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Brian Gaine Thread

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steelbtexan said:
I've never said I think he's going to bust. We should know more by yr 2.

What I said was who do you think is going to have the better career, Howard or Dillard and wanting everybody on the record. That's a far cry from calling Howard a bust. What I dont want is for guys to make excuses IF Howard busts. This is Devlin's handpicked guy and believe me when I tell you I hope Howard is a 10 yr all pro.
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Well lets clarify something before you keep asking everyone to go on the record. What makes a better career? Is it times picked for all pro, superbowl wins, top 5 ranking? What qualifiers are we using here? A guy can be a great player and never have a team around him that could do anything, Dan Marino, or be an average player but have a great team that can win any game, Trent Brown. So what do you consider a better career? And don't say "If Watson doesn't get sacked" because it takes more than one guy, no matter how good, to stop that.

Edit: Also where are you getting this idea that anyone is going to make excuses for Devlin? The one consistent thing I have seen from people on both sides of the "BoB sucks" debate is everyone saying that Devlin sucks.
 
JB said:
Yet it seems as if your mind is already made up that they made a bad decision, And Devlin ( I think he shoulda been gone also) doesn't and didn't operate in a vacuum
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This is where you're wrong, my mind isn't already made up.

It's up to Devlin to coach up the rawest of rookie OL. You feel comfortable with this? Avg athlete, from a small school with a sh!tty OL coach, whatever could go wrong? This doesn't mean my mind is made up, it's just the the odds are against Howard from the jump.

If Howard is able to overcome these odds more power to him.
 
maverick512000 said:
Well lets clarify something before you keep asking everyone to go on the record. What makes a better career? Is it times picked for all pro, superbowl wins, top 5 ranking? What qualifiers are we using here? A guy can be a great player and never have a team around him that could do anything, Dan Marino, or be an average player but have a great team that can win any game, Trent Brown. So what do you consider a better career? And don't say "If Watson doesn't get sacked" because it takes more than one guy, no matter how good, to stop that.

Edit: Also where are you getting this idea that anyone is going to make excuses for Devlin? The one consistent thing I have seen from people on both sides of the "BoB sucks" debate is everyone saying that Devlin sucks.
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How about a Duane Brown type career, or a Jake Matthews type career and if you're really lucky a Walter Jones/Pace/Ogden type career.
 
steelbtexan said:
How about a Duane Brown type career, or a Jake Matthews type career and if you're really lucky a Walter Jones/Pace/Ogden type career.
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How about you give actual answers instead of just naming players. Are you expecting him to be an all pro his first year, second, third? Should he be on a superbowl winning team? But you know what lets take your example, by those examples Trent Brown, who you were so high on, is a bust as he was drafted in 2015 and he's never even been an all pro. In fact his only career highlight of note was winning with the Pats.

So again I ask what are we judging it by? Don't know about you but when I sit down at the table I like to know the rules of the game before I throw my chips in. Otherwise you may think your playing Texas Hold'em and then before you know it your playing Omaha.
 
maverick512000 said:
How about you give actual answers instead of just naming players. Are you expecting him to be an all pro his first year, second, third? Should he be on a superbowl winning team? But you know what lets take your example, by those examples Trent Brown, who you were so high on, is a bust as he was drafted in 2015 and he's never even been an all pro. In fact his only career highlight of note was winning with the Pats.

So again I ask what are we judging it by? Don't know about you but when I sit down at the table I like to know the rules of the game before I throw my chips in. Otherwise you may think your playing Texas Hold'em and then before you know it your playing Omaha.
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A Duane Brown type career is what I would consider to be a successful career. One of the better OT's in the league. I dont know how to be more plain than that. Doesn't have to be a SB winner or multiple time pro bowler although making a pro bowl or 2 would be nice. Just a solid 10 yr starter.

What are your expectations of Howard's career? BTW, why are you being disingenuous? You know exactly what I meant and if you dont go back and look at some film of the guys I listed so you can see for yourself what my expectations are.
 
steelbtexan said:
A Duane Brown type career is what I would consider to be a successful career. One of the better OT's in the league. I dont know how to be more plain than that. Doesn't have to be a SB winner or multiple time pro bowler although making a pro bowl or 2 would be nice. Just a solid 10 yr starter.

