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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

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thunderkyss said:
I just rewatched the first series. Play calling looks good. The Bills pass rush is amped. They zone blitzed just about every time, showing as many as six rushers then dropping into coverage.

Very confusing which 4 were coming & Jerry Hughes was beating Tunsil around the edge.

It wasn't the play calling that stopped that drive.

BO'b may not be calling as many designed runs for Watson, but he's not stopping him from being Watson. Watson is hesitant. I saw him pull the ball down three times before deciding to run on at least three snaps.
Click to expand...
Greg Cosell was interviewed ~ a week ago and was asked about Watson. He said he really liked him, but he has shown a continued "hesitation" in reading and reacting which in the NFL is a fatal flaw if he is not able to correct it.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Greg Cosell was interviewed ~ a week ago and was asked about Watson. He said he really liked him, but he has shown a continued "hesitation" in reading and reacting which in the NFL is a fatal flaw if he is not able to correct it.
Click to expand...


The coach has him thinking too much. This tends to happen when you're telling any player to play a different way.

I can understand the coaches reasoning behind wanting Watson to play a different way. The youngster has a injury history.
 
santo said:
I mean, these things could wait for the film room. OB basically killed Watson's mojo after that. lol!
Click to expand...

At the 3.25 mark, he said he (Watson) is a great QB. He was using a teaching moment, and nothing wrong with that.
 
Honestly, I am perfectly fine with O'Brien as HC and GM if he would just tweak his offensive system to better fit the players and use more misdirection and creativity. But if his ego and stubbornness don't allow him to do that, then I want him gone. I suppose history dictates that he isn't willing to change - he just loves pounding them square pegs I guess.

He needs to understand that the players win the games, not his beloved "system."
 
Texansballer74 said:
The coach has him thinking too much. This tends to happen when you're telling any player to play a different way.

I can understand the coaches reasoning behind wanting Watson to play a different way. The youngster has a injury history.
Click to expand...
That hesitation does not occur because of the coach telling him to play different. It's, at least for now, a matter of hesitancy in the processing/decision-making. You see it in his decisions to run or not to run..........to pass or not to pass...........to throw away the ball or not to throw away the ball. The hesitancy shows up when he allows the receiver's window to close by throwing the ball late..........or throwing the ball just after defenders are about to key onto what would have otherwise been an open receiver.
 
amazing80 said:
This is everything you need to know about OB. He is playing for a FG, the QB makes a good decision and OB says no no no, I called this stupid play because I had a feeling about it...lol ok dude
Click to expand...

Is it possible that OB and DW have an agreement that he can’t change the plays too much until the second half of the game? Sort of like this is my half and then you can make changes? Almost like Kubiaks 20 scripted plays at start of game?

It would explain the slow starts and why DW comes alive at the end of the game.
 
TexansBull said:
Is it possible that OB and DW have an agreement that he can’t change the plays too much until the second half of the game? Sort of like this is my half and then you can make changes? Almost like Kubiaks 20 scripted plays at start of game?

It would explain the slow starts and why DW comes alive at the end of the game.
Click to expand...
Logic would say no, but honestly nothing at this point would surprise me about OB
 
amazing80 said:
This is everything you need to know about OB. He is playing for a FG, the QB makes a good decision and OB says no no no, I called this stupid play because I had a feeling about it...lol ok dude
Click to expand...
It makes me wonder how much freedom Watson really has to change things up. OB comes off as a guy that he think he knows what's best and doesn't want people to change that. lol
 
TexansBull said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1213511851386056704

Switching gears:

I wish OB would do something similar. Harbaugh has an analytics guy following him during the game.

Wouldn’t hurt for someone to remind OB not to challenge pass interferences because the possibility of getting the call is outlandishly low.
Click to expand...
Prior to the game on Saturday, OB was 0-22 when trailing by 16 points or more. Ouch.
 
ROO said:
Honestly, I am perfectly fine with O'Brien as HC and GM if he would just tweak his offensive system to better fit the players and use more misdirection and creativity. But if his ego and stubbornness don't allow him to do that, then I want him gone. I suppose history dictates that he isn't willing to change - he just loves pounding them square pegs I guess.

He needs to understand that the players win the games, not his beloved "system."
Click to expand...


QFT.
 
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TexansBull said:
Is it possible that OB and DW have an agreement that he can’t change the plays too much until the second half of the game? Sort of like this is my half and then you can make changes? Almost like Kubiaks 20 scripted plays at start of game?

It would explain the slow starts and why DW comes alive at the end of the game.
Click to expand...

I doubt that is the case.

Watson changes quite a few plays , even early in the game from ass to run / run to pass.

