Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Clowney, then what?

Without a doubt, the best player in the draft is Aaron Donald. He is an impossibility for Houston because of the defensive scheme Crennel is bringing... But any team wanting to improve their pass rush that is utilizing one gap principles on their defensive line would be foolish to draft anyone else if Donald is still on the board.
 
dalemurphy said:
Yes, Cowher built a great defense by hiring a great DC and allowing his GM to make good decisions in the draft... Not many of those great players in Pittsburgh were guys with great measurables who failed to make plays in football games.
Click to expand...

Yep. In pittsburgh,you don't see the all get of the bus squad. The traditionally take football players and they have mastered the craft of taking college de's and turning them into great pass rushers.
 
Clowney has to be the pick. Even though there are concerns about how much he wants it, Clowney is worth the risk because he’s a physical freak. Plus, between Texans OLB coach Mike Vrabel and end J.J. Watt, there’s enough help there to get the best out of Clowney.
Click to expand...
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/05/06/nfl-mock-draft-what-teams-should-do/
*****
I think there's a good chance Vrabel is the Texans' DC soon, maybe next year.
In the meantime he's the Texans' LB coach and he was a DE in college before converting to LB in the pros where he played next to Willie McGinest who was also a downlineman (weakside DE) in college at USC but became the prototype to play the DE/OLB "elephant" position with the Pats.
This all seems to be falling in place, as long as the Texans don't try to get cute and screw it up with the
pick on Clowney.
 
Having studied both prospects when they came out I would say that Ndamukong Suh was game planned against more than Clowney was. That's not to say that Clowney didn't create problems for offenses, because he did. But Suh was on another level. He forced teams to design their entire game plans to avoid him, and they still couldn't.

He came onto the scene as a JR with 76 tackles, 16 TFL, 7.5 sacks, 5 passes batted down, and 2 INTs returned for TDs.

As a SR, he was the focal point of every single team's attention whenever they played Nebraska. And he responded with 85 tackles, 20.5 TFL, 12 sacks, 11 passes batted down, and 1 INT. He won the Nagurski, Bednarik, Outland, and Lombardi Awards, and IMO was robbed of the Heisman trophy because he was a defensive player. He was far and away the best player in college football.

I think that is what people expect to see when you talk about a "once in a generation" talent. Double teams, triple teams, chip blocks, you name it. Nobody could stop him.

I recognize the physical athleticism and raw talent that Clowney has. And it is impressive. But "once in a generation" he is not.
 
leebigeztx said:
Oh really? Why is that? Sacks,tfl,and ff are traits of being dominate,right? Even when teams double or chip u 25% of pass rus chances,you can't produce more than 3 sacks and 0 forced fumbles? If andrew luck came into his last yr and threw for 2000 yds, 54%, 15 tds and 18 ints,would people be clamoring to take him number 1 or even top 10? We're talking a once in a decade talent. By the way,they said the same for calvin johnson and suh and guess what? Those guys dominated in the game and on the stat sheet in college. Are those guys not enough? Try von miller. 17 sacks 48 tckls 21 tfls as a jr, the next yr with a freshman on the same line, 11 sacks,68 tackles,and 17 tfl? How is it a guy von miller performed despite the gameplans and the protection turns,but the once in a decade talent can't?
Click to expand...

Maybe you should re read my post.
 
dalemurphy said:
Yes, Cowher built a great defense by hiring a great DC and allowing his GM to make good decisions in the draft... Not many of those great players in Pittsburgh were guys with great measurables who failed to make plays in football games.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
To put it plainly:
Cowher didn't build the Steeler defense, Dom Capers and Dick LeBeau did.
 
mussop said:
I think the point is that he has coached some great players first hand so he's probably better at recognizing what one is.
Click to expand...
Oh.

But it makes me wonder if it was Cowher who selected those guys or if his defensive coordinators guided him in the right direction. Then again, even if Cowher didn't actually pick them, he was smart enough to listen to his staff.
 
ObsiWan said:
Oh.

But it makes me wonder if it was Cowher who selected those guys or if his defensive coordinators guided him in the right direction. Then again, even if Cowher didn't actually pick them, he was smart enough to listen to his staff.
Click to expand...
Whether he made the choices or hired assistants who made the right choices, bottom line is he won a SB but of course we've got guys on this Board who are convinced that they know more about NFL prospects than somebody like Bill Cowher.
 
PapaL said:
Right? Follows a team that wins 10 games in a down year and is consistently a contender. What would they know?
Click to expand...

