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Another update on Plummer coming to Houston

texansgal8 said:
I just have this feeling he will end up here...
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It's definitely looking that way. It will be nice to have Plummer and Carr duke it out with the winner getting the job...Kubiak isn't playing any favoritism games with Carr or else he would have already endorsed him as the lone starter.
 
ledzeppelin269 said:
It's definitely looking that way. It will be nice to have Plummer and Carr duke it out with the winner getting the job...Kubiak isn't playing any favoritism games with Carr or else he would have already endorsed him as the lone starter.
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I don't know if it'll end up that way. I don't know that we'll carry 3 quarterbacks. Someone's got to go.
 
TEXANS84 said:
I don't know if it'll end up that way. I don't know that we'll carry 3 quarterbacks. Someone's got to go.
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I really wish we would...Or at least find someone else that can take the backup QBs special teams role. Watching our second option at QB get hurt while option #1 stinks it up more than a New Jersey sewer rat's fecal matter is not something I want to see next season (is that the smelliest combination possible? In any case, I tried. I still don't know if it appropriately conveys the smellitude).

I also don't want another #3 QB situation like a couple years ago. And if it comes to getting rid of someone...Carr is a fine person but he's had his chances. Not only has he not improved (other than the very beginning) he has extremely terrible games with his "improvement" games barely reaching mediocre. Let Sage and Jake battle it out at that point, preferably with a rookie that can take over at some point in the next couple years. That would actually be a better scenario IMO than Carr - Plummer - Sage.
 
thunderkyss said:
According to that article, we may end up having to give them Sage....
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I hope not. Sage is a decent backup QB.

Based on that article, Plummer is too expensive, IMO. We might as well draft a kid to develop in the long run and take our chances with Super Dave. I don't see Plummer as a major upgrade over what we've already got, to be honest. And financially, we'd owe a lot of money to the QB position and we could really use those funds at other spots on this team.
 
Double Barrel said:
I hope not. Sage is a decent backup QB.

Based on that article, Plummer is too expensive, IMO. We might as well draft a kid to develop in the long run and take our chances with Super Dave. I don't see Plummer as a major upgrade over what we've already got, to be honest. And financially, we'd owe a lot of money to the QB position and we could really use those funds at other spots on this team.
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I agree about his money. Maybe we could give him a decent deal with incentives if he starts a certain number of games. Would playing under Kubiak again with a legit shot at the starting job be enough incentive to take a reduced contract this season?
 
Double Barrel said:
I hope not. Sage is a decent backup QB.

Based on that article, Plummer is too expensive, IMO. We might as well draft a kid to develop in the long run and take our chances with Super Dave. I don't see Plummer as a major upgrade over what we've already got, to be honest. And financially, we'd owe a lot of money to the QB position and we could really use those funds at other spots on this team.
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And what frustrates me is Sage hasn't even been givin a chance yet...I mean a real chance.
 
Uh... that article failed to mention the Raiders.

Raiders are in the market for just about everything... and depending on how Jake "really" feels about Denver, I would say Oakland is just as much in the market for him as Miami, Houston, and Cleveland.

Not so sure how he would feel about getting plays from Coach Doogie Kiffin, A.A., though.
 
the wonger need food said:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5303726,00.html

Houston Texans: Coach Gary Kubiak is looking for a veteran because David Carr's play regressed and Kubiak likes Plummer as a player. Plummer always has said he enjoyed playing for Kubiak, a former Broncos offensive coordinator.
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To be clear, the bolded part is speculation by the author of the article, substantiated by nothing at all. Not that we don't believe it, but don't get your hopes all up that this is a quote out of Texans camp or something.
 
What's hilarious to me is that you guys are grasping at every possible straw--no matter how insignificant--you can find to endorse Carr being out of here, and yet how quickly you seem to forget the way in which every single media voice in the country last year reported definitively on our drafting Reggie Bush for months as if it was a done deal, until virtually hours before the draft.

Is it possible we pick up Jake, given that he's probably only a small improvement over Carr, yet is older and would cost a lot of money to acquire? Sure. Is it likely? I just don't see it. We have too many other positions in worse need of upgrade, and I'm still not convinced the coaches are that dissatisfied with his improvement here.
 
jerek said:
What's hilarious to me is that you guys are grasping at every possible straw--no matter how insignificant--you can find to endorse Carr being out of here, and yet how quickly you seem to forget the way in which every single media voice in the country last year reported on our drafting Reggie Bush for months as if it was a done deal, until virtually hours before the draft.

