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All encompassing Rick Smith thread

banned1976 said:
We can twist it all kinds of ways. Like I've wrote before, there are two camps in this discussion. And an outlier camp that says HC and GM are both responsible for the success and failures of this team. I'm of the later, you have been firmly in the anti-O'Brien camp.

If the chosen QB doesn't work out both O'Brien and Smith need to be fired. I've been firm on this. From the beginning. And I do believe Watson will sink O'Brien and Smith. Good. Osweiler should have done that already.
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This is where I am, but the Watson pick just bought Ricky 3 more yrs. The paying customers are mostly happy because they think the Texans found their franchise QB and the paying customers are what the McNair's are all about. I hope Ricky got Watson pick right but I have my doubts.

Drafting Watson and getting at least 3 more yrs of McNair's blessings in another in a long line of slick moves by Ricky McNair.
 
steelbtexan said:
I wanted Mahomes

BOB might have too.

It is what it is, this is a Ricky McNair pick for the next HC. I hope he got Watson right. I have my doubts you can win a SB with him although I'm sure Watson will be an upgrade.
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steelbtexan said:
This is obviously a Ricky McNair pick
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I'm leaning more towards this was Rick's guy. I believe O'b wanted Mahomes. I think the plan was to trade up to 12 & pick one or the other. They didn't expect KC to move that far ahead to get Mahomes.

I can't see why O'b would hold it against Watson. I believe he likes Watson as well.
 
bah007 said:
I think this might be a Pete Carroll situation for OB. He has very high potential as a HC but he has some lessons he needs to learn along the way. And he seems like he's the type to learn his lessons the hard way. He'll learn his lesson the hard way and get the ax, make the necessary adjustments, and then find success at his next stop.
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I think this is OBs last year with us. I think Vrabel becomes HC, RAC stays as assistant HC/DC and we hire a talented OC.
 
bah007 said:
I think this might be a Pete Carroll situation for OB. He has very high potential as a HC but he has some lessons he needs to learn along the way. And he seems like he's the type to learn his lessons the hard way. He'll learn his lesson the hard way and get the ax, make the necessary adjustments, and then find success at his next stop.
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I agree there are lessons that need to be learned. But I think he's learning. It may be the hard way, but he's learning.

I don't think McNair is going to fire him if the offense ranks above 15 & he coaches the guys he gets. I don't mean that to sound ugly, I think Rick Smith tries to get O'b the players he wants. But things don't always work out the way we want them to.

Maybe O'b wanted Garoppolo. Smith most likely wanted to get him. New England drafting a QB in the 2nd round was a surprise to everyone. O'b shouldn't take that out on Mallett, or Osweiler, or Savage... & it looks like he did.

Maybe O'b wanted Mahomes. Rick was probably going to get him Mahomes. Kansas City traded up from 27 to 10... when they have Alex Smith who's healthy & productive & will play for another five years. So Rick gets his guy.

But if the offense looks respectable, like something that makes sense (where last year's didn't) I think O'b can be here as long as he wants. But if he leaves because Rick gave $37M to Osweiler to come here, or two first round picks to get Deshaun Watson... DeAndre Hopkins, Will Fuller & Lamar Miller good riddance.
 
Some quotes from Lance Zierlein, on Radio 790.

"Arizona was never going to take Deshaun Watson, they were always going to take Hassan Riddick... they liked Mahomes, but not Watson."

"This wasn't any kind of smokescreen by the Texans, I had it from 3 different places -- very reliable places -- that the Texans were not going QB in the first, they were on offensive line with a fallback at linebacker. Multiple strong sources had this."

"I think something changed... and I'm sure it happened yesterday... I don't know if this is where an owner steps in and said "this is what I want to happen"... but this was a very aggressive move... and a change."

"If you're going to draft a QB from this group, Deshaun Watson isn't going to get you fired. He's got leadership skills and will work to be good. If he fails it's because he's just not good enough."

"The question becomes, how long does it take to get his feet under him, and it could be a while. We had David Carr in studio Rick after the pick and he emphasized, you absolutely have to sit the guy for a year. Bucky Brooks said, "What? You can't play Tom Savage!", and Carr said you have to sit him for a year."

