K
kingh99
Guest
Strong armed but not that accurate yet. Was Aikman real accurate in college? Elway. I guess both were bigger.
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carr needs to be traded
- Thread starter Wolf
- Start date
Strong armed but not that accurate yet. Was Aikman real accurate in college? Elway. I guess both were bigger.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I think he was ... thats always been his strong suit .
Mattheus_Rex
Waterboy
Stick with Carr. We're not going to be able to trade for anything better really, so why give up stuff for the same with a different name. There is no quick fix for the team so everyone just has to be patient.
K
kingh99
Guest
Aikman is a good comparison to Chad Henne. I always wanted a traditional team and I guess that makes the Texans not my team since Kubiak wants to control scramble on offense. I think the 93-95 Cowboys were the prototypical pro team especially on offense. Wear you down with the run and bomb with extreme accuracy. From what I've seen of Rosenfelds, he throws intermediate to deep pretty well. I guess I've given up trying to understand what they are seeing.
Carr is a good QB, but he's not clutch. We'll need a dominant defense to protect slim leads, simply because Carr does not appear to be a QB that can seal the deal when the game is on the line.
Last week's 3rd and 2 call is all on Carr and AJ, and our two no. 1 picks just couldn't get it done for a 2 yard pass.
The great QBs don't care what happened earlier in the game. History is irrelevant when a game is on the line. The great ones step up, complete the little pass, and win the game. It is quite obvious at this juncture that Carr is not that kind of QB. So we'll need a dominant defense to seal the deal if he stays our QB, IMO.
Im not a Carr hater or homer. I just call it like I see it. And after last weeks failed 3rd and 2, my eyes are wide open to the reality of the players we have on our team. They are not winners at this point.
Last week's 3rd and 2 call is all on Carr and AJ, and our two no. 1 picks just couldn't get it done for a 2 yard pass.
The great QBs don't care what happened earlier in the game. History is irrelevant when a game is on the line. The great ones step up, complete the little pass, and win the game. It is quite obvious at this juncture that Carr is not that kind of QB. So we'll need a dominant defense to seal the deal if he stays our QB, IMO.
Im not a Carr hater or homer. I just call it like I see it. And after last weeks failed 3rd and 2, my eyes are wide open to the reality of the players we have on our team. They are not winners at this point.
It just drives me crazy when we are 2nd & 16, and our QB throws a 4 yard dump off. Or it's 3rd & 13, and our QB throws a 5 yard out.... It's understandable to take that dump off every now and then, and hope that AJ or Owen makes a play.... they get paid too.. But with the consistency we've seen that, it makes me believe the QB is saying, "Somebody needs to make a play..... & it's not going to be me."
Sure, he breaks contain, and picks up a lot of those on his own, running the ball. & that is fine.... I don't particularly like that kind of play from a QB(he gets paid too much money, and is going to end up getting himself hurt...... I say that whether his name is VinceYoung, David Carr, or Drew Bledsoe)
I do not agree with this thread........ that David Carr needs to be traded.
I do a gree that since we gave him $8 million, we are treating this situation as if the last 4 years did not happen. In that situation, he is progressing fine.
He has not had the benefit to sit on the bench, and learn what works, what doesn't, what he should be seeing, and what he shouldn't try to do like Phillip Rivers has.
He has not had true vets to learn from like Vinny testeverde, or Drew Bledsoe like Tony Romo has.....
He has not had the benefit of not getting sacked 208 times, and hit a countless number more times, like Brad Gradkowski, Vince Young, or Jay Cutler....
at the same time, he has played against real NFL defenses where those guys have not. He should be more familiar with the speed of the game(which he hasn't shown) & the complications of NFL defenses(which he has not shown)
I had hoped that the lightbulb would have gone on in his head 2 or three games ago. Now, I'm thinking it won't happen till next year....... hopefully in the preseason.