What are your expectations of Howard's career? BTW, why are you being disingenuous? You know exactly what I meant and if you dont go back and look at some film of the guys I listed so you can see for yourself what my expectations are.
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Ok by those qualifiers yes, barring injury, yes I think Howard will have a solid career. Also I'm not disingenuous, you are asking people to go on the record as to who will be better but not how we determine better. That makes it super easy to move the goal posts. Hell if there are no real qualifiers then we can already say Dillard has the better career because Eagles moved up to get him or Howard has the better career because he was drafted round 1 from a small school. I just want to make sure that there are no :uprights:
 
maverick512000 said:
Ok by those qualifiers yes, barring injury, yes I think Howard will have a solid career. Also I'm not disingenuous, you are asking people to go on the record as to who will be better but not how we determine better. That makes it super easy to move the goal posts. Hell if there are no real qualifiers then we can already say Dillard has the better career because Eagles moved up to get him or Howard has the better career because he was drafted round 1 from a small school. I just want to make sure that there are no :uprights:
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Unless it's completely obvious, measuring a "better career" is almost impossible. Completely obvious is one player is out of the league after 3 years (not due to injury), while the other has made 3 consecutive All-Pro teams.

By Dillard going to the Eagles, instead of the Texans, already gives him a huge advantage. He's joining a proven OL with many proven vets to learn from.

If Howard is our starting LT for 10+ years, I consider this pick a success, regardless of how well Dillard does.
 
IDEXAN said:
C'mon that's of course a QB and they are in a special category, a category of their very own.
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I don't disagree. I guess my point more is that I actually consider it a bad thing if you HAVE to start your newly drafted rookie, round one or otherwise, day one because you have nothing else. If they win the job because they are just that good then yeah make'em the starter but that's not what we are talking about here and that's not the position Texans are in. Making the change from college level to NFL level is tough for any player at any position. If expectations are tempered and the starting rookie is not expected to be an all pro or even have a great season till they at least get their feet under them than fair enough but I get the feeling from some on this board that unless Howard is an all pro his first year then he's a bust.
 
maverick512000 said:
I don't disagree. I guess my point more is that I actually consider it a bad thing if you HAVE to start your newly drafted rookie, round one or otherwise, day one because you have nothing else. If they win the job because they are just that good then yeah make'em the starter but that's not what we are talking about here and that's not the position Texans are in. Making the change from college level to NFL level is tough for any player at any position. If expectations are tempered and the starting rookie is not expected to be an all pro or even have a great season till they at least get their feet under them than fair enough but I get the feeling from some on this board that unless Howard is an all pro his first year then he's a bust.
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By definiiton the first round pick is the biggest investment in the Draft so should expect that biggest imvestment to start yielding returns and paying off immediately because of the cost.
There's a reason 2019 Draft picks are more valuable than 2020 Draft picks, etc.
 
IDEXAN said:
By definiiton the first round pick is the biggest investment in the Draft so should expect that biggest imvestment to start yielding returns and paying off immediately because of the cost.
There's a reason 2019 Draft picks are more valuable than 2020 Draft picks, etc.
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Can't disagree more; that's a serious example of way over the top overstatement and faulty logic. This can't be looked at in terms of immediate business return.

A first rounder (especially an OLineman) must be evaluated by much more than immediate first game return. If it takes a bit for him to get his feet under him and then he begins bringing good results and finally brings long term top drawer results, that's pretty good in my book and I'll be happy.

I'm going to speculate that someone who evaluates first rounders by their immediate contribution might have been in a business career that demanded instant results. It brings to mind the saying that To a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
 
I think it’s also because for so long now the Oline has been so bad that people are tired of being patient and giving new players the benefit of the doubt. If Watson had not been able to step on the field and look like Aaron Rogers many would have been calling him a bust simply because our QB sistuation had been so bad it would have been seen as more of the same.