"And I'm record with others saying that Bill O'Brien will not be here after this year."

"Andy Reid coached Brett Favre and he saw something in Mahomes that he said he absolutely had to have."

"There's a lot to be excited about with Deshaun Watson. I'm not happy at all that they've given up their 2018 draft, but that's just me."

"The chips are all pushed into the middle of the table on Rick Smith's job on this and after the Brock Osweiler thing."
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Some quotes from Lance Zierlein, on Radio 790.

"The chips are all pushed into the middle of the table on Rick Smith's job on this and after the Brock Osweiler thing."
Click to expand...

I'm not going to blame Rick Smith for bringing in QBs who've shown the ability to play well against good competition. I will blame the coach if he can't get those QBs to play well against poor competition.
 
I have had a love/hate relationship regarding Rick over the years. Right now i'm in the camp that he is one of the better GMs in the league. He has had plenty of misses but everybody does. Bottomline is that since 2007 this team has always been one of the more talented teams in the league when you look at all 32 teams objectively.

He is a guy that can get you quality players BUT the coaching staff has to have a clear vision in place for what they want. When Kubiak was here we hit on offense more often than not and whiffed on defense until Wade came in and told him what he needed.

Now that we have Crennel on staff we have been hitting on defense because Rac has a clear proven vision for what he needs in players. Every defensive pick we made in this last draft for example fits a specific role on this team. You can look at each player and have a good idea how they fit into a defense that is established and PROVEN to be dominant.

Hopefully now that OB has taken full responsibility of the offense we will now have a clear vision in place for personnel and we will be hitting on all the picks!
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Some quotes from Lance Zierlein, on Radio 790.

"Arizona was never going to take Deshaun Watson, they were always going to take Hassan Riddick... they liked Mahomes, but not Watson."

"This wasn't any kind of smokescreen by the Texans, I had it from 3 different places -- very reliable places -- that the Texans were not going QB in the first, they were on offensive line with a fallback at linebacker. Multiple strong sources had this."

"I think something changed... and I'm sure it happened yesterday... I don't know if this is where an owner steps in and said "this is what I want to happen"... but this was a very aggressive move... and a change."

"If you're going to draft a QB from this group, Deshaun Watson isn't going to get you fired. He's got leadership skills and will work to be good. If he fails it's because he's just not good enough."

"The question becomes, how long does it take to get his feet under him, and it could be a while. We had David Carr in studio Rick after the pick and he emphasized, you absolutely have to sit the guy for a year. Bucky Brooks said, "What? You can't play Tom Savage!", and Carr said you have to sit him for a year."

"And I'm record with others saying that Bill O'Brien will not be here after this year."

"Andy Reid coached Brett Favre and he saw something in Mahomes that he said he absolutely had to have."

"There's a lot to be excited about with Deshaun Watson. I'm not happy at all that they've given up their 2018 draft, but that's just me."

"The chips are all pushed into the middle of the table on Rick Smith's job on this and after the Brock Osweiler thing."
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It's Vrabel's team next year I bet. I don't know about Rick Smith.
 
Since Obriens been here, we've done dramatic moves primarily on offense.

It's like someone is trying to prove they're a genius, and future picks are treated with very little value.

If Watson is good, O'Brien gets to say he's a QB guru again.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Some quotes from Lance Zierlein, on Radio 790.

"Arizona was never going to take Deshaun Watson, they were always going to take Hassan Riddick... they liked Mahomes, but not Watson."

"This wasn't any kind of smokescreen by the Texans, I had it from 3 different places -- very reliable places -- that the Texans were not going QB in the first, they were on offensive line with a fallback at linebacker. Multiple strong sources had this."

"I think something changed... and I'm sure it happened yesterday... I don't know if this is where an owner steps in and said "this is what I want to happen"... but this was a very aggressive move... and a change."
Click to expand...
There wasn't any kind of smokescreen? That's how smokescreens work. Send out signals that you're going one way, then do the opposite. Sounds like Zierlein is pissed at being duped.

