Adam Schein: "Texans Shouldn't Give up on Carr now"

[Texans_Chick]

Here's Schein's point of view:

link

My first thought after reading this...

Even if his premise is right, I don't see how financially it can make sense to have a three way competition with Plummer, Carr and Rosenfels.

I am guessing that if the Texans pull the plug on Carr, there are things that he is doing that they don't think are fixable. They wouldn't say the details of what those things publicly because that would diminish his value, and take out his knees in case we would have to keep him.

 

[Navy_Chris]

Here's Schein's point of view:

link

My first thought after reading this...

Even if his premise is right, I don't see how financially it can make sense to have a three way competition with Plummer, Carr and Rosenfels.

I am guessing that if the Texans pull the plug on Carr, there are things that he is doing that they don't think are fixable. They wouldn't say the details of what those things publicly because that would diminish his value, and take out his knees in case we would have to keep him.

BRADY QUINN!!!

Carr goes to Minnesota for a 3rd.

 

[Texian]

The whole $$$$ thing doesn't make sense in the Carr-Plummer scenario. The Texans like the Broncos are going to trade a QB vs cutting him. They want some value for money invested. Trading Carr brings his 07 cap hit to around $4 mil. Plummer has an 07 salary cap hit of $7+ mil. I don't see the Texans taking a $11 mil cap hit for a QB in 07. They are only $10 mil under. I can't see Plummer renogitiating his salary with Denver just so they can trade him. Plummer would be better off getting cut and taking his chances on negoitiating a contract with his new team. He would probably be much better off. That said, Shanahan will take a 6th RD pick for Plummer before cutting him and Plummers current salary goes with him. Then there is Kyle, you have to wonder about Plummer's willingness to go to a new QB coach who's father just benched and cut/traded you.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

Plummer would be extremely unprofessional if he held that against Kyle...if that would be the case I wouldn't want that Kid on our team. kid being jake.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Plummer would be extremely unprofessional if he held that against Kyle...if that would be the case I wouldn't want that Kid on our team. kid being jake.

Agreed, but then again, Jake has had his bouts with being unprofessional.

 

[infantrycak]

TPlummer has an 07 salary cap hit of $7+ mil.

Plummer's salary is $5.3 mil for 2007 under his contract. The larger numbers you see reported are his cap hit if he stays in Denver which includes prorated signing bonus.

 

[trutxn]

News Flash...jake Plummer Is No Better Than What We Already Have.

 

[Texans Horror]

I agree with the link. I think that the Texans are missing two - three players to create a very tight offense. This can be acquired easily this offseason. With a good running back and a new lineman or two, and another season with Kubiak, the Texans can say they have exhausted all resources. If Carr doesn't look good next year, they can take a QB then, but they have invested too much and come too far with Carr to show him the doorstep right now.

Also, to can Carr means the Texans are starting over...again...and I'm not fond of that idea.

If they truly wanted a QB, they should have taken one last year when two really great quarterbacks were there for the taking.

 

[Lucky]

Wow, how about Andre throwing David under the bus? I hope the next QB has the guts to get in Johnson's grill the next time he drops a gimme, quits on a route, or lets a DB get inside him for a pick. Clearly, Carr doesn't.

Finally, the obliquitory question: Who is Adam Schein?

 

[RTP2110]

I don't like the article. When the Texans lose it's, "The reason Houston lost to hometown boy Vince Young and the Titans in the quarterback's first pro start in Houston was because of the defense and its inability to make a stop or two, not David Carr.''

When the Texans win it's, "Carr went 3-1 last year against the top two teams in the division, the Super Bowl Champion Colts and the Jaguars.''

He sounds like some of the people posting in this MB.

 

[Texian]

Plummer's salary is $5.3 mil for 2007 under his contract. The larger numbers you see reported are his cap hit if he stays in Denver which includes prorated signing bonus.

Noted, Thanks! Then that would be a cap hit of $4 mil for Carr and Plummer's salary basically replaces Carr, correct? So the Texans would be adding $4 mil to the cap in 07 to add Plummer and trade Carr. I personally don't see the value there.