The difference between fans and players, fans view a franchise as a whole and look at everything and say it’s not working. Players can only look at their time on a team and judge based on that.
 
maverick512000 said:
I don't disagree. I guess my point more is that I actually consider it a bad thing if you HAVE to start your newly drafted rookie, round one or otherwise, day one because you have nothing else. If they win the job because they are just that good then yeah make'em the starter but that's not what we are talking about here and that's not the position Texans are in. Making the change from college level to NFL level is tough for any player at any position. If expectations are tempered and the starting rookie is not expected to be an all pro or even have a great season till they at least get their feet under them than fair enough but I get the feeling from some on this board that unless Howard is an all pro his first year then he's a bust.
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Good news is it wont take much for Howard/Scharping to be better than Davenport.
 
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IDEXAN said:
There's a reason 2019 Draft picks are more valuable than 2020 Draft picks, etc.
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Well, that is true of 4th round picks... and 7th round picks as well. That is not a coherent argument for a 1st round pick needing to start immediately to have value. I find this entire argument attempting to define the value of the Howard pick to be entirely off-point. Who cares whether or not Howard is a starter as a rookie? If the Texans offensive line is effective... and if the Texans win this year, are we really going to fight about this? If the Texans win the Superbowl this year while Howard rides the bench, are any of you really going to argue in 2035 that a retiring 5x probowl player at LT was a bad pick because he didn't play as a rookie?

I understand the frustrations, I think, at the root of all of this. Many fans are very concerned about the state of the offensive line, were not encouraged by moves made during free agency, and therefore were hoping the Texans would do something to ease those concerns during the draft and predetermined what that something would be (Dillard). Okay. Instead of fighting about how much Howard needs to play as a rookie, why don't we wait until September/October to assess how well/poorly the Texans addressed the offensive line issue? Until then, skepticism seems appropriate but no need for straw men.
 
dalemurphy said:
Well, that is true of 4th round picks... and 7th round picks as well. That is not a coherent argument for a 1st round pick needing to start immediately to have value. I find this entire argument attempting to define the value of the Howard pick to be entirely off-point. Who cares whether or not Howard is a starter as a rookie? If the Texans offensive line is effective... and if the Texans win this year, are we really going to fight about this? If the Texans win the Superbowl this year while Howard rides the bench, are any of you really going to argue in 2035 that a retiring 5x probowl player at LT was a bad pick because he didn't play as a rookie?

I understand the frustrations, I think, at the root of all of this. Many fans are very concerned about the state of the offensive line, were not encouraged by moves made during free agency, and therefore were hoping the Texans would do something to ease those concerns during the draft and predetermined what that something would be (Dillard). Okay. Instead of fighting about how much Howard needs to play as a rookie, why don't we wait until September/October to assess how well/poorly the Texans addressed the offensive line issue? Until then, skepticism seems appropriate but no need for straw men.
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2nd round, 3rd round, etc aren't as valuable as first round picks. I mentioned 101 finance earlier, well there's another financial term here and it's called opportunity cost or put in laymens terms: a team misses a great opportunity to improve their team if they fail to pick a firsrt ronder who's not immediately productive because first round picks of course have the greatest success rate of any round.
I'm not fighting with anybody about it, just discussing it and explaining my viewpoints.
 
steelbtexan said:
I see we're already making excuses IF Howard fails.

Great job.

This is Devlin's handpicked guy, IF Howard fails there are no excuses and everybody should be fired. That's how much that SHOULD be riding on the Howard pick.
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steelbtexan said:
This is where you're wrong, my mind isn't already made up.

It's up to Devlin to coach up the rawest of rookie OL. You feel comfortable with this? Avg athlete, from a small school with a sh!tty OL coach, whatever could go wrong? This doesn't mean my mind is made up, it's just the the odds are against Howard from the jump.

If Howard is able to overcome these odds more power to him.
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You are validating my point regarding Devlin as the wildcard. What OL player do you feel has elevated their game under Devlin? IMO the OL coach has to be the lead in the development of the player from college to the NFL. The player's initiative, desire or drive utilizes the coaching for continuous improvement. If the player doesn't, he should be gone. So far its looks like the common denominator is Devlin and according to you the last 2 earliest picks at OT have been handpicked by Devlin (Davenport and Howard).
 
KoolAid Sipper said:
You are validating my point regarding Devlin as the wildcard. What OL player do you feel has elevated their game under Devlin? IMO the OL coach has to be the lead in the development of the player from college to the NFL. The player's initiative, desire or drive utilizes the coaching for continuous improvement. If the player doesn't, he should be gone. So far its looks like the common denominator is Devlin and according to you the last 2 earliest picks at OT have been handpicked by Devlin (Davenport and Howard).
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Yep

In short I don't trust Devlin to develop Howard/Scharping/Rankin.