Is it possible we pick up Jake, given that he's probably only a small improvement over Carr, yet is older and would cost a lot of money to acquire? Sure. Is it likely? I just don't see it. We have too many other positions in worse need of upgrade, and I'm still not convinced the coaches are that dissatisfied with his improvement here.
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Well I don't think they're satisfied. So if they aren't dissatisfied, but probably not delusional enough to be "satisfied", does that make them indifferent? Unless someone offers a decent deal for Carr I'm assuming he will be back, but I want some real competition. And if Sage gets hurt for whatever reason I don't want to be forced to stick with Carr all season just because he's the Default QB. Give Sage a realistic shot and draft a rookie. If Plummer will come here cheap for a year, do that. I don't care. I want Carr's back to be on the anvil with the hammer looming overhead, and if he can't handle it, someone else gets a shot. I don't care if it means a lack of continuity, because continuity with Carr under center equals continuous suck with a smidgen of mediocre.

If he can have an entire season like his first few games, I will gladly eat an entire flock of crow and enjoy every bite because the bottom line is that I want this team to win.
 
Well then, let's really :stirpot:

Carr goes to Oakland for there 2nd round pick.
Plummer comes to Houston for Sage.

That way, Oakland can use there 1st overall on the man they really want, a Badass WR.

You guys that hate Carr, get your wish, he will be gone...

And for those of us who think Pummer is not the answer, will see us drafting in the top 5 next year and grabbing a franchise QB...

Chad Henne from Michigan, Brian Brohm from Louisville, or Colt Brennan from Hawaii...

Then with our 1st pick this year, we take AD, then with Oakland's 2nd rounder and our 2nd rounder, we can address D or OL or both...

Would that make everyone happy? :hides:
 
Double Barrel said:
I hope not. Sage is a decent backup QB.

Based on that article, Plummer is too expensive, IMO.
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Which is why Denver will have to cut him. They are not going to pay him the money he is making to be a back up, period. And there is no reason to let him play now that Cutler has shown he can grow into the position.

So we do not need to trade him, Plummer knows Kubiaks number and what his career was under him, Jake will call when he is released.

I am starting to warm up to the idea of having a guy that can make this team into winners, not just close to .500. Not saying Jake can take us to the promised land but he will take us past where we have been.

Maybe signing Jake, trading Carr, keeping Sage, and drafting a 3 round or later QB is the way to go. Let Jake and Sage lead this team to a playoff type team and let the draftee learn and hold the clip board. In a few years Jake, will become the old guy back up and the young guy should be ready, if they picked the right one.
 
HomeBred_Texan said:
And for those of us who think Pummer is not the answer, will see us drafting in the top 5 next year and grabbing a franchise QB...

Chad Henne from Michigan, Brian Brohm from Louisville, or Colt Brennan from Hawaii...
Click to expand...
Hey didn't Brennan say he was coming out after all?
 
HomeBred_Texan said:
Chad Henne from Michigan, Brian Brohm from Louisville, or Colt Brennan from Hawaii...

Then with our 1st pick this year, we take AD, then with Oakland's 2nd rounder and our 2nd rounder, we can address D or OL or both...

Would that make everyone happy? :hides:
Click to expand...

Already looking ahead to the 2008 draft pick? Ha! I think if the QB issue hasn't been addressed by then, a disgruntled AJ and Moulds are out of here. So now the Texans start over with a QB but no good WRs...

See the signature:
 
The only way I am for bringing in Plummer here is if he is released by the Broncos. Under NO circumstances would I be ok with the front office giving up a draft pick higher than a 5th rounder for him, we have too many holes and need to many things to give up anything higher than that. I don't even think that Plummer would be that much of a better option in my opinion. Kubiak's offense takes at least 2 years for a QB to be comfortable in and understand. I would much rather keep Carr give him his 2nd year in the offense with a better o-line and consistent running game and maybe draft a QB in a latter round this year or get one next year. Until the offensive line plays as a unit and can consistently block for the passing and running game we will continue with these problems.
 
Blu said:
Hey didn't Brennan say he was coming out after all?
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I think he said he was to get a draft grade and get an idea but decided to go back to school and didn't officially declare. He never got an agent.

unless things have changed in the last day or so...
 
