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Good Carr article on ESPN

Second Honeymoon

Second Honeymoon

Hall of Fame
here is the link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2931784&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos1

very balanced and is probably the first national article I have read about the whole Carr situation that seems to have had any research done on it. It comes across as being both sympathetic to Carr's situation while with the Texans while being critical of him and his shortcomings. Good read.

This quote from Carr is very indicting of the Texans brass. When asked about why the Texans drafted Mario Williams he said:

"People are always going to ask why," Carr says, "and I'm one of those people."
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ouch :( sometimes the truth hurts

I hope Mario reads that quote before every game. Mario's locker needs to have stuff like this pasted all over his locker. He needs some fire.
 
Very good article. At times it makes me feel bad for the guy, but he didn't step up like the article says. After 5 years and crap talent to play with though, I'm guessing even if the best of QB's were in the same situation they may have had the same mindset. After reading this article it makes me wonder how good Carr could have been had he had decent coaches from the beginning. What if Kubiak had gotten the job instead of Capers?
 
Great article and good find SH.. I agree, the article was a pretty fair and balanced analysis.

On another note, I lurked over at one of the Carolina message boards and didn't see anything about the article....
:hmmm:
 
I wish Carr all the best with Carolina. :)

Interesting note about McNair asking candidates how they would use Bush. Is that substantiated or just speculation? To ask such a question but fail to seal the deal on RB just seems strange to me.

p.s.

"People are always going to ask why," Carr says, "and I'm one of those people."
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Another strange quote. He was here. He knew about the holdout and how McNair felt about it. It wasn't that long ago. It seems peculiar to bring up the topic in an article devoted to Carr and his mechanics and new team.
 
that really is a sad story. We often don't even think about the players as people. I wish him all the best in Carolina and hope he does well as long as he isn't playing us.
 
It is a very good article about how inept Capers and Casserly were for the Texans.I guess Andre was right when he said Carr wasn't taught anything until Kubiak got there.Also the article refers to how Kubiak mislead McNair about his feelings of Carr and how he would use Reggie Bush.Kubiak also mislead Sage about taking control of the team when David was released.The article also showed the friction between Kubiak and Carr.Kubiak's intention was all along planning to unload Carr but played him one season so he could tell McNair he tried to work with Carr but that Carr was to far gone from all the sacks he took and couldn't fix him.
 
I see many different things

1. Mechanics are really important if your OL stinks .

2. Do not draft a QB first if your head coach is defensive minded .

3. Do not draft a QB and throw him into the fire ... that's what Kent Graham was for .

4. I think being to good natured can be a bad thing in sports .

5. It's that believing what you see and knowing your great that seperates QBs ... that he did'nt have or it was knocked out of him .

6. I think Bush would have helped but he would have taken a pounding also . Carr was not good at getting the ball where a player gets it on the run in space .
 
petedy said:
It is a very good article about how inept Capers and Casserly were for the Texans.I guess Andre was right when he said Carr wasn't taught anything until Kubiak got there.Also the article refers to how Kubiak mislead McNair about his feelings of Carr and how he would use Reggie Bush.Kubiak also mislead Sage about taking control of the team when David was released.The article also showed the friction between Kubiak and Carr.Kubiak's intention was all along planning to unload Carr but played him one season so he could tell McNair he tried to work with Carr but that Carr was to far gone from all the sacks he took and couldn't fix him.
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You give Kubiak a lot of credit .
 
While Carr was publicly applauded for leading the NFL in completion percentage, his coaches privately dismissed it. According to one former staffer, Kubiak and offensive coordinator Mike Sherman estimated that Carr's panicked progressions cost Johnson at least 500 receiving yards. They exploded on him, berating him in front of teammates. Carr, true to his style, rarely reciprocated with any emotion. But what was once seen as a cool demeanor was now perceived as indifference, which made the coaches angrier. It got so bad that other players in the huddle could hear coaches yelling at Carr through his helmet earpiece. "He never blamed anyone, he never pointed the finger," says Texans left tackle Eric Winston. "But it would be impossible for it not to wear on him."
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good dude...lousy QB. I hope he gets it together. He has all the body you want in a NFL QB.
 
Carr, true to his style, rarely reciprocated with any emotion. But what was once seen as a cool demeanor was now perceived as indifference
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indifference , the lack of emotion, motivation, or enthusiasm; a psychological term for a state of indifference .

I guess it was time for a break .
 
