KoolAid Sipper
AFCEVET
This would be stupid for the Texans if the teams DW4 wants to go do not have sufficient resources to offer for a young, talented franchise QB.
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DW4 staying or going?
- Thread starter FireBOB
- Start date
KoolAid Sipper
AFCEVET
I get what you're saying but my post is about a compromise situation and not a stance. So what is your version of a compromise? You say they will suck with or without DW4 but ask yourself this, if DW4 or his reps had not gone down this path would the Texans even think of trading him? So my compromise gives you what you want in essence and that is to do a full reset. Allowing DW4 to keep $5.4M of the bonus is nothing compared to the assets you acquire along with the cap flexibility. Of course this is all speculation as I don't know if the rules allow for this kind of contract redo.
Why should the Texans want a compromise?
KoolAid Sipper
AFCEVET
Just a different perspective for a discussion point. We know DW4 is under contract and the Texans don't have to do a thing, but what is the benefit to the Texans if he sits? I'm not interested in the effect(s) on DW4 if he sits, just the effect(s) on the Texans. If the team can seek repayment of money, does that get rolled back into the cap and I'm sure arbitration would intervene which would prolong the mess. The cap issue still exists, the lack of draft capital still exists and the subjective void of talent (def, WR, RB) still exists...so again, if the team will suck with or without him then why not reset?
You know my thoughts on DW4 so there would be no compromise. I would make an example of a guy that is trying to do what he's trying to do after I just gave him 111 mil guaranteed. Players would know we aren't the type of org to mess with. This is all about precedent.
Texian
Hall of Fame
So how would you feel if Janice was instrumental and primarily responsible for the Culley hire as Texans HC?
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
He's not going to sit or show up like Harden.
If he were to sit out the season , his cap hit wouldn't be applied and rolled to the following year. Quite advantageous for the franchise ....
Jack Burton
Veteran
Your hilariously over on some of these.
I don't think so .... My starting point is 4 #1's. I don't see the equivalent of that in any of those deals
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I see excuses to fit your narrative again. So the generational talent couldn't overcome a bad game plan and less talent? See, thats my thing with you and your judgment of Watson. Mahomes played 1 game with Bill Obrien game plan and less talent and he plays terrible , but is given a pass. Mahomes was holding the ball alot in the sb, know why? Reid/Bieniemy refused to run the ball, they continued to want to throw deep, and Tampa was able to get pressure with 4 and drop 7 in coverage 80% of the snaps. Oh, and his oline was shotty. Then ask yourself, how many times has Watson faced those odds?
badboy
Hall of Fame
If for whatever reason we do not get cornerback Howard in a trade with Miami, does agree with me to make a separate trade for him if Miami is willing? Of course depending on what we can agree to trade. He is in his prime and had seven interceptions in 2018 and 10 in 2020. He has recovered as I understand from his injury in 2019.
Jack Burton
Veteran
LoL. Exactly.
The only 2 scenarios worth HOU’s time are the 1st 2.
And that’s because hypothetically they would be in position to either have the 2nd pick or swap the 3 for 2 with NYJ. The rest are window dressing and do not address the problem. Chubb, who’s in his 5th year option will need to be paid. And I don’t even know if he’s worth it. He’s kinda meh.Then Fant the next year. Hell, I’d rather get Okuegubanam (spelling) the other rookie TE. Cheaper And just as good.
HOU is already in cap hell.
The key isn’t necessarily players, but how does HOU jump from Watson to another franchise QB.
That's the question.
Watson to another franchise QB.
Theres only 2 sure fire, elite franchise QBs in this draft. Sorry, but that’s the truth.
HOU has to prioritize getting to 2.
Because that nets them at worst Zack Wilson. On a cheap, 5 yr deal with a big window to rebuild. Like KC did with Mahomes. Like BUF did with Allen.
The rest is somewhat important in the valuation of Watson but as long as it nets you a return on your loss we’re good. CAR and DEN don’t get HOU to the promised land and all I see in those trades are expensive players who will want out so they can get paid. And those teams aren’t giving you 1st round players and more 1st rnd picks on top of them.
That’s why these teams in your mocks are doing the trades your proposing. So they can get to the promise land....
Watson. Franchise QB.
They aren’t settling for Justin Fields or Mac Jones. Neither should HOU.
HOU must get to 2. That’s the floor.
