Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

Cushing and Matthews Positive for Steriods

In actuality he could potentially have meant June immediately following his sophomore year finals in high school- Clay would be termed "a junior".

From my experience I can't think of many ball players that would think of it that way...Most tend to categorize it by what football season they're in..

Most likely his father proabably meant Clay's playing weight his junior year of high school which would be Sept./Oct/Nov. ish that year.

I agree

We can speculate all we want, I was re-quoting them so people could realize we can't pinpoint the exact dates they were each talking about. What if they were even off of the weights a tad too?

Wasn't trying to call you out...Was pretty much just using your post as a spring board into the topic I guess...

All I know is that He gained a lot of muscle mass over what appears to be a relatively short time span to gain that much weight...That doesn't automatically incriminate him, but it is kinda suspicious...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mild surprise...pretty balanced and wait and see versus the defensiveness that I expected

I also thought McClain would immediately go into the "circle the wagons" mode on this issue involving his good buddys ( Bruce Matthews) nephew, so I to am a bit surprised by his response.
 
http://yepyep.gibbs12.com/2009/01/steroids-at-usc-no-way/



He's actually had these rumors around him since he was in high school. people use the pictures in the above link & make up their mind from their eyeball test. But as i've checked around, those pictures are used out of context a bit. the 1 of him standing in the shorts is him coming off of an injury to his shoulder/knee in his Sohmore yr. i believe it was; i.e. no working out for a bit. The other of him in "hulk" phase is present day.
The picture on the left is months after major shoulder injury where he couldn't work out the entire time. The one on the left is over a year after he was back from surgery. I'm not going to say he has or hasn't taken steroids, just don't think the picture is good justification.
 
This may sound like an odd question, but are there any banned substances by the NFL that aren't addressed by the NCAA? What if a "drug" were legally available but was banned by the NFL... these prospects aren't officially in the NFL yet and are normal citizens. Technically are they no longer associated with the NCAA?

Not trying to make excuses at all but just thinking outside the box.
That would be quite the circumstance and is definitely open for interpretation. The more I think about it, the more I can't come up with a logical solution other than I'm glad the NCAA and NFL hadn't had this problem yet. There would be too many issues with it being ethical, being responsible for the consequences if caught, and the difference between rules would cause a definite riff between the two.
 
http://yepyep.gibbs12.com/2009/01/steroids-at-usc-no-way/



He's actually had these rumors around him since he was in high school. people use the pictures in the above link & make up their mind from their eyeball test. But as i've checked around, those pictures are used out of context a bit. the 1 of him standing in the shorts is him coming off of an injury to his shoulder/knee in his Sohmore yr. i believe it was; i.e. no working out for a bit. The other of him in "hulk" phase is present day.

There were three pictures at that link...

I had never seen those pictures, but they are pretty incriminating...Injury or no injury most peoples bodies don't change that drastically over that time span unless it's chmeically altered...

Really I'd just like to know the results of the tests...You are correct though that pictures don't tell the whole story
 
There were three pictures at that link...

I had never seen those pictures, but they are pretty incriminating...Injury or no injury most peoples bodies don't change that drastically over that time span unless it's chmeically altered...

Really I'd just like to know the results of the tests...You are correct though that pictures don't tell the whole story

It's very possible as he was only a freshman in 2005 when the pic on the left was taken compared to the present day picture on the right.
 
It's very possible as he was only a freshman in 2005 when the pic on the left was taken compared to the present day picture on the right.

That is possible.

I was talking about his high school photo though...
 
That is possible.

I was talking about his high school photo though...

It's difficult to ascertain. He's flexing & somewhat exposed in the high school photo to whereas the other he's not & he's covered. Who knows, we'll find out soon enough.
 
Well let's look at the exact quotes:



Those are not two contradicting quotes no matter how you slice it. Junior year in high school could mean August of his junior year entering the season. Going into college could mean August of his freshman season at USC. That could be up to a 2 year time frame by my math.

Look at the whole quote from his father:

"He was 160 pounds as a junior in high school," "His senior year, he just got taller and bigger. But you're recruited your junior year. I was thinking he wasn't going to be able to play football, and I was fine with that."