"Broncos offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak had all the right answers. Kubiak even told McNair he was sure the Texans could win a Super Bowl with Carr as their quarterback. So McNair picked up Carr's $8 million option."
*****************************************************
Excellect story in general, but I would take exception with this critical segment of the authors account of how it all went down.
Kubiak may have said he could win with Carr because he realized that's what McNair wanted to hear rather than a frank opinion, but I tend to agree with the version that says McNair had a predisposition about what call to make on Carr's option and didn't make it on the basis of Kubiaks opinion.
 
Double Barrel said:
I wish Carr all the best with Carolina. :)

Interesting note about McNair asking candidates how they would use Bush. Is that substantiated or just speculation? To ask such a question but fail to seal the deal on RB just seems strange to me.

p.s.



Another strange quote. He was here. He knew about the holdout and how McNair felt about it. It wasn't that long ago. It seems peculiar to bring up the topic in an article devoted to Carr and his mechanics and new team.
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No he wasn't. He's admitted that he never worked out in the off season unless he had to in mini or training camps.
 
Vinny said:
good dude...lousy QB. I hope he gets it together. He has all the body you want in a NFL QB.
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I agree.

Great article.

One thing that some people said before his release and I'm starting to see a little of now in his quotes is a little immaturity. You can tell he enjoys throwing out the zingers, etc and I think he still skirts some of his own responsibility. Overall though I hope we are all in better shape.
 
petedy said:
.Also the article refers to how Kubiak mislead McNair about his feelings of Carr and how he would use Reggie Bush.
Click to expand...

I've let my feelings about this situation be known for a while:


xtruroyaltyx said:
I don't think Kubiak ever believed Carr to be a good QB, capable of taking this team to the next level....

I think the reason that Kubiak left Carr in even when it was evident that we played better with Sage, was because he wanted to showcase what Carr could do and he did nothing...

I think the main person that needed to be convinced David was not the QB for us was Mr. Mcnair...By leaving David in and putting pressure on him it showed his inability to respond...

No more questions about it; he isn't that good...time to move on...
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They exploded on him, berating him in front of teammates. Carr, true to his style, rarely reciprocated with any emotion. But what was once seen as a cool demeanor was now perceived as indifference, which made the coaches angrier. It got so bad that other players in the huddle could hear coaches yelling at Carr through his helmet earpiece. "He never blamed anyone, he never pointed the finger," says Texans left tackle Eric Winston. "But it would be impossible for it not to wear on him."
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It's noteworthy that (according to this guy's source), Carr maintained his demeanor, and yet the perception of that demeanor changed.

And the quote from Winston is really why I cut Carr some slack. The game of football is so team-oriented and intertwined that no one player can affect the game to the degree that Carr would have had to. The team around him was a combination of bad and injured, and Carr took it all with style.

Yeah, he has his lumps, and he certainly doesn't have his mind right. But I always think back to that first season and remember the throws he would make and try, and those things were just beaten out of him over the years. The Texans are more responsible for where DC is right now (mentally) than he is, IMO. That doesn't change where he is, however.
 
HoustonFrog said:
One thing that some people said before his release and I'm starting to see a little of now in his quotes is a little immaturity. You can tell he enjoys throwing out the zingers,
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Pretty mild zingers, if you ask me. He has a lot of legitimate complaints with the team, just as the team had with him. I think he is remarkably restrained, but I guess for those that hate all things Carr, that would be indifference again. Immaturity if he says anything, indifference if he doesn't.

My opinion is the early sacks hurt Carr, and his reactions to them hurt himself even more. He couldn't mentally overcome the past as the team improved.

There were many things I thought he could done, especially while the Capers crew was still here and Carr was still the golden boy, even with the fans. I thought this is where his lack of "leadership" showed itself. When the plays started getting repetitive and simple at the end of 2004, he should have changed them in the huddle. Lots of players would have supported that. When Pendry gave Riley the left tackle job in 2005, Carr should have demanded a change. Everyone could see Riley wasn't up to it on the field, although Pendry liked wielding the power. The players aren't blind; when Riley was on pace to give up 28 sacks or whatever after the first 2-3 games and still starting, they probably realized Palmer wasn't the problem coach. That season went into the tank, early and deep.

There are a lot of players on the Texans who think "why Mario". They just won't throw a teammate under the bus. Dunta may have said a few things about Carr, but generally the team has been more restrained.
 