How they and these other teams do it is inconsequential. But they must do it.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
No he can't sit out his contract. If he sits out next year, or the next or even retires Texans have his rights until he completes 5 seasons of football. Thats the difference between NBA and NFL contracts, players can't wait out their contracts.
KoolAid Sipper
AFCEVET
I'm missing it, what are you saying he will do?
That article didn't say Caserio was not instrumental and primarily responsible. Only that guidelines were given. I imagine something like, "Watson said we need to be aware of past wrongs of racially biased hiring practices. There are damn good coaches out there who have been passed over & forgotten. See if you can find me one of those."
If the receiver had caught the ball in the EZ we wouldn't be having this discussion.
What we are really doing is comparing OL's. How do you think Mahomes would have performed if he had the Texans ol in the SB. I will bet you that with Tunsil protecting Mahomes backside vs Remembers Mahomes would have been fine.
Put DW4 in the same situation with Remmers and I doubt he would have done as well. Mahomes made some throws that game that no other QB except Rodgers could make. Reid should have run the ball more. They were playing with alot of 6 and 7 in the box.
I would trade for him if the price was right. All pro CB don't grow on trees. He would have to sign a 5 year extension to be here through the rebuild.
He did find Watson exactly what you're describing in Culley
If he shows up like Harden even better. That would assure you of getting 1-1 in 2022 to get your QB then you can trade Watson. His value even if he dogs it next year won't fall much.
If he shows up like Harden even better. That would assure you of getting 1-1 in 2022 to get your QB then you can trade Watson. His value even if he dogs it next year won't fall much.
Yep. And it would require him to act like a professional about this situation, which based on the little we know, he has yet to do. The cryptic tweets and refusal to take phone calls is indicative of a mindset that does not point to being a professional about it.
I'm reaching this point. Everything has a price, even a Watson trade. The Texans would be fools to act like there is not a price out there that they would accept.
And if not negotiating under any circumstance really is their position, they are putting emotional baggage ahead of the best interests of the team. Which is stupid.
Cut your losses, get the most you can, and move on with life. No single player is worth the detriment to the franchise.
From a football perspective, I just don't get the hire. He seems like a nice guy, but this is about football. Literally nobody had him on their radar as a HC.
So that leads me to believe that hiring Culley is more about the supposed "culture" they keep blabbering about, which is much less about football and more about their desire to be a factory of "character development".
And if this is the case, then all signs point to the McNairs. Maybe they didn't specifically pick Culley, but they most likely provided their guidelines and requirements, which Caserio was a good little GM lapdog and fulfilled for them with some barely known career assistance coach.
The Culley hire reeks of ownership meddling to me. JMO
I don't think Rogers could make the one Mahomes was vertical & still delivered a catchable ball. Dude is unreal.
But you don't have to be Mahomes to win football games. Rogers & Wilson are my comps for DW4, & that's better than good enough.
This is like if QT didn't fumble, if Martin wasn't worthless when completely healthy, if the defense could have got one stop during 51-7.
I haven't seen this
youtube.com
Deshaun Watson Breaks Silence On Being Stuck In Houston (parody)
#shorts #houstontexans #deshaunwatson
youtube.com
LMAO. I wonder how many people commenting thinks it's a real interview?I haven't seen this
Deshaun Watson Breaks Silence On Being Stuck In Houston (parody)
#shorts #houstontexans #deshaunwatson
I haven't seen this
Deshaun Watson Breaks Silence On Being Stuck In Houston (parody)
#shorts #houstontexans #deshaunwatson
The warson part of that is clipped from a post game presser
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
No more than you what you would seem to know as to how Watson would perform with a better organization.
Go back and read the in-game discussion of that KC game. I believe a lot of poster(s) were coming down hard on the ducking play calling, special teams, and then the defense not being able to make a stop. I don't have to absolve Watson for anything that happened during that KC game.
Worth noting, I didn't bring up the KC game in my post you chose to respond to. I brought up how much better Watson would be with the Chiefs coaching staff, offensive scheme and talent versus the Texans......you made this about the KC playoff game. Let's see 24-0....7-51 is the only game you reference when discussing Watson. I haven't heard you mention the absolute turd of a game played by Mahomes against the Bucs defense. By your analytical skills, when will Mahomes be torn apart as being a failure? Before you type, but he won a SB, this is a league of what have you done for me lately? Mahomes and KC may actually begin watching the window close on their AFC success as their team is squeezed by the new cap restraints and then Mahomes new contract starting 2022.
