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All encompassing Bill O'Brien thread

Texecutioner said:
It's possible that he could statistically, but it's the end of the game that matters. When it comes to those close games and 4th quarter pressure, Tom executes better than anybody. Also how well would Jimmy do with all of these constant injuries that Tom deals with over the last 5 years. The injuries to the Patriots skill players on offense is ridiculous. They've only had to seasons out of like the last 6 where they avoided major injuries to their receivers, and they won the SB both times. And actually last season they still lost Gronk. I have no doubts that Jimmy could tear it up. His arm and release is sick. Manning was amazing, but he was never what Brady was at the end of games in the post season. You just never know what Jimmy will be consistently in those situations or how well his health will hold up from year to year. He'll clown in San Fran though once him and Shanny get some weapons.
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Beware! If we starting talking about Brady I might seriously derail this thread. Perhaps we can start a "QB scouting & comparison" thread to create a space for this type of discussion. I would also love to get everyone's impressions on the new rookie QB prospects, because I feel obligated to watch them now.

@infantrycak You are a mod, right? Would that be an ok thread idea? It is Texans related, but also just about NFL QBing more generally. We could do things like compare Savage to Hundley in Green Bay. Both are disappointing back-ups.

I agree with both points, so much so that I liked it both times! Brady's clutch factor and his toughness are insane. We have almost no data on how clutch Jimmy is, and some data that he might not be tough. He might never win the big one, and I still wish we kept to him. I just want to the Patriots to maintain their style of play post-Brady; it is just fun to watch. Ring #6 is not that important to me. Not watching Brock 2.0 is.

For similar reasons I have rooted for the Texans under OB. When the EP system works, it is amazing to watch. I have seen this consistently with the Pats, and I believe you all have seen it with Watson. I am also excited for the RPO development that is going on with teams like the Eagles. At this point, I don't completely consider myself a Pats fan. I root for good football.
 
Throw it in the NFL forum since it sounds like a general QB discussion. You can link or copy posts if they are also topical to Savage, Watson, etc. discussions in TexansTalk. Thx for your contributions.
 
I thought that this episode of GM street with former NFL GM and executive Mike Lombardi has some relevance to the FO vs. HC discussion we were having. ML introduces the idea of a "deodorant QBs", which means QBs that "cover up the sins of everything else". The teams offense is overly reliant on the exceptional skills of the QB to produce, and stinks once they lose that QB.


At 3:25, Lombardi starts talking about Green Bay's QB situation. He mentions how Mike McCarthy sometimes takes heat for running such a simplified offense reliant on Rodgers' talents. Lombardi thinks that the reason McCarthy is forced to run such a simplified offense is because the FO relies on rookies. The system needs to be "fairly simple so they can all learn it". ML goes on to say, "Don't blame him for the ills, because he can't really change what he is doing because of how the roster is constructed".

At 5:42, Lombardi briefly mentions that Houston is in the same boat. Without Watson, the weaknesses of the offense are exposed. Unfortunately, ML does not elaborate on how responsible OB vs. the FO is.

I bring this up because Lombardi will likely be covering Houston this FO vs. OB theme more going forward, and will likely attempt to diagnose the issues in future episodes. If folks liked this summary of his thoughts on this, I will provide a summary next time he has additional insight on Houston. Don't worry, Lombardi has been willing to be critical of OB in the past; he was critical that he started Savage week 1, and highly critical of his decision making in the Seattle game.
 
BOB is blind. That he picked Savage over Keenum is more proof he knows nothing about QB's. Savage just got fatter, slower, and is not a professional in my eyes. He just quit when he lost his job. Not on Savage but on BOB for keeping him. BOB run for office along with Rick Smith.
 
gafftop said:
BOB is blind. That he picked Savage over Keenum is more proof he knows nothing about QB's. Savage just got fatter, slower, and is not a professional in my eyes. He just quit when he lost his job. Not on Savage but on BOB for keeping him. BOB run for office along with Rick Smith.
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Not a Savage or OB fan, where the hell do you get Savage quit?
 
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Well, we tried to be the Broncos and that didn't work and then we tried to be the Patriots and that didn't work either.
But it turned out that we were just like the Browns.
 
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Belichick Fan said:
I thought that this episode of GM street with former NFL GM and executive Mike Lombardi has some relevance to the FO vs. HC discussion we were having. ML introduces the idea of a "deodorant QBs", which means QBs that "cover up the sins of everything else". The teams offense is overly reliant on the exceptional skills of the QB to produce, and stinks once they lose that QB.


