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Injury Thread

needs to avoid any weight bearing stuff during OTAs.
With Cunningham, I see surgery likely in his future. The more an elite player plays through pain of a non surgically corrected Jones stress fracture, the more chance for completion of the fracture and/or compensatory injury.
 
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With Cunningham, I see surgery likely in his future. The more an elite player plays through pain of a non surgically corrected Jones stress fracture, the more chance for completion of the fracture and/or compensatory injury.
I'm confused..which is easy to do..Cunningham has Jones?
 
With Cunningham, I see surgery likely in his future. The more an elite player plays through pain of a non surgically corrected Jones stress fracture, the more chance for completion of the fracture and/or compensatory injury.
Would you consider it more prudent to go ahead with the surgery ASAP and have him ready for the majority of training camp?
 
I'm confused..which is easy to do..Cunningham has Jones?
Reports have not been specific, but this is invariably the most common stress fracture of the foot proper, and many times at first can have minimal symptoms with the player just feeling some foot soreness they think little of. If stress fractures do manage to heal without surgery (usually over 8-12 weeks, a good portion of that being non weightbearing), they will commonly refracture, because the same overuse mechanisms that caused the fracture to begin with will still be there when the athlete returns to play...........and without surgery the bone will remain unreinforced. The history of the Jones stress fracture is interesting as it was first described in the mid 1800's as “march fractures” associated with soreness. The fractures were closely associated with the marching of soldiers. In the late 1800's, x-ray appearance in military recruits forced to go on long marches, established the association between these stress fractures and overuse.
 
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Would you consider it more prudent to go ahead with the surgery ASAP and have him ready for the majority of training camp?
Without seeing the x-rays, I would have to say that in general that would be a prudent approach. However, I am sure that the Texans are concerned about him missing participation in preseason activities, where rookies are in there on the field learning the system and developing timing and chemistry. By the time you get to TC, it is hardly a good time to have your rookies exposed to the system for the first time. We can only hope that this is not another example of thinking short term in potential loss of longer term.
 
Without seeing the x-rays, I would have to say that in general that would be a prudent approach. However, I am sure that the Texans are concerned about him missing participation in preseason activities, where rookies are in there on the field learning the system and developing timing and chemistry. By the time you get to TC, it is hardly a good time to have your rookies exposed to the system for the first time. We can only hope that this is not another example of thinking short term in potential loss of longer term.
He would be able to attend the classroom portions and watch from the sideline during workouts. What would be the timeline for putting weight on his foot so that he could participate in walkthroughs? I mean we're not talking about contact at this point and the dude's been running the football for his entire life. He needs to learn protections and routes, but those can be studied pretty well.
 
He would be able to attend the classroom portions and watch from the sideline during workouts. What would be the timeline for putting weight on his foot so that he could participate in walkthroughs? I mean we're not talking about contact at this point and the dude's been running the football for his entire life. He needs to learn protections and routes, but those can be studied pretty well.
Non weight bearing would typically be anywhere from 6-8 weeks, depending on x-ray findings. He would then be eased into walking, etc. Full go would likely not occur before 12 weeks. Having spoken to several NFL RBs over the years, I can safely say that even the veterans will tell you that putting in the time for gaining timing and chemistry are of the utmost importance in preparation for live bullet action.......and you don't get that in a walkthrough or even a jogthrough.
 
Non weight bearing would typically be anywhere from 6-8 weeks, depending on x-ray findings. He would then be eased into walking, etc. Full go would likely not occur before 12 weeks. Having spoken to several NFL RBs over the years, I can safely say that even the veterans will tell you that putting in the time for gaining timing and chemistry are of the utmost importance in preparation for live bullet action.......and you don't get that in a walkthrough or even a jogthrough.
I'd make a lousy team doctor but I would think it's just as hard to build or rebuild that chemistry while on IR or in the training room. That old cliché of not making the club from the tub. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I'd like to see Grimes featured over Blue if Foreman goes down.
 
Reports have not been specific, but this is invariably the most common stress fracture of the foot proper, and many times at first can have minimal symptoms with the player just feeling some foot soreness they think little of. If stress fractures do manage to heal without surgery (usually over 8-12 weeks, a good portion of that being non weightbearing), they will commonly refracture, because the same overuse mechanisms that caused the fracture to begin with will still be there when the athlete returns to play...........and without surgery the bone will remain unreinforced. The history of the Jones stress fracture is interesting as it was first described in the mid 1800's as “march fractures” associated with soreness. The fractures were closely associated with the marching of soldiers. In the late 1800's, x-ray appearance in military recruits forced to go on long marches, established the association between these stress fractures and overuse.
Thanks was unaware he had any injury. Did know about Foreman
 
Re. Treston Decoud

The Texans continue to collect high injury risk players. The "scary neck injury" referred to in the article posted above was not a neck injury..........it was a very serious concussion (Nov 2015)...........he laid on the field several minutes knocked out cold and not moving any of his limbs after he collided with a teammates helmet, even after placed on the stretcher to be taken to the hospital. It wasn't until he was admitted to the hospital did he have return of movement. And this was only one in a series of concussions that this young man had sustained. This history, along with his rather poor coverage skill, were the reasons teams stayed away from drafting him, as he could be one hit away from having to find another profession.
 