That means he was around 160 pounds during his junior season of football, otherwise his father would not have spoke about when he was recruited (in his junior year) or the fact that he got bigger and taller his senior year. He said he was thinking that he "wasn't going to be able to play football" because of size. That means he was around 160 pounds when he was recruited. I don't see why else his father would say "I was thinking he wasn't going to be able to play football" immediately after talking about recruiting. If he had gained significant weight over the course of that football season, his father wouldn't be talking about how he was thinking that Clay wasn't going to be able to play football. Scouts would see the weight gain and his father would understand that.

Plus from a common sense standpoint, it is very difficult to add significant weight during the course of a football season. Most often, you lose weight during the season due to the amount of energy you expend.


His father is not talking about his sophomore year. He is basically stating that when he was recruited (junior year) he was much smaller than his senior year.

Clay says:

My weight going into college was around 220 pounds, but somehow it gets exaggerated to make a better sotry. I was a late-bloomer physically, and then with getting into the weight room so much during college, I got to where I am today.

Going into college to me means before you've gotten there and starting any programs. Wither it be academics or athletics. I don't think he would say "going in" if he was talking about after he had already starting working out with the S&C program at USC, especially when the question is about his weight going into college. He simply would be answering the question improperly.

So, from his junior year of HS up through the summer after HS he gained around 60 pounds, according to quotes from him and his father.

60 pounds in a year and a half or even 2 years is ALOT of weight. Especially muscle.

Seems real suspicious to me.

It may be an estimated time frame and not an exact time frame, but even when looking at it from the maximum time frame it is suspicious. 60 pounds in a maximum of two years, I don't know.

And if you think about it, it is only two years if his father was talking about the beginning of his junior year, which I doubt considering the fact that his father spoke about him being recruited in his junior year, and how he was thinking that Clay may not play football. You are recruited as you play out your junior year. They don't recruit juniors before they start playing their junior year unless they are awesome.

Seems decisive enough to come up with an estimate, and when you run the numbers, it is suspicious IMO.

It could be that Clay is exaggerating his weight coming out of HS. But I don't understand why he would. There is no reason to lie about what your weight was in the past unless you feel you have something to hide that relates to it.

Gaining 20 pounds over 5 seasons of football at USC is normal. Shoot, actually, it's really not alot of weight at all in that amount of time for a football player.

However gaining 60 pounds in 2 years or less in HS is not normal IMO.

Seems a bit odd that he gained 60 pounds under a high school S&C program, yet gained only 20 under one as elite as USC.
 
Last edited:
Steroids can be a legitimate prescription medicine. I've taken it several times over the years for bronchial problems developing from fall allergies. Does the NFL ban medical use of steroids?

The body change from 160 odd his junior year in high school to 220 as a freshman in college is consistent with his interview comment that he was a late bloomer. He would have turned 16 in May, 2002. A teenagers body can undergo drastic change during these years of growth. Jacoby Jones had a similar growth spurt.
 
Steroids can be a legitimate prescription medicine. I've taken it several times over the years for bronchial problems developing from fall allergies. Does the NFL ban medical use of steroids?

The body change from 160 odd his junior year in high school to 220 as a freshman in college is consistent with his interview comment that he was a late bloomer. He would have turned 16 in May, 2002. A teenagers body can undergo drastic change during these years of growth. Jacoby Jones had a similar growth spurt.

That's not "late". When you compare 220 pounds to your average freshman D-1 linebacker it is not significantly lower. I would argue that it is higher than the average.

I don't see anything "late" about it. 220 pounds at 18 or 19 yeras old is not late blooming.
 
Steroids can be a legitimate prescription medicine. I've taken it several times over the years for bronchial problems developing from fall allergies. Does the NFL ban medical use of steroids?

Most steroids used for medicinal purposes are CORTICO steroids instead of ANABOLIC steroids. Corticosteroids are very good at reducing inflammation. They don't make you bigger or stronger. They can be used to enhance athletic performance but only for endurance athletes. I doubt the NFL has these banned and even if they are, they're probably excused with a doctor's note. I had an inflamed bursa and got a corticosteroid shot into the bursa sack; I was able to compete in a drug-tested powerlifting meet a couple of months later with no threat of getting DQ'd.