According to one former staffer, Kubiak and offensive coordinator Mike Sherman estimated that Carr's panicked progressions cost Johnson at least 500 receiving yards.
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Holy crap.
 
Fiddy said:
According to one former staffer, Kubiak and offensive coordinator Mike Sherman estimated that Carr's panicked progressions cost Johnson at least 500 receiving yards.
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Holy crap.
Click to expand...

So I guess we can count on an extra 500 yards from Andre this year, just as a baseline. Other improvements in the offense should net even more. I can't wait!
 
Runner said:
Pretty mild zingers, if you ask me. He has a lot of legitimate complaints with the team, just as the team had with him. I think he is remarkably restrained, but I guess for those that hate all things Carr, that would be indifference again. Immaturity if he says anything, indifference if he doesn't.
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I don't hate all things Carr and wish him the best. I just think that since he has left he has taken very veiled shots at the O-line, and other areas of the team. As you said, I think they could do the same if they wanted. To me, both sides should just say it didn't work and move on. Its pretty basic but of course people are going to start with the old "Hater" "lover" thing again. Its an observation.
 
Runner said:
When Pendry gave Riley the left tackle job in 2005, Carr should have demanded a change.
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After the fiasco in Reliant with the Browns which was the 2004 finale and McNair guaranteed on Channel 13s Bob Allen show that he would see that Carr was protected, the owner should have been the first one to instruct
Casserly/Capers that Pendrys idea of Riley as salvation for LT was BS.
McNair is so much a part of how Carr's career here was bungled.
 
nunusguy said:
After the fiasco in Reliant with the Browns which was the 2004 finale and McNair guaranteed on Channel 13s Bob Allen show that he would see that Carr was protected, the owner should have been the first one to instruct
Casserly/Capers that Pendrys idea of Riley as salvation for LT was BS.
McNair is so much a part of how Carr's career here was bungled.
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True. I'm still amazed at how that coaching staff had all of the players cowed. Everyone seemed to watch out for themselves, with little sense of team.
 
Runner said:
I was too lazy to hit the sarcasm thingy.

Or else I finally believe we have gotten our desideratum - a high octane offense.
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Well, after reading previous posts from you questioning Oline personel moves and talent level, I'm willing to bet it was sarcasm.

I'm still on the fence on the Oline. I do think we'll be better as a whole offensively.:shades:
 
rickyb said:
Can anyone doubt what game one Mr. Mario Wms has circled on this year's schedule?
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And will it make any difference?

All sarcasm aside, I do have high hopes for the defense. They will be solid this year. I just don't think their success will be based on Mario as much as DeMeco and others.
 
Runner said:
True. I'm still amazed at how that coaching staff had all of the players cowed. Everyone seemed to watch out for themselves, with little sense of team.
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And the crazy thing is how such horrible, horrible (yes, that's double-horrible) coaches could ever land another job, must less in the NFL.

If they can ruin an amazing talent like Carr, what could owners possible be thinking in letting these imbeciles near their own multi-million dollar investments?

None other than Jerry Jones, he of three Super Bowl trophies and one fine looking future stadium, is letting Chris Palmer near his franchise QB Tony Romo!! Somebody get on the horn quick and tell Mr. Jones that he needs to be very careful lest this unqualified hack ruin another fine talent.
 
Double Barrel said:
And the crazy thing is how such horrible, horrible (yes, that's double-horrible) coaches could ever land another job, must less in the NFL.

If they can ruin an amazing talent like Carr, what could owners possible be thinking in letting these imbeciles near their own multi-million dollar investments?

None other than Jerry Jones, he of three Super Bowl trophies and one fine looking future stadium, is letting Chris Palmer near his franchise QB Tony Romo!! Somebody get on the horn quick and tell Mr. Jones that he needs to be very careful lest this unqualified hack ruin another fine talent.
Click to expand...

Well, Palmer was the one they fired to keep Pendry. He must have something going for him.

Capers has a job in the NFL, Palmer, is that it? I think it is.
 
Runner said:
True. I'm still amazed at how that coaching staff had all of the players cowed. Everyone seemed to watch out for themselves, with little sense of team.
Click to expand...

How many of those players were just drawing a paycheck . They had it good ... why rock the boat .
 
Runner said:
Well, Palmer was the one they fired to keep Pendry. He must have something going for him.
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Palmer was here for the first three years, though. And he's the one that really tried to "fix" Carr's mechanics (I recall the ladder drill).