Texan Asylum
Hall of Fame
I would say that this is the most accurate assessment of Carr's abilities I've read. I'm a Carr fan, but wonder sometimes if he's the one that'll take us to the next level...where ever that may be.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
So TK I take it your willing to give Carr another year .
I see it as I bought a stock for 30$ its now at 20$ ... it was 10$ last year . Do you say you know I could sell and invest elsewhere and a year from now be up 5$ a share or do I ride it out with the thought that you don't lose until you sell .
I'm ready to get out of the car business figuring with Kubiak a new QB with out the baggage will pay higher dividends .
I see it as I bought a stock for 30$ its now at 20$ ... it was 10$ last year . Do you say you know I could sell and invest elsewhere and a year from now be up 5$ a share or do I ride it out with the thought that you don't lose until you sell .
I'm ready to get out of the car business figuring with Kubiak a new QB with out the baggage will pay higher dividends .
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Its always better to trade a year early as opposed to a year late .
NATHANHALE
Waterboy
There are several things that bother me about the 'entire. Carr situation. First, in 4+ yrs on the field/starting over 60 games, what has Carr done that makes Kubiak believe he is the 'answer?' We know he has seldom used the arm strength that posters give him credit for? We know he does not have a vertical passing game--instead, we know he is a 'dink and dunk' passer his entire career. Sure, one of the WCO main ingredient is short safe passes that produce good YAC but-also-this offense depends on frequent throws down the field.
How many times has Carr 'aired' it out and thrown the ball 60+ yds down the field?...ever?...maybe a couple of times?
We know Carr's 'pocket management' is horrible and contributes greatly to his protection/passing issues. How many times have you seen Carr step up in the pocket to avoid the rush--while looking down field--and find the open receiver...not very often. We know Carr's decision making skills are very weak, as he has a difficult time reading the defense to determine where he should throw the ball--often, he either a) tucks the ball and runs or b) dumps the ball off or c) he throws into 'multiple' coverage. Finally, this year, he is cutting back on sacks that are his fault.
We know Carr has a 'fragile mindset and-for me-this is a bad trait for a QB. Kubiak has simplified his offense to build Carr's confidence by increasing some of his stats but-in Carr's 4+ yrs-no emphasis has been put on scoring points..
JMO, but the Carr
's never talk/give examples of David's play/results on the field on a consistent basis that back their 'claim' he's the .man. Instead, you do 2 things---1) make excuses for Carr or 2) bash posters that don't drink the 'kool-aid.'
Believe me, anyone who has monitored this board for 'just' a week, knows (by heart) all the excuses. One poster (no name) mentions these excuses almost every day--sometimes more than once.
I'm not talking potential here, either--what has Carr done on the field (more than once) that makes you believe he can (along with his team mates) get us to the SB?
How many times has Carr 'aired' it out and thrown the ball 60+ yds down the field?...ever?...maybe a couple of times?
We know Carr's 'pocket management' is horrible and contributes greatly to his protection/passing issues. How many times have you seen Carr step up in the pocket to avoid the rush--while looking down field--and find the open receiver...not very often. We know Carr's decision making skills are very weak, as he has a difficult time reading the defense to determine where he should throw the ball--often, he either a) tucks the ball and runs or b) dumps the ball off or c) he throws into 'multiple' coverage. Finally, this year, he is cutting back on sacks that are his fault.
We know Carr has a 'fragile mindset and-for me-this is a bad trait for a QB. Kubiak has simplified his offense to build Carr's confidence by increasing some of his stats but-in Carr's 4+ yrs-no emphasis has been put on scoring points..
JMO, but the Carr
's never talk/give examples of David's play/results on the field on a consistent basis that back their 'claim' he's the .man. Instead, you do 2 things---1) make excuses for Carr or 2) bash posters that don't drink the 'kool-aid.'Believe me, anyone who has monitored this board for 'just' a week, knows (by heart) all the excuses. One poster (no name) mentions these excuses almost every day--sometimes more than once.