 

[petedy]

Well what do you know a sports writer who gave an objective view and certain posters don't like it because it wasn't tearing down Carr. All that I've read on these posts are predominately anti Carr and just one writer takes a different stance and you don't like the article.I bet if he had wrote one demanding Carr be driven from the league it would have made your heart sing.

 

[infantrycak]

Noted, Thanks! Then that would be a cap hit of $4 mil for Carr and Plummer's salary basically replaces Carr, correct? So the Texans would be adding $4 mil to the cap in 07 to add Plummer and trade Carr. I personally don't see the value there.

Carr's base for 2007 is $5.25 mil but his cap hit with prorated bonus would be $7.25 so take Jake at full price for $5.3 mil plus a $4 mil cap hit for Carr and it basically costs $2 mil of cap space to make the exchange. Keep in mind, the Texans could explore a renegotiation with Plummer as part of the trade talks, i.e. trade doesn't go through unless Plummer agrees to a renegotiated contract with a lower base.

 

[RTP2110]

Well what do you know a sports writer who gave an objective view and certain posters don't like it because it wasn't tearing down Carr. All that I've read on these posts are predominately anti Carr and just one writer takes a different stance and you don't like the article.I bet if he had wrote one demanding Carr be driven from the league it would have made your heart sing.

Please re-read my post. I didn't say anything about Carr one way or the other. I said I do not like the article because, actually, it's not very objective at all. Look at the two quotes that I posted. I'm not bashing or supporting Carr, I'm just saying that I don't like the article.

 

[HoustonFrog]

Please re-read my post. I didn't say anything about Carr one way or the other. I said I do not like the article because, actually, it's not very objective at all. Look at the two quotes that I posted. I'm not bashing or supporting Carr, I'm just saying that I don't like the article.

There has been alot of this going on lately. It is ok to not want Carr here or think for yourself. Too much "faction" talk.

I'll agree with Texans Chick on the part about a 3 way competition. Bad for the team, bad for us, bad for a coach who is trying to make an identity.

As for a comment above that we would be starting over without Carr. I think we would be moving forward and healing.

 

[Grid]

News Flash...jake Plummer Is No Better Than What We Already Have.

Plummer has been around..

Plummer is comfortable in the pocket..

Plummer knows the offense frontwards and backwards..

If Plummer gets sacked 50 times, it will be because the line is bad, not because he is making mental mistakes..

Plummer provides confidence and leadership at the QB position..



Its true that as far as QB skill goes.. Plummer is no better than Carr.. but in MANY other areas, Plummer is a big improvement.

But Plummer is old, and he would only be a temporary solution. People are acting like signing Plummer means he is going to be our QB for the next 10 years.

 

[A Texan]

News Flash...jake Plummer Is No Better Than What We Already Have.

Your newsflash is wrong!

 

[hollywood_texan]

Here is a quote from this guy in the article, "The reason Houston lost to hometown boy Vince Young and the Titans in the quarterback's first pro start in Houston was because of the defense and its inability to make a stop or two, not David Carr."

Question: When has the offense ever done anything to help out the defense to put a game out of reach or a late drive in the 1st or 2nd halfs?

This guy is just another Carr apologist realizing that Carr is on the hot seat.

Granted, all of the Texan's problems are not the result of David Carr and there has been questionable talent around him at certain positions to make a playoff push, but that is no excuse for the number of losses the team has had to endure and how ineffective the offense is week in and week out.

Carr is a #1 draft pick and a QB, you have to able to bring something to the table to make your team better regardless of the talent around you at an NFL level. Not necessarily win games, but execute the offensive gameplan at times to show you can do it, including the 2 minute drill.

Just because a team losses on the last play of the game doesn't mean the squad on the field or some certain player on the field is entirely responsible for the loss.

Carr has his fingers in all the losses the Texans had in 2006 and some wins he was ineffective as the QB to take credit for a positive contribution.

