For the first time on 10 years . . .

[Perki-Perk]

I've been feeling this for a couple weeks now. Just feels like somethings different this year. I'm extremely excited about football this year, Texans football. Besides the usual Texans vs Cowboys preseason matchup, I have never really paid attention in the preseason. This year, I've watched every minute of every game. I can't for certain say whether or not the lockout had anything to do with it, but I do know, the excitement is becoming uncontainable. After watching this team the past 9 seasons, this is the first year I don't feel like a "homer" when I feel like we have a very legitimate shot at making some noise if not going all the way. C'mon, Cinderella, where that damn glass slipper!

 

[Rey]

I can't wait to play Pittsburg.

I know they believe we are a bunch of softies but when that defense starts humming on their ass they will wake the hell up.

Baltimore won't take us lightly, neither will Indy.

Gonna be a fun season and I can't wait til the update on madden.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I absolutely agree with you, but 5 years is a long damn time in the NFL. I also stated that I was OK with keeping Kubiak. Here's to hoping we're Super Bowl champions and talking about repeating this time next year and how great a job Kubiak did in 2011.

I wasn't talking about Kubiak. I was talking about his defensive coordinators. His "strategy" was to give a new guy a chance. That didn't work out but he gave the guy (Smith) a chance to clearly fail before making the change. But Kubiak decided to use the same strategy only this time, with the guy he'd originally wanted. So he did. And that guy failed.

Kubes should have been let go on that second DC failure but he got to keep his job. I'm cool with that. AND, it appears he learned from his lesson (or McNair and/or Smith learned the lesson.)

 

[houstonspartan]

I wasn't talking about Kubiak. I was talking about his defensive coordinators. His "strategy" was to give a new guy a chance. That didn't work out but he gave the guy (Smith) a chance to clearly fail before making the change. But Kubiak decided to use the same strategy only this time, with the guy he'd originally wanted. So he did. And that guy failed.

Kubes should have been let go on that second DC failure but he got to keep his job. I'm cool with that. AND, it appears he learned from his lesson (or McNair and/or Smith learned the lesson.)

Kubiak didn't learn his lesson. Dude is stubborn to the point of being arrogant. One of the most thick-headed coaches I have ever seen. Wade was clearly a McNair hire.

 

[Perki-Perk]

Kubiak didn't learn his lesson. Dude is stubborn to the point of being arrogant. One of the most thick-headed coaches I have ever seen. Wade was clearly a McNair hire.

I don't think it's thick headedness as much as it is loyalty and faithfulness to friends and people that have been around him.

That may not be a great quality as a head coach, but I bet Kubes is a hell of a friend.

 

[thunderkyss]

Kubiak didn't learn his lesson. Dude is stubborn to the point of being arrogant. One of the most thick-headed coaches I have ever seen. Wade was clearly a McNair hire.

I think we should put this in perspective.

2009, was the best year for our defense since Kubiak got here, maybe since the inception of the team..... I'll have to check on that. While 2010 was a failure, we should probably look a little deeper before calling Kubiak stubborn & arrogant.

i.e. Frank Bush appeared to be the answer in 2009. My question is why in the heck did he leave Richard Smith in place for 2008?

Then when you look at something objective, like Football Outsiders' prediction that we would have a bad year due to injuries on the defensive side of the ball.... & you consider we had a plethora of injuries on the defensive side of the ball, you've got to figure that the failure was not Frank Bush's ability to coach, but his ability to deal with injuries (which I admit is part of coaching.

There was a definite (imo) difference in the way we played in 2009 & the way we played in 2010. 2009, we were making things happen, playing downhill, dictating to the offense what we would allow them to do. 2010, we were waiting to see what the offense was trying to do & trying to mitigate the worst possible outcome.

I think they were over-compensating for the injuries & inexperience of the secondary.

Bottom line, is Frank Bush a good defensive coordinator? I think the data shows us he is 50/50..... when his players were healthy, he put together a good defense, when his players weren't..... he didn't.

I wouldn't have been happy giving Frank Bush another shot at it in 2011. I like the Wade Phillips idea much better.

But to think Gary was arrogant? & stubborn..... no, I'm not seeing that. Not because of Frank Bush.....

 

[thunderkyss]

Okay, I went back & looked at the defensive stats from our previous years. 2009 was our highest ranking in terms of yardage, ranking 13th. However we ranked 17th in points (20.8 ppg). Our highest ranking in points allowed was 2004, when we ranked 15th allowing 21.2 ppg. Just a quick look at that tells me either defenses generally got better between 2009 & 2005 (less points, but ranked lower) or offenses had gotten worse.