I'm not talking potential here, either--what has Carr done on the field (more than once) that makes you believe he can (along with his team mates) get us to the SB?
WildBlackBear32
Rookie
Are we watching the same player?
Carr's fourth quarter stats...
121 QB rating
6:1 TD:INT Ratio
72% Completion percentage.
Carr when the Texans are ahead or tied...
90.2 QB Rating
5:3 TD:INT Ratio
68.5% completion percentage
The only real gripe I have with him in the clutch is his ability to hold onto the ball.
As I said in my previous post, I'm not talking about stats. Show me CLUTCH plays, where the game is on the line and our QB is required to make the play to win the game or even seal the deal for a win. Anyone watching this season understands that a lot of Carr's 4th qtr. stats are against prevent defenses when we've already been blown out of the game.
I'm talking the difference between the great QBs and merely good QBs: clutch play is what it comes down to. The 3rd and 2 last week is a prime example. If that had been a completed pass - between two number one picks I might add - we would have won the game.
I'm not saying trade Carr or keep Carr. I'm just saying that if we do keep him, then we will need a dominant defense to seal the deal in those close games, because our QB can't make the plays when it counts the most. History speaks for itself, and my take is absolutely void of any emotion towards the guy, good or bad. I just want our football team to win games.
NATHANHALE
Waterboy
...let's expand your 4th qtr stats a little--Carr has thrown 6 tds in the 4th qtr, with 3 against the Colts, meaning he threw only 3 in the other 9 4th qtrs--4 TDs were in garbage time against the Eagles and Colts.
...so, in the first 3 qtrs of our 10 games (30 qtrs), David has thrown 3 tds..
Expectations. Sorry, but yours are too low for me....
New_Texans
Rookie
Who would take his place?
Sage Rosefels....................................you have to be kidding me. Hes not Tony Romo number 2 plus he hasnt sat behind Drew Bledsoe so he cant have the Tomy Brady-Romoitus that infected two other qbs.
I cant stand Carr haters...typical Monday Morning QB and couch patato football watcher fans that dont know what they are watching.
Past 2 games Carr has played well, however play calling was why they lost against the Bills guys not Carr.
Next year this team will be good with Carr not without him. If you say 'i dont want to wait til next year' then you need to stop watching sports all together.
Sage Rosefels....................................you have to be kidding me. Hes not Tony Romo number 2 plus he hasnt sat behind Drew Bledsoe so he cant have the Tomy Brady-Romoitus that infected two other qbs.
I cant stand Carr haters...typical Monday Morning QB and couch patato football watcher fans that dont know what they are watching.
Past 2 games Carr has played well, however play calling was why they lost against the Bills guys not Carr.
Next year this team will be good with Carr not without him. If you say 'i dont want to wait til next year' then you need to stop watching sports all together.
Goldeagle
Veteran
Probably a minority of people blame Carr for every loss, they make Houston fan look like fools.
I agree...
NO..... not at all. I've come to realize this is the path Kubiak has chosen.
If I were making the calls, I wouldn't invest the time, much less the money.
But I'm not making the decision, so let's hope for the best.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
My feeling is Kubiak took an average guy in Plummer ( who had a history of bringing his team back at ASU and taking to many risk in Arizona ) and making him into a borderline pro-bowler . Jake the Snake has always been a gamer and thats what gets him into trouble ... Brett Favre without the arm . Kubiak leaves and Jake crumbles , maybe Kubiak is that good .
I feel that if you let Kubiak hand pick his guy he can make into a great QB . I feel McNair wanted Carr to be part of the package and thats going to haunt us for years . Unless of course Troy Smith drops into the 2nd rd cause he's short and we pick him .
How many times has Carr 'aired' it out and thrown the ball 60+ yds down the field?...ever?...maybe a couple of times?
