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Carr vs. Sage

Blake

Blake

MMQB
You knew this thread was coming back.

I want to get everyones assesment after the pre-season on the 2 QB's for our beloved Texans. My take:

Carr: I understand he is playing 1's against 1's, and that is more dificult. But my problem with him has focused on his decision making. His WR stare down. His unwillingness to throw downfield. How many times did I see the kid roll out with nobody in 10-15 yards of him, only to see him throw 5 yards to someone who is covered. He doest scan the field as well as I would like either.

Sage: Like I said, Sage isnt playing against the 1's, but he also isnt using our #1's. But so far he has looked very good. He does a good job of looking off defenders, something even Porter/Pickett do. He views the field well, and finds the receivers down the field.

To say the least, I have been dissapointed with Carr, and Happy with Sage. I know Kubiak stands behind Carr, and I hope he proves me wrong on this by making Carr a great QB, but I think Carr will be the demise of this team.

Let me hear what you think? And while you do that, here are some stats to chew on.

David Carr
Att: 44
Comp: 28
Yards: 250
TD's: 0
Int: 1
Sacked: 3

Sage Rosenfels
Att: 51
Comp: 32
Yards: 329
TD's: 4
Int: 0
Sacked: 0
 
Super Mario said:
Let me hear what you think? And while you do that, here are some stats to chew on.
Click to expand...
"Facts are stubborn, but statistics are more pliable" - Mark Twain


If Carr goes down this season due to injury. God help us. Sage isn't the answer as much as I and everyone on here would like him to be.


Hopefully Carr becomes the guy we thought we were drafting. If not....it should be an interesting off season.
 
LBC_Justin said:
"Facts are stubborn, but statistics are more pliable" - Mark Twain


If Carr goes down this season due to injury. God help us. Sage isn't the answer as much as I and everyone on here would like him to be.


Hopefully Carr becomes the guy we thought we were drafting. If not....it should be an interesting off season.
Click to expand...

So what has Carr done to make you believe he is, and what has Sage done to make you believe he isn't ? And don't give me the "he's only played three games" answer...that response is overated...
 
This thread....

swfighting.jpg
 
HELL, PICKETT LOOKED GOOD LAST NIGHT! MAYBE HE SHOULD START OVER CARR TOO! THROW PORTER IN THERE TOO! WHY DO WE EVEN NEED DAVID CARR WHEN WE HAVE SO MUCH POTENTIAL ON THE BENCH! OMG!

this thread should be deleted
 
I love how everyones response to my query is to state that this thread is "beating a dead horse"

Listen, if you dont want to debate it, leave the thread. Dont post stupid crap like you are being cute.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
So what has Carr done to make you believe he is, and what has Sage done to make you believe he isn't ? And don't give me the "he's only played three games" answer...that response is overated...
Click to expand...
Carr has done nothing. I don't believe in him...yet. In fact he makes me nervous. But I pray he works out, for the sake of our team. But I can tell, Sage is a career back up. The best we could ever hope for from him is a Jake Plumber(best case senario). Call me crazy but I want more. Is Carr the answer, god I hope so. Would I bet my mortgage on it....no, in fact I would bet $10 on it, but I am hoping.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
So what has Carr done to make you believe he is, and what has Sage done to make you believe he isn't ? And don't give me the "he's only played three games" answer...that response is overated...
Click to expand...

This topic has been ran into the ground so much that there is little that can be freshly added to discuss. The only real way to look at it is carr is our starter because kubiak said so its as simple as that. Coach has made up his mind and i dont think anything short of carr getting hurt in preseason would have changed that.
 
MANN, it's time to get over this Carr vs. Sage, this s##t is really getting old. Kubiak makes the decision and whichever way he rolls, I'm rolling with him. BTW, I never seen a QB who did everything perfect, these things you mentioned I'm pretty sure can be corrected.
 
If you have a backup QB that causes a QB controversy, then that's exactly the kind of backup QB you want.