Lucky said:
Where did you get that from? Sage wasn't mentioned in the article.
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The Broncos aren't going to release Jake unless they have a competent back up who is familiar with the system.

that would be Griese.... depending on how you define competent.....

or Sage....... depending on how you define veteran.
 
thunderkyss said:
The Broncos aren't going to release Jake unless they have a competent back up who is familiar with the system.

that would be Griese.... depending on how you define competent.....

or Sage....... depending on how you define veteran.
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OK, that's your opinion. That's not from the article. Here's what the article said regarding a Plummer trade:

The Broncos would take the full salary-cap hit of $8,556,000 if they trade Plummer, but anything they receive in return - most likely a draft pick - has to be worth more to the team than the cap savings it would get this year with a June 1 release.
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The Broncos aren't going to take an $8+ million cap hit just to get Sage Rosenfels. And I don't think the Broncos will get a draft pick offer worth more than the $5.7 million cap savings they'll get from designating Plummer as a June 1 cut.

Because Plummer's salary-cap figure for 2007 is $8,605,000, to cut him after June 1 would give the Broncos $5,704,000 in cap room this year that currently isn't on the books.

The Broncos can get that savings earlier than June 1 if they formally designate in writing Plummer will be a June 1 cut before then.

When the new collective-bargaining agreement was reached in March, it allowed teams to designate two players each year as "June 1" cuts, allowing teams to use the cap savings sooner during the offseason.
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Look for the Broncos to release, rather than trade, Jake. And look for the Texans to pick up Plummer once that happens.
 
I know u guys all want Plummer for some reason but lets look at it from his point of view..

Do I go to where the Money is? Or Do I go to where I can win a Championship?

Texans are not top of both lists..

Miami could be a spot that he would win better than the Texans, Jags might be intrested, Washington, Minn....
 
t_flare said:
I know u guys all want Plummer for some reason but lets look at it from his point of view..

Do I go to where the Money is? Or Do I go to where I can win a Championship?

Texans are not top of both lists..

Miami could be a spot that he would win better than the Texans, Jags might be intrested, Washington, Minn....
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I would would (depending on my family/financial position)...
1) go to win a championship..
2) go where the money is...

3) and most likely for plummer...go where I can start because I won't be in the league much longer...and wan't to play and start.
 
I consider Plummer an upgrade to Carr. The Broncos, before this year, were in the playoffs almost every year. The Texans haven't even scratched the surface. If we can trade Carr for some kind of pick, and have Plummer, I can almost guarantee at least a wildcard.

I however do not want to give up Sage. I like the guy and wouldnt mind him starting if we dont get Plummer.
 
Playoffs, with our offensive line, and defensive just starting to take form, I think we will be waiting until 2008, with or without plummer. Once we sure those two items up, any QB will get us there. Without, not even Peyton Manning is getting us to the playoffs.
 
Double Barrel said:
I hope not. Sage is a decent backup QB.

Based on that article, Plummer is too expensive, IMO. We might as well draft a kid to develop in the long run and take our chances with Super Dave. I don't see Plummer as a major upgrade over what we've already got, to be honest. And financially, we'd owe a lot of money to the QB position and we could really use those funds at other spots on this team.
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Ditto.
 
rockabilly said:
I consider Plummer an upgrade to Carr. The Broncos, before this year, were in the playoffs almost every year. The Texans haven't even scratched the surface. If we can trade Carr for some kind of pick, and have Plummer, I can almost guarantee at least a wildcard.
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The year before last the Broncos were in the playoffs despite Plummer and this year he got dropped during a playoff run for a first year rookie. And this on a team with very few holes - unlike us. I think Plummer would be a sideways step at best right now.

rockabilly said:
I however do not want to give up Sage. I like the guy and wouldnt mind him starting if we dont get Plummer.
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I like Sage too, but only as a backup. He had one good half game and a decent preseason - I don't understand why so many people have leapt to pin the starting QB job on a textbook backup. I firmly believe that Sage is right where he should be.
 
jerek said:
What's hilarious to me is that you guys are grasping at every possible straw--no matter how insignificant--you can find to endorse Carr being out of here, and yet how quickly you seem to forget the way in which every single media voice in the country last year reported definitively on our drafting Reggie Bush for months as if it was a done deal, until virtually hours before the draft.