Really , when they run that RPO the right read on the DE is to pull it back when he bites on the RB and he doesn't do that very often. They tend to run away from that side instead , between the center and opposite guard..
What this is telling me is that its not a true option at all , it was a designed play for the RB and its just ball fake / run action to hold that DE a split second.

Doing this .… kinda defeats the purpose of the run action to begin with. If that's what they are gonna do , they'd be better off lining up in an ACE formation and dispense with the trickery or check to a passing play.

They are not taking advantage of the whole RPO concept.
 
Corrosion said:
I doubt that is the case.

Watson changes quite a few plays , even early in the game from ass to run / run to pass.

Really , when they run that RPO the right read on the DE is to pull it back when he bites on the RB and he doesn't do that very often. They tend to run away from that side instead , between the center and opposite guard..
What this is telling me is that its not a true option at all , it was a designed play for the RB and its just ball fake / run action to hold that DE a split second.

Doing this .… kinda defeats the purpose of the run action to begin with. If that's what they are gonna do , they'd be better off lining up in an ACE formation and dispense with the trickery or check to a passing play.

They are not taking advantage of the whole RPO concept.
Click to expand...

I am holding out in the belief that OB is trying to be the smartest person in the room and open more plays out of his playbook the deeper we go into the playoffs.

I am not holding my breath though.
 
TexansBull said:
Is it possible that OB and DW have an agreement that he can’t change the plays too much until the second half of the game? Sort of like this is my half and then you can make changes? Almost like Kubiaks 20 scripted plays at start of game?

It would explain the slow starts and why DW comes alive at the end of the game.
Click to expand...

I think he is allowing Deshaun to learn how to play in this league. We're seeing him win more & more from the pocket, which is what we want. The offense coming alive later in the game is more evidence of Watson "figuring it out." He's seen just about everything two or three times by now. Next year shouldn't take him nearly as long.

Tomorrow is guaranteed to no man. & we don't know when Watson's mobility is going to be greatly compromised, like RGIII.

We've already seen a couple of teams keep him in the pocket long enough to dig a whole he can't get out of.

However, steelbtexan is right. It's win or go home. But I don't want to see a Cam Newton/Josh Allen game plan. I want to see a Mahomes plan. Move the pocket, cut down half the field.
 
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thunderkyss said:
I think he is allowing Deshaun to learn how to play in this league. We're seeing him win more & more from the pocket, which is what we want.

Tomorrow is guaranteed to no man. & we don't know when Watson's mobility is going to be greatly compromised, like RGIII.

We've already seen a couple of teams keep him in the pocket long enough to dig a whole he can't get out of.

However, steelbtexan is right. It's win or go home. But I don't want to see a Cam Newton/Josh Allen game plan. I want to see a Mahomes plan. Move the pocket, cut down half the field.

But the offense coming alive later in the game is more evidence of Watson "figuring it out." He's seen just about everything two or three times by now. Next year shouldn't take him nearly as long.
Click to expand...

What a conundrum wrapped in an enigma!

Teach Watson to be more of a pocket passer to keep his health, or let Watson be Watson and potentially RG3 himself. (Which to properly RG3 oneself you need a medical and coaching staff to put you on the field prior to being healthy...)

What is ironic is there was a debate of how a group of posters said Watson needs to learn not to run all the time to a avoid an RG3 scenario. Those people were “haters” and somehow became OB Apologists.

Interesting.
 
TexansBull said:
What is ironic is there was a debate of how a group of posters said Watson needs to learn not to run all the time to a avoid an RG3 scenario. Those people were “haters” and somehow became OB Apologists.
Click to expand...

I think designed runs ought to be kept to a minimum, but do not discourage him from making plays when he needs to.

Pretty much the way BO'b has been using him, except on the RPOs. You're not helping anyone if he's giving ths ball up 75% of the time. So don't even put it in there.

I'd also start with a few edge plays early to get him in rhythm & loosen up the defense.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think he is allowing Deshaun to learn how to play in this league. We're seeing him win more & more from the pocket, which is what we want.

Tomorrow is guaranteed to no man. & we don't know when Watson's mobility is going to be greatly compromised, like RGIII.

We've already seen a couple of teams keep him in the pocket long enough to dig a whole he can't get out of.

However, steelbtexan is right. It's win or go home. But I don't want to see a Cam Newton/Josh Allen game plan. I want to see a Mahomes plan. Move the pocket, cut down half the field.

But the offense coming alive later in the game is more evidence of Watson "figuring it out." He's seen just about everything two or three times by now. Next year shouldn't take him nearly as long.
Click to expand...