IN all fairness, a 60+ yard pass is extremely rare and I doubt I've ever seen one.
If you've got a fast reciever, he can run 40 yards in a little more than 4 seconds. It would take him 5 to 6 seconds to get down the field. That rarely happens..... even the worse pass rush do not allow 5 seconds for a play to develope.
There are plenty of plays that have gone 60+ yards... usually, the QB throws a ball 15 to 20 yards in the air. Because there is no one in front of the reciever, the play turns into a 60+ yard play(or an 83 yard TD( or two)).
you saw the two big DanteStallworth plays in the Philly game?? our recievers rarely get that wide open. There was the AJ touchdown on our first drive of the 'Skins game.....
But the two LeeEvans TDs...... our recievers are in that situation often, but David hasn't shown the ability to put the ball where it needs to be. Had he been the Buffalo QB, that ball would have hit Faggins in the back of the helmet. As seen on the plays when Molds & AJ were in the same position in that game...... or in the Washington Game, where David underthrew AJ twice, for what would have been sure touchdowns, or when he underthrew Walter..... I believe it was that same game...... in the endzone, and the ball was picked off.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
I knew this was coming. Just can't believe this is you Earl ? This is the wife right ?
Who was the last 6' or under QB to win a conference championship ? It ain't Flutie. Gonna have to go back aways there Earl's wife.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Well my partner you just my well get your wish. Don't be a stranger when he crashes and burns. And a lot of aren't tired of Carr, we're tired of the Carr bashing. The highest round this organsation picked an o-lineman is the third with Pitts, Wand, Spencer and Winston. Spencer and Winston should be out of the equation because they are rooks. Wand was a total bust. I believe Winston was supposed to sit and watch and learn this year. I do not know this for a fact but that is what I believe. And Wand is the the bell cow on why it is not better to go tramping for o-lineman late in the draft.
Someone had all the bust and near misses this organazation has had on the o-line the last five years. It is a very long list. And that is the problem. Makes you happy to bash Carr go right ahead and help yourself. But ask yourself this one question, in five years, which o-lineman for the club went to the probowl ? Was an all pro ? You wanna be lazy and be blissfully ignorant, fine by me. The improvement behind this line under these circumstances tells me Carr will be back next year. McNair is not going to admit defeat untill someone shovels dirt in Carr's face. After the '08 season, he probably bite the bullet and eat the contract. MHO is not befor then. My book says the oods of Carr surviving the rest of the season behind this group of o-lineman is not very good. Big difference in 8 and sixteen million. Carr gets reamed real good, McNair could buy him out. Then everyone can be happy again. If there is any justice in the world I hope you get to live life under Jake the Snake. I could stand the season...not to sure you're going to enjoy it though.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I'm not such a big Smith fan nearly as much as I see the possibility of it happening ( dropping cause of height ) . Having said that there is some allure to what I feel is the QB for the best team .
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Tom Brady... Kurt Warner... Damon Huard... Tony Romo...
Who needs to waste a high draft pick on a QB?
TROY SMITH? Please.... I hope that you are joking.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
You want to bet ... I say Troy is gone in the first round .
Bill Parcells has not drafted an Olineman high in the draft since he became the Cowboys Head Coach...... '03. None of the Olinemen he drafted are still on the team.... So it could be possible, that there haven't been any good OLinemen in the drafts since '03....... (I say this, because Bill usually does good in the draft).
Not one Cowboys OLineman will go to the probowl this year. They had given up more sacks than the Texans in the first 6 weeks of the season. At that time, there would be no argument that their Offensive line was worse than ours. But since they changed QBs...... they are now outperforming our line.
bigbrewster2000
Veteran
This is worth repeating.