Who thought the Texans would be able to pull off that deal? Not Arizona, where there was a ton of linkage between them and Watson. Like the move or not, it caught everyone flush on the jaw. Teams and media alike.
 
thunderkyss said:
I agree there are lessons that need to be learned. But I think he's learning. It may be the hard way, but he's learning.

I don't think McNair is going to fire him if the offense ranks above 15 & he coaches the guys he gets. I don't mean that to sound ugly, I think Rick Smith tries to get O'b the players he wants. But things don't always work out the way we want them to.

Maybe O'b wanted Garoppolo. Smith most likely wanted to get him. New England drafting a QB in the 2nd round was a surprise to everyone. O'b shouldn't take that out on Mallett, or Osweiler, or Savage... & it looks like he did.

Maybe O'b wanted Mahomes. Rick was probably going to get him Mahomes. Kansas City traded up from 27 to 10... when they have Alex Smith who's healthy & productive & will play for another five years. So Rick gets his guy.

But if the offense looks respectable, like something that makes sense (where last year's didn't) I think O'b can be here as long as he wants. But if he leaves because Rick gave $37M to Osweiler to come here, or two first round picks to get Deshaun Watson... DeAndre Hopkins, Will Fuller & Lamar Miller good riddance.
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TheRealJoker said:
I have had a love/hate relationship regarding Rick over the years. Right now i'm in the camp that he is one of the better GMs in the league. He has had plenty of misses but everybody does. Bottomline is that since 2007 this team has always been one of the more talented teams in the league when you look at all 32 teams objectively.

He is a guy that can get you quality players BUT the coaching staff has to have a clear vision in place for what they want. When Kubiak was here we hit on offense more often than not and whiffed on defense until Wade came in and told him what he needed.

Now that we have Crennel on staff we have been hitting on defense because Rac has a clear proven vision for what he needs in players. Every defensive pick we made in this last draft for example fits a specific role on this team. You can look at each player and have a good idea how they fit into a defense that is established and PROVEN to be dominant.

Hopefully now that OB has taken full responsibility of the offense we will now have a clear vision in place for personnel and we will be hitting on all the picks!
Click to expand...

Agree with this post except

1. Ricky McNair is one of the best GM's in the league.
2. He didn't fix the OL so you can expect the offense to look a lot like it did last yr. Maybe a little better with Savage at QB and BOB calling the plays.
3. Traded away the chance to fix the OL in next yrs loaded OL draft. (Brilliant)
 
steelbtexan said:
Agree with this post except

1. Ricky McNair is one of the best GM's in the league.
2. He didn't fix the OL so you can expect the offense to look a lot like it did last yr. Maybe a little better with Savage at QB and BOB calling the plays.
3. Traded away the chance to fix the OL in next yrs loaded OL draft. (Brilliant)
Click to expand...
He may not have "fixed" the OL, but we may be improved with the return of Martin and, hopefuly, Allen's return to good health. What hasn't been discussed is that Mancz not only can play OG, he can play RT. His lastest weight is listed as 310#, with 34" arms and 10" hands. His height is 6'-4".
 
Lucky said:
There wasn't any kind of smokescreen? That's how smokescreens work. Send out signals that you're going one way, then do the opposite. Sounds like Zierlein is pissed at being duped.

Who thought the Texans would be able to pull off that deal? Not Arizona, where there was a ton of linkage between them and Watson. Like the move or not, it caught everyone flush on the jaw. Teams and media alike.
Click to expand...

Yup, sounds like LZ got duped and given that he is supposed to be a Texans insider, especially in the NFL Network circle, that probably didn't make him feel good.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Yup, sounds like LZ got duped and given that he is supposed to be a Texans insider, especially in the NFL Network circle, that probably didn't make him feel good.
Click to expand...

I never understand guys with their "sources". All the info has to be taken with a grain of salt, whoever is giving them the info, has to be basically purposefully or inadvertently compromising the team's success by leaking trade secrets or they are purposely putting out a smoke screen. Can there really be that many sources who are in the former category?
 