Agree... they move Mahomes a bunch - their last game against the Charges they ran this play (triple option?) two times in a row.

https://imgur.com/a/IovXuNO
https://imgur.com/a/D4rxfxJ

Texans have similar looks in the 'ol playbook, and this probably should have been the call in the 4th quarter when we needed 1 yard on 4th down to win the game. Let Watson decide to keep or throw.

https://imgur.com/a/SPtKLJ0
 
thunderkyss said:
I think designed runs ought to be kept to a minimum, but do not discourage him from making plays when he needs to.

Pretty much the way BO'b has been using him, except on the RPOs. You're not helping anyone if he's giving ths ball up 75% of the time. So don't even put it in there.

I'd also start with a few edge plays early to get him in rhythm & loosen up the defense.
Click to expand...

Run Deshaun run

It's the playoffs.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
Agree... they move Mahomes a bunch - their last game against the Charges they ran this play (triple option?) two times in a row.

https://imgur.com/a/IovXuNO
https://imgur.com/a/D4rxfxJ

Texans have similar looks in the 'ol playbook, and this probably should have been the call in the 4th quarter when we needed 1 yard on 4th down to win the game. Let Watson decide to keep or throw.

https://imgur.com/a/SPtKLJ0
Click to expand...

that RB play action roll out is football porn. that needs to be a constant. The halfback pitch that Hyde fumbled needs to be run more. This team does not attack the edges enough with their backs.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think he is allowing Deshaun to learn how to play in this league. We're seeing him win more & more from the pocket, which is what we want.

Tomorrow is guaranteed to no man. & we don't know when Watson's mobility is going to be greatly compromised, like RGIII.

We've already seen a couple of teams keep him in the pocket long enough to dig a whole he can't get out of.

However, steelbtexan is right. It's win or go home. But I don't want to see a Cam Newton/Josh Allen game plan. I want to see a Mahomes plan. Move the pocket, cut down half the field.

But the offense coming alive later in the game is more evidence of Watson "figuring it out." He's seen just about everything two or three times by now. Next year shouldn't take him nearly as long.
Click to expand...

I think its more evidence of OB figuring out that what he's been doing for 2 or 3 quarters hasn't been working and its time to try something else.

Watson's gonna execute the play called to the best of his ability ….

You notice all the plays we're discussing being successful are examples of attacking the edge of the defense from the outset of the play rather than having a stationary target standing in the pocket until crap hits the proverbial fan and then trying to escape.

These types of plays need to be a staple of the offense from the outset of the game - not waiting until the middle of the 3rd quarter to pull them out of your bag of tricks and they don't necessarily have to be designed runs , the only requirement is that they present the threat of an outside run making the defensive front defend the entire width of the field rather than what amounts to a third of the field.
It also dictates how the secondary reacts , you are essentially forcing them into a single high safety instead of a two deep look as the safety on the play side has to honor the run threat.

There's a reason this team has scored so few points on opening possessions and the first quarter in general Vs 4th quarter scoring - its a philosophical shift in play design that puts Watson in positions to do what he does best.
I'm not saying you have to do this "every play" either , just sprinkle it in with the rest of the playbook and make the defense honor it and the defensive front cant just pin their ears back and attack nor can the secondary just drop back in that two deep zone.

Otherwise , you aren't taking advantage of Watson's best attributes nor are you masking his weaknesses and that's the definition of poor coaching.

I really don't understand why we have to sit thru 2-3 quarters of this isn't working every damn week before OB tries something different - something that's proven to work every damn week.

Make the defense defend sideline to sideline as well as vertically ….
 
FuzzyLogic said:
Agree... they move Mahomes a bunch - their last game against the Charges they ran this play (triple option?) two times in a row.

https://imgur.com/a/IovXuNO
https://imgur.com/a/D4rxfxJ

Texans have similar looks in the 'ol playbook, and this probably should have been the call in the 4th quarter when we needed 1 yard on 4th down to win the game. Let Watson decide to keep or throw.

https://imgur.com/a/SPtKLJ0
Click to expand...

The play highlighted here for KC we run at least 3-5 a game...usually to our TE’s.
 
If I get some time I'll check - but 3-5 times a game seems high from memory. If you know of some instances/games I will check them.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Run Deshaun run

It's the playoffs.
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The problem with RUN DESHAUN RUN is...........

1578408811848.png

..............you never know what chocolate in the box of life Deshaun ends up with............1st down, little gain, TD, INT, sack or injury................but with his erratic decision-making up to now, there are more negative than positive chocolates in the box to choose from.
 

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FuzzyLogic said:
If I get some time I'll check - but 3-5 times a game seems high from memory. If you know of some instances/games I will check them.
Click to expand...

