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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

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Lucky said:
The Texans aren't running anything similar to Tom Brady's offense. Let Watson bring the offense to the line in a no huddle, and give him time to read the defense pre-snap. That would be a start.
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I'm all for BOB running the Run DeShaun Run offense because it's the playoffs. In the regular season not so much because of the risk of injury.

I would've thought after a great game that the Texans won in the playoffs (Something BOB supposedly couldn't do) this place would be a very happy place. Should've known better.
 
amazing80 said:
This is my problem with the way OB designed his offense. You also see the problems the Pats are having in recent years with it. You are relying on too many players making too many individual decisions before they even hit the top of their route and if one of them gets it wrong the entire play is screwed up. It’s one thing to have one player be the hot read but it’s another to have each player making 4-5 decisions pre snap and post snap in a matter of 2 seconds. It’s just not sustainable IMO.
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It is sustainable...the Pats have shown that it is and T-skyss named other teams who have been able to sustain it as well.

And what you’re saying is something that is true for every single offense in the history of the NFL.
 
Mr teX said:
Jones fell down at the top of the route and was not initially open...& yes he did know the blitz was coming..he outlines that in his post game presser...he spoke to the “0 blitz” coming. Unsurprisingly, the o-line blocked it wrong and someone on the right side also missed their block.
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He also was aware enough to realize Kevin Johnson was on Hopkins and would know the check. Yes, Watson still has to work on his game, but his awareness on that play speaks volumes. Yes, the OL blocked it wrong again. SMDH.
 
amazing80 said:
Neither of us will know for sure but the way he runs less each season to me means the coaches are coaching it out of him. Watson is making the decision to not run based on OB and his coaches telling him not to. Just my opinion
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I KNOW it’s the opposite b/c I’ve heard BoB go on record SEVERAL times via radio interviews and press conferences and state in so many words that he has told DW4 to not forget about his legs as another dimension to his game.
 
amazing80 said:
Not the same way we run it or the way the Pats run it. Our expectations and reads are different
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I remember all of the debate regarding if Schaub is able to audible. I think Kubiak's explanation was that in every play, there is an answer to what the defense is doing. Initially, it sounded arrogant, but the more I think about it, it makes sense.

The QB and WRs are not making sight adjustments at the LOS, the QB either checks to the run or pass play. If you change to the pass play, there is an option in the play design to counter what the OC thinks the defense is going to do. I guess that's why it's considered QB friendly.
 
Lucky said:
That's pretty disingenuous, when you're diminishing a player's contributions to the win in real time.
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Tell me how I'm trying to diminish DW4's contributions to a win?

All I said was he was lucky to get out of a blitz that he missed and made a great play. That's spot on.
 
steelbtexan said:
Tell me how I'm trying to diminish DW4's contributions to a win?

All I said was he was lucky to get out of a blitz that he missed and made a great play. That's spot on.
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steelbtexan said:
DW4 was very lucky yesterday on the pass to Jones and confused most of the game. Allen out played DW4 and the Texans still won just like I predicted.
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steelbtexan said:
Just because I dont think DW4 can win a championship playing the way he does, See: the pass to Jones...
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steelbtexan said:
There was a check down on that play to beat the blitz. (Jones and eventually DW4 got to him. But it wasn't because he new the blitz was coming. Which he should've been able to read.
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steelbtexan said:
Still not reading the blitz near well enough to win a championship. He got away with it yesterday.
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Mr teX said:
I KNOW it’s the opposite b/c I’ve heard BoB go on record SEVERAL times via radio interviews and press conferences and state in so many words that he has told DW4 to not forget about his legs as another dimension to his game.
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Using his legs and telling him not to run are two different things.
 
Earl34 said:
I remember all of the debate regarding if Schaub is able to audible. I think Kubiak's explanation was that in every play, there is an answer to what the defense is doing. Initially, it sounded arrogant, but the more I think about it, it makes sense.

The QB and WRs are not making sight adjustments at the LOS, the QB either checks to the run or pass play. If you change to the pass play, there is an option in the play design to counter what the OC thinks the defense is going to do. I guess that's why it's considered QB friendly.
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From what i can piece together that’s not what we do. OB calls a play and each players has adjustments in route based on the coverage. Each player has to make a decision pre snap and post snap as to how it’s played and react accordingly. If all of them are not on the same page then you get receivers in the same area and no options. Watson had 5 I completions yesterday and one was a blatant drop by Fells in OT. How much better do you guys expect him to be?
 
amazing80 said:
Using his legs and telling him not to run are two different things.
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No head coach is going to tell his qb Not to run dude..& if a coach is reminding his young qb to use his legs as a weapon, he’s more than telling him to run...he’s advocating he do it more often.
 