I don't think Carr is going anywhere, but I think somewhere down the line they will restructure his contract during the offseason.

 

[HoustonFrog]

Plummer has been around..

Plummer is comfortable in the pocket..

Plummer knows the offense frontwards and backwards..

If Plummer gets sacked 50 times, it will be because the line is bad, not because he is making mental mistakes..

Plummer provides confidence and leadership at the QB position..



Its true that as far as QB skill goes.. Plummer is no better than Carr.. but in MANY other areas, Plummer is a big improvement.

But Plummer is old, and he would only be a temporary solution. People are acting like signing Plummer means he is going to be our QB for the next 10 years.

Exactly. A slight upgrade with other skill sets that knows the offense and who will be there while a younger guy learns. I don't expect miracles.

 

[HoustonFrog]

Here is a quote from this guy in the article, "The reason Houston lost to hometown boy Vince Young and the Titans in the quarterback's first pro start in Houston was because of the defense and its inability to make a stop or two, not David Carr."

Question: When has the offense ever done anything to help out the defense to put a game out of reach or a late drive in the 1st or 2nd halfs?

This guy is just another Carr apologist realizing that Carr is on the hot seat.

Granted, all of the Texan's problems are not the result of David Carr and there has been questionable talent around him at certain positions to make a playoff push, but that is no excuse for the number of losses the team has had to endure and how ineffective the offense is week in and week out.

Carr is a #1 draft pick and a QB, you have to able to bring something to the table to make your team better regardless of the talent around you at an NFL level. Not necessarily win games, but execute the offensive gameplan at times to show you can do it, including the 2 minute drill.

Just because a team losses on the last play of the game doesn't mean the squad on the field or some certain player on the field is entirely responsible for the loss.

Carr has his fingers in all the losses the Texans had in 2006 and some wins he was ineffective as the QB to take credit for a positive contribution.

I don't think Carr is going anywhere, but I think somewhere down the line they will restructure his contract during the offseason.

He also fails to mention that when we were driving midway through the 4th quarter to take the league we decided to run a draw on 3rd and 8 and settle for a FG. It is plays like this that show a lack of confidence on a team that should be going for it.

 

[Insideop]

Wow, how about Andre throwing David under the bus? I hope the next QB has the guts to get in Johnson's grill the next time he drops a gimme, quits on a route, or lets a DB get inside him for a pick. Clearly, Carr doesn't.

Finally, the obliquitory question: Who is Adam Schein?

As far as I'm concerned he's just another "talking head" with an opinion. With coments like "the inexcusable decision of bypassing Reggie Bush" I don't put much stock in what they have to say after that. JMHO!

 

[mexican_texan]

Carr may be the next Kenny Stabler, but most Texans fans want to start over, not just of his play, but because he symbolizes the old Dom Caper Texans. He and the city of Houston need a fresh start.

 

[keyfro]

what i believe will happen:

i see david being traded to either the vikes or to the panthers for a mid-round pick (4th rounder) and everyone will be happy for about three months

i see david doing things we all hoped to have seen here...but with an above average o-line he'll get them done in (minn.)

plummer will do just about the same thing david did here

there will be half this message board calling for sage by week three

david will take the his new team (the vikes who is the team i believe we'll trade him to) to the playoffs in year one which will pravoke the entire board to asking why couldn't he do that here and another half this board going i told you we shouldn't have traded him...i told you we should have given him one more chance

carr will then go on to have a successful career (in purple) and this is the real reason why...the vikings will use the shotgun formation

yes that is the formation carr is most used to while playing in college and in high school...for some reason we never put him in shotgun even when the o-line was at it's worst...never made sense to me...and head coach brad childress will come out looking like this best qb coach ever because he simply put carr back into his comfort zone where all he has to do is take the ball and get rid of it instead of taking the ball from center...dropping back...and look for where the blitzer is about to hit him from

where does this leave us...still looking for the answer at qb when we should really be looking at fixing the o-line

carr does need to be traded because most of the fans here in houston are done with him...but needless to say i still have faith that he'll be a very productive qb in the league for many years to come