This lack of trust has been well earned.
 
HaveMercy said:
No question that Devlin needs to elevate his game.
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Like I said, these are his handpicked guys, if thing's don't go well then there should be no excuses. I'm sure there will be.

I'm willing to give the OL 8-10 games to help. Just like with the Colts OL last year.
 
IDEXAN said:
2nd round, 3rd round, etc aren't as valuable as first round picks. I mentioned 101 finance earlier, well there's another financial term here and it's called opportunity cost or put in laymens terms: a team misses a great opportunity to improve their team if they fail to pick a firsrt ronder who's not immediately productive because first round picks of course have the greatest success rate of any round.
I'm not fighting with anybody about it, just discussing it and explaining my viewpoints.
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by your standard:

Blake Bortles, Eric Fisher, Robert Griffin, Trent Richardson, Michael Floyd, Mark Barron, Greg Robinson, D. Heyward-Bay, Aldon Smith

are better picks than:

Patrik Mahomes, J. Pierre-Paul, Joe Haden, Demarcus Lawerance, Dee Ford, Jaylon Smith, Andre Smith....
 
dalemurphy said:
by your standard:

Blake Bortles, Eric Fisher, Robert Griffin, Trent Richardson, Michael Floyd, Mark Barron, Greg Robinson, D. Heyward-Bay, Aldon Smith

are better picks than:

Patrik Mahomes, J. Pierre-Paul, Joe Haden, Demarcus Lawerance, Dee Ford, Jaylon Smith, Andre Smith....
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There are always exceptions to the rules. Dude is correct when it comes to first rounders contributcon early. Every team expects that from their 1st round picks.
 
Can't say much about Gaine after 2 drafts but it can't be much worse than his predecessor.

Grading Rick Smith's last 4 drafts as GM...

Day-1 (1st Round)
I count him hitting on 3/4 (75%) of his 1st round picks. Clowney is a bit disappointing as a pass rusher but is one of the best edge defenders in the league. Fuller is a field stretching weapon, but has struggled with injuries. Watson is the franchise QB. Johnson was a straight up bust.

Day-2 (Rounds 2-3)
I count him hitting on 2/8 (25%) of his day-2 picks (McKinney, Cunningham). I count Foreman as still up for debate so don't count him. Misses include Fiedorowicz (decent player but injuries) and Martin (decent player but subpar production from a 2nd rounder). Busts include Su'a-Filo, Nix, Strong, Miller. Of 9 day-2 picks only McKinney, Martin, Cunningham, and Foreman are still with the team.

Day-3 (Rounds 4-7)
I count him hitting on 4/16 (25%) of his day-3 picks (Hal, Blue, Covington, Reader). I count Davenport as still up for debate so don't count him. Guys like Prosch, Mumphery, and Dillon all played a bit but didn't stick. Of 17 day-3 picks only Davenport, Reader, and Watkins are still with the team.


No wonder this team has no depth. This guy only hit on 25% of his picks after the 1st round and only 10 of his 30 picks (30%) are still with the team.
 
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WolverineFan said:
Can't say much about about Gaine after 2 drafts but it can't be much worse than his predecessor.

Grading Rick Smith's last 4 drafts as GM...

Day-1 (1st Round)
I count him hitting on 3/4 (75%) of his 1st round picks. Clowney is a bit disappointing as a pass rusher but is one of the best edge defenders in the league. Fuller is a field stretching weapon, but has struggled with injuries. Watson is the franchise QB. Johnson was a straight up bust.

Day-2 (Rounds 2-3)
I count him hitting on 2/8 (25%) of his day-2 picks (McKinney, Cunningham). I count Foreman as still up for debate so don't count him. Misses include Fiedorowicz (decent player but injuries) and Martin (decent player but subpar production from a 2nd rounder). Busts include Su'a-Filo, Nix, Strong, Miller. Of 9 day-2 picks only McKinney, Martin, Cunningham, and Foreman are still with the team.

