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Deshaun Watson... are we giving him a pass?

Until Watson is surrounded by talented players and coaches we can't answer this. And it's the Texans we're talking about here attempting to surround him with all this talent, so there's that.

In the meantime, it's obvious Watson is much better than your average QB, and the best QB the Texans have ever had. Elite? That's still to be determined.
 
If this team was sitting at 11-4 right now and not 4-11, Deshaun would be running full speed ahead with the MVP trophy. Losing Hopkins was the best thing to happen to him. Better coaching and defense is what’s needed imo. I say give him a “pass” 100%. He has done everything possible to put this team in winning situations.
 
7-9
6-10
12-4
5-11

Those numbers are the Detroit Lions records during Barry Sanders first four years as their running back. 1989 to 1992. Fast forward to 1997, Sanders had over 2,000 yards rushing averaging an incredible 6.1 ypc. The Lions finished 3rd in the NFC Central Division with a 9-7 record. Gottlieb logic would tell us Sanders, a man that led the league in rushing 4 times and was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2004 was not a great running back because those Detroit Lions teams hovered around average to below average for most of his career.

That's football, folks. Not all great players play for great teams. Sometimes great players can elevate his/her teammates but we can only expect so much. We can't expect average players to overachieve on a consistent basis. That's why I don't get excited over guys like Chad Hansen. One week Watson helps elevate his play by consistently delivering strikes in his direction, the next week Hansen drops a perfectly thrown ball on a critical 3rd down and we don't hear his name again...although I do think Watson went back to him later in the game. His receptions per game went like this - 5,7,2 and finally 1 for eight yards against the Bengals.

BTW, Sanders rushed for over 1500 yards in 1998, after which he retired. In his autobiographical book Barry Sanders: Now You See Him he finally gave the real reason for his retirement - he was frustrated with management and the direction of the organization. I think JJ Watt is probably feeling a bit of that right now. Can't hide it forever.
 
Watson as any player is open to criticism but I prefer to use "evaluation" as we should look at positives as well as negatives. There are two 'sides' on this MB which tend to ignore the opposite of their view. Then there is a middle that are willing to consider #4 in all areas. Some act like he is their son and immediately jump to a defense and others act like DaShaun is their step son and they are concerned he will get more compliments than their bio son.

Watson is like Thorn said; I consider Watson very good but not sure if elite but having said that he probably would be with be with better players and coaching.

Gottlieb should find another schtick or go fish.
 
banned1976 said:
7-9
6-10
12-4
5-11

Those numbers are the Detroit Lions records during Barry Sanders first four years as their running back. 1989 to 1992. Fast forward to 1997, Sanders had over 2,000 yards rushing averaging an incredible 6.1 ypc. The Lions finished 3rd in the NFC Central Division with a 9-7 record. Gottlieb logic would tell us Sanders, a man that led the league in rushing 4 times and was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2004 was not a great running back because those Detroit Lions teams hovered around average to below average for most of his career.

That's football, folks. Not all great players play for great teams. Sometimes great players can elevate his/her teammates but we can only expect so much. We can't expect average players to overachieve on a consistent basis. That's why I don't get excited over guys like Chad Hansen. One week Watson helps elevate his play by consistently delivering strikes in his direction, the next week Hansen drops a perfectly thrown ball on a critical 3rd down and we don't hear his name again...although I do think Watson went back to him later in the game. His receptions per game went like this - 5,7,2 and finally 1 for eight yards against the Bengals.

BTW, Sanders rushed for over 1500 yards in 1998, after which he retired. In his autobiographical book Barry Sanders: Now You See Him he finally gave the real reason for his retirement - he was frustrated with management and the direction of the organization. I think JJ Watt is probably feeling a bit of that right now. Can't hide it forever.
Click to expand...
I have to compare position to position as I think RB has different advantages than QB specifically adjusting to NFL.
 
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banned1976 said:
7-9
6-10
12-4
5-11

Those numbers are the Detroit Lions records during Barry Sanders first four years as their running back. 1989 to 1992. Fast forward to 1997, Sanders had over 2,000 yards rushing averaging an incredible 6.1 ypc. The Lions finished 3rd in the NFC Central Division with a 9-7 record. Gottlieb logic would tell us Sanders, a man that led the league in rushing 4 times and was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2004 was not a great running back because those Detroit Lions teams hovered around average to below average for most of his career.

That's football, folks. Not all great players play for great teams. Sometimes great players can elevate his/her teammates but we can only expect so much. We can't expect average players to overachieve on a consistent basis. That's why I don't get excited over guys like Chad Hansen. One week Watson helps elevate his play by consistently delivering strikes in his direction, the next week Hansen drops a perfectly thrown ball on a critical 3rd down and we don't hear his name again...although I do think Watson went back to him later in the game. His receptions per game went like this - 5,7,2 and finally 1 for eight yards against the Bengals.