Anabolic steroids also have medicinal uses but in general, if you've got something that requires anabolic steroids to get better, you're not healthy enough to be a competitive athlete. Usually anabolics are used for things like HIV or cancer where there's a lot of tissue loss and you get anabolic steroids prescribed in an attempt to retain muscle tissue. The other time you'll get anabolic steroids prescribed is when you're older and need hormone replacement therapy. Very rarely, you'll get anabolics prescribed for some arthritic joint conditions.
 
If he was 220 coming out of high school I would completely dismiss the "late bloomer" excuse for why he didn't see the field much until this past year. 220 is plenty of weight, especially if you redshirt and put more weight on during your redshirt season. Clay Matthews did redshirt.
Here is a 2005 USC roster, listing a 19-year old RS Freshman Matthews at 225 lbs. What people seem to be missing is that as a HS junior, Matthews was 16. A year younger than most kids in his class.

Regarding the reports of steroids and marijuana test results, those tests were executed at the combine 6 weeks ago. Does it take 6 weeks to get results from these tests? No. Somebody knows the results. I find it pretty difficult to believe that NFL teams setting up their respective draft boards do not have these results in hand. Whatever those results may be.
 
Last edited:
Here is a 2005 USC roster, listing a 19-year old RS Freshman Matthews at 225 lbs. What people seem to be missing is that as a HS junior, Matthews was 16. A year younger than most kids in his class. Whatever those results may be.

Makes me think even more that he was not a late bloomer at all. Bigger than most LBs in his grade, yet he is even younger than average.
 
Steroids can be a legitimate prescription medicine. I've taken it several times over the years for bronchial problems developing from fall allergies. Does the NFL ban medical use of steroids?

.

There are different classes of steriods. What you take for allerigies is not the same medication as what the NFL bans. The one that is generally banned by sports is anabolic steriods because it directly influences testostorine (muscle grow, mass or endurance). Even within the anabolic class the particular steriod has different functions. That 's why some of the baseball players who have tested positive are not muscle bound, as the drug helps them recover quickly or not break down in August because they are tired from 6 months with only 1 off day per week.
 
Most steroids used for medicinal purposes are CORTICO steroids instead of ANABOLIC steroids. Corticosteroids are very good at reducing inflammation. They don't make you bigger or stronger. They can be used to enhance athletic performance but only for endurance athletes. I doubt the NFL has these banned and even if they are, they're probably excused with a doctor's note. I had an inflamed bursa and got a corticosteroid shot into the bursa sack; I was able to compete in a drug-tested powerlifting meet a couple of months later with no threat of getting DQ'd.

Anabolic steroids also have medicinal uses but in general, if you've got something that requires anabolic steroids to get better, you're not healthy enough to be a competitive athlete. Usually anabolics are used for things like HIV or cancer where there's a lot of tissue loss and you get anabolic steroids prescribed in an attempt to retain muscle tissue. The other time you'll get anabolic steroids prescribed is when you're older and need hormone replacement therapy. Very rarely, you'll get anabolics prescribed for some arthritic joint conditions.
Good explanation. Thanks. Can a drug test differentiate between the two? Or is it a case of testing positive, then during the followup, you provide this explanation as an argument for defense?
 
Regarding the reports of steroids and marijuana test results, those tests were executed at the combine 6 weeks ago. Does it take 6 weeks to get results from these tests? No. Somebody knows the results. I find it pretty difficult to believe that NFL teams setting up their respective draft boards do not have these results in hand. Whatever those results may be.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/03/nfl-issues-a-statement-on-drug-rumors/

Responding to the NFLDraftBible.com report that claims several NFL draft prospects tested positive for marijuana or steroids at the NFL Scouting Combine, the NFL has issued a statment emphasizing that none of the 32 teams or the league office have been informed of the drug test results yet.

Here is the unabridged statement from the league office:

“Neither the 32 clubs nor the league office know the results of drug or steroid tests taken at the 2009 Combine. The independent medical advisors who administer the tests have notified in writing those players and only those players who
tested positive at the Combine. Unfortunately, rumors about draft eligible players, including rumors about test results, begin to circulate every year at this time. Many of these rumors are circulated for self-serving reasons and they
are terribly unfair to the players and their families.”