We've run that play a ton this year & i want to say the lionshare of Akins' receptions have come off that play..Fells also has quite a few off it as well. It largely depends on how effective it is during the game...but i know Fells has AT LEAST 2 TD's off that play, and we ran it around 3-4 times against KC...which probably explains your clip of them doing it 2 times in a row (biting us).

& in the playoff game Saturday I know we ran it at least twice. 1st time we ran it Fells got a reception, 2nd time we ran it it almost got picked off....mainly b/c DW4 didn't throw it to Fells he tried to slip it in to Carter instead.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The problem with RUN DESHAUN RUN is...........

View attachment 5317

..............you never know what chocolate in the box of life Deshaun ends up with............1st down, little gain, TD, INT, sack or injury................but with his erratic decision-making up to now, there are more negative than positive chocolates in the box to choose from.
Click to expand...

I agree

But you know what you're going to get with DW4 throwing from the pocket and that ain't good enough to win a SB. So BOB should be willing to take the risk.
 
Mr teX said:
We've run that play a ton this year & i want to say the lionshare of Akins' receptions have come off that play..Fells also has quite a few off it as well. It largely depends on how effective it is during the game...but i know Fells has AT LEAST 2 TD's off that play, and we ran it around 3-4 times against KC...which probably explains your clip of them doing it 2 times in a row (biting us).

& in the playoff game Saturday I know we ran it at least twice. 1st time we ran it Fells got a reception, 2nd time we ran it it almost got picked off....mainly b/c DW4 didn't throw it to Fells he tried to slip it in to Carter instead.
Click to expand...

You're right for the most part (I didn't see one in the Bills game to Fells) first occurrences I saw started in the second half with the one you mentioned was almost picked to Carter. Then it was DW's TD run, the 2-point conversion, a first down keeper by DW, and finally the Hyde TD.

This will probably start our OB debate again - since it will either be A) Why doesn't OB call good plays in the 1st half of the game, the reason for our slow starts etc. or B) BoB is smart and adjusted at halftime so the team was more successful.

It's still close to the holidays, and they won - so I'll go with good job OB for making adjustments.

Q3
1-10-HST 25 (15:00) (Shotgun) D.Watson pass incomplete short right to D.Carter (S.Neal).
1-10-BUF 20 (1:41) (Shotgun) D.Watson right end for 20 yards, TOUCHDOWN

and on the two-point conversion - TWO-POINT CONVERSION ATTEMPT. D.Watson rushes right end. ATTEMPT SUCCEEDS.

Q4
1-10-HST 26 (9:29) (Shotgun) D.Watson left end ran ob at HST 31 for 5 yards (M.Milano).
2-5-BUF 5 (4:42) D.Watson pass short right to C.Hyde for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
 
LMAO. Man we as a team and as fans are so lucky to have OBrien. I mean who else could have overcome such bad QB play to pull the game out with his awesome play calling on Saturday? Gosh can you imagine if we still had Fitzmagic, Hoyer, Mallet, Savage, Schaub, TJ Yates or Brock Osweiler as QB .. we would be the best team in the NFL!!! We should trade Watson ASAP!!
 
FuzzyLogic said:
You're right for the most part (I didn't see one in the Bills game to Fells) first occurrences I saw started in the second half with the one you mentioned was almost picked to Carter. Then it was DW's TD run, the 2-point conversion, a first down keeper by DW, and finally the Hyde TD.

This will probably start our OB debate again - since it will either be A) Why doesn't OB call good plays in the 1st half of the game, the reason for our slow starts etc. or B) BoB is smart and adjusted at halftime so the team was more successful.

It's still close to the holidays, and they won - so I'll go with good job OB for making adjustments.

Q3
1-10-HST 25 (15:00) (Shotgun) D.Watson pass incomplete short right to D.Carter (S.Neal).
1-10-BUF 20 (1:41) (Shotgun) D.Watson right end for 20 yards, TOUCHDOWN

and on the two-point conversion - TWO-POINT CONVERSION ATTEMPT. D.Watson rushes right end. ATTEMPT SUCCEEDS.

Q4
1-10-HST 26 (9:29) (Shotgun) D.Watson left end ran ob at HST 31 for 5 yards (M.Milano).
2-5-BUF 5 (4:42) D.Watson pass short right to C.Hyde for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
Click to expand...

The play you highlighted for KC, we actually ran that play 7 times against them with huge success..Fells and Akins ate their asses up with it. We also rolled the pocket another 3-4 times. Just sit and count them in the clip below.