Is it possible we pick up Jake, given that he's probably only a small improvement over Carr, yet is older and would cost a lot of money to acquire? Sure. Is it likely? I just don't see it. We have too many other positions in worse need of upgrade, and I'm still not convinced the coaches are that dissatisfied with his improvement here.
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Plummer a small improvement over Carr? Plummer wass 7-4 before he was dumped by the Broncos. Carr threw one touchdown in ten games. You also forget Kubiak loves Denver rejects. some of us are disatisfied with our QB. Everything has changed except him so no more excuses.
 
Aztequila said:
Playoffs, with our offensive line, and defensive just starting to take form, I think we will be waiting until 2008, with or without plummer. Once we sure those two items up, any QB will get us there. Without, not even Peyton Manning is getting us to the playoffs.
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How so?? the Cowboys were in a similar position last year, & they made it into the Playoffs..... Same with the Jets. as a matter of fact, a 9-7 team made it into the play-offs in the AFC(Kansas City) & IMHO, we are as talented as the Cowboys, the Jets, & the Cheifs.
 
I think that it was John McClain that started saying that we can expect Carr to be traded this offseason.

He says he hasn't heard anything specific from the organization. Even if he had heard something from the organization, I wouldn't expect him to say that he has. By saying that he hasn't heard anything specific, there are no questions about who his source is.

One thing is for sure here. For the first time in team history, Carr is being mentioned in trade rumors. And where there's smoke......
 
This is 'scratch my head' kind of stuff. OK, we have the posters that say Carr has never had 'everything' he needs around him to succeed like other QBs. Do the other 31 clubs all have this 'scenario' for their QBs?...just asking.

Secondly, as I understand it, to get Carr all the things Carr needs means getting--a better OL/star quality RB's/better WR's to go along with AJ (though he needs to drop fewer passes)/TE's, are we OK, here? And, finally, we need a better defense that can keep the other team from scoring so many points...oh,yes, almost forgot--with everything for David in place-we need to design schemes that cater to David's strengths.

Now, how much does all that cost and can we get it under the cap?

No, of course we can't, so what do we do....if Carr stays. JMO, but I don't think Carr is suddenly going to change after 5 yrs in the NFL so-if we keep him, what can we do as a team that we have the money for to improve Carr's play to a 'winning' level?
 
Because of Plummer's original contract with the Broncos and subsequent renegotiations - three years remain on the deal - if the team cut the veteran before June 1, it would take a salary-cap hit of $8,556,000 for the 2007 season.

If the Broncos cut Plummer after June 1, the cap hit would be over two years - $2,852,000 in 2007 and $5,704,000 in 2008.

Because Plummer's salary-cap figure for 2007 is $8,605,000, to cut him after June 1 would give the Broncos $5,704,000 in cap room this year that currently isn't on the books.

When the new collective-bargaining agreement was reached in March, it allowed teams to designate two players each year as "June 1" cuts, allowing teams to use the cap savings sooner during the offseason.

The Broncos would take the full salary-cap hit of $8,556,000 if they trade Plummer, but anything they receive in return - most likely a draft pick - has to be worth more to the team than the cap savings it would get this year with a June 1 release.
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Link

I hope the Texans aren't so enamored of Plummer as to make a trade for him. The Broncos are bluffing on keeping him around--no way they have a $8.5 mil cap hit disgruntled bench warmer. Plus, a trade means taking over his overpriced contract instead of negotiating a new deal after waiver.
 
infantrycak said:
Link

I hope the Texans aren't so enamored of Plummer as to make a trade for him. The Broncos are bluffing on keeping him around--no way they have a $8.5 mil cap hit disgruntled bench warmer. Plus, a trade means taking over his overpriced contract instead of negotiating a new deal after waiver.
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Ain't that the truth.
 
backup qb's will always be popular than the starting... Sage got his chance before Houston... did bad in Miami... He played good against Titians (even tho they played prevent the whole time) but what about Dallas? He suck after he took over in Dallas.

It happens everywhere... Some people thinks Atlanta's backup is better than Vick
 
t_flare said:
backup qb's will always be popular than the starting...
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Always?

I don't think Jim Sorgi, Kerry Collins, Drew Bledsoe, or whoever is backing up Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Carson Palmer or Brett Favre (for example) are more popular than the starters on their teams.

Backup QBs matter when the starter isn't getting it done on a consistent basis, or at all. That's why it's a hot topic in places like Houston, Jacksonville and even Chicago.
 
t_flare said:
backup qb's will always be popular than the starting... Sage got his chance before Houston... did bad in Miami... He played good against Titians (even tho they played prevent the whole time) but what about Dallas? He suck after he took over in Dallas.