 

[HoustonFrog]

what i believe will happen:

i see david being traded to either the vikes or to the panthers for a mid-round pick (4th rounder) and everyone will be happy for about three months

i see david doing things we all hoped to have seen here...but with an above average o-line he'll get them done in (minn.)

plummer will do just about the same thing david did here

there will be half this message board calling for sage by week three

david will take the his new team (the vikes who is the team i believe we'll trade him to) to the playoffs in year one which will pravoke the entire board to asking why couldn't he do that here and another half this board going i told you we shouldn't have traded him...i told you we should have given him one more chance

carr will then go on to have a successful career (in purple) and this is the real reason why...the vikings will use the shotgun formation

yes that is the formation carr is most used to while playing in college and in high school...for some reason we never put him in shotgun even when the o-line was at it's worst...never made sense to me...and head coach brad childress will come out looking like this best qb coach ever because he simply put carr back into his comfort zone where all he has to do is take the ball and get rid of it instead of taking the ball from center...dropping back...and look for where the blitzer is about to hit him from

where does this leave us...still looking for the answer at qb when we should really be looking at fixing the o-line

carr does need to be traded because most of the fans here in houston are done with him...but needless to say i still have faith that he'll be a very productive qb in the league for many years to come

Wow. Ok. I'd hope even if this crazy scenario happens..beating out Jackson, etc that we would be heading in the right direction ourselves. There seems to be an assumption that a line can fix other Qbing problems.

 

[TexanFan23]

I believe Carr will be traded to Tampa for a 4th rd. pick.

I believe Jake Plummer will be added to the roster and I also think that the O-Line will be addressed heavily this offseason. I'd predict two 1st day O-Linemen in the draft and possibly a big name signing in free agency.

I wouldn't mind seeing Carr stick around, esp. if they build a better line..

 

[wolfscar]

Just because a team losses on the last play of the game doesn't mean the squad on the field or some certain player on the field is entirely responsible for the loss.

I think that Schein was trying to make precisely that point; that you can't say: the squad on the field or some certain player on the field is entirely responsible for the loss. If you needed to pick out an 'If only...' type moment from that game though, that was a horrifically bad defensive play. I mean, criminally bad.

I don't think Carr is going anywhere, but I think somewhere down the line they will restructure his contract during the offseason.

I hope you're right. If pushed for a standpoint, I'd lean towards him staying on, but I'd like to see him take a pay cut to do so. Love him or hate him, he just flat out has not justified that big fat paycheck and if he wants to back up what he says about wanting to stay here and win for the Texans then freeing up some funds to bring in more talent would be a good way to show it. I think it would go a long way towards ackowledging some of the resentment that a lot of fans feel too, purely by holding up his proverbial hands and saying, 'I know I've underachieved - give me one more chance and I'll earn my next contract extension on merit.'

 

[Arky]

He also fails to mention that when we were driving midway through the 4th quarter to take the league we decided to run a draw on 3rd and 8 and settle for a FG. It is plays like this that show a lack of confidence on a team that should be going for it.

Another way to look at that is everyone in the stadium is expecting pass. Cross 'em up with the run .... it's done all the time and done successfully. Had it been successful, Kubiak would have gotten props.

Also, IIRC, that was a time in the game when Tennessee had seized momentum and by kicking the FG, the Texans at least guaranteed themselves OT.

 

[HoustonFrog]

Another way to look at that is everyone in the stadium is expecting pass. Cross 'em up with the run .... it's done all the time and done successfully. Had it been successful, Kubiak would have gotten props.

Also, IIRC, that was a time in the game when Tennessee had seized momentum and by kicking the FG, the Texans at least guaranteed themselves OT.

That is another way to look at it except that when you have 3-4 wins I'd think you'd want to go for the kill. I believe this might have been the drive before that when they took a 1 pt lead to 4. I just took at as in taking the safe route.