Another interesting discovery, in terms of points, 2010 was not our worse year. We allowed 26.7 ppg. In 2005, we allowed 26.9 ppg.

Just in case you want to see all the numbers

Year........rank yards.....ppg...... rank ppg
2010......30.................26.7......
2009......13.................20.8......17th
2008......22.................24.6......27th
2007......24.................24.........22th
2006......24.................22.9......25th
2005......31.................26.9......32nd
2004......23.................21.2......27th
2003......31.................23.8......27th
2002......16.................22.2......20th

 

[DocBar]

I wasn't talking about Kubiak. I was talking about his defensive coordinators. His "strategy" was to give a new guy a chance. That didn't work out but he gave the guy (Smith) a chance to clearly fail before making the change. But Kubiak decided to use the same strategy only this time, with the guy he'd originally wanted. So he did. And that guy failed.

Kubes should have been let go on that second DC failure but he got to keep his job. I'm cool with that. AND, it appears he learned from his lesson (or McNair and/or Smith learned the lesson.)

Ahha. That makes sense. What also makes sense is realizing you're struggling as a 1st time hc and getting an accomplished playcaller on the other side of the ball. But that's water under the bridge now.

 

[El Tejano]

If you ask me, I think the difference is that for the 1st time in 10 years, the defensive players have bought into the system because more than 1 or 2 guys are going to make plays on this defense.

 

[Perki-Perk]

I can honesly say, I think Kubes has done better with game management as far as what I've seen in the preseason. Sure there are some situations when you may think, "hey, should have run on that play.", or vice versa. But I think part of managing a top offense is to not be predictable. As long as we aren't playing from behind almost every game this year, I think we will see a lot more "sensible" play calling as far as us arm chair HC's are concerned. With the seemingly vastly improved defense, I think people are crazy to think 9-7 is the best we can do. I'm listening to 790 right now, and to be frank, I think this guy is pissing me off.

 

[steelbtexan]

Kubiak has, IMO, better HC skills than Wade.

I think Kubiak has a public persona and a private one. Very Tom Landry'ish.

I still don't think he's a complete HC, though. Otherwise, he would have had a functional defense from day one. To me, a HC has to cover all the bases...not just the one that he has been really good at doing.

Wade Phillips and Dom Capers both had a team (Bills and Panthers, respectively) that probably played a bit over their own heads...and Capers and Phillips look like 34 geniuses in my book.

Remember when Capers was here? Our defense looked functional, it was the best part of the team actually. Sure, vets got old and some got released, but still...our defense was not as bad as anything we saw the past five years under Richard Smith and Frank Bush. That's because Capers still had his fingerprints on the defense, though he was a HC of the team.

Flash forward to the past five years, the offense gets better and the defense regresses exponentially each year. Not a coincidence. One HC, Capers, was a defense-minded guy and had the chance to lend a hand in the creation and implementation of his defense...until Fangio found a way to muddy the waters with his complex ways (according to some research by Texans Chick, IIRC). The other HC, Kubiak, improves the offense and the defense slides...because Kubiak, the archetype to Capers did what he (Kubiak) does best: Make an offense better than it was.

All this is to say that out of the three men in this conversation--Kubiak, Capers, and Phillips--it sure appears that Kubiak by a very small fraction is a better HC than Capers and Phillips. Granted, Phillips and Capers took their respective teams into playoffs and Kubiak didn't, but I think Kubiak has shown more HC resolve and savvy nature in how he handles things that happen. Just my 0.02.

Capers is making hay as a 34 d-coord. He could cement his legacy if he stays there and wins another SB or two somehow. Though that's hard to do.

Wade could do the same thing here.

And I totally agree that coordinators should have a presence in Coach of The Year awards. Does the NFL or media associations have categories for OC and DC of the Year awards? They should, IMO.

How many playoff games has Gary coached in as a HC?

How many has Capers/Phillips coached in?

Give me Capers/Phillips and it's not even close. With that said I'm more excited about this season than I've have been in a while. The team looks like they are going to shut up about how good they are and prove it on the field.

Funny how Garys job being on the line will make the team grow up.

Last time I felt this way was the 2009 preseason.

 

[steelbtexan]

With a top 15 defense and an easy schedule in 2009 the team went 9-7. This was with Schaub having a record setting yr. So I can see how fans think the Texans will go 9-7. I hope they are wrong.