NFLDraftBible.com, a web site unaffiliated with the league, reported that USC linebackers Clay Matthews and Brian Cushing tested positive for steroids and that Boston College defensive tackle B.J. Raji, Illinois cornerback Vontae Davis, University of Florida wide receiver Percy Harvin and UTEP kicker Jose Martinez tested positive for marijuana.

USC coach Pete Carroll denied the report, as did the agents for Davis and Matthews in separate statements released to us today.
 
RE: TexansSeminole

I'm not trying to say Matthews/Cushing have or have not used steroids. There's definitely oddities there for some to question. What gets me is that people are talking in such certainties and that's how rumors get and have gotten spread. I'm thinking very similarly as you and Polo and that, regardless that's a lot of weight. I don't want to expand on it any further because I think we've both covered how, from those quotes, there's a range in time that can be interpreted- that's all i'm pointing out. His dad's quote gets exhaggerated into Clay being the same weight through his senior season and then all of a sudden it sounds like he gained 60 lbs in a matter of months.

In anycase, the weight gain does seem odd. But i've known plenty of people who have grown through growth spurts and gained considerable weight/height.
 
The more I read about these tests the more suspicious the allegations look. Hopefully the smoke lifts in the next week or two and we get a more accurate idea of what if anything is going on.
 
Don't know if the post is in this thread or a different one, but it'd be interesting if the Texans got wind of this and that's why they weren't even at the pro day. Still seems odd because there's plenty of other talent we could look at there too.
 
Good explanation. Thanks. Can a drug test differentiate between the two? Or is it a case of testing positive, then during the followup, you provide this explanation as an argument for defense?

Corticosteroids and Anabolic steroids have very, very different effects and require different tests. An anabolic steroid test basically compares the ratio of Testosterone to Epitestosterone. If that is out of balance, then you've tested positive for anabolic steroids. The test doesn't show which anabolic steroids have been taken. And it is possible for that ratio to get out of balance naturally, it's just very, very rare. And some steroids that aren't very effective (like prohormones) will knock that ratio out of whack for a long time.

They do not look at actual testosterone levels.... which I've always found a bit odd. Patrick Arnold's trick with The Cream and The Clear that he created for BALCO was to create a mix of compounds that preserved the test/epitest ratio where it was supposed to be and jacked up the overall testosterone levels. That made it possible to jack up your test level and not trip the test as a positive.

At least, that's what I recall from the last time I had anything to do with steroid testing. I haven't talked to anyone about testing since my last meet about 4 years ago. Testing processes and methods may have changed. Last I checked, there were no tests for hGH which you take along with the anabolic steroids to strengthen connective tissue and reduce the chance of injury. Cloak, if he's reading, would probably be able to give a more up-to-date and scientifically accurate description.

Corticosteroids do not have an effect on the test/epitest ratio. The test for corticosteroids is different. Corticosteroids will usually be used for performance enhancement by guys like distance bikers and runners. Those guys use techniques and drugs that are much more advanced and esoteric than strength athletes like shot-putters, sprinters, powerlifters, football players, etc.
 
Communication from Matthew's agent to PFT

Here’s the entire e-mail that was sent to NFLDraftBible.com and forwarded to us:

“To the publishers of NFL Draft Bible, I am following up on my earlier correspondence to you today regarding your false and defamatory report that Clay Matthews tested positive for steroids at the NFL Scouting Combine. As I mentioned, neither Clay nor this office has been notified by the NFL or Dr. John Lombardo, the Independent Administrator of its Policy on Anabolic Steroids and Related Substances, that Clay tested positive for steroids or any other banned substance. Moreover, Clay has since spoken with Dr. Lombardo who likewise confirmed that Clay did not test positive for steroids at the Combine. Last, and certainly not least, the NFL has not disclosed the names of any Draft-eligible players who may have tested positive under the policy for a banned substance to any NFL club. Indeed, the NFL issued the following statement on the matter:

“Neither the 32 clubs nor the league office know the results of drug or steroid tests taken at the 2009 Combine. The independent medical advisors who administer the tests have notified in writing those players and only those players who tested positive at the Combine. Unfortunately, rumors about draft eligible players, including rumors about test results, begin to circulate every year at this time. Many of these rumors are circulated for self-serving reasons and they are terribly unfair to the players and their families.”