 

[tsip]

OK, Carr apologist--got a challenge for you, and it should be easy--you've been asked this question a 'zillion' times but refuse to answer.

OK, let's start by recognizing that 'everyone' in the world knows--by memory and verbatim every single 'excuse' given for Carr's play on the field. We know that one day Carr will be enshrined in the HOF at the top of the granite wall that awards those players for entry-not for their 'superior' play on the field- but for their failure do to 'things' beyond their control. If not listed first, he'll be close to it.

Here we go--on the plays that Carr has had 'super fantastic' pass protection and he has multiple players opened down field with separation and clear skies/no sun in his eyes/perfect temps/excellent field conditions==everything perfect==why does he throw the ball to a player behind the line of scrimmage instead of down field??

Please, $$$ are riding on your answers...thanks...

 

[tsip]

Carr may be the next Kenny Stabler, but most Texans fans want to start over, not just of his play, but because he symbolizes the old Dom Caper Texans. He and the city of Houston need a fresh start.

Exactly, MT. There is just too much 'baggage' on both dides of the fence. Carr would have to 'fairly and honestly' beat out-by a wide margin-legit challengers to even begin a 'walk' to the other side.

And please,Kubiak, real proven competition.

And then, from the first snap, Carr would have to 'light' the stadium up with a Warren Moon type of game--remember the game in KC when Moon threw for over 500 yds?

Carr would have to become the 'boy who can' instead of the boy couldn't because everybody picked on him. Thought things went bad for him in the past?...just wait and see what's in store for him if he comes back...and we get 'status quo.........'

 

[hollywood_texan]

what i believe will happen:

i see david being traded to either the vikes or to the panthers for a mid-round pick (4th rounder) and everyone will be happy for about three months

i see david doing things we all hoped to have seen here...but with an above average o-line he'll get them done in (minn.)

plummer will do just about the same thing david did here

there will be half this message board calling for sage by week three

david will take the his new team (the vikes who is the team i believe we'll trade him to) to the playoffs in year one which will pravoke the entire board to asking why couldn't he do that here and another half this board going i told you we shouldn't have traded him...i told you we should have given him one more chance

carr will then go on to have a successful career (in purple) and this is the real reason why...the vikings will use the shotgun formation

yes that is the formation carr is most used to while playing in college and in high school...for some reason we never put him in shotgun even when the o-line was at it's worst...never made sense to me...and head coach brad childress will come out looking like this best qb coach ever because he simply put carr back into his comfort zone where all he has to do is take the ball and get rid of it instead of taking the ball from center...dropping back...and look for where the blitzer is about to hit him from

where does this leave us...still looking for the answer at qb when we should really be looking at fixing the o-line

carr does need to be traded because most of the fans here in houston are done with him...but needless to say i still have faith that he'll be a very productive qb in the league for many years to come

So Carr is going to become like fine wine overnight? Maybe, but I think it is unlikely. How many players that basically contributed marginal results for their team all of sudden are big-time players with a change of scenary? The odds are not in your favor regarding your predictions!

Yet, teams, divisions, and conferences are relative, I give you that. It is much easier for a team to make the playoffs in the NFC than the AFC. Further, I think the Vikings and the Panthers are an easier division than the AFC South.

 

[Texian]

Carr's base for 2007 is $5.25 mil but his cap hit with prorated bonus would be $7.25 so take Jake at full price for $5.3 mil plus a $4 mil cap hit for Carr and it basically costs $2 mil of cap space to make the exchange. Keep in mind, the Texans could explore a renegotiation with Plummer as part of the trade talks, i.e. trade doesn't go through unless Plummer agrees to a renegotiated contract with a lower base.

That's fine. You got a can of peanuts w/ a long expiration date and if you can trade them for another can of peanuts w/ a shorter expiration date at no cost, no real harm, no real foul. If you have to pay $2 mil for the peanuts w/ a shorter expiration date, then there is a problem. Now if we were getting a jar of cashews, well now that is different story but with Plummer it is just another can of peanuts w/ a shorter expiration date.