Case in point:
Steve Beuerlein was good enough to win when he was called upon and helped the Cowboys win a Super Bowl.

He had an average career as a starter. Not much more than a good game manager.

Anyone remember Rob Johnson?

Scott Mitchell?

Cody Carlson?
 
LBC_Justin said:
Carr has done nothing. I don't believe in him...yet. In fact he makes me nervous. But I pray he works out, for the sake of our team. But I can tell, Sage is a career back up. The best we could ever hope for from him is a Jake Plumber(best case senario). Call me crazy but I want more. Is Carr the answer, god I hope so. Would I bet my mortgage on it....no, in fact I would bet $10 on it, but I am hoping.
Click to expand...


Kinda funny that you mention Jake Plummer. How much longer do you guys think he has in Denver? Looks like the heat's on over there now.

If Carr doesn't pan out in the next couple of years wouldn't it stand to reason that he might end up in Houston? :hides:

I wonder how hard it would be for a couple of guys from Denver to trade with them? Coaches like to work with their guys. Plummer's a Kubiak guy.

Something to chew on.
 
LBC_Justin said:
Carr has done nothing. I don't believe in him...yet. In fact he makes me nervous. But I pray he works out, for the sake of our team. But I can tell, Sage is a career back up. The best we could ever hope for from him is a Jake Plumber(best case senario). Call me crazy but I want more. Is Carr the answer, god I hope so. Would I bet my mortgage on it....no, in fact I would bet $10 on it, but I am hoping.
Click to expand...

JP went to a pro-bowl....I'm not sure how you came to the descision that Sage will be forever relegated to be a back-up..especially when he's looked light years ahead of our starter...How can you make such judgements about a guy that you've barely seen play...but not be so sure about Carr, who has been a on this team for 5 yrs ?
 
Battle Red Bull said:
Kinda funny that you mention Jake Plummer. How much longer do you guys think he has in Denver? Looks like the heat's on over there now.

If Carr doesn't pan out in the next couple of years wouldn't it stand to reason that he might end up in Houston? :hides:

I wonder how hard it would be for a couple of guys from Denver to trade with them? Coaches like to work with their guys. Plummer's a Kubiak guy.

Something to chew on.
Click to expand...

I was listening to Mike Shanahan on the NFL Network yesterday and he was talking about how Plummer has been in his system for 3 or 4 years now and how Plummer has been getting comfortable and adjusting well to it in the last year or two. I may have taken it out of context or misunderstood since I was only half listenting but it seemed to me he was implying it took a little while for Plummer to get comfortable in Shanahan's system. And before I getted jumped on I am not saying Carr should get a free 4 year pass or anything like that. I would just like to see Carr in this system for at least one full season before I'm ready to come to a final opinion on Carr. I have been defending Carr for awhile now but he's got no more excuses. Our defense has done a 180 already and now it's Carr's turn.
 
texflex513 said:
This topic has been ran into the ground so much that there is little that can be freshly added to discuss. The only real way to look at it is carr is our starter because kubiak said so its as simple as that. Coach has made up his mind and i dont think anything short of carr getting hurt in preseason would have changed that.
Click to expand...
K.D. said:
MANN, it's time to get over this Carr vs. Sage, this s##t is really getting old. Kubiak makes the decision and whichever way he rolls, I'm rolling with him. BTW, I never seen a QB who did everything perfect, these things you mentioned I'm pretty sure can be corrected.
Click to expand...

I respect everyones comments...But if you don't want to discuss it just don't come into the thread...you see the title but yet you choose to enter anyways...I agree that Kubes makes the descision and not us...that is a "Duh" statement...But my question to you is...Why discuss anything..like roster cuts...Which RB's will won't make it ? ect...None of the descisons are ours.....This is a message board and this is where it shall be discussed...I understand people are tired of hearing about it....But he didn't trick you into making you enter this thread....
 
