liking what I am starting to see...

To be able throw over the middle, you have to have a running game that people respect. Linebackers not respecting the run can now squat and clog up the middle of the field without having to commit to coming up field to fill.

 

[real]

Yeah, number one in the NFL in catches, #12 in the NFL in YAC, and doesn't even rank in the top 50 in the NFL in average yards per catch, that tells me he ain't doing much after the catch.

StallWorth leads the NFL in YPC and isn't in the top 20 in YAC....

But answer this for me...

Do you think where he gets the ball and how he gets it would be an objective in determining how his YAC would look?

If he were hit in a situation where he didn't have to make multiple guys miss or when he's in traffic do you think his YAC would be higher ?

Losman hit Evans for a long throw but he got great YAC because of where the ball was placed...If Evans slows down just a little Faggins probably tackles him....

A lot of balls to A.J are jump balls...

 

[texan279]

StallWorth leads the NFL in YPC and isn't in the top 20 in YAC....

But answer this for me...

Do you think where he gets the ball and how he gets it would be an objective in determining how his YAC would look?

If he were hit in a situation where he didn't have to make multiple guys miss or when he's in traffic do you think his YAC would be higher ?

Losman hit Evans for a long throw but he got great YAC because of where the ball was placed...If Evans slows down just a little Faggins probably tackles him....

A lot of balls to A.J are jump balls...

Could that be because he rarely gets separation from the DB? Moulds caught several balls Sunday where he was wide open and made positive yardage after the catch.

 

[real]

To be able throw over the middle, you have to have a running game that people respect. Linebackers not respecting the run can now squat and clog up the middle of the field without having to commit to coming up field to fill.

Arizona, Detroit, and Cleveland have the lowest rush yards/game...

Leinart, Kitna, and Frye are crushing Carr in that category....

Why can't that just be something he's not good at ? Why do you have to keep searching for exscuses ?

 

[Texan_Bill]

Could it just be that stats mean nothing except to those trying to make a point in their favor?

Joe Blow averages 1.79 posts on this board per day....
Jane Doe averages .89 posts per day...

Argument a) "Joe is kickin' butt"
Argument b) "Yeah, but Jane's posts are more quality posts"

"after further review, Joe did not make a football move and jane throws down the middle of the field"

Enough stats!!!

 

[real]

Could that be because he rarely gets separation from the DB?

No...I doubt it....

Im not saying A.J is the best WR out there, But A.J is a better WR than Carr is a QB....

This is the NFL...If Carr needs his recievers to constantly get a lot of seperation he needs to go play arena leauge...Check out some other teams this sunday and look at how some other QB's use ball placement...A.J's route running isn't all that, but it seems like most of this guys long catches he always has to jump in the air for...

A.J has good speed...

Carr can afford to take some air off of his throws and hit the guy in stride...

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

I bet Carr looks left first and last ( first is last ) ... thats what it means .

 

[real]

Enough stats!!!

You're right...we can just watch his poor/mediocre play....

We don't need stats for that...

 

[Texan_Bill]

Arizona, Detroit, and Cleveland have the lowest rush yards/game...

Leinart, Kitna, and Frye are crushing Carr in that category....

Why can't that just be something he's not good at ? Why do you have to keep searching for exscuses ?

As I am sure you have, I played for a long time. I played linebacker as a matter of fact.

I would like to use a game that we all will remember quite clearly as an example of what I am talking about.... Texans v. Cowgurls 9/8/2002.

First, Dallas could not run the ball. What did the Texans Linebackers do? They didn't respect the run, and in fact, when Foreman dropped what should have been an easy interception, he was 20+ yards deep. Another play that Sharper broke up, he was 15 to 20 yards deep or at least deep enough that he collided with Coleman. Thats what I was talking about with Linebackers dropping off and clogging the field between the hashes....

Personally I would like to see the offense direct more plays down the middle of the field in the 15 to 20 (or more) yards range. What baffling is that Corey Bradford can catch a game winning bomb between the hashes 5 years ago on a well thrown ball but we can't now... Is that an issue of talent lost (because he made some other really nice throws between the hash marks too)? or is it a matter of different schemes?

 

[Texan_Bill]

You're right...we can just watch his poor/mediocre play....

We don't need stats for that...

LOL.......
Did you pay your $40.00 for the Texans dream job deal? Because with your vast knowledge of football, I am surprised that you have time to post... What with your phone ringing off the hook for NFL GM positions.

 

[texan279]

No...I doubt it....

Im not saying A.J is the best WR out there, But A.J is a better WR than Carr is a QB....

This is the NFL...If Carr needs his recievers to constantly get a lot of seperation he needs to go play arena leauge...Check out some other teams this sunday and look at how some other QB's use ball placement...A.J's route running isn't all that, but it seems like most of this guys long catches he always has to jump in the air for...

A.J has good speed...

Carr can afford to take some air off of his throws and hit the guy in stride...

Because a majority of the time he is being covered by a DB and he should be able to go up and make a play on the ball. Moulds and everyone else seem to be open when Carr throws their way.

 

[real]

Because a majority of the time he is being covered by a DB and he should be able to go up and make a play on the ball. Moulds and everyone else seem to be open when Carr throws their way.

O.K you're right....

David makes great throws to A.J and everyone else is getting more seperation....

All of the other 2 times he's passed to a WR(1 to walker & 1 to moulds) over the middle they had more seperation than Andre....

How about the fact that a majority of Davids over the middle throws have gone to RB's and FB's ?