At 3:25, Lombardi starts talking about Green Bay's QB situation. He mentions how Mike McCarthy sometimes takes heat for running such a simplified offense reliant on Rodgers' talents. Lombardi thinks that the reason McCarthy is forced to run such a simplified offense is because the FO relies on rookies. The system needs to be "fairly simple so they can all learn it". ML goes on to say, "Don't blame him for the ills, because he can't really change what he is doing because of how the roster is constructed".

At 5:42, Lombardi briefly mentions that Houston is in the same boat. Without Watson, the weaknesses of the offense are exposed. Unfortunately, ML does not elaborate on how responsible OB vs. the FO is.

I bring this up because Lombardi will likely be covering Houston this FO vs. OB theme more going forward, and will likely attempt to diagnose the issues in future episodes. If folks liked this summary of his thoughts on this, I will provide a summary next time he has additional insight on Houston. Don't worry, Lombardi has been willing to be critical of OB in the past; he was critical that he started Savage week 1, and highly critical of his decision making in the Seattle game.
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Yeah, but butt.... Lombadi doesn't no anything and is a blowhard.

# BOB wanting out after the playoffs last yr.
 
Belichick Fan said:
In his presser OB said he has not done a good job coaching this year. Him saying that is a very good sign imo.
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I think Bill does some things really well and seems like a good guy . He's not good at being the head coach and the OC . Having said that I think he is on the short leash because he's not a Bob McNair type guy which means he and Rick Smith don't see eye to eye . . Bill O'Brien will probably go on to coach the Giants and do just fine while the Texans continue being the Texans .
 
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steelbtexan said:
The Owner/Sociology Major are the constants.
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Today, you found out Rick Smith has a Sociology degree. You've mentioned it throughout the game thread and now here it is again. Either it's shtick or OCD. I don't know if to laugh or be concerned for you. No way your obsession with Rick Smith is healthy.
 
Earl34 said:
Today, you found out Rick Smith has a Sociology degree. You've mentioned it throughout the game thread and now here it is again. Either it's shtick or OCD. I don't know if to laugh or be concerned for you. No way your obsession with Rick Smith is healthy.
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You should be far more concerned about what you witnessed today than anything to do with me. (Not that you're really concerned about either the team or me)

I was just pointing out the man's degree path and the fact that he's running a billion $$$$ enterprise and this should help explain some of the issues within the Texans org. If you have a problem with that then you're having issues with the truth and that's your problem, not mine.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
I think Bill does some things really well and seems like a good guy . He's not good at being the head coach and the OC . Having said that I think he is on the short leash because he's not a Bob McNair type guy which means he and Rick Smith don't see eye to eye . . Bill O'Brien will probably go on to coach the Giants and do just fine while the Texans continue being the Texans .
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This is kinda how I see things.

He did great as OC with Watson at QB but didn't have the balls to step up and go for it in short yardage against the Pats/Seahawks.
 
Even WITH him "changing his offense to suit Deshaun Watson" he blew two games with his horrendousness.

He's an awful coach. Always has been. Maybe not always will be. But let everyone find out with him somewhere else. Enough's enough.
 
steelbtexan said:
You should be far more concerned about what you witnessed today than anything to do with me. (Not that you're really concerned about either the team or me)

I was just pointing out the man's degree path and the fact that he's running a billion $$$$ enterprise and this should help explain some of the issues within the Texans org. If you have a problem with that then you're having issues with the truth and that's your problem, not mine.
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I don't have a problem with truth. You pointed it out in the game thread. You are pointing in out in this thread. I just find it borderline insane that because Smith has a Sociology degree, you have another excuse to beat a dead horse. You have no idea what degrees other GMs of NFL teams have. Until today, you had no idea what degree Smith had. But because it's a Sociology degree, it's now another thing for you belabor and point out in every thread.

BTW, O'Brien has a degree in Political Science.
 
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I don't give a **** how good OB theoretically is, he needs to go. Watson can thrive in anyone's system if can thrive in OBs, so bring on the new coaching staff and new system and let's start the frack over again. At least this time we'll have a QB.
 
Earl34 said:
I don't have a problem with truth. You pointed it out in the game thread. You are pointing in out in this thread. I just find it borderline insane that because Smith has a Sociology degree, you have another excuse to beat a dead horse. You have no idea what degrees other GMs of NFL teams have. Until today, you had no idea what degree Smith had. But because it's a Sociology degree, it's now another thing for you belabor and point out in every thread.

BTW, O'Brien has a degree in Political Science.
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BOB also has a minor in psychology (Very good thing for a HC. See: Jimmy Johnson) from an Ivy League school. Surely you can see the difference between that and a guy who failed out of college and then got back into school only because he was an athlete and obtained that vaunted Sociology degree.
 