 

[QB75]

Your right.. Carr should have made the game saving tackle on Vince's run at the end of the game. Heck, where was he. Carr really hurt the defense that game.

Exactly. If you were at the game you know that the defense lost it. Not Carr.

 

[NFLforher]

...but needless to say i still have faith that he'll be a very productive qb in the league for many years to come

Yes.

 

[petedy]

OK, Carr apologist--got a challenge for you, and it should be easy--you've been asked this question a 'zillion' times but refuse to answer.

OK, let's start by recognizing that 'everyone' in the world knows--by memory and verbatim every single 'excuse' given for Carr's play on the field. We know that one day Carr will be enshrined in the HOF at the top of the granite wall that awards those players for entry-not for their 'superior' play on the field- but for their failure do to 'things' beyond their control. If not listed first, he'll be close to it.

Here we go--on the plays that Carr has had 'super fantastic' pass protection ans he has multiple players opened down field with separation and clear skies/no sun in his eyes/perfect temps/excellent field conditions==everything perfect==why does he throw the ball to a player behind the line of scrimmage instead of down field??

Please, $$$ are riding on your answers...thanks...

Because, he was told to run that play and not audiable any thing or at anytime since that's how Kubiak runs things.This wasn't because Carr wasn't capable of calling but that's how Kubiak's system works.

 

[tsip]

Because, he was told to run that play and not audiable any thing or at anytime since that's how Kubiak runs things.This wasn't because Carr wasn't capable of calling but that's how Kubiak's system works.

Carr has been dumping his entire career...because his coach won't let him throw the ball down the field??

Petdy, the Texans could sign a minimum pay hs or jc player to 'toss' the ball 10 feet ( not yds), even under handed--why pay Carr $8 million ($45 mil over his career? Folks,...still got some prime land for sale in those lucious 'swamp' lands for that dream house...get those lots while they're HOT!!!

 

[QB75]

Carr has been dumping his entire career...because his coach won't let him throw the ball down the field??

Petdy, the Texans could sign a minimum pay hs or jc player to 'toss' the ball 10 feet ( not yds), even under handed--why pay Carr $8 million ($45 mil over his career? Folks,...still got some prime land for sale in those lucious 'swamp' lands for that dream house...get those lots while they're HOT!!!

A high school or JC player. Really. Great argument.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

A high school or JC player. Really. Great argument.

You really don't get that there's a fairly large contingent of people on this MB that really think that Carr isn't even good enough to be considered a bad quarterback. TSIP is probably one of the more virulent of these and has been for awhile; back in the pre-season, I used to have knock down drag-out arguments with him over whether Carr should start.

Unfortunately, over the course of the past season, I've joined him in the belief that Carr won't ever be a good quarterback.

 

[tsip]

A high school or JC player. Really. Great argument.

Yes, it is a good arguement. If, you as the HC (man in charge) are only going to have your QB throw the ball 3 yds (hoping for big YAC #'s), why are you going to 'tie' up $8 mil in cap money to do something you can get done for minimum wage?

To most people, McNair is not paying Carr 'top' money to dink and dunk...but,then-to some pepople-he is. If your defending Carr or another poster, you're going to be in shock when we finally get a QB here that can 'exist and function' in a verticle passing game.

 

[tsip]

Here's Schein's point of view:

link

My first thought after reading this...

Even if his premise is right, I don't see how financially it can make sense to have a three way competition with Plummer, Carr and Rosenfels.

I am guessing that if the Texans pull the plug on Carr, there are things that he is doing that they don't think are fixable. They wouldn't say the details of what those things publicly because that would diminish his value, and take out his knees in case we would have to keep him.

JMO, but this is one of your best post! There are so many question marks about Carr's play that we'll never know.

One puzzle piece that always amazes me is the thought process on the team amongst the coaching staff and the's about the OL. In a recent poll of players we need to get the most to 'upgrade' our team, the 's didn't even mention the OL--nor has the team drafted for the OL in the 1st round, maybe once in the 2nd?...what's up with this??