The real question is can you envision Gary ever holding a Lombardi trophy over his head? If the answer is no then Gary isn't the man for the job. I cant see Gary lifting that trophy.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Just in case you want to see all the numbers

Year........rank yards.....ppg...... rank ppg
2010......30.................26.7......
2009......13.................20.8......17th
2008......22.................24.6......27th
2007......24.................24.........22th
2006......24.................22.9......25th
2005......31.................26.9......32nd
2004......23.................21.2......27th
2003......31.................23.8......27th
2002......16.................22.2......20th

To put this in perspective with my point about "clearly failing":

2006 -- That defense started out EPICALLY BAD. The O actually looked OK but we had 3 games to start the season where we were just demolished. But then the defense stiffened and we played better. So, was this just a case of the defense needing to gel?

2007 -- This defense was up and down, iirc. But by the end of the season, there were some bright spots. It looked like Bennett was going to take over the #2 and Adibi looked like he was going to upgrade Morlon Greenwood.

2008 -- This defense started out EPICALLY BAD and we had that whole hurricane thing. We lost our first 4 games. But then Bush and Kubiak started taking some of the play calling duties away from Smith. Our defense tightened up a bit and we ended up the season pretty strong.

2009 -- Bush takes over and our defense is OK. Wasn't great. Could have been better. We finish 9-7, give him another year and it should be great.

2010 -- Bush makes the decision to go kiddie corners and the whole shebang falls apart. We go from OK to EPIC FAIL.

So, to me, it looks like Kubiak gave his DCs a chance to succeed and only got rid of them after they'd proved to be failures.

 

[drunkcookie]

Hmmm, I've never really thought about the Wade hire in terms of whether McNair or Kubiak or both had part in the hiring, but I think it's ignorant to completely dismiss Kubiak as playing a big part in that hire...

First off, wasn't Kubiak the ball-boy for the Oilers when Wade was there helping Papa Phillips?

I know Bum likes Kubiak, and Bum is Wade's dad..

Wasn't Wade at Denver while Kubiak was backin' up my all-time favorite QB? I believe Wade was in Denver from '89-'94/'95 in at least some capacity (I know as HC replacing Reeves at the end)... Kubiak was in Denver for at least three of Wade's years there ('89-'91)...

Point being, Kubiak and little Bum have rubbed shoulders too many times to completely dismiss Kubiak in having anything to do with the Wade hire...

Honestly I could give a dead rat's ass who/how, maybe McNair and Jerry had a bet going: whoever loses in Dallas v. Houston 2010 gets Wade Phillips as punishmenta, all that matters to me is that it works...

 

[Doppelganger]

Ive been trying to figure out if its the players or the coaching / scheme .... Many of the same guy's on the field as last year but the results are dramatically different.

Was last years defensive staff .... That bad?!

Well, here is the thing. This is what the starting Defense looked like at the end of last year:

DE: Mario, Smith
DT: Okoye, Cody/Mitchell
LB: Cushing, Bentley, Diles
S: Pollard, Wilson
CB: Quinn, Jackson

Included in this group were injuries to Meco and Barwin, who certainly would have played if healthy.

Compare that to the new starting lineup.

DE: Watt, Smith
NT: Mitchell
OLB: Mario, Barwin
ILB: Cush, Meco
CB:Joseph, Jackson
S:Manning, Quinn

3 of the 11 starters did not play for the Texans at all. Barwin played about a quarter and Meco missed much of the season. So, could argue they have 5 of 11 new players on D.

I would also say this group of D coaches is putting players in a position to excel. While it is only preseason, you can see Smith, Cush, and even Jackson playing better than they did last year. Mario was very disruptive in SF, so he may be adapting to his new role.

So, to answer your question, the Texans essentially have 5 starters on D they didn't really have last year and Wade and Co understand how to play D.

players were not on the Defense last year

 

[thunderkyss]

So, to me, it looks like Kubiak gave his DCs a chance to succeed and only got rid of them after they'd proved to be failures.

You're right. I think I like your way better. Let's fire them before they have a chance to fail.

Get that Wade Phillips guy out of here, he might fail in 2011.


♪

 

[DocBar]

To put this in perspective with my point about "clearly failing":

2006 -- That defense started out EPICALLY BAD. The O actually looked OK but we had 3 games to start the season where we were just demolished. But then the defense stiffened and we played better. So, was this just a case of the defense needing to gel?

2007 -- This defense was up and down, iirc. But by the end of the season, there were some bright spots. It looked like Bennett was going to take over the #2 and Adibi looked like he was going to upgrade Morlon Greenwood.

