Right now it appears BG & BO'b are doubling down on last year's plan. A healthy Kelemete, Fulton, & Henderson is the fix.
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2019 Texans free agency
- Thread starter powda
- Start date
Right now it appears BG & BO'b are doubling down on last year's plan. A healthy Kelemete, Fulton, & Henderson is the fix.
Texansballer74
The Marine
And you don't think it could also be a coaching issue. I highly doubt ownership is telling them to go cheap when it comes to protecting it franchise QB.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Easy to believe it's talent and coaching.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Steelb wants to absolve OB & Gaine. But it makes no sense for owners to direct money not be spent on OL.
And even with the same money better free agents could have been brought in. What the owners are directing OB & Gaine to select and coach poorly too?
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Yep.....not quite the typical white found on an old turd but a 5 year old turd with a little powdered sugar on the tip.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
You know steelbtexan, I'm a major supporter in building the trenches and I think or should I say, hope Gaine prioritizes fixing the OL through the draft.
If Gaine does land some top talent for the OL and somehow Devlin doesn't coach these guys up and the OB offense fails to deliver......then it's pink slip time in my mind, for the whole ducking group. 6 years of no real improvement shouldn't cut it for any NFL owner and many just don't accept it. I fully expect to see a list of teams who kept mediocre HC's around for 6 years......how many of those mediocre coaches won a SB?
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Man I didn't want to like this post but based on this off-season I'm guessing it has to be OB convincing Gaine that a healthy offense was the only missing ingredient last season. I hope Gaine is willing to risk his employment by going with OB recommendations. I just can't imagine the convincing is the other way around.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
I cannot believe they are doubling down on last years talent. If you watch what they are doing, they are getting younger and more athletic in the defensive backfield, finally fixed backup QB, looks like Grifffin finally gets walking papers. We all know RB is fixable via the draft and not always rd1 and rd2. So based on what I have seen, they are going value approach and did not see the value in the OL free agents, but like the draft. NOw if they ignore OL in the draft, then I get out the pitchfork and have no idea what they are thinking. We still need OL, RB, DLine push at a minimum, would like another CB too. Gaine is playing a longer game then some of us have patience for because we believe the window is when Watson is cheap. I think I see some of the logic in his plans to build the team the way he wants to and I think we can agree he has done a fair job in wading through issues in the D back end, TE, QB so let's watch the offseason develop
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Osweiler was looking like a legit starter as well, green as all hell but the protentional was there. Kubiak benched him because at that point what he wanted was a game manager who would let the defense win it for them because they had that kind of defense. Manning was not only better at doing that but was willing because he knew this was his last shot at another ring and all he cared about was winning, Osweiler wanted to show what he could do.
Also they HAD to sign a QB in F/A. After the Hoyer meltdown and Hopkins expressing his shall we say displeasure on the field they had no choice they had to make a change at the QB position. I think even then they didn't think Savage was going to be the guy, why they kept him if that was the case I don't know, and there was no one in the draft we could have gotten. To draft a QB that year would have cost us far more than Oz did. So F/A it was and there was only one QB in F/A that, at that time, looked like he was worth a damn.
They've had the same issues thru 2 different GM's/HC's.
They've had the same issues thru 2 different GM's/HC's.
It's yr 2 with BOB's guy. I'm willing to give them next yr to add talent and get experience and 2 yrs from now if they aren't true contenders then fire all of them.
So osweiler couldn't do the easiest job for a QB, be a game manager for a great defense, because he wanted to sling the ball around and show he's a star. Not the guy I would bank the franchise on
Cousins was also available in 2016.
Goff and Wentz would have cost a lot in trading up, but Dak went in the 4th round.
Obrien has had the same issues. The defense has been fine. Kubiak also built much better offenses
It's a dumb head coach issue here
The defense hasn't been fine.
Did you watch the playoff game?
Did you see how QB's they're going to be facing next yr.
Do you really think Bradley F'n Roby is part of the answer to solving these issues?
Yes the defense was pretty good most of the year. There's a difference between being bad sometimes and sucking 90% of the time like the offense did. Top 10 defense according to PFF and football outsiders
I don't know if Roby will work out but at least they made moves to address the biggest need. The offense has not addressed ol at all.