Number19 said:
He may not have "fixed" the OL, but we may be improved with the return of Martin and, hopefuly, Allen's return to good health. What hasn't been discussed is that Mancz not only can play OG, he can play RT. His lastest weight is listed as 310#, with 34" arms and 10" hands. His height is 6'-4".
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There's also Lamm, who's in his 3rd year of the system. And possible OT cuts due to cap issues. Too early to say definitively what the o-line will be until training camp.
 
Number19 said:
He may not have "fixed" the OL, but we may be improved with the return of Martin and, hopefuly, Allen's return to good health. What hasn't been discussed is that Mancz not only can play OG, he can play RT. His lastest weight is listed as 310#, with 34" arms and 10" hands. His height is 6'-4".
Click to expand...

I hope Mancz can play RT, because rumors I've heard is they're thinking about moving XSF to RT and that would be a disaster. IMHO
 
I revisited this 2016 piece which I found somewhat deja vu, but certainly telling. This was essentially Ganguli's farewell to the Texans as she made her exit for The LA TIMES............a piece where she was no longer bound to closely tote the Texans FO line to keep her job.


How strong is Bob McNair's loyalty to general manager Rick Smith?
Jul 29, 2016

  • Tania GanguliESPN Staff Writer

HOUSTON -- Today's contract extension for Houston Texans general manager Rick Smith should come as no surprise.

Every time he's had the chance, owner Bob McNair praised Smith. He told me in March that Smith was doing "a fine job." Fans might have grumbled about the general manager at various points in the last decade, but the only person whose opinion truly matters for Smith's job security never did. The blockbuster offseason the Texans had only grew McNair's affection for the job Smith did. Smith got him a quarterback. He completely revamped an offense that needed a lot of work.

This extension, which adds four years to Smith's existing contract, goes through the 2020 season. The question isn't "Why?" That answer has been made clear repeatedly through McNair's confidence in Smith.

The question is this: How far will McNair's loyalty to Smith go, and at what cost to coach Bill O'Brien?

Smith's decade-long run as the Texans' general manager has offered mixed results for the Texans. His rosters helped the Texans make their first playoff appearances. The first time the young franchise ever had a season without a losing record came under Smith. But teams with Smith as the general manager have gone 6-10 twice and 2-14 once. They've had winning records only five times, twice in the last two seasons, and three times they barely managed that feat at 9-7.

I don't think Smith is a bad general manager. He's made several very good personnel decisions that have helped the Texans. He seems to make an effort to meet the demands of the head coaches with whom he works. He's been particularly good in the first round of the draft. He's had some hits and some misses in other rounds. The Texans' lack of success in the later rounds has hurt the bottom of their roster and consequently hurts their special teams -- especially in that catastrophic 2013 draft.

But Gary Kubiak wasn't a bad coach either. We can take that a step further. Gary Kubiak is a good coach, one who won the Super Bowl with the Denver Broncos in February. At the end of his time with the Texans, he didn't get the benefit of the doubt that McNair gave to Smith.

In 2013, amid the worst season in franchise history, McNair fired Kubiak and retained Smith. McNair had to make a change. But where he could have chosen a complete makeover and assigned equal blame to the men who built and coached that team, he didn't. His logic was the Texans' roster was fine -- it had the right pieces -- it was the handling of that roster that needed to be refreshed. He sat next to Smith on stage after firing Kubiak and said the Texans weren't headed for a significant rebuild.

Except that fairy tale wasn't true.

When McNair hired O'Brien, the roster's deficiencies became abundantly clear and a major overhaul followed.

Starting that offseason and over the next two years, the Texans turned over at quarterback, running back, receiver, tight end, nose tackle, inside linebacker, outside linebacker, defensive end and both safety positions. And even though the roster quickly and dramatically changed, none of that fell on Smith. Amazing, since he is the one who built the prior roster in the first place. The man charged with "fixing" the Texans offensive roster, is the same man who put it together.

In some ways, McNair's patience is admirable. Knee-jerk firings don't help a team grow.