 

[Heath Shuler]

You really don't get that there's a fairly large contingent of people on this MB that really think that Carr isn't even good enough to be considered a bad quarterback. TSIP is probably one of the more virulent of these and has been for awhile; back in the pre-season, I used to have knock down drag-out arguments with him over whether Carr should start.

Unfortunately, over the course of the past season, I've joined him in the belief that Carr won't ever be a good quarterback.

It is a hard realization to accept. You want your team to be successful. You hope you will see something from Carr that would make you to believe he has what it takes to lead our team. However, all you get is unmet expectations.

 

[thunderkyss]

Here's Schein's point of view:

link

My first thought after reading this...

Even if his premise is right, I don't see how financially it can make sense to have a three way competition with Plummer, Carr and Rosenfels.

I am guessing that if the Texans pull the plug on Carr, there are things that he is doing that they don't think are fixable. They wouldn't say the details of what those things publicly because that would diminish his value, and take out his knees in case we would have to keep him.

In truth...... I think dumping Carr is the wrong thing.

You know I'm high on Vince Young, and it is my belief that he will do great things NFL.

We passed on that.

They better fix David Carr, & if they can't, they better try harder. dumping him after one year doesn't seem like they are trying very hard. Benching him against Tennessee(when he had multiple fumbles against Indy & Washington, then none against Miami, & Dallas)........ that didn't make a lot of sense to me.

Then you've got the most sacked QB in NFL history of any 5 year period, and you don't teach him to play out of the shotgun. How long does it take to teach someone to take the snap out of the gun.

& if you're not going to use the shotgun, at least put 4 & 5 wide recievers. if they blitz, someone is definitely open, & that someone can get some big yards in a hurry.


Now, just so no one gets the wrong idea....... I do not think David should start for the Texans in September. He needs to be the #2 QB from training camp, and earn the starting position during the season. If I had my way, he would be a true back up, meaning the only way he can play on Sunday, is if Sage gets hurt. & when he comes into the game, he's got to make it a tough decision to put a healthy Rosenfels back out there(Kinda like what happened to Huard & Green, or Batch & Rothlisberger in '06. Or Gerard & Leftwhich in '05).

& forget Plummer. He's a basket case. If he can't do anything without Kubiak, then he's nothing special...... nothing worth paying for anyway. Better than Carr...... but Carr's our mistake, Jake isn't.

 

[AustinJB]

News Flash...jake Plummer Is No Better Than What We Already Have.

: Between the ears, yes Plummer is much better than what we already have.

 

[thunderkyss]

Carr's base for 2007 is $5.25 mil but his cap hit with prorated bonus would be $7.25 so take Jake at full price for $5.3 mil plus a $4 mil cap hit for Carr and it basically costs $2 mil of cap space to make the exchange. Keep in mind, the Texans could explore a renegotiation with Plummer as part of the trade talks, i.e. trade doesn't go through unless Plummer agrees to a renegotiated contract with a lower base.

as far as I know....... there is no trade for Plummer talks..... I'm thinking he'll be cut, and we'll negotiate a deal with him.

If we designate Carr as a June 1st cut, we can cut him now, and only take a $2mil cap hit.

IF we sign Jake to a $3 mil '07 salary, with a $6 million bonus over 3 years, then his cap hit would be $5 mil........ plus David's $2mil, and we're looking at a $7mil hit for a Starting QB in '07.

Jake's Salary can go to $4mil next year, plus the $2mil prorated bonus, plus David's $2mil, and we'll take an $8mil hit in '08....... the same thing we'd take if David stayed for the 3rd year of the extension.

Jake's Salary can then go to $5 mill, with a $2mil roster bonus, plus the $2mil prorated bonus, and we'll take a $9mil cap hit in '09.

That's a $20mil for a three year stint. Jake ought to be happy with that. I'd be happy with that.

NO more of a cap hit for the QB position than we'd take if David stayed and played like the probowler we thought he would be. The Texans ought to be happy with that.