Wow, I don't know why but it amazes me that we have to continue reading the same posts in the same threads 7 days a week for the last 5 years. Everyone rehashes the exact same comments from a similar thread. Don't you guys ever get tired of the same old banter......dang it I already answered my question. And whether all here like it or not Kubiak is going to stick with Carr. He apparently likes what he is seeing for the most part. Lets all look back to Kubiaks very first Presser when he said that this team had a long way to go. Personally, I don't care if everyone here is tired of hearing about patience, and that this is our 5th year and blah blah blah. The reality is that we were 2-14 last year for a reason. WE STUNK something fierce. This year we still stink, and next year we may just smell like we havent taken a bath that morning. But when it comes down to it, the team and David are better, and I see promise ut our coaching staff is new and they need more than 10 games or 1 season or even 2 seasons to get the personel that they need to make this team a winner. So I am not going to say anything esle except everyone needs to swallow the realistic pill and watch the coaching staff either make this team better or fall on their faces (again) over the next few seasons.
Wow, I don't know why but it amazes me that we have to continue reading the same posts in the same threads 7 days a week for the last 5 years. Everyone rehashes the exact same comments from a similar thread. Don't you guys ever get tired of the same old banter......dang it I already answered my question. And whether all here like it or not Kubiak is going to stick with Carr. He apparently likes what he is seeing for the most part. Lets all look back to Kubiaks very first Presser when he said that this team had a long way to go. Personally, I don't care if everyone here is tired of hearing about patience, and that this is our 5th year and blah blah blah. The reality is that we were 2-14 last year for a reason. WE STUNK something fierce. This year we still stink, and next year we may just smell like we havent taken a bath that morning. But when it comes down to it, the team and David are better, and I see promise ut our coaching staff is new and they need more than 10 games or 1 season or even 2 seasons to get the personel that they need to make this team a winner. So I am not going to say anything esle except everyone needs to swallow the realistic pill and watch the coaching staff either make this team better or fall on their faces (again) over the next few seasons.
Unfortunately, the organization has given the fan base little else to talk about.
bigbrewster2000
Veteran
Well you should comment on the entire post because it all goes together. That is another problem on this site, you read or see what you want and forget about the rest of the facts.
There are no facts in your post just an opinion that we should be a good little Texans' fans and hurry-up and wait some more.
sleepwalker
Waterboy
We need to trade you.
Wolf
100% Texan
you obviously are new here
Ibar_Harry
All Pro
Yes, I like Carr, but I would like to point out a couple of facts that people seem to be totaly oblivious to.
1) Carr is throwing short passes per Kubiak. That is the nature of Kubiak's offense. It has nothing to do with Carr's arm strength. Carr is throwing passes short of the receivers per Kubiak. He is taught to under throw, not over throw the receiver.
2) On the 3rd and 2 we now know that AJ was having injury problems. That has become apparent during the week and probably is part of what happened. Remember, its all about timing and where you are suppose to be. May be he couldn't shake his defender simply because he was no where near the 100% we thought. May be the defender wasn't as good as we thought.
For years I have been saying Carr has been doing exactly what he was taught and requested to do. He has been the company man and if you can't listen to what Kubiak says then continue to blow smoke. Does Carr have some bad habits, I'm certain he does. However, if you listen to Kubiak and reflect back to the 1st game Carr played as a Texan, you might see there has been a lot of regression. Why, you might say, because of how and what he was taught to do.
Finally, I noticed how Harrington - booed out of Detroit - returned the favor to Detroit. Is there something to be said about being on the wrong team at the wrong time. I think some of you might be very surprised at how well Carr would do in another situation. Oh, and by the way, I think Trent and David are business partners too.
1) Carr is throwing short passes per Kubiak. That is the nature of Kubiak's offense. It has nothing to do with Carr's arm strength. Carr is throwing passes short of the receivers per Kubiak. He is taught to under throw, not over throw the receiver.
2) On the 3rd and 2 we now know that AJ was having injury problems. That has become apparent during the week and probably is part of what happened. Remember, its all about timing and where you are suppose to be. May be he couldn't shake his defender simply because he was no where near the 100% we thought. May be the defender wasn't as good as we thought.