But I wonder about the extent of his patience, the extent of his loyalty to Smith. If this version of the Texans fails, will Smith shoulder the blame? Or will McNair, again, see it as a case of mismanaged talent and blame the coach?
 
zshawn10 said:
James Palmer

✔@JamesPalmerTV
Of Rick Smith’s last 10 first round picks, the last 9 are still on the #Texans

11:42 AM - 26 Apr 2017

C-WloM3UAAA67tT.jpg
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Yes, look at all those wonderful marvelous picks. They have been so fantastic that they have been able to keep the Texans 1 game ahead of .500. Right smack dab in the middle of average and ordinary. Yes mediocre champions. Yes the record speaks for itself.
 
TheKDog said:
Interesting contrast between Kubiak and Obrien drafting styles.

So who built the better offenses?
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I always thought RS was in charge of the draft. I actually thought SBT or Texian wrote this article. Just sayin...
 
TheKDog said:
Interesting contrast between Kubiak and Obrien drafting styles.

So who built the better offenses?
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I always thought RS was in charge of the draft. I actually thought SBT or Texian wrote this article. Just sayin...
Texian said:
He's just chumming the waters to see who will take the bait.
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Not at all. I've never been too pro or too con against either HC or GM because I don't know who actually pulls the trigger on any particular draft pick/FA signing. I try to stay neutral.
 
DocBar said:
This should make heads explode all over TT. http://torotimes.com/2017/05/18/houston-texans-news-rick-smith-transforming-along-with-bill-obrien/
Click to expand...

You might also want to include this article by the same writer:

Brock Osweiler was never Bill O’Brien’s guy
1 month agohttps://twitter.com/manfreonair

There has been a growing sentiment on twitter as well as around the league that before this offseason Brock Osweiler was not only a mistake, but the signing was never something Houston Texans head coach Bill O’Brien wanted.
 
DocBar said:
This should make heads explode all over TT. http://torotimes.com/2017/05/18/houston-texans-news-rick-smith-transforming-along-with-bill-obrien/
Click to expand...
One of the main reasons why Kubiak was let go is because the Cogen Energy Boardroom thought the coaching staff had to much say in draft picks. Jerry Jones anyone? And if Rick Smith is making all these great wonderful trades and outstanding draft picks why then in the last 3 years has the team been 1 step in front of .500 and in the last 4 years is well under .500? The record does not agree with Mr. Manfre. The scoreboard says different. Mr. Manfre is drunk on the Texans Kool Aid.
 
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Texian said:
One of the main reasons why Kubiak was let go is because the Cogen Energy Boardroom thought the coaching staff had to much say in draft picks. Jerry Jones anyone? And if Rick Smith is making all these great wonderful trades and outstanding draft picks why then in the last 3 years has the team been 1 step in front of .500 and in the last 4 years is well under .500? The record does not agree with Mr. Manfre. The scoreboard says different. Mr. Manfre is drunk on the Texans Kool Aid.
Click to expand...
Says you. Have links to show evidence?
 
DocBar said:
Says you. Have links to show evidence?
Click to expand...
There is this new thing called Google, you type in your question and it spits out the information.

Houston Texans brass frustrated with Gary Kubiak
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...ston-texans-brass-frustrated-with-gary-kubiak

and

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account@RapSheet
#Texans front office a bit frustrated with Kubiak/coaches (4-10 in last 14). Coaches have too much draft input, keep stars on field too long
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/399592512933101568


Do you need links for Texans Win-Loss record for the last 4 years?
 
Texian said:
One of the main reasons why Kubiak was let go is because the Cogen Energy Boardroom thought the coaching staff had to much say in draft picks. Jerry Jones anyone? And if Rick Smith is making all these great wonderful trades and outstanding draft picks why then in the last 3 years has the team been 1 step in front of .500 and in the last 4 years is well under .500? The record does not agree with Mr. Manfre. The scoreboard says different. Mr. Manfre is drunk on the Texans Kool Aid.
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Convenient to go 4 years to include the disaster that was 2013 and not 5 years that includes 2012

Overall since he's been GM. the Texans have been over .500 and arguably getting better
 
JB said:
Convenient to go 4 years to include the disaster that was 2013 and not 5 years that includes 2012
Click to expand...