Mr teX said:
No head coach is going to tell his qb Not to run dude..& if a coach is reminding his young qb to use his legs as a weapon, he’s more than telling him to run...he’s advocating he do it more often.
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Based on the play calls and what’s on the field i disagree. Watson would not take it upon himself to not run. Makes zero sense
 
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amazing80 said:
From what i can piece together that’s not what we do. OB calls a play and each players has adjustments in route based on the coverage. Each player has to make a decision pre snap and post snap as to how it’s played and react accordingly. If all of them are not on the same page then you get receivers in the same area and no options. Watson had 5 I completions yesterday and one was a blatant drop by Fells in OT. How much better do you guys expect him to be?
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Yes. Agree. That was my point for comparing it with what Kubiak said about the lack of audibling.
 
amazing80 said:
Based on the play calls and what’s on the field i disagree. Watson would not take it upon himself to not run. Makes zero sense
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Makes perfect sense. He understands that as good as he is as a runner, it’s even easier to pass it so he tries to buy time to hit the big play. That’s the Right mentality as a qb, even if you have the god given ability to be an above average runner at the position.
 
steelbtexan said:
A 2-14 team with no QB or depth with a few good/great players.
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LOL,
You chose to forget that 9 Pro-Bowlers left from the 2012 team that includes 2 All-Pros in Watt and DBrown.
Those 2 guys alone make for a good foundation.

Not to forget Hopkins who was drafted in 2013, TEs that are as capable (or more) than OB ever had (OD, Graham, Griffin), future Pro-Bowlers Barwin, GQuin, and a complete secondary in J Jo, KJax, Manning, Quin, and Swearinger.

Not to mention a no. 1 overall pick in the draft (and higher draft slots overall), plus 4 complimentary picks that Smith and OB used to move up (and wasted them all in the process).
That 2014 draft was a total disaster.

And instead of having at least a capable back-up QB in Keenum on the cheap, he wasted amo and time invested in a lousy Savage.

LOL LOL
 
Mr teX said:
No head coach is going to tell his qb Not to run dude..& if a coach is reminding his young qb to use his legs as a weapon, he’s more than telling him to run...he’s advocating he do it more often.
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On Watson's 20 yard TD I can see O'Brien telling him to slide. To run smart, don't run into contact & push for more. Other than that I think O'b has been wanting him to run more.


Now, last couple of weeks I've been hearing Clint Stoerner criticizing our RPO game, saying it's not a "real" RPO since Watson has no intention of keeping the ball (as the read is most often for him to keep it). I've been thinking that was on Watson, deciding not to keep it. That's been the biggest factor in my change of attitude concerning BO'b the OC.

But maybe Stoerner has talked to someone & they told him that is the design.
 
thunderkyss said:
On Watson's 20 yard TD I can see O'Brien telling him to slide. To run smart, don't run into contact & push for more. Other than that I think O'b has been wanting him to run more.


Now, last couple of weeks I've been hearing Clint Stoerner criticizing our RPO game, saying it's not a "real" RPO since Watson has no intention of keeping the ball (as the read is most often for him to keep it). I've been thinking that was on Watson, deciding not to keep it. That's been the biggest factor in my change of attitude concerning BO'b the OC.

But maybe Stoerner has talked to someone & they told him that is the design.
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Why in the world would Watson, who’s been playing that way his entire life, suddenly change without it being due to coaching? It makes no sense. The guy loves running. He thrives doing it.

Why would one not assume it’s our conservative coach? It’s not logical to me
 
amazing80 said:
Why in the world would Watson, who’s been playing that way his entire life, suddenly change without it being due to coaching? It makes no sense. The guy loves running. He thrives doing it.

Why would one not assume it’s our conservative coach? It’s not logical to me
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dont get pulled into the undertow. Watson went on record in an interview before the game yesterday and compared how Buffalo used Allen’s legs with intent and design and what’s asked of him here. He said he gets his rush yards through evading the rush and creating on good defense or broken plays.

No game plan to run him. OBrien saying “don’t forget your legs” is a cop out to his incompetent play design and game call.

obviously the inside dive is scaring the hell out of everybody.
 
amazing80 said:
Why in the world would Watson, who’s been playing that way his entire life, suddenly change without it being due to coaching? It makes no sense. The guy loves running. He thrives doing it.

Why would one not assume it’s our conservative coach? It’s not logical to me
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Where did u hear he “likes” to run? Just b/c he’s good at it and has “done it his entire career” doesn’t mean he likes to. In fact I feel comfortable in saying that NO QB likes to run. Lamar Jackson came out THIS YEAR and said he absolutely HATES to run. but he has that warrior spirit about him and wants to win and ultimately will do it when it’s needed. I have to assume DW4 is the same way. But considering He’s had 1 ACL injury, and a punctured lung and at least 1 cracked rib since entering the league, he probably knows his football mortality really hinges on continuing to develop as a passer so that he doesn’t have to run as much. They don’t pay running qbs 35-40 mil a year.