Comparing Sage vs backups and Carr vs starters is like comparing apples and oranges . . .
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I agree that Kubes makes the descision and not us...that is a "Duh" statement...But my question to you is...Why discuss anything..like roster cuts...Which RB's will won't make it ? ect...None of the descisons are ours.....This is a message board and this is where it shall be discussed...I understand people are tired of hearing about it....But he didn't trick you into making you enter this thread....
Click to expand...

Thank you. Great post.
 
LORK 88 said:
Comparing Sage vs backups and Carr vs starters is like comparing apples and oranges . . .
Click to expand...

Either that, or its like compairing a QB who sucked this pre-season to 3 who did a good job.
 
chuckm said:
Please post Porter and Pickett's stats, so we can have a REAL debate ....
Click to expand...

IMO, thats not a reasonble discussion.....Moving a player from third to first isn't the same as moving a player from second to first...If you want to discuss a Porter/Pickett or Porter/Sage thread I'll be happy to chime in...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I respect everyones comments...But if you don't want to discuss it just don't come into the thread...you see the title but yet you choose to enter anyways...I agree that Kubes makes the descision and not us...that is a "Duh" statement...But my question to you is...Why discuss anything..like roster cuts...Which RB's will won't make it ? ect...None of the descisons are ours.....This is a message board and this is where it shall be discussed...I understand people are tired of hearing about it....But he didn't trick you into making you enter this thread....
Click to expand...


he hooked me with the little yellow icon ..... but then I've always been a sucker for exclamation points ....
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
IMO, thats not a reasonble discussion.....Moving a player from third to first isn't the same as moving a player from second to first...If you want to discuss a Porter/Pickett or Porter/Sage thread I'll be happy to chime in...
Click to expand...


I agree ..... I guess I should've used a sarcasm thingy ...... stats are useless (IMO) in the preseason .... now if you want to discuss perceptions (like Carr v. Rosenfels comfort level, Carr v. Rosenfels read progression, .....) then we may be on to something ....
 
chuckm said:
I agree ..... I guess I should've used a sarcasm thingy ...... stats are useless (IMO) in the preseason .... now if you want to discuss perceptions (like Carr v. Rosenfels comfort level, Carr v. Rosenfels read progression, .....) then we may be on to something ....
Click to expand...

Exactly...finally an objective soul...
 
I have to say that First I am a Homer, and love Carr as out QB, BUT, even I have been bothered by the stats. Sage looks so comfortable, maybe because he has less expectations on him, and Carr does seem to dance a bit. If Carr looks at enough film of the pre-season and last season side-by-side he will see that the amount of time he has is more than enough to dump the ball off to the RB, throw it away, or tuck and run. Carr is the man, but I need to see two wins out of the first four games.

:homer:
 
Super Mario said:
http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/HOU/2006/pre

All 4 QB's stats.

Lets just say everyone but Carr has an 85+ QB rating.
Click to expand...

Gus Frerotte 108.9
Marc Bulger 65.3

Seneca Wallace 82.1
Matt Hasselbeck 64.3

Bruce Gradkowski 105.3
Chris Simms 65.9

Jake Delhomme 83.1
Stefan LeFors 93.9

Todd Collins 78.8
Mark Brunell 49.0

Omar Jacobs 99.5
Ben Roethlisberger 76.1

Let's see what happens in the regular season.
 
srstex said:
I have to say that First I am a Homer, and love Carr as out QB, BUT, even I have been bothered by the stats. Sage looks so comfortable, maybe because he has less expectations on him, and Carr does seem to dance a bit. If Carr looks at enough film of the pre-season and last season side-by-side he will see that the amount of time he has is more than enough to dump the ball off to the RB, throw it away, or tuck and run. Carr is the man, but I need to see two wins out of the first four games.

:homer:
Click to expand...

I actually haven't even looked at the stats...I have never been a stat person...I'd rather watch two players play for a certain amount of time and then determine who I think is better...At this point I can't really say Sage is the better QB although IMO, he has performed better this pre-season...i would have liked to see Sage get some reps with the first team, but Kubes knew better than that, because if Sage would have done better than Carr with the first team, against first teamers there wouldn't have been any more exscuses to hide behind and it may have divided the locker room.....
 