& 2013 wasn't a failure in talent. You had the same pro bowlers & all pros on the field that went 12-4 the year before.

2013 was a function of mismanagement from top to bottom.
 
JB said:
Convenient to go 4 years to include the disaster that was 2013 and not 5 years that includes 2012

Overall since he's been GM. the Texans have been over .500 and arguably getting better
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Go ahead and add the 5th year in, what does the record say? What does the scoreboard read? Just stick with each of the last 3 years when changes in the Cogen Boardroom were made, what does the record say? What does the scoreboard read? 1 game better than .500, average and mediocre. You can't hide from the truth. It is what it is.
 
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Texian said:
2013 was a dysfunction from a self destructing QB. If Schaub had been his normal self, so would the Texans.
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No doubt that's where it started, with the QB. But the dysfunction in the F.O. led to the infighting that snowballed the whole season.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
There has been a growing sentiment on twitter as well as around the league that before this offseason Brock Osweiler was not only a mistake, but the signing was never something Houston Texans head coach Bill O’Brien wanted.
Click to expand...

My problem with this type of statement is... ok, BOB didn't want him, he didn't have any say in this, but he does have say who starts and who is playing on the field. If BOB didn't want him, then why did he keep playing him?

You can argue he was forced to do so. If he was forced to play someone that he didn't want to, he should have quit. He'll get another HC gig. What does it say about our coach if others are forcing him to play a QB he doesn't like, and he sticks around and takes it?
 
dream_team said:
My problem with this type of statement is... ok, BOB didn't want him, he didn't have any say in this, but he does have say who starts and who is playing on the field. If BOB didn't want him, then why did he keep playing him?

You can argue he was forced to do so. If he was forced to play someone that he didn't want to, he should have quit. He'll get another HC gig. What does it say about our coach if others are forcing him to play a QB he doesn't like, and he sticks around and takes it?
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There is a pattern of behavior here, McNair tells Kubiak fix David Carr, then McNair wants Kubiak to bench Schaub and start Keenum, followed up by I just paid $72MM for this guy and it wasn't to sit on the bench. O'Brien's contribution to signing Osweiler was watching 2 game tapes 30 minutes before walking out the door to attend Wisconsin's Pro Day. That certainly adds credibility to O'Brien being less than enthused about signing Brock. What it says is Bill O'Brien is a lot like the Ginger, Jason Garrett. If O'Brien were to just quit and walk out that would be very detrimental to his NFL coaching career, see Bobby Petrino.
 
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dream_team said:
My problem with this type of statement is... ok, BOB didn't want him, he didn't have any say in this, but he does have say who starts and who is playing on the field. If BOB didn't want him, then why did he keep playing him?

You can argue he was forced to do so. If he was forced to play someone that he didn't want to, he should have quit. He'll get another HC gig. What does it say about our coach if others are forcing him to play a QB he doesn't like, and he sticks around and takes it?
Click to expand...

Throw in the fact/rumor/whatever that O'Brien doesn't want to be here... he could have benched Osweiler anytime he wanted. Get fired, get paid... I don't see the downside of doing what he "really" wanted to do.
 
Earlier on Radio 790, Sean Jones who formerly played with the Raiders, Oilers and Packers had this to say about the Jimmy Raye hiring and Rick Smith.:


"I know Jimmy Raye. I know him personally. And no disrespect to Jimmy, but he's no Alonzo Highsmith. He's not that guy.

More telling is that Brian Gaine leaves -- takes a job at Buffalo, which is not a lateral move, it's a step down -- but in his mind Houston is such a dumpster fire he'd rather leave than stay here. That tells me more than anything else.

So when Rick hires Jimmy Raye, Rick can't just hire him to Brian Gaine's position... he has to make it look like Brian left because we needed somebody better than Brian.

Jimmy Raye is not better than Brian Gaine."

"Rick Smith has a place in this league. He's very good at all administrative facets of being a GM... he's just not a good evaluator of talent."
 
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