Day-3 (Rounds 4-7)
I count him hitting on 4/16 (25%) of his day-3 picks (Hal, Blue, Covington, Reader). I count Davenport as still up for debate so don't count him. Guys like Prosch, Mumphery, and Dillon all played a bit but didn't stick. Of 17 day-3 picks only Davenport, Reader, and Watkins are still with the team.


No wonder this team has no depth. This guy only hit on 25% of his picks after the 1st round and only 10 of his 30 picks (30%) are still with the team.
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The sad part is that just about any real fan of the NFL (not named Matt Millen) can hit 75% of the time in the 1st round, especially the top 16. The true test of an evaluator's talent is in the middle rounds, where you build your depth and special teams. An ironic strength of Smith was his ability to find decent street FAs during the season.
 
IDEXAN said:
2nd round, 3rd round, etc aren't as valuable as first round picks. I mentioned 101 finance earlier, well there's another financial term here and it's called opportunity cost or put in laymens terms: a team misses a great opportunity to improve their team if they fail to pick a firsrt ronder who's not immediately productive because first round picks of course have the greatest success rate of any round.
I'm not fighting with anybody about it, just discussing it and explaining my viewpoints.
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It's like I wrote earlier. To a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Football isn't economics, football isn't finance, but those are the parallels you're making. Different principles altogether. To state the obvious, in football the end is more important than the beginning. If we're getting better week by week and the first round pick takes a few weeks to get going, most of us will be happy.
 
Texansballer74 said:
That mainly for the QB but for every other positions, they expect them to start or contribute right away.
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Ok let’s clarify something. When we say starter do we actually mean just someone that will start or do we mean someone that will not only start but completely shine in the position. If it the former then yeah round one should be able to start but if it’s the latter then those are unrealistic expectations. Some can do it, Watson for example, but those are exceptions not the rule and is based in large part by position. QB for example don’t have to bulk up like many college to pro linemen do.

I think when many on here say starter they are expecting almost all pro level production.
 
DocBar said:
The sad part is that just about any real fan of the NFL (not named Matt Millen) can hit 75% of the time in the 1st round, especially the top 16. The true test of an evaluator's talent is in the middle rounds, where you build your depth and special teams. An ironic strength of Smith was his ability to find decent street FAs during the season.
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Then NFL fans are better than every team in the NFL at picking. The fact is only 53% of first rounders actually successful.

https://theriotreport.com/scout-camp-2018-about-the-author/

(Thanks CnD for first posting this, couldn’t find the post but I remembered it so went and found the article myself)

So as far as first rounds go 75% is extremely good and was one of the reasons Smith kept being ranked as a top 10 GM. Later rounds I won’t argue that he missed a lot of those but if we are saying that first round is the most important then he was very good there.
 
dalemurphy said:
that simply isn't true. some guys, for various reasons, need time first: Dee Ford, Jaylon Smith, JPP, Demarcus Lawrence, Joe Haden, and plenty of others.
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How is that not true? Didn't Hopkins start on day one. Johnson started day one. Elliott started day one. And I can on and on and one. Again there are some exceptions to that rule. And I've stated way earlier that rounds 1-3 teams hope these players will contribute either right away or some time during that season.
 
maverick512000 said:
Ok let’s clarify something. When we say starter do we actually mean just someone that will start or do we mean someone that will not only start but completely shine in the position. If it the former then yeah round one should be able to start but if it’s the latter then those are unrealistic expectations. Some can do it, Watson for example, but those are exceptions not the rule and is based in large part by position. QB for example don’t have to bulk up like many college to pro linemen do.

I think when many on here say starter they are expecting almost all pro level production.
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Not shine but contribute. But if they do shine, that would be icing on the cake.
 
Texansballer74 said:
How is that not true? Didn't Hopkins start on day one. Johnson started day one. Elliott started day one. And I can on and on and one. Again there are some exceptions to that rule. And I've stated way earlier that rounds 1-3 teams hope these players will contribute either right away or some time during that season.
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philosophically, depending on the team, the particular draft, the specific needs of the team, the unique qualities of the available talent all inform the draft pick... and it is not rare for a team to take a player high in the draft with an expectation that they may have to wait on him for a year or two to make a significant impact. Frequently, the better organizations in the league, make 1st round picks without expecting them to start.
 