I’m also sure he’s hyper aware of what he means to the success of this team. Can’t win if you’re always hurt..ask Eagle fans.
 
Mr teX said:
Where did u hear he “likes” to run? Just b/c he’s good at it and has “done it his entire career” doesn’t mean he likes to. In fact I feel comfortable in saying that NO QB likes to run. Lamar Jackson came out THIS YEAR and said he absolutely HATES to run. but he has that warrior spirit about him and wants to win and ultimately will do it when it’s needed. I have to assume DW4 is the same way. But considering He’s had 1 ACL injury, and a punctured lung and at least 1 cracked rib since entering the league, he probably knows his football mortality really hinges on continuing to develop as a passer so that he doesn’t have to run as much. They don’t pay running qbs 35-40 mil a year.

I’m also sure he’s hyper aware of what he means to the success of this team. Can’t win if you’re always hurt..ask Eagle fans.
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Link me to Lamar saying he Hates running.
 
thunderkyss said:
Other than that I think O'b has been wanting him to run more.
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But if that is the case, wouldn't OB call some designed runs? Get Watson into space so he can have some options and make some plays?

Or is it "Hey Deshaun... we all know my pass routes are crap and I can't scheme anyone open, so because you are stuck with a POS offensive design, I need you to run once the pocket collapses."
 
thunderkyss said:
On Watson's 20 yard TD I can see O'Brien telling him to slide. To run smart, don't run into contact & push for more. Other than that I think O'b has been wanting him to run more.


Now, last couple of weeks I've been hearing Clint Stoerner criticizing our RPO game, saying it's not a "real" RPO since Watson has no intention of keeping the ball (as the read is most often for him to keep it). I've been thinking that was on Watson, deciding not to keep it. That's been the biggest factor in my change of attitude concerning BO'b the OC.

But maybe Stoerner has talked to someone & they told him that is the design.
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Possibly, but I think it’s more likely a combo of both BoB and DW4. BoB would like his rb’s to do most of the heavy lifting in the run game between the 20’s. Aside from that though the only thing he REALLY wants is “controlled” running by DW4..basically he just wants the kid to protect himself and run only when he has to and when we’re close to or in the red zone and in situations when we have to have it.

You can clearly see this trend in games over the last 2 years. We get close to or are in the red zone, DW4 is most likely to pull it..TD on RPO against the Saints week 1 this year, rushing TD against KC..... 2 rushing TD’s against philly last year and the rush TD in the playoff game this year were all right at or in the red zone.

This is not to say that he won’t pull it outside of the red zone b/c we’ve seen him do that too, I just think the fact that it doesn’t happen often is PURELY DW4’s choice.

But to say there are marching orders from BoB for DW4 NOT run....I think that’s not correct.
 
Mr teX said:
There u go
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Interesting. I think he’s saying the thing people want to hear but good point either way.

I still don’t think Watson is single handily making the decision not to run. It’s a scheme thing. OB prefers a QB that will run his offense. He calls plays that he wants run regardless of what is best for the talent on the field.
 
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amazing80 said:
Why in the world would Watson, who’s been playing that way his entire life, suddenly change without it being due to coaching? It makes no sense. The guy loves running. He thrives doing it.

Why would one not assume it’s our conservative coach? It’s not logical to me
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Why would our conservative coach put it in if he doesn't want him to run? I mean I see absolutely nothing that looks like a screen game, I conclude our conservative coach doesn't want to run screens.

The common perception is that a QB has to learn to play from the pocket. & every year you have QBs who don't want to be known as running QBs & Watson knows he's very likely to get hurt if he runs the ball, like he did in previous seasons.

Bottom line is that I don't know. But I know both possibilities exist. Watch the RPOs, if the end consistently crashes down, Watson should be keeping it.
 
Mr teX said:
This is not to say that he won’t pull it outside of the red zone b/c we’ve seen him do that too, I just think the fact that it doesn’t happen often is PURELY DW4’s choice.
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This is what I'm saying.


Mr teX said:
But to say there are marching orders from BoB for DW4 NOT run....I think that’s not correct.
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I am not saying this.

Your theory about Watson leaning away from keeping it outside the Redzone is plausible.
 
thunderkyss said:
Bottom line is that I don't know. But I know both possibilities exist. Watch the RPOs, if the end consistently crashes down, Watson should be keeping it.
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Typically that is the read … I'm wondering if there is some secondary read that dictates what he does aside from that wide rusher.

It may not be a true RPO but just a running play run from that formation with no intention of pulling it.

I don't particularly care for the RPO or Spread …
 
Corrosion said:
Typically that is the read … I'm wondering if there is some secondary read that dictates what he does aside from that wide rusher.

It may not be a true RPO but just a running play run from that formation with no intention of pulling it.