Why would being a fan of a team that wins 10 games in a down year and is consistently a contender imply that the guy knows anything about which pick to draft?
 
mussop said:
There's always someone.
Click to expand...
You have to wonder who this "someone" is and what's his agenda...

and I'm not a Clowney supporter but I get suspicious when someone who lacks the 'nads say what he's got to say in public torpedoes a player. I wonder what's up.
 
mussop said:
There's always someone.
Click to expand...

I look at Clowney the same way I look at Bridgewater. Yes, there are a lot of things to like, but sooner or later you've got to stop & start looking at those red flags. There's got to be a time when you say, "That's too many." or "That's enough."

Now with Bridgewater, it's not so bad, because all his competition have many of the same red flags, or other red flags that are just as concerning.

Clowney, not so much. You've got guys like Mack & others that will be available later, may not be as gifted athletically, but damn good players just the same, without the red flags.
 
Playoffs said:
http://www.sports790.com/media/podc...pergentlemen/tuesday-may-6th-2014-2-24727933/

Lance Zierlein: "Jadeveon Clowney... there's someone on that staff (at South Carolina) that's killing him with some teams in the NFL. 'This guy was a big problem for us and I can't wait for him to leave.'"

Issues with: work ethic/habits, he was a diva to work with from a practice perspective.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I've never heard so much crap about a player who is supposed to be so fricken good. He never impressed me with all of this stuff they keep saying about him as far as being this once in a generation type of player. He is a big and tall and athletic pass rusher just like many who come out every year.

The Texans don't want him. I'm glad. South Carolina didn't need him either.
 
ObsiWan said:
You have to wonder who this "someone" is and what's his agenda...

and I'm not a Clowney supporter but I get suspicious when someone who lacks the 'nads say what he's got to say in public torpedoes a player. I wonder what's up.
Click to expand...

Common sense Obsi. They don't want to mess up their recruiting for the future. Clowney had to have been so bad that they don't want to see him rewarded for how he behaved with the team.
 
Texecutioner said:
Common sense Obsi. They don't want to mess up their recruiting for the future. Clowney had to have been so bad that they don't want to see him rewarded for how he behaved with the team.
Click to expand...

You will believe anything you hear negative about Clowney won't you?
 
Playoffs said:
Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
Click to expand...
*****
Asked an AFC exec what does Jadeveon Clowney look like if he’s not as good as advertised? Answer: Julius Peppers or Mario Williams.
*****
So Clowney's downside is a career equivalent to Mario or Peppers ?
 
IDEXAN said:
*****
Asked an AFC exec what does Jadeveon Clowney look like if he’s not as good as advertised? Answer: Julius Peppers or Mario Williams.
*****
So Clowney's downside is a career equivalent to Mario or Peppers ?
Click to expand...
According to Ian's unnamed AFC exec...probably the same guy that signed MW. Take it FWIW.
 
bah007 said:
Having studied both prospects when they came out I would say that Ndamukong Suh was game planned against more than Clowney was. That's not to say that Clowney didn't create problems for offenses, because he did. But Suh was on another level. He forced teams to design their entire game plans to avoid him, and they still couldn't.

He came onto the scene as a JR with 76 tackles, 16 TFL, 7.5 sacks, 5 passes batted down, and 2 INTs returned for TDs.

As a SR, he was the focal point of every single team's attention whenever they played Nebraska. And he responded with 85 tackles, 20.5 TFL, 12 sacks, 11 passes batted down, and 1 INT. He won the Nagurski, Bednarik, Outland, and Lombardi Awards, and IMO was robbed of the Heisman trophy because he was a defensive player. He was far and away the best player in college football.

I think that is what people expect to see when you talk about a "once in a generation" talent. Double teams, triple teams, chip blocks, you name it. Nobody could stop him.

I recognize the physical athleticism and raw talent that Clowney has. And it is impressive. But "once in a generation" he is not.
Click to expand...

Not much I can say after this post. That's what I'm saying when the excuse makers come out in full force. I posted Von Miller stats and he gathered the same attention after a dominant jr yr.
 
I just don't get how anyone who is lucky enough to root for guys with incredible, non-stop motors like Watt, Cushing, and Andre could actively want someone who has so many damn motor concerns.

If he's gonna be good, I'm perfectly content with having him be good for someone else.
 
TheMatrix31 said:
I just don't get how anyone who is lucky enough to root for guys with incredible, non-stop motors like Watt, Cushing, and Andre could actively want someone who has so many damn motor concerns.

If he's gonna be good, I'm perfectly content with having him be good for someone else.
Click to expand...

THIS!!

3 sacks in an entire year from a DE who is supposed to be the best player in the draft?

I do not understand the love for the guy. Imagine a QB entering the draft whose TD to INT ratio was 1/1 and completion percentage was 53%... Who would be defending him because the opposing defenses game-planned against him?