 
Corrosion said:
I think its more evidence of OB figuring out that what he's been doing for 2 or 3 quarters hasn't been working and its time to try something else.

Watson's gonna execute the play called to the best of his ability ….

You notice all the plays we're discussing being successful are examples of attacking the edge of the defense from the outset of the play rather than having a stationary target standing in the pocket until crap hits the proverbial fan and then trying to escape.

These types of plays need to be a staple of the offense from the outset of the game - not waiting until the middle of the 3rd quarter to pull them out of your bag of tricks and they don't necessarily have to be designed runs , the only requirement is that they present the threat of an outside run making the defensive front defend the entire width of the field rather than what amounts to a third of the field.
It also dictates how the secondary reacts , you are essentially forcing them into a single high safety instead of a two deep look as the safety on the play side has to honor the run threat.

There's a reason this team has scored so few points on opening possessions and the first quarter in general Vs 4th quarter scoring - its a philosophical shift in play design that puts Watson in positions to do what he does best.
I'm not saying you have to do this "every play" either , just sprinkle it in with the rest of the playbook and make the defense honor it and the defensive front cant just pin their ears back and attack nor can the secondary just drop back in that two deep zone.

Otherwise , you aren't taking advantage of Watson's best attributes nor are you masking his weaknesses and that's the definition of poor coaching.

I really don't understand why we have to sit thru 2-3 quarters of this isn't working every damn week before OB tries something different - something that's proven to work every damn week.

Make the defense defend sideline to sideline as well as vertically ….
Click to expand...
100% agree, could you please send a memo to BOB? Thank you.
 
TexansBull said:
Switching gears:

I wish OB would do something similar. Harbaugh has an analytics guy following him during the game.

Wouldn’t hurt for someone to remind OB not to challenge pass interferences because the possibility of getting the call is outlandishly low.
Click to expand...

Forget challenging pass interferences calls. I simply want the guy following him around to tell him that he's running the ball on 10 out of 13 first downs into a brick wall.
 
Uncle Rico said:
if OBrien actually made half time adjustments why did it take until the 4th Q for them to kick in?
Click to expand...

Texansballer74 said:
Million dollar question right here.
Click to expand...

First TD was scored in the third.

First possession in third Watson had an incomplete pass, a scramble for one yard, and then Watson was sacked.

Second possession was the Hopkins fumble.

(Then the Watt sack to hold Buffalo to a FG. Legendary. Momentum shift.)

Third possession was a TD.

Still in the 3rd quarter. Why would someone conclude the adjustments did not happen until the 4th? The Watt sack was in the 3rd and so was the first TD.
 
TexansBull said:
First TD was scored in the third.

First possession in third Watson had an incomplete pass, a scramble for one yard, and then Watson was sacked.

Second possession was the Hopkins fumble.

(Then the Watt sack to hold Buffalo to a FG. Legendary. Momentum shift.)

Third possession was a TD.

Still in the 3rd quarter. Why would someone conclude the adjustments did not happen until the 4th? The Watt sack was in the 3rd and so was the first TD.
Click to expand...

Man, those pesky facts seem to be getting in the way of the narrative around here.

Now if you want to argue using the plays they used in the 2nd half they should've been using in the 1st then that's a fair argument.
 
TexansBull said:
First TD was scored in the third.

First possession in third Watson had an incomplete pass, a scramble for one yard, and then Watson was sacked.

Second possession was the Hopkins fumble.

(Then the Watt sack to hold Buffalo to a FG. Legendary. Momentum shift.)

Third possession was a TD.

Still in the 3rd quarter. Why would someone conclude the adjustments did not happen until the 4th? The Watt sack was in the 3rd and so was the first TD.
Click to expand...

Stop trying insert facts into this conversation, it derails the narrative and means that certain people have to go through all the trouble of ignoring them. When will you learn that when facts get in the way of the narrative then its the facts that are wrong.
 
steelbtexan said:
Man, those pesky facts seem to be getting in the way of the narrative around here.

Now if you want to argue using the plays they used in the 2nd half they should've been using in the 1st then that's a fair argument.
Click to expand...

So he’s the only one speaking facts around here. Whenever I put facts on here , you quickly refute them with you jibber jabber. But your boy states them oh it’s the pesky facts.

Too darn comical.
 
Texansballer74 said:
So he’s the only one speaking facts around here. Whenever I put facts on here , you quickly refute them with you jibber jabber. But your boy states them oh it’s the pesky facts.

Too darn comical.
Click to expand...

Great deflection

This is going nowhere.

I was trying to have a football discussion and somehow got caught up in an elementary school discussion. Lets move on for the good of the MB as a whole.
 
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