Exactly. Ergo the Texans do not make FO personnel decisions based on performance. Ergo we sound stupid when we keep suggesting Ricky was fired due to poor performance & even dumber when we suggest BO'bs presence is confirmation that Bob McNair agrees with our delusion.
On the one hand we're saying the Mcnair's think like we do. On the other hand they have no clue how to run an NFL team.
While the rest of us are thinking both statements are true.
Yet the offense scored the 2nd most points in franchise history.
The defense well, I think being bad sometimes is being very selective. If you mean bad EVERY time they faced a competent QB then I would agree with you on this too.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Actually yeah that is kind of the guy you want to bank the franchise on. You want a QB that wants you to give him the ball and win the game. Kraft tells the story that the first time he met Brady was right after he had been drafted and showed up to practice. Brady was holding a pizza he had stopped to pick up, shook his hand and said congratulations you just made the best decision ever for your team by drafting me. Here was a guy that had gone in the 6th round and was drafted because 1 scout was high on him saying that basically he was going to be the best QB the Pats ever had.
Cousins was tagged by Redskins, to get him would have cost 2 first round picks plus whatever Cousins price tag would be. Considering we were looking to build a new offense at that point Cousins wasn't worth those two 1st.
As far as Dak goes so what if he was there in the 4th. We had already signed Oz by that point so why draft another QB when we still had Savage as a backup and now we had our starter.
What I've been saying since 2010 is the McNair's dont care as long as they keep making bank and getting to hang with the socialite crowd is more important than putting a winning product on the field.
The offense was like 20th in offensive points in the league. Your cherry picked stat includes defensive points, overtime, great field position, and offensive inflation in the league.
The defense was a top 10 defense compared to other defense. All defense give up more points to great QBs, that's why they are great QBs.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Anyone who remotely followed football knew who Oz was..probably more so than Schaub really. Just say YOU didn’t know who he was and you would be correct b/c you seem to be the only person who didn’t know of him.
Schaub wasn’t “always” in trade rumors until the trade he was dealt to us either. The deal actually kind of came out of nowhere & the only reason the trade made any kind of waves in the media at all is b/c of how much it was viewed we overpaid for him given what he’d accomplished to that point in his career, & how much draft capital the Falcons recieved from us was going to help them re-tool.
But keep on with your revisionist history.
Half of the garbage u use to talk has been debunked so many times, I don’t even know why I respond to your posts...worst poster on this board.
It's one thing to have confidence, it's another thing to be stupid. Brady was fine being a game manager his first few years in the league.
They should have not traded for Osweiler at all and taken a QB in the draft is the point. They also could have drafted Garropolo instead of XSF.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Top 10 defense that always seemed to get smoked when facing top qb play.
Yes, everyone knew Oz wasn't that good. Somehow O'Brien, Rick and the entire Texans fanbase thought this guy with mediocre tape who was put in an easy situation and was benched for a skeleton would be the franchise QB.
Schaub also showed far more when he played in place of Vick.
And false on Schaub, many teams tried to trade for Schaub. Here's one example:
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...ike-hell-to-bring-qb-matt-schaub-to-new-york/
"
Former Jets coach Eric Mangini 'tried like hell' to bring QB Matt Schaub to New York
Well, this is depressing: In 2006, three years before the Jets traded up in the first round to take Mark Sanchez and two years before bringing Brett Favre to New York, then-coach Eric Mangini really wanted quarterback Matt Schaub."
You mean top QBs tend to do well because...they are top QBs?
It's funny that you will criticize literally everyone except the HC.
-Defense is top 10: "Meh, remember that one game the secondary looked bad against Andrew Luck?"
-Watson plays pro bowl level his first two years: "Meh, he holds onto the ball 0.3 seconds too long and took a couple extra sacks."
-The McNairs actually do spend almost all the cap (required to spend 89% of it) and let the coaches trade picks like drunk gamblers: "Cletus is cheap."
-Clowney dominates the run game: "Trade him for an average, overpaid OL."
-Special teams looks great: "They gave up a big return."