WolverineFan said:
Can't say much about about Gaine after 2 drafts but it can't be much worse than his predecessor.

Grading Rick Smith's last 4 drafts as GM...

Day-1 (1st Round)
I count him hitting on 3/4 (75%) of his 1st round picks. Clowney is a bit disappointing as a pass rusher but is one of the best edge defenders in the league. Fuller is a field stretching weapon, but has struggled with injuries. Watson is the franchise QB. Johnson was a straight up bust.

Day-2 (Rounds 2-3)
I count him hitting on 2/8 (25%) of his day-2 picks (McKinney, Cunningham). I count Foreman as still up for debate so don't count him. Misses include Fiedorowicz (decent player but injuries) and Martin (decent player but subpar production from a 2nd rounder). Busts include Su'a-Filo, Nix, Strong, Miller. Of 9 day-2 picks only McKinney, Martin, Cunningham, and Foreman are still with the team.

Day-3 (Rounds 4-7)
I count him hitting on 4/16 (25%) of his day-3 picks (Hal, Blue, Covington, Reader). I count Davenport as still up for debate so don't count him. Guys like Prosch, Mumphery, and Dillon all played a bit but didn't stick. Of 17 day-3 picks only Davenport, Reader, and Watkins are still with the team.


No wonder this team has no depth. This guy only hit on 25% of his picks after the 1st round and only 10 of his 30 picks (30%) are still with the team.
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By the numbers why this is a 3 yr rebuild. The only question is how did the former GM manage to keep his job for so long? My guess is the way he structured contracts and signed players like Cushing/Watt/Schaub saved the McNair's alot of $$$$.

Gaine is the guy who found the UDFA's for the former GM.
 
dalemurphy said:
Frequently, the better organizations in the league, make 1st round picks without expecting them to start.
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The better organizations are also usually drafting later. In 2018, 20 of the top 21 draft picks started the majority of their games. 11 of thos 21 started every game they played in. Only 3 of the last 11 in the 1st round started the majority of their games.

Number of starters per round:
2nd - 13
3rd - 11
4th - 4
5th - 3
6th - 1 (Jordan Thomas!)
7th - Zero
 
dalemurphy said:
Correct... and where did the Texans' 1st round pick fall?
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My point was that NFL ready talent diminishes as the draft moves along. The non QBs in the top 10 would start for the majority of teams, good or bad. And Howard not starting on the Texans has more to do with his readiness for the NFL than how great an organization the Texans have.
 
Lucky said:
My point was that NFL ready talent diminishes as the draft moves along. The non QBs in the top 10 would start for the majority of teams, good or bad. And Howard not starting on the Texans has more to do with his readiness for the NFL than how great an organization the Texans have.
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I do agree that most of the top 10 would be starters if for no other reason that you sometimes have to play the money. If Howard isn't a starter though there is another factor in regards to the Texans at this particular time and that's Kalil. Given the one year deal they signed with him it could be they want to get what mileage out of him they can.

The contract is built in such a way that he has to be an active part of the roster to get the lions share of the money so it could be their thinking is, play Kalil as long as we can, if he goes down put Howard in but if he lasts deep into the season then Howard has extra time to adjust and learn behind a vet. Depending on how far into the season they think Kalil can go it makes sense that they wouldn't have the same feeling of "We need to draft someone that can be LT on game one."
 
dalemurphy said:
Correct... and where did the Texans' 1st round pick fall?
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Lucky said:
My point was that NFL ready talent diminishes as the draft moves along. The non QBs in the top 10 would start for the majority of teams, good or bad. And Howard not starting on the Texans has more to do with his readiness for the NFL than how great an organization the Texans have.
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Right... and teams that pick later (21 other teams have all passed on the talent at 22) may make a decision to take a player left with a high ceiling, who's still on the board, because he may not be a plug and play guy.

As each pick ticks off the board, essentially, the next player is either higher risk or lower ceiling... given that teams picking in the first round have 5 affordable years of team control, I want them to take guys with high ceilings whenever they confidence in that individual rather than going after what they perceive to be a lesser player down the road but one that is NFL ready. I want my GM to have a big picture and not fixated on plugging holes in a dam during the draft.
 