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leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
He's not going to sit or show up out of shape like Harden
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I really don't know why everyone tries associate a later RD1 in 2022 and beyond is viewed as something different. No one has a crystal ball that guarantees that those RD1 picks are going to be like RD2 or RD3 picks. A RD1 pick will be exactly what it for that particular draft. Sorry Houston, your trade of Watson which got some of your RD1 picks after 2021 will be adjusted for the following years....the 2022 RD1 will be moved to RD2.....2023 RD1 pick will be adjusted to a RD3 instead.
If the team that Watson. Suddenly is ransacked by injuries and wind up with a top 5 pick in 2022.....guess what, the Texans would have a 2022 RD1 pick in the top 5 and if they suck as expected in 2021.....the Texans would have 2 picks in the top 5. So, who would be crying that the Texans got a RD1 picks included in 2022 and 2023 as part of the trade package?
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Pretty much. KC won a playoff game without Mahomes playing late in the game. Thats not to say they're better without him, but we've seen Matt Moore go 3-1. We've also witnessed the Texans lose every Watsons rookie year in which he didn't play.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Here's some interesting news I just heard on NFL Radio. Waton did in fact meet with new HC Culley last Friday and let him know, in no uncertain terms, that he has zero interest in ever playing for the Texans again.
Hey Caserio, time to make the announcement to NFL teams that Watson is available and offers are now being taken.
Hey Caserio, time to make the announcement to NFL teams that Watson is available and offers are now being taken.
Texazan
Our HOF 34
Yea I just read the same thing. DW has zero intentions of ever wearing the Texan uniform again and he told Culley straight up. (face to face?)
Time to start fielding calls but he better open up his list of teams.
It’s standard practice. There’s a trade chart out there on the interweb explaining the “theory” it shouldn’t be looked at as an exact tool, but the concept is sound & reportedly every team uses something similar.
An easy example, one team offers you 1.24 from this year’s draft for your stud RB. Another team offers you 1.17 from next year’s draft. Which one presents more value?
A first this next year is not the same as a 1st this year.
Similarly a team offers you a 2.12 this year for your punt returner, another offers their 1st next year. Arguably one may place more value on next year’s 1st, but like you said, we don’t know what it’s going to be. Could be 1.29
I believe the availability of the player this season provides more value, than a future player & I believe most teams do as well.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Still say who cares what his intentions are, he is still under contract and I wouldn't mind getting that money we paid him back. Its easy to say you have no intention of playing in Feb. but when training camps roll around and there is real money on the line that uniform might not look so bad.
Texazan
Our HOF 34
Ownership has jacked this all up and they're a bunch of morons but I'm for moving his ass and getting as much as we can. You want to play hardball fine but I say screw waiting this out and making him sweat. He's a pouter and I hope wherever he goes the next team is aware that if baby doesnt get his way he'll take hit rattle and go home.
Do you actually believe if the QB's had switched sides and Mahomes was on the Texans 51-7 would've happened or that DW4 has anywhere near the god given talent Mahomes has? If so we will just have to agree to disagree.
You're probably right Mahomes window is closing after next yr because his contract will keep them from adding premium talent. If anybody can beat the odds it would take luck and not many injuries. But that would be Mahomes.
houstonhurricane
Veteran
I mean, anyone with a brain (whether you like or agree with it) has to finally be coming to the conclusion he will either be gone or play the minimum games here in order to have this next season count toward his larger contract (different than receiving his full salary). He won’t be coming back to serve as our full-time starter...ever.
The question is which outcome is better for the organization. you can huff and puff about holding firm on contracts but this franchise won’t be relevant for five seasons or more without moving him.
The question is which outcome is better for the organization. you can huff and puff about holding firm on contracts but this franchise won’t be relevant for five seasons or more without moving him.
this is where we’ve been the whole time.
I don’t want to trade him. I want him to be a Texans for life. But I’m not blind.
We won’t be relevant for 10 if we trade him for peanuts.
houstonhurricane
Veteran
Wholly agree on the latter. I don’t think many folks will be disappointed in the draft pick and even player(s) haul...the real question is whether the haul materializes into players here that ultimately make it worth it.
TexansFan15
All Pro
Honestly I foresee another situation where the Texans don’t capitalize on a trade when they need to and end up getting the short end of the sick.