Pendry did not have a chance to help Carr because Palmer was such a double-horrible coach and the o-line has been the.worst.evar, even since before the history of the NFL.

[Insert random disclaimer here]
 
Pendry did not have a chance to help Carr because Palmer was such a double-horrible coach and the o-line has been the.worst.evar, even since before the history of the NFL.
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I can't tell if this is a :sarcasm: war or not .

I think Palmer's rep at that time was good . I think he had Carr starting out trying to throw over ladders . When Carr got excited he reverted back to his old ways of arm dropping low ... hey maybe that's why he fumbles so much ... doooh .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
indifference , the lack of emotion, motivation, or enthusiasm; a psychological term for a state of indifference .

I guess it was time for a break .
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one of the biggest problems I have had with Carr was always his front running and his indifference. he was all 'rah rah' when we scored or had a lead but he would never show the fire or desire to turn things around when they were bad. maybe it just wasn't possible for him to do.
 
Double Barrel said:
And the crazy thing is how such horrible, horrible (yes, that's double-horrible) coaches could ever land another job, must less in the NFL.
If they can ruin an amazing talent like Carr, what could owners possible be thinking in letting these imbeciles near their own multi-million dollar investments?

None other than Jerry Jones, he of three Super Bowl trophies and one fine looking future stadium, is letting Chris Palmer near his franchise QB Tony Romo!! Somebody get on the horn quick and tell Mr. Jones that he needs to be very careful lest this unqualified hack ruin another fine talent.
Click to expand...

yeah it is crazy how these horrible career ruining coaches have landed other jobs and had much success to boot....

at the end of the day, the reason Carr hasn't had success in the NFL is because its not important enough to him. if it was important to him, he would have put in the extra work both at the training facility and on his own. if it was important to him he would have prepared like NFL QBs are supposed to. He has priorities in his life and football isnt one of them. never has been.

I think its funny how the author said that the Carolina OC pledging not to mess with his delivery was a key reason Carr decided on Carolina. This shows just how immature a player he is. The guy just isn't a professional. If something is holding you back from having success, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. He just stays the course and I guess he has upwards of 50million reasons in the bank for him to stay the course.

I feel sorry for any Panthers fan who thinks he is a positive pieceto their team. I would rather have a Chris Weinke anyday. And thats sayin a lot.
 
Double Barrel said:
And the crazy thing is how such horrible, horrible (yes, that's double-horrible) coaches could ever land another job, must less in the NFL.

If they can ruin an amazing talent like Carr, what could owners possible be thinking in letting these imbeciles near their own multi-million dollar investments?

None other than Jerry Jones, he of three Super Bowl trophies and one fine looking future stadium, is letting Chris Palmer near his franchise QB Tony Romo!! Somebody get on the horn quick and tell Mr. Jones that he needs to be very careful lest this unqualified hack ruin another fine talent.
Click to expand...

Palmer is the same coach that led Mark Brunell and Drew Bledsoe to some of their best years. I'm not sure either QB has had much success after Palmer..sometimes it's just the player regardless how hard we want to demonize the coaches for their failures. I mean, this is the same player that Sherman said blew around 500 yards of production throwing the ball to Andre Johnson last season alone. This wasn't Sherman's fault was it?
 
Here's a good article about our former QB and how the Texans handled him.

A few interesting snippets....


While Carr was publicly applauded for leading the NFL in completion percentage, his coaches privately dismissed it. According to one former staffer, Kubiak and offensive coordinator Mike Sherman estimated that Carr's panicked progressions cost Johnson at least 500 receiving yards. They exploded on him, berating him in front of teammates. Carr, true to his style, rarely reciprocated with any emotion. But what was once seen as a cool demeanor was now perceived as indifference, which made the coaches angrier. It got so bad that other players in the huddle could hear coaches yelling at Carr through his helmet earpiece. "He never blamed anyone, he never pointed the finger," says Texans left tackle Eric Winston. "But it would be impossible for it not to wear on him."


Carr was benched during a midseason loss to the Titans, and even though he returned to start every remaining game, he knew his Houston career was over. Everyone did. "Kubiak wanted to see if Carr stepped up," an ex-Texans staffer says. "He didn't."