For years I have been saying Carr has been doing exactly what he was taught and requested to do. He has been the company man and if you can't listen to what Kubiak says then continue to blow smoke. Does Carr have some bad habits, I'm certain he does. However, if you listen to Kubiak and reflect back to the 1st game Carr played as a Texan, you might see there has been a lot of regression. Why, you might say, because of how and what he was taught to do.
Finally, I noticed how Harrington - booed out of Detroit - returned the favor to Detroit. Is there something to be said about being on the wrong team at the wrong time. I think some of you might be very surprised at how well Carr would do in another situation. Oh, and by the way, I think Trent and David are business partners too.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
David Carr threads can cause damage to your brain and other semi-vital organs.
FYI, this is what yankee media is saying about Carr (with comparison quotes from Jets players):
Link: Hartford Currant
FYI, this is what yankee media is saying about Carr (with comparison quotes from Jets players):
Link: Hartford Currant
bigbrewster2000
Veteran
No, again you are wrong and you read and say what you want because it says moderator under your picture. We were IN FACT 2-14 last year and we did IN FACT stink fiercely. And Kubiak in his very first presser said IN FACT that it would take time to turn this team aroud. So whether you want to choose to pay attention or not that this team was and still is IN FACT void of some talent is your perogative.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Arlington Texan is one of the best posters this board has known ... if its his opinion its usually right .
Trade? How about released? No one will give anything for this guy. Man, he sucks.
I agree.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I like old guys like you .
AustinTexansFan
Practice Squad
Dear Coach, Please trade Carr and get rid of your problem. You can lead a horse to water but you CANNOT make him drink.
First off there is already a thread about this why did you have to make a new one.
Second.
Carr and Kubes cant make the WR catch the ball either.
Or make the oline run block.
Or make the RB's break a tackle.
Or make our Defensive backs catch the ball.
All of this blameing everything on one person who ever its just stupid.
Seeing as how the only way we can move the ball in this game is by David Carr Running and throwing it. Ya we should definetly trade him. ok that makes sense.
I guess I can explain to you why your wrong but that doesnt mean you will understand it right.
Second.
Carr and Kubes cant make the WR catch the ball either.
Or make the oline run block.
Or make the RB's break a tackle.
Or make our Defensive backs catch the ball.
All of this blameing everything on one person who ever its just stupid.
Seeing as how the only way we can move the ball in this game is by David Carr Running and throwing it. Ya we should definetly trade him. ok that makes sense.
I guess I can explain to you why your wrong but that doesnt mean you will understand it right.
AustinTexansFan
Practice Squad
Checkdowns is all I can say.
brewhaus
Rookie
Looks like they can't coach any of those things they can't make anyone do either.
Seriously, the only thing moderator means is that I get to delete posts that contain bad words in them. Those "facts" you post are only to support you real point (which is an opinion) that Texans fans need to fold thier hands and continue to be patient. Your original post and real point are not anything unique in that it has been said 100 different times in 100 different ways. I got your point, the first time.
edo783
Hall of Fame
Ever ask your self why? (don't give me that stat building crap, that is totally stupid) Might want to check how many guys are kept in to block on passing downs. Usually at least one and a great many times 2 extra guys to bock with. That means that the most we send down field is 2-3 guys. The defense then has 5-6 guys to cover 2-3 guys. Might be a tad hard to get open with that situation and hence the dump offs. The announcers even commented on the fact that no one is open down field and that is why the dumps. It would be nice to chuck it long and we do on occassion, but have you notice, the guy is alway double covered? That's because we have the guys back protecting, so the best chance we have is to sometimes chuck it up and pretty much hope that AJ can out jump/mucle the DB just to try and keep the DBs back a bit. The end result is that we have the coaches calling a game that fits what the defense is giving us, because the O-line isn't up to snuff. Not even close.