Or, a stud RB who averaged 2.5 yds per carry because the opposing teams stacked the box.

Or, the stud WR who finished the season with 43 receptions, 600yds, and 3 TDS-- "not his fault, because he was double covered on every play".
 
thunderkyss said:
I look at Clowney the same way I look at Bridgewater. Yes, there are a lot of things to like, but sooner or later you've got to stop & start looking at those red flags. There's got to be a time when you say, "That's too many." or "That's enough."

Now with Bridgewater, it's not so bad, because all his competition have many of the same red flags, or other red flags that are just as concerning.

Clowney, not so much. You've got guys like Mack & others that will be available later, may not be as gifted athletically, but damn good players just the same, without the red flags.
Click to expand...

I don´t know about Mack not having any red flags. On the very limited tape I viewed he looked pretty hesistant at times, even slow at some instances. Sure, you could say he was patient, but I didn`t see a dominant athlete. He lacked explosion on several snaps. And remember, he didn´t play against the best competition either.

To put it this way: even though Clowneys stats were far worse, his film looked a lot more impressive to me, simply because he affected more plays and was consistently double teamed. Now I am worried about the work ethic and the missing technique as well, but on tape to me, he looked more impressive.

I am not saying Mack is a bad player or a bad prospect - no he definetly deserves to be a top 5 pick, maybe even a number 1 pick. But he has questionmarks just as any other player in this draft.

I guess if you want a player without questionmarks, you need to select Matthews. Maybe Robinson, maybe Watkins and maybe Evans.

@dalemurphy
It is way easier to take a DE out of the picture than it is to take a QB out. You put 2-3 guys on him and his life is tough as hell. What are you gonna do against a QB? Blitz him? Good QBs will make him pay. Disguise coverages? Good QBs will find the open man anyways.

I hate Clowneys last season, because it does make the first pick a lot more questionable. He does take plays off, he does get frustrated when the other team is double teaming him and he probably didn`t play 100% so that he doesn`t get injured. And I hate all that. But still, the tape is impressive, he is a physical freak and just as you hope our QB-coach can "fix" a QB we take, you just have to hope that Watt, Cushing and Vrabel can "fix" his motor.
 
LikeMike said:
I guess if you want a player without questionmarks, you need to select Matthews. Maybe Robinson, maybe Watkins and maybe Evans.
Click to expand...
I would say Matthews is the only "clean" prospect. His dad (a HOFer) was best at Guard and Center. Jake may not translate to an NFL LT. Robinson's pass blocking is a work in progress. Watkins does most of his damage around the LOS. Then there's the suspension. Evans' route running is raw. Mack's level of competition. Clowney's motor/foot/whatever. And I'm not even getting into the QBs.

The Texans aren't going to get Mr. Perfect. Let's forget about that.
 
Playoffs said:
http://www.sports790.com/media/podc...pergentlemen/tuesday-may-6th-2014-2-24727933/

Lance Zierlein: "Jadeveon Clowney... there's someone on that staff (at South Carolina) that's killing him with some teams in the NFL. 'This guy was a big problem for us and I can't wait for him to leave.'"

Issues with: work ethic/habits, he was a diva to work with from a practice perspective.
Click to expand...

This sounds much like what was being said about Sam Montgomery. Therefore Clowney should be THE MAN for the Texans.
 
That's not many. Sorry but I'm not impressed with those numbers at all. I would have expected much more from the big dominating physical guy that he is. Something is wrong. I'm not going to spend that kind of money on a player that puts out that kind of effort.

Besides that, our first and foremost need is a Quarterback. Why are we so high about drafting another 'DE!!. Did any of you people even watch the games last year for crying out loud. You should know what our biggest need is and it's not DE.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Duly noted and this has been discussed in depth hundreds of times in the Clowney thread. For more information see Clowney, then what?
 
steelbtexan said:
I haven't heard anything about Clowney's drug usage?
Click to expand...

I don't know anything about drug usage but do have my suspicions. I was thinking more along the lines about being lazy, negative comments from staff, a Prima Donna, lack of motivation and initiative.

"Lance Zierlein: "Jadeveon Clowney... there's someone on that staff (at South Carolina) that's killing him with some teams in the NFL. 'This guy was a big problem for us and I can't wait for him to leave.'"

Issues with: work ethic/habits, he was a diva to work with from a practice perspective.
 
Like someone said before - there is always someone saying stuff like that. Maybe someone betted in Vegas against him going #1, maybe he wants Clowney to go to another team. Maybe he is right.

I do have my concerns in that regard and I believe that at least some of the things being said are true. A guy that always was the best and didn`t have to do much for it, well that`s someone you have to watch closely. Clowney doesn`t seem like a very mature guy.