But everyone knows what happened next: Houston opted for defensive end Mario Williams. "People are always going to ask why," Carr says, "and I'm one of those people." Still, with Kubiak there was reason to be optimistic. The new coach taught Carr to slow down, to breathe as he read his progressions, to trust. Then a starting lineman went down in September -- meaning Carr would have to set up behind a patched pocket for the fifth year in a row -- and the QB reverted to his old ways. He knew it but was too beaten down to do anything about it. He had happy feet, rushed his passes, wondered as he threw whether his release was high enough. Carr was, he says, "just trying to survive."


Not surprisingly, reconfiguring his mechanics didn't do much to help ease the pressure -- Carr was the league's most-sacked passer during three of his first four years -- or help his psyche. "It was a travesty, what happened to him," says Niners backup Trent Dilfer, who's known Carr for 15 years. "It's what happens when you have coaches who don't understand the quarterback position."


The fact that Carr had to be released was humiliating, not only for him but also for the Texans. The team had to take a $6 million cap hit and part with two draft picks for his replacement, Matt Schaub, who got a six-year, $48 million contract despite just two career starts. That no one, not a single team, would trade for Carr was a rather loud rebuke, one that confirmed what most scouts whispered only off the record: He was too damaged to recover from the unprecedented beating he suffered in Houston, which included 76 sacks in 2002 -- Carr's lone NFL record.
 
BattleRedToro said:
No, but for a man that is supposed to be a great O-line coach his O-line sucked last year.
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looks like he got rid of his incredible self-sacking QB....seems to me that he considered Carr quite the problem since he made a heck of a comment about leaving 500 yards on the table plus they didn't draft a lineman on the first day....and nobody offered up even a 7th rounder for David Carr.
 
Vinny said:
plus they didn't draft a lineman on the first day....
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That line is part of the obituary for the Capers staff. The Texans sure hope it isn't part of Kubiak's in a couple of years.

I still wonder what they would have done if Levi Brown had been there when they picked.
 
Runner said:
That line is part of the obituary for the Capers staff. The Texans sure hope it isn't part of Kubiak's in a couple of years.

I still wonder what they would have done if Levi Brown had been there when they picked.
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I donno, but if you think Spencer can play the position once he is fully healed, you don't go out and take another LT and pay him top ten money. We are still a year or so away from the playoffs (may make a run this year if it all breaks right) and next season is going to be a deep draft for lineman...so I think they did the right thing for the long haul.
 
Vinny said:
We are still a year or so away from the playoffs (may make a run this year if it all breaks right) and next season is going to be a deep draft for lineman...so I think they did the right thing for the long haul.
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If the defense is as good as I think it might be, next year might be used on a lot of offense.

I just hope they don't need "just one more" defensive lineman next year to help them all get pressure. :cool:
 
Vinny said:
I donno, but if you think Spencer can play the position once he is fully healed, you don't go out and take another LT and pay him top ten money. We are still a year or so away from the playoffs (may make a run this year if it all breaks right) and next season is going to be a deep draft for lineman...so I think they did the right thing for the long haul.
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they could have used a 4th round in the Supplemental and gotten Gaither. They could have probably bid a 5th round and got him because the Ravens did with a 5th round. It's obvious they dont think the OL is the problem or are in deep denial.
 
BattleRedToro said:
I'd say they are in deep denial.
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i will give them the benefit of the doubt as a fan, but this is Year 2 of the Kubiak Experiment. They better be right about the OL, their QB prospect, Mario, and Amobi. So far Kubes gets a C- grade and Rick Smith has a B+ grade. I say we give Kubes 3 years total to prove his worth then maybe make a big run at a Cowher or Jimmah.

If the OL and offense don't show marked improvement this year and we fail to become a playoff contender during Kubiak's 3rd year, it will be time to consider some new head coaching candidates. I hope that isn't the case as I would like to see Kubiak here for the next decade (which would mean we would be making positive steps and putting a competitive product on the field)
 
A Good article that shows that both:

Carr Screwed the Texans (Lack of leadership)

Texans Screwed Carr (No Reggie, no O-line help, no offensive help besides AJ)

It will be interesting to see what Carr can do with a great line, Jarrett, Smith, Foster, and DeAngelo Williams
 
The1ApplePie said:
A Good article that shows that both:

Carr Screwed the Texans (Lack of leadership)

Texans Screwed Carr (No Reggie, no O-line help, no offensive help besides AJ)

It will be interesting to see what Carr can do with a great line, Jarrett, Smith, Foster, and DeAngelo Williams
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great line? not so fast there buddy :)

the Panthers line has more proven talent than the Texans but its not an elite OL. its an average to good OL. They do have some talent at RB and WR though.
 
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