Something weid is happening with the site. So if this is a double post my apologies.

JB said:
so why you jumping in here?
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Because I phukin feel like it. It's an opinion. Right? I see others with opnions and don't see a Nazi. Why now?
 
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Think the while degree thing is massively overblown. Anywhere but America sportsmen take a different path. Most soccer managers would have left school at 16 to become full time footballers, historically that position has combined both the HC and GM roles although increasingly clubs are now taking the American approach of separating the roles. Funnily enough its often failed managers (HCs) who fill the director of football (GM) role.

You'll find in most walks of life being qualified by experience outweighs your level of education. And whether you believe RS is doing a good job of not, hes certainly qualified by experience.
 
steelbtexan said:
BOB also has a minor in psychology (Very good thing for a HC. See: Jimmy Johnson) from an Ivy League school. Surely you can see the difference between that and a guy who failed out of college and then got back into school only because he was an athlete and obtained that vaunted Sociology degree.
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Tell us how that psychology degree help Jimmy Johnson in Miami? How many Super Bowls did he win? Tell us how it helped him to that sparkling 36-28 record with the Dolphins.
 
welsh texan said:
Think the while degree thing is massively overblown. Anywhere but America sportsmen take a different path. Most soccer managers would have left school at 16 to become full time footballers, historically that position has combined both the HC and GM roles although increasingly clubs are now taking the American approach of separating the roles. Funnily enough its often failed managers (HCs) who fill the director of football (GM) role.

You'll find in most walks of life being qualified by experience outweighs your level of education. And whether you believe RS is doing a good job of not, hes certainly qualified by experience.
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Agree. If you look at the successful GMs and HCs in NFL history, you see they come from all walks of life. The majority of the time, their success is tied to their on the job experience in the NFL. Their degrees range from Physical Education, and History to Economics. The majority of the time, a GM or HC college degree is hardly mentioned as a criteria for success. So, after not even having the intellectual curiosity to find out Smith's degree and having another poster mentioned his Sociology degree, it became another criticism throughout the game day thread. Then he started injecting the degree in every non AE Rick Smith thread.

In SteelB's world, Bill Parcells with a Physical Education degree is a lesser coach than O'Brien with his minor in psychology. I'm no Rick Smith apologist and he can be fired for all I care. However, to use his degree as a criticism for issues with the Texans' organization is one of the dumbest things ever posted on this forum and I had to call him out on it.
 
Earl34 said:
Tell us how that psychology degree help Jimmy Johnson in Miami? How many Super Bowls did he win? Tell us how it helped him to that sparkling 36-28 record with the Dolphins.
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He did pretty well in Dallas?

In Miami he and Marino got into a power struggle over how the offense was going to be run. They still made the playoffs despite this. Ironic thing is they both lost in this power struggle. Hating on what it takes to achieve greatness I see.

Don't worry about it though, the Texans can only dream of having the type of success that Jimmy had.
 
Earl34 said:
Agree. If you look at the successful GMs and HCs in NFL history, you see they come from all walks of life. The majority of the time, their success is tied to their on the job experience in the NFL. Their degrees range from Physical Education, and History to Economics. The majority of the time, a GM or HC college degree is hardly mentioned as a criteria for success. So, after not even having the intellectual curiosity to find out Smith's degree and having another poster mentioned his Sociology degree, it became another criticism throughout the game day thread. Then he started injecting the degree in every non AE Rick Smith thread.

In SteelB's world, Bill Parcells with a Physical Education degree is a lesser coach than O'Brien with his minor in psychology. I'm no Rick Smith apologist and he can be fired for all I care. However, to use his degree as a criticism for issues with the Texans' organization is one of the dumbest things ever posted on this forum and I had to call him out on it.
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There you go putting words in my mouth and you would be wrong. I don't care where a guy comes from as long as he puts winning 1st and foremost.

I've said all along Smith got his job because of his ability to kiss a** and his degree certainly confirms this. BTW, Give me a P.E. Coach that has 50 yrs of success over a guy that failed out of college and got a sociology degree in his 2nd try, to run a football team any day and twice on Sundays.

BTW, If you're OK with the current state of the franchise you are a Rick Smith apologist. Please don't speak to others about how I think since you don't have a clue about me, my background etc.... If you want to speak about me or take time to get to know me, I will give you a novel idea, speak to me and if you want to get to know me PM me and I will send you my phone number.
 