 

[GP]

Carr may be the next Kenny Stabler, but most Texans fans want to start over, not just of his play, but because he symbolizes the old Dom Caper Texans. He and the city of Houston need a fresh start.

And so what happens when Kubiak, years later, is run out of town? Jake Plummer will need to be let go, too, because he symbolizes the past with Kubiak and Smith?

News flash: We're fans. McNair doesn't make decisions based on what you want to see and what you need to never see again (as you described in your post).

Fans follow teams, they don't run them.

 

[thunderkyss]

Your right.. Carr should have made the game saving tackle on Vince's run at the end of the game. Heck, where was he. Carr really hurt the defense that game.

IF we had a starting QB on the team, we would have gone for the touchdown, to win it in regulation, and not the field goal to force OT.

Another way to look at that is everyone in the stadium is expecting pass. Cross 'em up with the run .... it's done all the time and done successfully. Had it been successful, Kubiak would have gotten props.

Also, IIRC, that was a time in the game when Tennessee had seized momentum and by kicking the FG, the Texans at least guaranteed themselves OT.

uh.......... it was 3rd & 8. We were in Kris Brown's sweet spot. take a shot at the endzone......... as long as it isn't a dumb pass, or a QB fumble, we still could have got the FG, and gone into OVertime. We're talking about throwing on third, not going for it on forth.

Exactly. If you were at the game you know that the defense lost it. Not Carr.

everyone in my section knew we lost it when we went for the field goal because we didn't trust our QB with the ball.

 

[mexican_texan]

And so what happens when Kubiak, years later, is run out of town? Jake Plummer will need to be let go, too, because he symbolizes the past with Kubiak and Smith?

News flash: We're fans. McNair doesn't make decisions based on what you want to see and what you need to never see again (as you described in your post).

Fans follow teams, they don't run them.

You say that like you assume Plummer will be here for years...

 

[The Pencil Neck]

And so what happens when Kubiak, years later, is run out of town? Jake Plummer will need to be let go, too, because he symbolizes the past with Kubiak and Smith?

Well, jeez, I don't think anyone's expecting any of the FA's that might be brought in to replace Carr (Plummer, Garcia, Huard, or whoever) to last for more than a couple of years until we can seriously upgrade the position either through the draft, through free agency in a couple of years when a bigger name players comes available (and hopefully we're more attractive to free agents), or through grooming a young player we might already have.

Plummer's probably close to the end of his starting years and he should only be brought in if he gives us a better chance to win for the next year or so. Personally, I think in terms of production, he will be a major upgrade over Carr but he'll make a whole different set of mistakes and break our hearts in a whole different set of ways.

I just watched the Browns game over again a couple of days ago and it's hard for me to look at how badly Carr played in that game and not think that bringing in someone and just letting them hand off the ball and not even throw would be an improvement. And that was a better game than the one against the Raiders.

 

[TexHorns]

If Plummer gets sacked 50 times, it will be because the line is bad, not because he is making mental mistakes..

Then he will get sacked fifty times. Good thing he wasnt on last years team. Also, people forget to take into consideration the lack of a consistant running game and how that affects an offense. IMO, this last year the line did improved in pass protection, it was the loss of DD killed us. Most of the time nobody had to respect the run. I dont know if the stats reflect this but I remember too many critical 3rd and longs. I am not too big on drafting a QB this year and I dont like Plummer so I say let Carr stay another year and compete with Sage R. There are plenty of positions they need to upgrade besides QB. It wouldnt hurt my feelings if Carr stays another year, Plummer retires in Denver and the Texans upgrade their RB, DB's and lines.

 

[HOU-TEX]

A high school or JC player. Really. Great argument.

His younger brother looks more poised in the pocket than he does. Derek(I think that's his name) had a playoff game at The Rig (Pearland Stadium) and looked much smarter with the ball than David ever has during his pro career. David was up in the press box watching the game. I wish I could've been in there. "So, how does it make you feel that your younger brother is already out playing you in High School?"