I don't particularly care for the RPO or Spread …
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Listen to the father of the RPO explain it

 
banned1976 said:
This is the Bill O’Brien experience. It’s so slippery. One thing that is a constant, BoB’s players like playing for him. I’ve yet to see a crack in the foundation. I’ve always seen this “ my friend who’s inside the Texans organization tells me that the players are sick of OB’s message” as total BS.
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steelbtexan said:
No we dont

DW4 was very lucky yesterday on the pass to Jones and confused most of the game. Allen out played DW4 and the Texans still won just like I predicted.
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How the heck did Allen outplay Watson.. He looked like Jamies Winston Yesterday?
 
Another thing about OB last game:

Why the heck did he challenge the pass interference? In a playoff game what are the odds of that happening if in the regular season only one got over turned?

That was the second dumbest single thing he did in that game.
 
Carr Bombed said:
How the heck did Allen outplay Watson.. He looked like Jamies Winston Yesterday?
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Not even close, how many times did Allen turn the ball over?

He was better than DW4 for 3 qtrs. Lets just put it that way and McDemott got conservative and let the Texans back in the game.
 
steelbtexan said:
Not even close, how many times did Allen turn the ball over?

He was better than DW4 for 3 qtrs. Lets just put it that way and McDemott got conservative and let the Texans back in the game.
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He flat out dropped the ball and hit two defenders square on, they just didn't catch the ball. He did not have a great game, certainly not close to Watson... and the 4th quater/OT is money time. That's what separates the winners from the losers and Watson has always been one of the best in the NFL in the 4th quarter during his short career.

Josh Allen had a better game lol, Bills fans wouldn't even say that :)
 
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steelbtexan said:
I didn't say BOB had a good game. (Why is it the DW4 crowd always makes posts like yours) DW4 missed the blitz and got lucky it was very easy to see. But if you want to blame BOB for that be my guest.
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The way I saw that play broken down said Fells (lined up tight to the LT) missed his blocking assignment. He was responsible for the blitzer from the left side but blocked inside leaving a free runner at Watson
 
steelbtexan said:
There was a check down on that play to beat the blitz. (Jones and eventually DW4 got to him. But it wasn't because he new the blitz was coming. Which he should've been able to read.
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Watch the play again. Watson was about to make the throw to either Jones or the WR on that side but pulled it down.
Jones was in the process of falling down and the WR was covered.
 
76Texan said:
Whatever those 15 scripted plays x 17 games, OB should scratch them off the playbook. :firehair: :firehair: :corrosion: :corrosion:
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bro .. you are on a roll!! LOLLLL you need to open mic standup one night and base it on the Texans dumb mistakes and you would be a hit!!
 
amazing80 said:
Interesting. I think he’s saying the thing people want to hear but good point either way.

I still don’t think Watson is single handily making the decision not to run. It’s a scheme thing. OB prefers a QB that will run his offense. He calls plays that he wants run regardless of what is best for the talent on the field.
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There’s that confirmation bias again. most qbs don’t enjoy running mainly b/c they don’t enjoy being hit & Defensive players (d-linemen in particular) seem to put a little extra “umph!” into it when they go after the qb. They are already marked men all game, and that target only gets bigger when they run the ball.

No surprise to me at all that DW4 isn’t choosing to run it too much outside of the red zone...I’d like to see him do it a little more to help keep keep the offense out on the field a little longer, but u can’t blame him for not running more....if indeed he is the main reason for him not doing it.
 
Mr teX said:
There’s that confirmation bias again. most qbs don’t enjoy running mainly b/c they don’t enjoy being hit & Defensive players (d-linemen in particular) seem to put a little extra “umph!” into it when they go after the qb. They are already marked men all game, and that target only gets bigger when they run the ball.

No surprise to me at all that DW4 isn’t choosing to run it too much outside of the red zone...I’d like to see him do it a little more to help keep keep the offense out on the field a little longer, but u can’t blame him for not running more....if indeed he is the main reason for him not doing it.
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I don't think its about "Running More" , its about the problems he causes a defense when he is a threat to run. They cant just send 4 and think they will contain him in the pocket while dropping 7 into a two deep zone.
When you have him threaten the run , defenses have to account for that or else he's a threat to score on literally any play. That loosens up that back end …. not being able to drop 7 in a two deep zone with two deep safeties. It really dictates what the safety is responsible for - the deep half or the outside run threat.
 
michaelm said:
The way I saw that play broken down said Fells (lined up tight to the LT) missed his blocking assignment. He was responsible for the blitzer from the left side but blocked inside leaving a free runner at Watson
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They rushed 1 more rusher than the Texans had to block and in that case the QB has to get rid of the ball even if it's an incomplete pass. Luckily DW4 was able to escape the blitzer and find Jones.
 
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