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welsh texan said:
Think the while degree thing is massively overblown. Anywhere but America sportsmen take a different path. Most soccer managers would have left school at 16 to become full time footballers, historically that position has combined both the HC and GM roles although increasingly clubs are now taking the American approach of separating the roles. Funnily enough its often failed managers (HCs) who fill the director of football (GM) role.

You'll find in most walks of life being qualified by experience outweighs your level of education. And whether you believe RS is doing a good job of not, hes certainly qualified by experience.
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How is he qualified to run a billion $$$$ business?
 
steelbtexan said:
Yeah, but butt.... Lombadi doesn't no anything and is a blowhard.

# BOB wanting out after the playoffs last yr.
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I think ML is actually a great football mind. I can't think of any other media guys that have such a deep understanding of football X's & O's, the game theory of game-management, player scouting, etc. Lombardi is not always correct, but that is the nature of making predictions. He does not have a crystal ball, and he owns it when he is wrong. He could just do football strategy breakdowns all day, and never be wrong. But that show would be less interesting.

By all accounts, ML is no longer a football FO member voluntarily. He talked about wanting to have an easier schedule.

I think BB was being honest when he said this:

http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/bill-belichick-mike-lombardi-one-smartest-people-i-know

If ML was given the GM position on the Texans with O'Brien as the head coach and Watson as QB, I am quite confident you would be a serious super bowl contender for years. He understands the FO strategy that underpins the Pats' schematic success.
 
Belichick Fan said:
I think ML is actually a great football mind. I can't think of any other media guys that have such a deep understanding of football X's & O's, the game theory of game-management, player scouting, etc. Lombardi is not always correct, but that is the nature of making predictions. He does not have a crystal ball, and he owns it when he is wrong. He could just do football strategy breakdowns all day, and never be wrong. But that show would be less interesting.

By all accounts, ML is no longer a football FO member voluntarily. He talked about wanting to have an easier schedule.

I think BB was being honest when he said this:

http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/bill-belichick-mike-lombardi-one-smartest-people-i-know

If ML was given the GM position on the Texans with O'Brien as the head coach and Watson as QB, I am quite confident you would be a serious super bowl contender for years. He understands the FO strategy that underpins the Pats' schematic success.
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I totally agree with this and was just responding to what some were saying when ML reported BOB wanted out and if BOB didn't win against the Raiders McNair was going to fire him.
 
Showtime100 said:
Because I phukin feel like it. It's an opinion. Right? I see others with opnions and don't see a Nazi. Why now?
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Kinda belies your "I simply don't care" comment which is what I was aiming to get you to admit. You care and care a lot. This season sucks even worse than 2013, and you didn't go off the deep end then, why now?
 
Belichick Fan said:
I think ML is actually a great football mind. I can't think of any other media guys that have such a deep understanding of football X's & O's, the game theory of game-management, player scouting, etc. Lombardi is not always correct, but that is the nature of making predictions. He does not have a crystal ball, and he owns it when he is wrong. He could just do football strategy breakdowns all day, and never be wrong. But that show would be less interesting.

By all accounts, ML is no longer a football FO member voluntarily. He talked about wanting to have an easier schedule.

I think BB was being honest when he said this:

http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/bill-belichick-mike-lombardi-one-smartest-people-i-know

If ML was given the GM position on the Texans with O'Brien as the head coach and Watson as QB, I am quite confident you would be a serious super bowl contender for years. He understands the FO strategy that underpins the Pats' schematic success.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with this and was just responding to what some were saying when ML reported BOB wanted out and if BOB didn't win against the Raiders McNair was going to fire him.
 
steelbtexan said:
How is he qualified to run a billion $$$$ business?
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Because he's been running a billion $$$$ business for the last 11 years. Previous to that he's worked his way up in a similar billion $$$$ business operating in exactly the same field for many years, and that was having spent his formative years and as a young adult training and operating in a non-manageriel role within that same field. Qualified by experience.

Look around you when you are in work next. Ask yourself how many of your colleagues got their jobs by having a job specific degree. How many have started at the bottom and worked their way up, and how many have done similar in other companies within your field.

You'll find an overwhelming majority of Rick Smith's in most walks of life.

And I'm not even defending the guy. All companies over promote like crazy, if you perform in your job role youll eventually be promoted until you reach a job role that your talent csnt handle. You see it everywhere. Just that this latest fixation is so far wrong and you can't see it.
 
welsh texan said:
Because he's been running a billion $$$$ business for the last 11 years. Previous to that he's worked his way up in a similar billion $$$$ business operating in exactly the same field for many years, and that was having spent his formative years and as a young adult training and operating in a non-manageriel role within that same field. Qualified by experience.

Look around you when you are in work next. Ask yourself how many of your colleagues got their jobs by having a job specific degree. How many have started at the bottom and worked their way up, and how many have done similar in other companies within your field.