I think, whichever team takes him, needs to work with him very closely. I think, if he goes to the Texans, he will have Watt never leaving his side. He needs to understand, that he has the chance to be special, build a legacy and make a bucketful of money, but that he has to work hard for it. Everyday in practise, every play. He needs to eat right, stay away from drugs and live and breath football. He doesn`t have to do it forever. Do it for the next 10-15 years and you will have your place in history and more money, than you could ever spend.

Like I said, I think (and mostly hope) that we have the right guys in Watt, Cushing and Vrabel to get his head on straight. But it definetly is a concern.
 
Hi, Im humblegeo. You might remember me from such Texans threads as "Andre Johnson, what is he good for?" and "Oh no! The Texans will waste our draft picks!"
 
Texecutioner said:
Common sense Obsi. They don't want to mess up their recruiting for the future. Clowney had to have been so bad that they don't want to see him rewarded for how he behaved with the team.
Click to expand...
Whatever the motive is, it's still a chickensh!t thing to do.

And if I'm thinking about attending S.Car. to play football and I hear about the whispers dissing their best defensive player, why would I believe that when they're done with me the coaching staff wouldn't repeat the same behavior and dis me to NFL scouts too.

I wouldn't trust them AT ALL.
 
ESPN draft analyst Adam Schefter says that the Houston Texans have some unique insights on potential top overall draft pick Jadeveon Clowney. Schefter wrote on his Facebook page today:

"Houston has a unique insight into South Carolina DE Jadeveon Clowney. Texans new strength and conditioning coach, Craig Fitzgerald, was South Carolina’s strength and conditioning coach from 2009-2011.

The father of Houston’s new quality control coach Will Lawing, Brad Lawing, was Clowney’s defensive line coach at South Carolina. If any team has all the information it needs on Clowney, it’s Houston."
Click to expand...


Texans are in a unique position to best gauge whether they should select Clowney #1 or go in another direction.Can't say they aren't informed on him.
 
Blake said:
Hi, Im humblegeo. You might remember me from such Texans threads as "Andre Johnson, what is he good for?" and "Oh no! The Texans will waste our draft picks!"
Click to expand...
"Andre Johnson, what is he good for?"

Oh, about 100 catches for 1400 yards.

TBD on the 2nd question.
 
Playoffs said:
Brian T. Smith ‏@ChronBrianSmith
Jadeveon Clowney just dove headfirst into a ballpit. Stayed "underwater" for five seconds. #NFL #Texans
Click to expand...
https://vine.co/v/M6IQI2xteXM

[imgwidthsize=400]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnCnlQiCMAE5s22.jpg[/IMG]
Sammy Watkins and the Clown coaching 'em up.
Click to expand...

See there he goes taking plays off again. A guy with a non-stop motor would have stayed underwater for at least 10 seconds and performed a backflip into the ball pit.
:stirpot:
 
Brian T. Smith ‏@ChronBrianSmith · 11m
Jadeveon Clowney was just asked if #Texans will regret passing on him at No. 1. "I don't think they're going to pass," he said smiling. #NFL
Click to expand...

:trophy::trophy::trophy:
 
DX-TEX said:
Brian T. Smith ‏@ChronBrianSmith · 11m
Jadeveon Clowney was just asked if #Texans will regret passing on him at No. 1. "I don't think they're going to pass," he said smiling. #NFL
Click to expand...
:trophy::trophy::trophy:
Click to expand...

With this news and the fact that Clowney said he spoke to Rick Smith 3+ times last week, I'd say it's starting to look like Clowney :evil:
 
Allstar said:
With this news and the fact that Clowney said he spoke to Rick Smith 3+ times last week, I'd say it's starting to look like Clowney :evil:
Click to expand...

Dan Wetzel ‏@DanWetzel · 14m
Clowney said if he gets to team up with JJ Watt then Andrew Luck, "better have his head on a swivel."
Click to expand...

Sure isn't lacking in confidence.
 
DX-TEX said:
Sure isn't lacking in confidence.
Click to expand...

I just hope he can back it up. If what they say is true and that he basically took off his last year in college, to not risk injury, just to show off what he has got for the Pros, then draft him and turn him loose....

If he ends up another Mario Williams and the other QBs end up being stars, it will be the 2006 draft all over again...
 
Playoffs said:
He gonna get humbled early like Bruce Smith did.

I could see OB making him 2nd string -- not sure if Crennel would do that.
Click to expand...

come'on man, unless I am missing the sarcasm, no fraking way you draft Clowney #1 to make his 2nd string....

This kid starts day 1 where ever he goes....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top