2019 NFL GM Offseason Report Cards

Houston Texans general manager Brian Gaine had one overriding mission in the 2019 offseason—fix an offensive line that allowed a league-high 62 sacks in 2018.

He failed.

Yes, the Texans made an addition in free agency. But after whiffing on the big names at tackle, they settled on Matt Kalil, a first-round bust who missed the entire 2018 campaign with a knee injury.

They made additions in the draft as well, but they missed out on Washington State’s Andre Dillard by a single pick. So instead the selection was Tytus Howard, a talented but raw prospect who played at tiny Alabama State. Second-round guard Max Scharping played at Northern Illinois—not exactly a hotbed of NFL-ready talent.

Houston took a hit defensively too. Going from Kareem Jackson and Tyrann Mathieu to Bradley Roby and Tashaun Gipson is a sizable downgrade.

Simply put, Gaine blew it.

GRADE: D
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CloakNNNdagger said:
"He failed" seems to be quite bold a statement before the season even gets going. But this is not the 1st negative article he has written about the Texans.
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I am slowly getting used to this fashion of Houston bashing - and its not just football.
It still irks me at times with some sheer stupidity but in the main, I am slowly becoming desensitized to it.
I just can't wait to see faces with egg splattered all over them.
 
dalemurphy said:
Correct... and where did the Texans' 1st round pick fall?
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since that pick led to acquiring Deshaun Watson, I would say that he fell all over the damn place to the tune of what was it 62 times? Franchise QB though no doubt about that anymore. And then knowing that- the brain trust felt that a thank you contract for Henderson, a 'Hope you get better' contract for Kalil, huge reach on Howard would be the best way to improve that issue.

(rest of comment not aimed at you Dale - just rambling from this point forth)

Blind defense of Gaine? Why am I not surprised. "leave him alone, he's the best guy for the job!!" .. I mean some people have been watching football and front offices their entire lifetimes, does it take them 4 or 5 years to say that a player taken way before his draft slot was a reach and more than likely will bust out? No - people will only bring up the one or two players that beat the odds and use that as grounds as to why THIS TIME will be different than the other 99 times. Still though people will call the 99% of negative press on this team as hateful and ignorant. LOL irony like a mother!

Last year it was "hey leave him alone, he didnt have any picks to work with okay, and he got us Justin Reid (but whiffed on everyone else) .. his free agent centerpiece? Aaron Colvin? He was a healthy scratch towards the end of the year. This year tons of money and he somehow makes the team worse! If this dude makes many more head scratching decisions everyone around these parts is going to be bald. This is Buttchins minion though a nice gopher and does what he's told and walks that company line perfectly.

Rick Smith still gets **** on around here, but the truth is that he HIT ON MOST of his 1st round draft picks and plenty of the 2nd. 1st round picks selected for need should never be projects but day one factors and this year doesnt really do much for establishing a culture for Gaine.

Oh wait, thats right it will be 4 years before anyone can really know for sure. By that time they will both have been resigned to 10 year deals for going 9-7 a couple of times.
 
Uncle Rico said:
since that pick led to acquiring Deshaun Watson, I would say that he fell all over the damn place to the tune of what was it 62 times? Franchise QB though no doubt about that anymore. And then knowing that- the brain trust felt that a thank you contract for Henderson, a 'Hope you get better' contract for Kalil, huge reach on Howard would be the best way to improve that issue.

(rest of comment not aimed at you Dale - just rambling from this point forth)

Blind defense of Gaine? Why am I not surprised. "leave him alone, he's the best guy for the job!!" .. I mean some people have been watching football and front offices their entire lifetimes, does it take them 4 or 5 years to say that a player taken way before his draft slot was a reach and more than likely will bust out? No - people will only bring up the one or two players that beat the odds and use that as grounds as to why THIS TIME will be different than the other 99 times. Still though people will call the 99% of negative press on this team as hateful and ignorant. LOL irony like a mother!

Last year it was "hey leave him alone, he didnt have any picks to work with okay, and he got us Justin Reid (but whiffed on everyone else) .. his free agent centerpiece? Aaron Colvin? He was a healthy scratch towards the end of the year. This year tons of money and he somehow makes the team worse! If this dude makes many more head scratching decisions everyone around these parts is going to be bald. This is Buttchins minion though a nice gopher and does what he's told and walks that company line perfectly.