I think Watson is going to sit out. They won’t trade him before the draft and we’ll end up being the laughing stock. Within a 5 year period the Texans traded Clowney for a 3rd, Hopkins for a 2nd, and more this.
Man it’s been hard being a texans fan lately.
I think Watson is going to sit out. They won’t trade him before the draft and we’ll end up being the laughing stock. Within a 5 year period the Texans traded Clowney for a 3rd, Hopkins for a 2nd, and more this.
Man it’s been hard being a texans fan lately.
Texansballer74
The Marine
From all the speculations going around of him strongly staying firm with his stance. It’s a very likely chance he’s going to sit out. I agree he’s not going to bleep out like Harden did per say but he’s going to force his way out like Harden. Makes sense?
FireBOB
Waterboy
I agree with everything except the last word.
This is a good point. It seems that this year, there are multiple teams with the draft capital to make a move for Watson and give you the opportunity to draft his replacement and recoup draft picks. If you don't trade him and the Seahawks take one of the deals on the table, have you cutoff your nose to spite your face?
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I would like to see DW stay and be happy, but now the question is... is he giving a middle finger to owners and management or the fans.
If its just to ownership and management... waive parts of your contract to make it beneficial for both yourself and team trading you. Dont demand the team trading you cripple themselves to make you happy, thats a middle finger to the fans.
If he is willing to allow for mutually beneficial trades, great, good luck to you.
If you want to give the finger to the entire city and expect to be traded for nothing in return.... go fornicate yourself and I hope you rot on the bench.... we are going to suck next season anyway.
If its just to ownership and management... waive parts of your contract to make it beneficial for both yourself and team trading you. Dont demand the team trading you cripple themselves to make you happy, thats a middle finger to the fans.
If he is willing to allow for mutually beneficial trades, great, good luck to you.
If you want to give the finger to the entire city and expect to be traded for nothing in return.... go fornicate yourself and I hope you rot on the bench.... we are going to suck next season anyway.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Fans have nothing to do w that side of the deal. That’s business. He’s been nothing but class to the city and fans. Why would we expect anything else?
badboy
Hall of Fame
overall, I agree with you but, unless we bring in someone like Russell Wilson (no way) we need an excellent QB coach whatever his title for a rookie pick. Pep Hamilton appears on paper to be that guy with experience with Herbert 2020 having great rookie year and of course Andre Luck. My POV is if we now have our QB whisperer can we take a "lesser" candidate with high ceiling like Lance and add picks? Wilson rated # 8 overall with Tre Lance 15. Let's set aside Jets for the moment and go with Miami and #3 rather than using that package to trade up for #2 which might end up being Justin Fields for NY despite most here thinking Wilson better.
We get the Miami package for Wilson but trade 1.3 to Panthers (no to Teddy) and we take Tre Lance North Dakota State. I know pros and cons but he has all skills and athleticism of Fields or Wilson or close to it. Hamilton does his magic and we have more selections? At worse, if it takes another year or Lance implodes we have choice of QB in 2022.
I think you have to take the fans out of the equation. Neither players or owners take the fans into consideration when they are making these decisions. It's why players always say it's not about the money and then go to the highest bidder and leave fans holding their expensive jerseys. It's why teams increase ticket prices when they know they are producing a crappy product for the fans to consume.
It's not about us. Hell, it's not even about Culley or Caserio. Right or wrong. It's a middle finger to Cal and/or Easterby for whatever went on after O'Brien was fired.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
I agree for the most part, but you've eventually got to do something to move your football team forward. Having DW4 sitting out isn't going to do it. He sits out, the Texans get his signing bonus back, that's great and all, but you're still a team with no draft picks and now no QB, and we play this game again next year.
I'm certainly not in favor of doing Watson any favors by moving him out and allowing him to keep all of his money and to play NFL football somewhere other than here. I'd just as soon see him never take another NFL snap than to give in to his demands, but like I said, at some point you've got to do what's best for your franchise.
I'm not sure how next year's draft sets up (I know Detroit, Jets and possibly Philly have multiple 1sts), or who the top QBs available will be (not that the top QBs this year guarantee anything), but the Texans have got to figure out if they're really going to play hardball and let this play out, thus missing on the potential haul they could get now vs. what they could potentially get next year when you're playing this game again, or should they start that moving forward process now and take that haul. Provided there's one to take, of course, which I believe there will be.