Then Bungler No'Brain is literally terrible at every facet of being an NFL head coach except "motivating" professional adult players who don't need motivation, and it's: "Let's give him 5 more years and a full complement of picks with alignment with his hand-picked GM, fix the OL, get a new OC and new OL coach and then we can properly judge O'Bungler on whether he's a good coach."
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Again what QB were they suppose to take in the draft? We weren't getting Goff or Wentz, it was not going to happen, they went 1 and 2 because the Eagles and Rams needed a QB just as bad as we did. Didn't Help that the Tits had the number 1 overall and they weren't about to help us get better at QB.
So other than those two who else was there that they could have made the starter as a rookie? Dak, Garropolo, that's using hindsight and not very good hindsight at that as neither one of them have lit the world on fire. Think of how worse they would be if the couldn't have rode the bench and learned from Romo and Brady. Also, again, in the later rounds why draft a QB at all, they already had their starter and backup by the time of the draft.
This boils down to you didn't like the Osweiler signing and you are basing it all on hindsight. Go back to 2016 and Osweiler had by far a better chance of being a franchise QB than any of the QBs in the draft except Goff or Wentz who, again, we were not going to get.
Talk about cherry picking stats.
Yes, comparing the offense in 2018 vs other offenses in 2018 vs league offenses in 2009 or whatever and taking out defensive TDs is "cherry picking"
I don't think it's hindsight at all. A lot of people wanted Garoppolo (he did go in the 2nd round to the Pats after all) and a lot of people were laughing about that Osweiler contract. Dak was a tougher one, but I remember him rising the draft boards.
And isn't that the QB gurus job? To identify the good QB talent not to just throw money around and hope?
No one says it's easy. But if you're getting paid millions to be a head coach you shouldn't make such disastrous decisions at the QB position on a regular basis.
I'm not criticizing anybody but ownership. The reason I criticized the former GM was that he was very poor drafting as his record indicates and had absolutely no concept of roster building.
As far as Gaine goes I haven't criticized him yet because the jury is still out. BOB could improve on things like clock mgmt, some in game decisions and being too conservative at times. But coaxing 11 wins out of the team he had last yr with the talent he had (Good god he had Davenport/Lamm as his starting OT's and 2 UDFA WR's starting/playing in a playoff game) I think he did a pretty good job last yr and certainly isn't as bad as you make him out to be.
Is he the best HC in the league? Nope, ut he's far from the worst and considering what should be an influx of talent thru the draft I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do next yr. If we're having this same discussion next yr then we can talk.
But scoring the 2nd most points in franchise history with that group I just dont see how you can be as critical of BOB as you are and I dont care if they finished 20th in the league in scoring.
The biggest problem with the Texans is ownership. I've been saying this since 2010 and will continue to do so until they show they even care about winning. (They've failed to do so again this offseason IMHO) Anytime you get p!ssed about BOB remember who brought BOB to Kirby.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
On this we can agree.
To be honest I think it was mostly a Smith decision but I'm not excusing BoB, I think it was a Smith decision because Hoyer, Mallet and Savage were all BoB decisions. In my head, and totally in my head, I can see McNair watching the meltdown that was Hoyer in the playoffs and telling Smith to un-F this mess and get a damn QB no matter what. Frankly if I had been in Smith's position I don't know that I would have consulted BoB either.
So once you adjust for the fact that he stupidly chose to go with Davenport and Lamm as his OL cornerstones, use weird stats like "points in franchise history" when the league has changed, and give him credit for the defense, give him time to learn basic things like in-game decisions, then he looks like a decent coach.
Does every team in the NFL score defensive TD's and where do the Texans relate in terms with the rest of the league with defensive TD's scored. I dont think they had an abnormal amount of defensive TD's scored. You can look this up if you wish.
But since the Texans inception they scored the 2nd most points in franchise history last yr (Almost 1st) so you're the one doing the cherrypicking whether you realize this or not.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You're the one engaging in revisionism. Schaub sprang into national awareness when he hung 298 yds, 3 TDs, 0 Ints on NE in 2005. Atlanta received mutlipe offers prior to the 2006 season. In 2006 there were fan rumblings in Atlanta about starting Schaub over Vick whose 160 ypg @ 74 QB rating passing wasn't cutting it anymore. There were a number of reports Atlanta was only willing to trade Schaub to cut off the budding controversy.