“Given these facts, I hereby demand that you immediately remove the story regarding the false results of Clay’s steroid test from your website and that you post a retraction clearing Clay of this grossly irresponsible and unfair accusation.

“Sincerely, Mark Humenik Vice President & General Counsel”
 
I know nothing has been confirmed yet but assuming that the article that came out saying that Mathews and Cushings have failed drug tests for steroids where does that leave the Texans on draft day?

I am almost always wrong when I think I know what the Texans are going to do with their first round pick. This year I had my heart set on Mathews but I would of been alright with Cushings. With both of them being roiders I dont think we should spend a 1st on either. I do believe however that we still need an OLB. Will there be one available at 15 that's worth picking up there? Probably not. I think we should try our best to package a deal and trade up to #3 and get Aaron Curry out of Wake Forest. Will our first and third do it? Maybe so. That is usually what it takes to move up the draft board. If we get Curry in the first then we could go DE or Saftey in the second and then RB with one of our 4th round picks.

I know this is just a dream senario but we need an OLB and Curry is the best of the bunch. Tell me what you all think....
 
Catering to the crowds.


Southern Cal linebacker Clay Matthews Jr. excites many Browns fans. His father played more seasons with the Browns than anyone except Lou Groza. The elder Matthews started at linebacker for the only three Browns teams to reach AFC title games.

It would be very special to end up there,” Matthews said in an nfl.com chat this week. “Obviously, Cleveland has a special place in my heart. I got to meet with Coach (Eric) Mangini, and I’ll be making a visit to Cleveland as well.”

Matthews sees himself as a natural pass-rushing linebacker in a 3-4 scheme. Kamerion Wimbley hasn’t fit that mold, which makes Matthews appealing.
 
I think we should try our best to package a deal and trade up to #3 and get Aaron Curry out of Wake Forest. Will our first and third do it? Maybe so. That is usually what it takes to move up the draft board. If we get Curry in the first then we could go DE or Saftey in the second and then RB with one of our 4th round picks.

I know this is just a dream senario but we need an OLB and Curry is the best of the bunch. Tell me what you all think....

If he would be the last piece of the puzzle, I would consider it. But not with where the Texans are right now. To move up to #3 to take him we'd have to give up our 2009 and 2010 1st round picks and probably our '09 3rd rounder. That's not something I want to do. On top of that, his contract would most likely be 6-year $50+ million. Not something I'd want either.

If we're looking for a 4-3 OLB at #15, Cushing and Matthews are probably it. We'll see how these rumors progress.
 
the rumours are false if any of you havent heard

I, too hope that these allegations are false. However, the teams are the first to be informed of the results, then the players. The official release to the teams have yet to be reported. Even though the Matthews agent has put out these statements, they may mean nothing until the official word is out. Every year, there are "expected" names that are confirmed, and every year there seems to be that "surprise" name...........that even surprise the agent.
 
If I remember correctly, when Warren Sapp was turning pro there were allegations that he used drugs/steroids (dunno which), it hurt his draft stock but turned into a future HoF player and I don't think he ever failed a drug test in the NFL.

Maybe this is some ploy to lower the stock of these two players by some team so they can grab him later (Maybe New England is up to its old tricks again???)

:sarcasm:
 
Last edited:
To the best of my knowledge, the teams are not informed of drug test results until the week before the draft. IF this information is true, then the teams aren't supposed to know about it, yet. Only the league is supposed to know about it at this point.
 
I hope it isn't true as well, but these are two guys who grew alot in a very few years.

This is one more reason why I like the players that have done it for several years & not just suddenly had a great year.

I guess Laurinaitis is now going to be the 2nd LB taken.:tomato:
 
the rumours are false if any of you havent heard

Too bad the outfit that posted this "news" won't be sued out of existence. I consider it rather gutless to print/post allegations that could cost these guys money and not bear any responsibility whatever if the allegations are totally bogus.