BTW, Sanders rushed for over 1500 yards in 1998, after which he retired. In his autobiographical book Barry Sanders: Now You See Him he finally gave the real reason for his retirement - he was frustrated with management and the direction of the organization. I think JJ Watt is probably feeling a bit of that right now. Can't hide it forever.
Click to expand...

Agreed

He should've gone back to Hansen more. Gotta find out find out how many of the Hansen type guys you want to be on the team next yr.
 
banned1976 said:
Gottlieb logic would tell us Sanders, a man that led the league in rushing 4 times and was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2004 was not a great running back because those Detroit Lions teams hovered around average to below average for most of his career.
Click to expand...
Very interesting. I don’t believe that is at all what Gottlieb is saying.


banned1976 said:
That's football, folks. Not all great players play for great teams. Sometimes great players can elevate his/her teammates but we can only expect so much. We can't expect average players to overachieve on a consistent basis.
Click to expand...
I think this is what he’s saying, just from a different angle. It’s not enough to be “just” a great player.

Right or wrong when we drafted Watson I figured we’d at least get to the AFCCG. & honestly if not for covid I believe we would have. But then O’Brien would still be here.

& when we fired O’Brien I felt like we’d win out, or at least make the playoffs.

Watson’s a damn good QB & I’m glad he’s ours. Maybe we’ll win a Super Bowl soon. Maybe we’ll become true contenders. But I’m thinking we’ll be more like those Chargers teams that got close & always competed, but never got over the hump regardless how good the team around Rivers was.

But that’s better than the Lions who rarely saw the playoffs with Stafford.
 
Thorn said:
Until Watson is surrounded by talented players and coaches we can't answer this. And it's the Texans we're talking about here attempting to surround him with all this talent, so there's that.

In the meantime, it's obvious Watson is much better than your average QB, and the best QB the Texans have ever had. Elite? That's still to be determined.
Click to expand...
I think you can make a strong case Watson is the third best quarterback in football, only behind Rodgers and Mahomes.
 
IMO Watsons clock starts next season.
OB was the biggest problem, not the ONLY problem.

Watson needs to grow, I will not hold him responsible for what I believe is OB's inability.

IF a new crew comes in and Watson doesnt grow, I would be far more inclined to believe Watson isnt willing or capable of the growth he needs to be "our guy".

I like Watson and see a TON of upside so Im not against the man, but Im also not blind to his faults, we all have them.... the only shame in that is when you deny them and dont try to lessen those faults and grow.

He will have new staff to work with.... IF there isnt growth (Even if its only small steps forward.... forward is all anyone can ask) then I will blame him... (especially if he has ANY level of say in the next staff choices)
 
Exactly what this forum needed. Another Deshaun Watson thread.

thunderkyss said:
Right or wrong when we drafted Watson I figured we’d at least get to the AFCCG. & honestly if not for covid I believe we would have.
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If not for COVID? Was there a directive that our DBs had to socially distance at least 6 ft from the WRs?
thunderkyss said:
& when we fired O’Brien I felt like we’d win out, or at least make the playoffs.
Click to expand...
With the same system, players, and assistant coaches? Really?
JB said:
In his time with the Oilers, Stabler was meh
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If by meh, you mean horrific. Stabler threw 30 picks during his 1st season in Houston, including the playoff game. May have been the worst QB in Houston history. Yes, worse than Osweiler or Hoyer. Trading for Stabler was the worst mistake Bum ever made.
 
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KA4Texan said:
IF a new crew comes in and Watson doesnt grow, I would be far more inclined to believe Watson isnt willing or capable of the growth he needs to be "our guy".
Click to expand...
I’ve seen amazing growth from DW4 in the past 4 years. This is not the one read quick strike QB that came out of Clemson. This guy is playing in an NFL offense as well as anyone has ever played in an NFL offense.

Now, he needs to learn how to win games.

In a way, I’m glad he learned to play like an NFL QB first. Had he focused on winning he probably would have turned out like Luck, or Vick, who we’re still playing like they did in college.
 
Lucky said:
If not for COVID? Was there a directive that our DBs had to socially distance at least 6 ft from the WRs?
Click to expand...
Lucky said:
With the same system, players, and assistant coaches? Really?
Click to expand...

When I say “right or wrong” I’m saying I’m a dumass for thinking that way. I’d appreciate it if you don’t call me out on it & have to explicitly state I am a dumass.


Thank you
 
thunderkyss said:
I’ve seen amazing growth from DW4 in the past 4 years. This is not the one read quick strike QB that came out of Clemson. This guy is playing in an NFL offense as well as anyone has ever played in an NFL offense.