It happens everywhere... Some people thinks Atlanta's backup is better than Vick
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While true about Rosenfels, he's also never had Kubiak as a coach. And Sage is our head coach's first QB hire, so that's got to count for something.
 
t_flare said:
backup qb's will always be popular than the starting... Sage got his chance before Houston... did bad in Miami... He played good against Titians (even tho they played prevent the whole time) but what about Dallas? He suck after he took over in Dallas.

It happens everywhere... Some people thinks Atlanta's backup is better than Vick
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In his entire career, Sage has started 2 games--his overall stats(percentages) for his career are about the same as Carr, who has started over 70 games and is...well, he's still David.

G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate

17 2 148 81 54.7 1041 7.03 77 9 7 4/21 13 4 77.6

76 75 2070 1243 60.0 13391 6.47 81 59 65 249/1466 143 21 75.5

Sage has more TDs than INT-Carr doesn't
Sage has a better YPA
Sage has completed a bigger percentage of passes over 20 yds than Carr
Sage has a higher QB rating than Carr

In fact, Carr only beats Sage in completion percentage, and we all know why that is....so,please, where has Sage done so badly?
 
Anti-Bush said:
What if the Broncs decided to trade Plummer to us for Carr straight up? A starter for a starter Carr can go fight Cutler for the job and Plummer comes here under Kubiak again and let him and Sage fight for the job. Then we still pick up a rookie from somewhere.
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In my opinion, the only way the Texans are going to trade for Plummer is a Jake for David trade. Otherwise it's too big of a cap hit to have 2 8$million QB's. And if Jake wasn't the answer, can you imagine how the fans would villify the Texans for 2 costly mistakes at QB. But it probably wouldn't be "straight up". There would be a stipulation that if Jake started so many games, the Texans would have to give Denver a draft pick in 2008.
 
NATHANHALE said:
In his entire career, Sage has started 2 games--his overall stats(percentages) for his career are about the same as Carr, who has started over 70 games and is...well, he's still David.

G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate

17 2 148 81 54.7 1041 7.03 77 9 7 4/21 13 4 77.6

76 75 2070 1243 60.0 13391 6.47 81 59 65 249/1466 143 21 75.5

Sage has more TDs than INT-Carr doesn't
Sage has a better YPA
Sage has completed a bigger percentage of passes over 20 yds than Carr
Sage has a higher QB rating than Carr

In fact, Carr only beats Sage in completion percentage, and we all know why that is....so,please, where has Sage done so badly?
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Instead of comparing apples to oranges, why don't you compare apples to apples? What has Sage done in his two starts compared to what Carr has done in his 75? Starting is NOT the same as being a backup! I don't know why this is such a hard thing to grasp. Defenses prepare all week for a starter, and its very tough to play against a defense keyed on you. Backing up is much easier, because the team wasn't expecting to see you.

G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate

76 75 2070 1243 60.0 13391 6.47 81 59 65 249/1466 143 21 75.5

G 2
Att 48
Comp 21
Comp % 43.75
Yards 278
YPA 5.8
TD 1
INT 5
Rating 30.05
 
gtexan02 said:
Instead of comparing apples to oranges, why don't you compare apples to apples? What has Sage done in his two starts compared to what Carr has done in his 75? Starting is NOT the same as being a backup! I don't know why this is such a hard thing to grasp. Defenses prepare all week for a starter, and its very tough to play against a defense keyed on you. Backing up is much easier, because the team wasn't expecting to see you.

G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate

76 75 2070 1243 60.0 13391 6.47 81 59 65 249/1466 143 21 75.5

G 2
Att 48
Comp 21
Comp % 43.75
Yards 278
YPA 5.8
TD 1
INT 5
Rating 30.05
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On the other side of the coin, 2 games is not much of a real evaluation of any QB, as posters still make excuses for Carr after 75! The bottom line is that we don't know what we have in Sage as a starter long term, while we've had 5 yrs to evaluate David. Until someone else is given a chance to start, everything else is just spceulation. Certainly, Carr has a lot more than 2 games of sub-par play, including several this year--1st Titans game/NE/Raiders,etc.

And, I can understand your grasping issue because I wonder why so mjany posters don't realize that so many questions would be answered by playing someone else. Are there any other QBs-fresh out of college-that were handed Carr's scenario...just curious.
 
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