 

[Texan_Bill]

O.K you're right....

David makes great throws to A.J and everyone else is getting more seperation....

All of the other 2 times he's passed to a WR(1 to walker & 1 to moulds) over the middle they had more seperation than Andre....

How about the fact that a majority of Davids over the middle throws have gone to RB's and FB's ?

It depends... If its less than 10-15 yards - thats the W/C offense...

Can you say Montana to Roger Craig... Well maybe you don't remember the W/C offense back then.....

 

[real]

LOL.......
Did you pay your $40.00 for the Texans dream job deal? Because with your vast knowledge of football, I am surprised that you have time to post... What with your phone ringing off the hook for NFL GM positions.

 

[real]

It depends... If its less than 10-15 yards - thats the W/C offense...

Can you say Montana to Roger Craig... Well maybe you don't remember the W/C offense back then.....

First you say you want to stop talking about stats....then you bring them back up...

If you think Carr=Montana then I totally understand your P.O.V....

 

[texan279]

O.K you're right....

David makes great throws to A.J and everyone else is getting more seperation....

All of the other 2 times he's passed to a WR(1 to walker & 1 to moulds) over the middle they had more seperation than Andre....

How about the fact that a majority of Davids over the middle throws have gone to RB's and FB's ?

I never said Carr's passes were perfect, but if people want Carr to air it out to AJ, he needs to get open every once in awhile, and besides that, in the WCO there are not going to be a lot of long balls thrown. And does it really matter who he throws the ball to?

 

[real]

I never said Carr's passes were perfect, but if people want Carr to air it out to AJ, he needs to get open every once in awhile, and besides that, in the WCO there are not going to be a lot of long balls thrown. And does it really matter who he throws the ball to?

IMO, A.J is a better reciever than Carr is a QB...

Im not as worried about the reciever that "doesn't get seperation" as I am about the QB that's not performing at an acceptable level...

 

[Texan_Bill]

First you say you want to stop talking about stats....then you bring them back up...

If you think Carr=Montana then I totally understand your P.O.V....

What stat did I bring up? I asked you a question directly related to a comment you made. If you are in fact talking about passes under ~ 10-15 yards, I am merely stating that is a function of the offense's philosophy.

LOL, did I ever compare Carr to Montana?... Not hardly... LOL

Anyway, what I am trying to explain to you.... If you would read for a change instead of Knee-jerk reacting, is that the W/C offense does not feature throws down the field in the manner in which you are trying to prove your anti-carr diatribes. This offense is based on shorter routes and ball control....

Again, and this is my personal opinion, I think with the weapons we have in AJ and Moulds, we should at least take a couple of shots down the field to stretch and spread out the congestion in the middle that I was talking about from lack of a (consistent) running game. We should still be able to take these shots, and maintain the integrity of the offense's philosophy. Long passes do not have to be high risk (especially on a corner route, like AJ caught last week in JAX). If he doesn't make that catch on the run, no one does...

 

[texan279]

IMO, A.J is a better reciever than Carr is a QB...

Im not as worried about the reciever that "doesn't get seperation" as I am about the QB that's not performing at an acceptable level...

If you are not worried that our #1 WR cannot get separation I don't know what to tell you. And what exactly has Carr done that is so unacceptable? Did he give up 2 80+ yard TD catches Sunday? Did he fumble at the opponents 13? Oh no that's right, he led 2 70+ yard TD drives after we went down 14-0 in the 1st quarter then was leading a 3rd 7 play drive where he completed 7 passes in a row until our FB fumbled at the Bills' 13 yard line.

 

[Texan_Bill]

IMO, A.J is a better reciever than Carr is a QB...

Im not as worried about the reciever that "doesn't get seperation" as I am about the QB that's not performing at an acceptable level...

Just curious... What came first, the chicken or the egg?

 

[Texan_Bill]

If you are not worried that our #1 WR cannot get separation I don't know what to tell you. And what exactly has Carr done that is so unacceptable? Did he give up 2 80+ yard TD catches Sunday? Did he fumble at the opponents 13? Oh no that's right, he led 2 70+ yard TD drives after we went down 14-0 in the 1st quarter then was leading a 3rd 7 play drive where he completed 7 passes in a row until our FB fumbled at the Bills' 13 yard line.

Both of y'all are crazy on this one... Andre will be making his second pro-bowl appearance and its Carr getting him the ball... Now, if all 11 guys become 1 unit - an offense, we are not even having this conversation.

And it was Carrs fault for not coming over the top in cover 2 on the two 83 yard bombs.... j/k

 

[real]

If you are not worried that our #1 WR cannot get separation ...

Notice the "" marks I surrounded "can't get seperation" with...

Your words....not mine.....

I think he gets enough...

 

[real]

Just curious... What came first, the chicken or the egg?

I'm not sure where that plays into this....A WR getting seperation has nothing to do with a QB that isn't performing up to par...

 

[texan279]

I'm not sure where that plays into this....A WR getting seperation has nothing to do with a QB that isn't performing up to par...

You never answered the question I asked...

And what exactly has Carr done that is so unacceptable? Did he give up 2 80+ yard TD catches Sunday? Did he fumble at the opponents 13? Oh no that's right, he led 2 70+ yard TD drives after we went down 14-0 in the 1st quarter then was leading a 3rd 7 play drive where he completed 7 passes in a row until our FB fumbled at the Bills' 13 yard line.

I keep reading how horrible Carr is but haven't really read why he is so bad...