You'll find an overwhelming majority of Rick Smith's in most walks of life.

And I'm not even defending the guy. All companies over promote like crazy, if you perform in your job role youll eventually be promoted until you reach a job role that your talent can't handle. You see it everywhere. Just that this latest fixation is so far wrong and you can't see it.
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And that is where we find ourselves.

Peter Principle GM..

:coffee:
 
No fixation here.

Just Ricky is the living epitome of the Peter Principle.

Sociology means he's proficient in bs which should explain to fans how Ricky has gotten where he is today and this is not conducive to winning a SB.

So now days I just Lol at the Texans organization.
 
I think this is the perfect time to make changes. Fire him now.
it will be good for the franchise and franchise player , start the search now

BoB needs to step down as HC , I'd be ok with keeping him as QB coach, he might perhaps be ok as OC.

Someone else need to be HC. I'm ok with keeping rest of staff depending on new HC
 
I think the time has finally arrived for McNair, RS and O'Brien to come out and take a bow for the masterpiece they've created here in Houston. For those fans who wish to give them hand for their accomplishments....so be it. I'm looking at this mess with absolute clarity and ask myself, how many more years is the end product supposed to acceptable to McNair and the fans of Houston.

In the 15 years McNair has enjoyed owning this franchise, he actually had 1 season where the team looked like it could make serious noise in the playoffs and a single player injured derailed those hopes. This year had the makings of an unexpected if not an exciting season, not necessarily in the win and loss column but in the roll out of Deshaun Watson and the team finally discovering it had an offense....again, enter the single player injury and the entire train derailed.

This team has lacked adequate depth for more seasons than the years they were able to successfully coin the phrase of "next man up" b/c they actually had the talent to make it work. This has a lot to do with drafts that have produced less than half of their picks actually contributing to the team beyond 1-3 seasons not to mention, depth and ST's have suffered for more years than it's actually worth counting.

This group has had the time, draft picks and resources to be much further ahead than this....this my friends is unacceptable.
 
steelbtexan said:
No fixation here.

Just Ricky is the living epitome of the Peter Principle.

Sociology means he's proficient in bs which should explain to fans how Ricky has gotten where he is today and this is not conducive to winning a SB.

So now days I just Lol at the Texans organization.
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Hey SteelB this is your kind of Monday, right ? Outside of a spirited and successful effort by the defense in the first half yesterday it was a really bad for the Texans which probably means you have an extra little bounce in your step today.
 
IDEXAN said:
Hey SteelB this is your kind of Monday, right ? Outside of a spirited and successful effort by the defense in the first half yesterday it was a really bad for the Texans which probably means you have an extra little bounce in your step today.
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Cant be further from the truth. Do you think I want the Texans to suck?

Fact is that you cant handle the fact that I speak the truth.

Carry on
 
Derrick said:
I think this is the perfect time to make changes. Fire him now.
it will be good for the franchise and franchise player , start the search now

BoB needs to step down as HC , I'd be ok with keeping him as QB coach, he might perhaps be ok as OC.

Someone else need to be HC. I'm ok with keeping rest of staff depending on new HC
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RS will not be fired... ever. He's family. He will be promoted eventually but don't expect it to happen soon

OptimisticTexan said:
I think the time has finally arrived for McNair, RS and O'Brien to come out and take a bow for the masterpiece they've created here in Houston. For those fans who wish to give them hand for their accomplishments....so be it. I'm looking at this mess with absolute clarity and ask myself, how many more years is the end product supposed to acceptable to McNair and the fans of Houston.

In the 15 years McNair has enjoyed owning this franchise, he actually had 1 season where the team looked like it could make serious noise in the playoffs and a single player injured derailed those hopes. This year had the makings of an unexpected if not an exciting season, not necessarily in the win and loss column but in the roll out of Deshaun Watson and the team finally discovering it had an offense....again, enter the single player injury and the entire train derailed.

This team has lacked adequate depth for more seasons than the years they were able to successfully coin the phrase of "next man up" b/c they actually had the talent to make it work. This has a lot to do with drafts that have produced less than half of their picks actually contributing to the team beyond 1-3 seasons not to mention, depth and ST's have suffered for more years than it's actually worth counting.

This group has had the time, draft picks and resources to be much further ahead than this....this my friends is unacceptable.
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You forget this is the the town that backed the Oilers strongly for 35 years and would still if they had a choice about it. Most fans are happy we have a team and sellouts will continue. Business is a booming success if you take the emotions out of it. It's good for the fans, the city and especially the Owners
 
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