Rick Smith still gets **** on around here, but the truth is that he HIT ON MOST of his 1st round draft picks and plenty of the 2nd. 1st round picks selected for need should never be projects but day one factors and this year doesnt really do much for establishing a culture for Gaine.

Oh wait, thats right it will be 4 years before anyone can really know for sure. By that time they will both have been resigned to 10 year deals for going 9-7 a couple of times.
Click to expand...

I am sure Steelbtexan will attest that I was a defender of Rick Smith for the majority of his reign.

A number of things eventually changed my mind about him. Primarily, though, it was his inability to assess the team's roster weaknesses and adequately attempt to address it in the off-season. His answer to a weakness seemed limited to the signing of one significant free agent at the position or one early round draft pick. This is why the team was dogged by poor safety play for most of a decade, IMO.

What I find refreshing about Gaine is that he clearly diagnoses the team's weaknesses and aggressively attempts to address it, not by adding a single player but by attempting to infuse the depth chart with talent... not only that, but by addressing the nature of those weaknesses. He doesn't simply add a good player to a position of need but attempts to address the particular skills missing. For example, we lacked speed and athleticism at CB this year, so he brought in speed and athleticism, letting limited athletes like KJax go. At safety, we have been getting murdered by pass catching TEs, and he addressed that issue as well.

I can not assert whether he made the "right" pick at 22 or not. However, what I have seen that I can assess (namely his understanding of the team's problems and efforts to address them in consecutive off-seasons), gives me some confidence in him.
 
Uncle Rico said:
since that pick led to acquiring Deshaun Watson, I would say that he fell all over the damn place to the tune of what was it 62 times? Franchise QB though no doubt about that anymore. And then knowing that- the brain trust felt that a thank you contract for Henderson, a 'Hope you get better' contract for Kalil, huge reach on Howard would be the best way to improve that issue.

(rest of comment not aimed at you Dale - just rambling from this point forth)

Blind defense of Gaine? Why am I not surprised. "leave him alone, he's the best guy for the job!!" .. I mean some people have been watching football and front offices their entire lifetimes, does it take them 4 or 5 years to say that a player taken way before his draft slot was a reach and more than likely will bust out? No - people will only bring up the one or two players that beat the odds and use that as grounds as to why THIS TIME will be different than the other 99 times. Still though people will call the 99% of negative press on this team as hateful and ignorant. LOL irony like a mother!

Last year it was "hey leave him alone, he didnt have any picks to work with okay, and he got us Justin Reid (but whiffed on everyone else) .. his free agent centerpiece? Aaron Colvin? He was a healthy scratch towards the end of the year. This year tons of money and he somehow makes the team worse! If this dude makes many more head scratching decisions everyone around these parts is going to be bald. This is Buttchins minion though a nice gopher and does what he's told and walks that company line perfectly.

Rick Smith still gets **** on around here, but the truth is that he HIT ON MOST of his 1st round draft picks and plenty of the 2nd. 1st round picks selected for need should never be projects but day one factors and this year doesnt really do much for establishing a culture for Gaine.

Oh wait, thats right it will be 4 years before anyone can really know for sure. By that time they will both have been resigned to 10 year deals for going 9-7 a couple of times.
Click to expand...
Lol, Kelly was the only draftee that didn’t contribute last year. Great draft and he didn’t have much time to prepare for it. RS left with this team gutted. BG’s record is 11-5 with that OL. Not a bad start.
 
Texansphan said:
I am slowly getting used to this fashion of Houston bashing - and its not just football.
It still irks me at times with some sheer stupidity but in the main, I am slowly becoming desensitized to it.
I just can't wait to see faces with egg splattered all over them.
Click to expand...

I dont see a well run Astros org getting bashed.

They take chances on guys and participate in FA as well as make trades that improve their nucleus,

Pressly/Cole/Osuna/Diaz trades. Notice how they took a chance on a top tier closer like Osuna despite the heat they knew they would take for making thie trade.

FA's Brantley/Chirinos/Miley

Even though they have a great core Luhnow is constantly trying to improve his team through ALL avenues. I wish other teams in this town would take notice and follow Luhnow's lead.
 
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