It's possible that O'Brien sort of "had to go along with" Osweiler after his bringing in Hoyer and Mallet to terrible results. One journalist (forgot who it was) said he was initially skeptical of Brock then eventually came around to the idea. It was probably Rick's idea in the first place. I buy that story. Either way I think he's not really good at this whole building an offense thing.
My point is O'Brien should be judged on offensive points scored compared to offenses in 2018 not a decade ago, and by that metric he was not a top 10 offensive coach, but Crennel was a top 10 defensive coach.
You can keep digging and say he scored more points than every offense in 1955 or whatever but I won't be impressed.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I think it was a combo of all 3. After 2013 McNair had said QB would get fixed. RS met OB and found him intractable on rookies so deferred and went with OB/NE vets while drafting a clone to develop. After 3 years McNair said stop fu@king around and fix this. Still with OB's vet preference in mind RS got the "best" vet, Oz. That flopes so then RS went rookie. So McNair was involved to the level of 'get the damn QB fixed.' RS was trying to find an OB guy. OB didn't make that worked. So RS went, 'screw it we're taken the best QB we can afford in the draft.'
He didn't choose, there were no upgrades once Solder picked the NYG's and they didn't have the draft capital to get a franchise LT in the draft, he had to go with what he had.
Yes, the league has changed, but if you want me to cherrypick a stat for you how about this one? There were 2 of the best offenses in the NFL in the SB and the score was 13-3. If the Texans were in the SB and scored 3 freakin points like McVay's offense did with much more talent than the Texans offense could ever think about having you would be screaming bloody murder and calling for BOB's head even more than you already are. (If that's possible)
The point behind this is the NFL despite all of the rules changes hasn't really changed as much as you think it has. Tell me what was he score the last time the Jags/Tacks played and we can discuss how much the NFL has changed. #I'mcherrypicking
Oh, I'm quite sure you wont be impressed by anything BOB does, if including starting 0-3 (Much of his own doing) and LEADING the team back to 11 wins doesn't impress you nothing will. There I go cherrypicking more stats.
I believe this to be the case, but I certainly dont think BOB said Os is my guy to RS and RS went out and got OS. If that's the case BOB wouldn't still be here. IMHO
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I think it was classic collaboration with RS saying 'if you want a vet still then Oz is best available' and OB saying 'OK then let's do it.'
Then OB shoul've/would've been let go too for that decision.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The fallacy of this continued argument is neither was let go.
RS WAS NOT FIRED. ASK HIS DEAD WIFE.
Not my point
My point is BOB would've/should've been fired if he was a part of that decision as should have RS been fired also and that's got nothing to do with his dead wife.
BTW, Why didn't they save RS spot. It's a pretty cold org to not let a guy come back to his job after taking care of his sick/dying wife.
banned1976
sleeper mode
The only thing I strongly disagree with in this back and forth circle jerk is this notion one person is responsible for every failure of this organization.
Everyone is responsible for the mediocrity that has plagued this franchise. From ownership to the players. Some have performed better than others but so what? We as fans can choose to watch them or not. The whining on this board, before the draft even is redundant. Not every team is going to “win free agency” and winning free agency amounts to nothing. Look back to last season and tell me who the ultimate winners were and how much they spent in free agency 2018.
Everyone is responsible for the mediocrity that has plagued this franchise. From ownership to the players. Some have performed better than others but so what? We as fans can choose to watch them or not. The whining on this board, before the draft even is redundant. Not every team is going to “win free agency” and winning free agency amounts to nothing. Look back to last season and tell me who the ultimate winners were and how much they spent in free agency 2018.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
No team is going to go without a GM for an indeterminate time period & no worthwhile GM is going to come in on 'annual until RS comes back' contracts.
zshawn10
All Pro
The #Texans are signing QB and special teamer Joe Webb back on a 1-year deal worth $1M, source said.
— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) March 21, 2019
— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) March 21, 2019
Hey, there was also a low scoring game one time. Therefore OBrien is a good offensive coach or something.
Trent brown was available for a third round pick last year. And the Texans had two. The problem is obrien cannot identify value talent like that. He thinks seantrel is that
They kept Rick over kubiak. their track record in building the front office is not good