Super Mario said:
You knew this thread was coming back.

I want to get everyones assesment after the pre-season on the 2 QB's for our beloved Texans. My take:

Carr: I understand he is playing 1's against 1's, and that is more dificult. But my problem with him has focused on his decision making. His WR stare down. His unwillingness to throw downfield. How many times did I see the kid roll out with nobody in 10-15 yards of him, only to see him throw 5 yards to someone who is covered. He doest scan the field as well as I would like either.

Sage: Like I said, Sage isnt playing against the 1's, but he also isnt using our #1's. But so far he has looked very good. He does a good job of looking off defenders, something even Porter/Pickett do. He views the field well, and finds the receivers down the field.

To say the least, I have been dissapointed with Carr, and Happy with Sage. I know Kubiak stands behind Carr, and I hope he proves me wrong on this by making Carr a great QB, but I think Carr will be the demise of this team.

Let me hear what you think? And while you do that, here are some stats to chew on.

David Carr
Att: 44
Comp: 28
Yards: 250
TD's: 0
Int: 1
Sacked: 3

Sage Rosenfels
Att: 51
Comp: 32
Yards: 329
TD's: 4
Int: 0
Sacked: 0
Click to expand...


It is quite possible, that David Carr will be a flop.......... It is possible that he might not be put back together again.

Knowing that, passing on VinceYOung upset me......... quite a bit. But, Kubiak went after this guy Rosenfels..... I figured he was up to something.

My biggest fear, was that Carr would flop, then we'd be looking for another QB.

I'm confident in Sage now, that if Carr does stink it up, and we cut him, I don't think we'd be as desperate for a QB. we can start Sage, as Porter develops....... and if Sage doesn't cut it, we'd have Porter. By the time we find that Porter won't cut it, we'd have another couple of QBs being developed.

Not the same thing as having Vince Young(who I'm sure will one day be in the HoF), but our bases are covered.
 
thunderkyss said:
It is quite possible, that David Carr will be a flop.......... It is possible that he might not be put back together again.

Knowing that, passing on VinceYOung upset me......... quite a bit. But, Kubiak went after this guy Rosenfels..... I figured he was up to something.

My biggest fear, was that Carr would flop, then we'd be looking for another QB.

I'm confident in Sage now, that if Carr does stink it up, and we cut him, I don't think we'd be as desperate for a QB. we can start Sage, as Porter develops....... and if Sage doesn't cut it, we'd have Porter. By the time we find that Porter won't cut it, we'd have another couple of QBs being developed.

Not the same thing as having Vince Young(who I'm sure will one day be in the HoF), but our bases are covered.
Click to expand...

Even though I disagree with you on a lot of things...I always enjoy your post...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I respect everyones comments...But if you don't want to discuss it just don't come into the thread...you see the title but yet you choose to enter anyways...I agree that Kubes makes the descision and not us...that is a "Duh" statement...But my question to you is...Why discuss anything..like roster cuts...Which RB's will won't make it ? ect...None of the descisons are ours.....This is a message board and this is where it shall be discussed...I understand people are tired of hearing about it....But he didn't trick you into making you enter this thread....
Click to expand...

I dont remember saying i didnt want to discuss it... which is why im right back in the middle of the thread...I merely stated why carr is going to be the starter and you say duh but seriously some people have gotten so caught up into it that they have forgotten that. I think carr should be the starter because he deserves a second chance for what he and this team have been thru whether he takes advantage or not we will just have to wait and see...GO CARR!!!:homer: SAGE who?
 
Feel free to flame me for posting this ...... but ....


Has anyone else "caught" themselves taking some small measure of pleasure when Sage throws an incompletion?


I have to keep reminding myself "He' a Texan, He's a Texan, ..." ....

I try to stay away from these ridiculous threads but I can never quite do it ....
 
lol yes the same way i was when smith had that big run last night... because i truly want taylor to make this squad.
 
infantrycak said:
Let's see what happens in the regular season.
Click to expand...