2008 -- This defense started out EPICALLY BAD and we had that whole hurricane thing. We lost our first 4 games. But then Bush and Kubiak started taking some of the play calling duties away from Smith. Our defense tightened up a bit and we ended up the season pretty strong.

2009 -- Bush takes over and our defense is OK. Wasn't great. Could have been better. We finish 9-7, give him another year and it should be great.

2010 -- Bush makes the decision to go kiddie corners and the whole shebang falls apart. We go from OK to EPIC FAIL.

So, to me, it looks like Kubiak gave his DCs a chance to succeed and only got rid of them after they'd proved to be failures.

Are you getting '6 and '09 confused? '09 is when we allowed eleventythreehundred yds rushing in our 1st three games and drastically improved as the season went along. It's also the season we lost 3 or 4 games in heartbreakers. Much like we lost last season.
I agree with you about Bush as DC. We had 3 horrible games to start the season, but finished great. Smith never showed much of anything as DC and quite possibly led us to drafting 6 not very good defensive players. Smith was a catastrophe as DC.

 

[thunderkyss]

Are you getting '6 and '09 confused? '09 is when we allowed eleventythreehundred yds rushing in our 1st three games and drastically improved as the season went along.

Kubiak's first three games were Eagles, Colts, & Washington. We were on pace to have the worst defense in the history of the game. We gave up 400 yards to all three teams, we even allowed Brunnel to set a record for consecutive completions..... Brunnel was way down on the downside of his career mind you.

The bleeding eventually stopped. We didn't shut anyone down or anything, we just got to normal bad instead of historically bad. Unlike 2010.

 

[DocBar]

Kubiak's first three games were Eagles, Colts, & Washington. We were on pace to have the worst defense in the history of the game. We gave up 400 yards to all three teams, we even allowed Brunnel to set a record for consecutive completions..... Brunnel was way down on the downside of his career mind you.

The bleeding eventually stopped. We didn't shut anyone down or anything, we just got to normal bad instead of historically bad. Unlike 2010.

Except for the bolded, it sounds a lot like '09. I remember the Redskins game vividly. 26 or so consecutive completions. Maybe I got historically bad defense and historically bad run defense confused.:vincepalm:

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Are you getting '6 and '09 confused? '09 is when we allowed eleventythreehundred yds rushing in our 1st three games and drastically improved as the season went along. It's also the season we lost 3 or 4 games in heartbreakers. Much like we lost last season.
I agree with you about Bush as DC. We had 3 horrible games to start the season, but finished great. Smith never showed much of anything as DC and quite possibly led us to drafting 6 not very good defensive players. Smith was a catastrophe as DC.

No. Those two years were remarkably similar with how bad the defense started the season. But in 2006, there was always the argument that we were changing from a 3-4 to a 4-3 and it was a totally new defense. Didn't have that excuse on '09.

 

[NETxTexanFan]

I was exactly thinking about that. I think Yes that bad. And you compare with bad to great DC like Wade, there is a huge difference.

Go Texans!!!

What is funny is that Wades defenses play better when he is only the DC as opposed to the HC. Of coarse to hear some talk you would think Wade was a poor HC. The problem with Wade and as I see it with Kubiak is that both tend to be too much players coaches and not enough task masters. Neither is bad as a HC. Not bad but not Super Bowl types.

I am hoping with Wade and Kubiak together they won't be too soft or that will come back to haunt our Texans as the season goes along. That seems to be the MO of teams under coaches like Wade and Kubiak.

As far as the preseason goes, so far so good. However we must not let that get us overly excited since teams have looked good to great in the preseason and fell apart in the regular season.

 

[thunderkyss]

What is funny is that Wades defenses play better when he is only the DC as opposed to the HC. Of coarse to hear some talk you would think Wade was a poor HC. The problem with Wade and as I see it with Kubiak is that both tend to be too much players coaches and not enough task masters. Neither is bad as a HC. Not bad but not Super Bowl types.

I am hoping with Wade and Kubiak together they won't be too soft or that will come back to haunt our Texans as the season goes along. That seems to be the MO of teams under coaches like Wade and Kubiak.

As far as the preseason goes, so far so good. However we must not let that get us overly excited since teams have looked good to great in the preseason and fell apart in the regular season.

And what brings you to TexansTalk? Have you been a closet fan & the drafting of JJ Watt finally push you over the edge? Were you a Bengal's fan? Following JoJo ? Are you related to Wade Phillips & decided to join his support group?


& Welcome aboard.

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