Its not that I feel sorry for the players. They'll get drafted by somebody probably for more money than I'll ever see.

But there used to be something called journalistic integrity. Now its just let's be the first to post the rumor on our website so we'll get the most hits.
Okay, rant over.
 
Too bad the outfit that posted this "news" won't be sued out of existence. I consider it rather gutless to print/post allegations that could cost these guys money and not bear any responsibility whatever if the allegations are totally bogus.

Its not that I feel sorry for the players. They'll get drafted by somebody probably for more money than I'll ever see.

But there used to be something called journalistic integrity. Now its just let's be the first to post the rumor on our website so we'll get the most hits.
Okay, rant over.

An oxymoron today..........haven't you listened to the news lately?:aggressive:
 
I, too hope that these allegations are false. However, the teams are the first to be informed of the results, then the players. The official release to the teams have yet to be reported. Even though the Matthews agent has put out these statements, they may mean nothing until the official word is out. Every year, there are "expected" names that are confirmed, and every year there seems to be that "surprise" name...........that even surprise the agent.


its the other way round according to NFLN
 
So I'm not sure if it crossed anyone else's mind, but after reading that statement from Matthews' lawyer, the first thing I thought was it's very different to say what he said vs. saying that Matthews never took steroids.
 
Doesn't mean anything - this is a "legal" statement. Our society is so messed up when it comes to our legal system, one has to be extremely careful the way public statements are worded. This statement was simply addressing the previously released and unauthorized statement of "facts" and issuing a legal warning. It is never prudent to make statements which are unnecessary. This is a "smart" statement of simple fact.
 
There were three pictures at that link...

I had never seen those pictures, but they are pretty incriminating...Injury or no injury most peoples bodies don't change that drastically over that time span unless it's chemically altered...

Really I'd just like to know the results of the tests...You are correct though that pictures don't tell the whole story

I don't know about that one....I can specifically recall a very Skinny offensive tackle from Baytown Lee, Dennis Greenawald(SP) class of '75.....who started out as a 210 pound prospect at U of H. And ended up......265 pound cotton bowl partciapant.....I also know of the same type of guy who went to A& M from the same class and never did nothing. What I know beyond doubt is Greenawald never used anything.

The whole point of the "govern yourself accordingly" letter.....the teams, the league office, and this guy's sources do not know.....the only guy who knows is some doctor running the tests. The players should have been notified after the combine.....And according to the letter, they were not, have not been notified yet. And the doctor will not release the results to the teams for another ten days or so....at least that is what they said in Path to the Draft the other night.

Absence of malice.....there is really nothing they can do. Sit on it and hope to control how deep the wound goes. Find it kinda ironic from this story that it currently parallels what is going on in congress with the new reporters shield law being proposed. Now just exactly what do reporters need to be shielded from again, Nancy ?
 
Last edited:
It is never prudent to make statements which are unnecessary.

I disagree. A public statement declaring that he did not and never has taken steroids would be a very prudent statement that would generate a lot of good will - unless it was untrue.
 
Or Flying to Bristol Connecticut and doing a test on air live. Short of a public drug test...if you love the guy you still love the guy. If you believe he's a one year wonder...with no upside ...you still believe that too. I also believe if Goodell finds out who leaked this....if there was a leak at all...they will be burned alive at the stake.
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure this has been posted or not.

Dr. John Lombardo, who administers the NFL's drug policy, reportedly told Brian Cushing and Clay Matthews Jr. that they have "nothing to worry about" regarding a report that they failed steroids tests at the Combine.

Lombardo added that the league already would've sent Cushing and Matthews letters about the alleged failed tests if the reports were true. The NFL sent letters to some players who tested positive three weeks ago, and Cushing and Matthews were not on the list. It appears NFL Draft Bible's report about the USC linebackers was false, which also calls into question their report that Percy Harvin and Vontae Davis tested positive for marijuana.

http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playernews.aspx?sport=NFL&line=142077
 
Reminds me of when Dan Marino came out, the unfounded allegations of cocaine abuse explaining his "down" season in his last year at Pitt.
 
Back
Top