Good post. But what do you think about the way Carr (IMO) still locks on receivers, and is unwilling to throw the deep ball. I am pretty sure that he threw a total of 1 deep ball to Johnson. Everything is dink and dunk, a 10 yard dump off on 3rd and 15.

I just dont see ANY progress like I thought Kubiak expected. He frustrates me.
 
Super Mario said:
Good post. But what do you think about the way Carr (IMO) still locks on receivers, and is unwilling to throw the deep ball. I am pretty sure that he threw a total of 1 deep ball to Johnson. Everything is dink and dunk, a 10 yard dump off on 3rd and 15.

I just dont see ANY progress like I thought Kubiak expected. He frustrates me.
Click to expand...

Thats true...But something else to keep in mind is that we haven't been using our whole playbook.....I would like to see him go down field more also, but if he can dink and dunk untill he scores that IMO, is even better....
 
infantrycak said:
Let's see what happens in the regular season.
Click to expand...
This is about the best quote I've seen on this debate. This is preseason ya'll, it don't mean nothin.

I will say this, Carr is getting the push from his backup he never had with Banks or Ragone.
 
Super Mario said:
Good post. But what do you think about the way Carr (IMO) still locks on receivers, and is unwilling to throw the deep ball. I am pretty sure that he threw a total of 1 deep ball to Johnson. Everything is dink and dunk, a 10 yard dump off on 3rd and 15.

I just dont see ANY progress like I thought Kubiak expected. He frustrates me.
Click to expand...

maybe he is just trying tooooooo hard to be and make PERFECT decisions if he trust himself he will be fine.. but im sure coach has told him this already. I think he is going thru his reads toooo fast and sometimes you have to throw it up there and trust your WR s as well. Oh yea and he needs to recognize that the guys in front of him are his lineman not the other teams.
 
Wharton said:
This is about the best quote I've seen on this debate. This is preseason ya'll, it don't mean nothin.

I will say this, Carr is getting the push from his backup he never had with Banks or Ragone.
Click to expand...

I would say thats true for an established team like the Colts...But for the Texans I think it means a lot....We have a new system and if players can't get it in the pre-season what leads you to believe they'll get it in the regular season all of a sudden...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Thats true...But something else to keep in mind is that we haven't been using our whole playbook.....I would like to see him go down field more also, but if he can dink and dunk untill he scores that IMO, is even better....[/QUOTE]

I agree 100%. Even though I'd like to see a deep ball here and there (which I think we will) those little dink and dunk passes get first downs which in turn lead to TDs. IIRC, the WCO is dink and dunk, correct?
Click to expand...
 
Super Mario said:
Good post. But what do you think about the way Carr (IMO) still locks on receivers, and is unwilling to throw the deep ball. I am pretty sure that he threw a total of 1 deep ball to Johnson. Everything is dink and dunk, a 10 yard dump off on 3rd and 15.

I just dont see ANY progress like I thought Kubiak expected. He frustrates me.
Click to expand...

IMO the Carr locking on thing is overstated and has improved some this off-season. Where I see the main problem is a reluctance to pull the trigger on his longer routes. As for dink and dunk, that is in part a WCO thing which does involve a lot of YAC. I have nothing against plays like the 1st of the Denver game--4 yd toss to the RB who takes it for 9 and we have 2nd and 1 but they need to open up the game for some down field throws.

FYI--Carr has attempted three deep balls this off-season--none successful. 1 deep over the middle to AJ against the Rams, tipped by a LB. 1 against the Broncos deep on the left side line where Moulds and Carr were off by a foot and 1 deep left side line to AJ against the Broncos.
 
HOU-TEX said:
I agree 100%. Even though I'd like to see a deep ball here and there (which I think we will) those little dink and dunk passes get first downs which in turn lead to TDs. IIRC, the WCO is dink and dunk, correct?
Click to expand...

Yeah sort of...I would call it more of a short/intermediate pass system though...
 
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