Now, he needs to learn how to win games.

In a way, I’m glad he learned to play like an NFL QB first. Had he focused on winning he probably would have turned out like Luck, or Vick, who we’re still playing like they did in college.
Click to expand...
This isn’t fair IMO. How many games has Watson put us in position to win only for the defense to let it slip or skill players fumble or make huge mental errors? I have to think that number is somewhere between 5-10 games in the last 32. Which is absurd.

watson is a generational talent surrounded by garbage being coached by garbage. Let’s see how things go over the next 1-2 years.
 
amazing80 said:
This isn’t fair IMO. How many games has Watson put us in position to win only for the defense to let it slip or skill players fumble or make huge mental errors? I have to think that number is somewhere between 5-10 games in the last 32. Which is absurd.

watson is a generational talent surrounded by garbage being coached by garbage. Let’s see how things go over the next 1-2 years.
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I bet there are Detroit Lions fans who still thinks this way.
 
Watson is 28-24 as a starter, which isn't nearly the same as the record of the four years preceding him (29-35)..

yet that W-L record is his entire argument.

And that's if you even want to put this dumpster fire of a season solely at any one player's feet.

And I admittedly stopped listening when his argument turned to DW benefitting by Bill O'Brien being a consensus 'very good offensive coach'.. because, ya..
 
Lucky said:
Exactly what this forum needed. Another Deshaun Watson thread.


If not for COVID? Was there a directive that our DBs had to socially distance at least 6 ft from the WRs?

With the same system, players, and assistant coaches? Really?

If by meh, you mean horrific. Stabler threw 30 picks during his 1st season in Houston, including the playoff game. May have been the worst QB in Houston history. Yes, worse than Osweiler or Hoyer. Trading for Stabler was the worst mistake Bum ever made.
Click to expand...
In fairness Stabler should have retired as opposed to coming to Houston.
 
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thunderkyss said:
I’ve seen amazing growth from DW4 in the past 4 years. This is not the one read quick strike QB that came out of Clemson. This guy is playing in an NFL offense as well as anyone has ever played in an NFL offense.

Now, he needs to learn how to win games.

In a way, I’m glad he learned to play like an NFL QB first. Had he focused on winning he probably would have turned out like Luck, or Vick, who we’re still playing like they did in college.
Click to expand...

What do you mean learn to win games? Again since it’s very clear to me that you don’t believe the defense cost us at least 6 games.
 
Learn to win games?
The only question left regarding how Watson’s career will pan out is if he can stay healthy long enough for the Texans to build a half decent D and an OL that can run block.

Can we snap the ball straight in the red zone with seconds left? Can we stop teams from running on us in their 2 minute drill? Can we find a way to rush 100 yards a game consistently?

We don’t need great around Watson, he’ll lift average up to that level. Just can’t be awful.
 
Only fans of losing teams that argue about their best player gives Doug Gottlieb any thought. Dude is just another mouth in the media throwing crap at a wall to see what sticks.

It's easy to write crap stories about crappy teams. There's no challenge in kicking a fan base while they are down. He's just another sleazy opportunist.
 
Double Barrel said:
Only fans of losing teams that argue about their best player gives Doug Gottlieb any thought. Dude is just another mouth in the media throwing crap at a wall to see what sticks.

It's easy to write crap stories about crappy teams. There's no challenge in kicking a fan base while they are down. He's just another sleazy opportunist.
Click to expand...

Or he could have a point.
 
Watson gets a pass, the Texans organization does not. Granted, I don’t see him much anymore living out here but I’m a huge fan of the guy. It’s sad seeing him being wasted by being surrounded by crap, on the field and off (referring to the coaching staff and ownership). Unfortunately I don’t see it getting better after BOB mortgaged off the future for Tunsil, a washed up running back, and a ham sandwich. The dude deserves better. I can only imagine what he would look like in the offense here in Tampa.
 
Even after O’Brien destroyed this team.

No defensive help.

No one stepping up on offense because his best weapon is gone.

A putrid offensive scheme setup by a horrible offensive mind.

www.espn.com

Deshaun Watson - Cleveland Browns Quarterback - ESPN

View the profile of Cleveland Browns Quarterback Deshaun Watson on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

We really having this?
 
Hookem Horns said:
Watson gets a pass, the Texans organization does not. Granted, I don’t see him much anymore living out here but I’m a huge fan of the guy. It’s sad seeing him being wasted by being surrounded by crap, on the field and off (referring to the coaching staff and ownership). Unfortunately I don’t see it getting better after BOB mortgaged off the future for Tunsil, a washed up running back, and a ham sandwich. The dude deserves better. I can only imagine what he would look like in the offense here in Tampa.
Click to expand...

Not as good as Brady.
 
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