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-texans-reportedly-agree-with-udfa-joe-mathis/

PFF had this guy as highest rated UFA, and had his pass rush productivity at 2nd in the nation last year.

There is a definite reason that a player that was early on projected as a late 2nd / early 3rd round pick drops to UDFA status. So why did it probably happen to Joe Mathis? Because after a great first half of the 2016 season, he missed the second half of the season to a foot injury which required surgery. His injury was not reported except as a foot injury that required surgery. As it turns out, it appears that he has sustained a severe Grade III complete turf toe disruption. Most of these are repaired simply by soft tissue repair of the involved capsular structures. Although it appears that his reconstruction included the use of 2 screws, which indicates an arthrodesis (fusion) of the joint (a 6-16 week return to play). This is a procedure that is usually reserved as a salvage procedure only to be used in the worst cases. It implies that there is total instability of the joint, serious damage to the cartilage of the joint and/or severe pain in the joint from even walking.......many times from the chronic rubbing arthritic condition of the weak joint. Whatever the indication for such an operation, the joint and mobility will be likely permanently affected............i.e., push off, acceleration, stopping, jumping and cutting., We will not see exactly how much of player we have now compared to the player he was preinjury............but it is unlikely to be the same...........and 10-15% of those undergoing this procedure will continue to experience permanent debilitating pain.

Turf toe has put an end to many an NFL player. Here are just of few from a 5 year old article.........and none from what I can remember ever underwent fusion during their playing career.:

What is Turf Toe? 12 NFL Greats Who Have Been Grounded by Turf Toe

By Albert Costill
Posted on January 6, 2012
 
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There is a definite reason that a player that was early on projected as a late 2nd / early 3rd round pick drops to UDFA status. So why did it probably happen to Joe Mathis? Because after a great first half of the 2016 season, he missed the second half of the season to a foot injury which required surgery. His injury was not reported except as a foot injury that required surgery. As it turns out, it appears that he has sustained a severe Grade III complete turf toe disruption. Most of these are repaired simply by soft tissue repair of the involved capsular structures. Although it appears that his reconstruction included the use of 2 screws, which indicates an arthrodesis (fusion) of the joint (a 6-16 week return to play). This is a procedure that is usually reserved as a salvage procedure only to be used in the worst cases. It implies that there is total instability of the joint, serious damage to the cartilage of the joint and/or severe pain in the joint from even walking.......many times from the chronic rubbing arthritic condition of the weak joint. Whatever the indication for such an operation, the joint and mobility will be likely permanently affected............i.e., push off, acceleration, stopping, jumping and cutting., We will not see exactly how much of player we have now compared to the player he was preinjury............but it is unlikely to be the same...........and 10-15% of those undergoing this procedure will continue to experience permanent debilitating pain.

Turf toe has put an end to many an NFL player. Here are just of few from a 5 year old article.........and none from what I can remember ever underwent fusion during their playing career.:

What is Turf Toe? 12 NFL Greats Who Have Been Grounded by Turf Toe

By Albert Costill
Posted on January 6, 2012
Sounds like what ended Deion Sanders career.
 
Thanks in advance for clearing things up.

The dialog string starts with D'Onta Foreman and his "slight stress fracture of the foot". And then morphs into a discussion of Cunningham and stress fractures and then morphs again into turf toe.

My point of interest has been Foreman, but does Cunningham have an injury? And who has turf toe?
(Edit) Joe Mathis, UDFA, signed by Texans has turf toe.
 
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Thanks in advance for clearing things up.

The dialog string starts with D'Onta Foreman and his "slight stress fracture of the foot". And then morphs into a discussion of Cunningham and stress fractures and then morphs again into turf toe.

My point of interest has been Foreman, but does Cunningham have an injury? And who has turf toe?
(Edit) Joe Mathis, UDFA, signed by Texans has turf toe.
I apologize to everyone, as I accidentally said "Cunningham" had a turf toe in a previous post....whereas I meant Mathis (but I had just read a piece about Cunningham whose only problem was perceived level of strength). And Foreman was the player with the stress Jones fracture. Hope this clears everything up! :backsout:
 
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Mathis will be counseled to wear non-yielding foot orthotics to avoid having the turf toe hyperextended again. Athletes hate wearing these because they are universally uncomfortable and unnatural.........and have been found to impede performance. NFL players always prefer the lightest and most flexible footwear they can find.......and the shoe makers have accommodated they very well................a factor that has actually has encouraged the rise of this injury..............along with the replacement of grass with artificial surfaces................from which the condition Turf Toe was coined.
 
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No worries... I know you get busy, I was just trying to get it straight in my head.

Apparently you had a surgery yesterday, I didn't :) I haven't even stayed at a holiday inn express in years!
 
watson-deshaun121215-getty-ftrjpg_1hb64ppcfabkw1jf1zub1bxovq.jpg



EYE TELL YOU WHAT....................I BELIEVE THE EYES HAVE IT!!!!!!!!
 
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CloakNNNdagger your thoughts???

Rueben Foster’s offseason shoulder surgery was ineffective and the injury explains why the 49ers inside linebacker nearly slipped out of the first round of the NFL draft last week, ESPN reported.
 
CloakNNNdagger your thoughts???

Rueben Foster’s offseason shoulder surgery was ineffective and the injury explains why the 49ers inside linebacker nearly slipped out of the first round of the NFL draft last week, ESPN reported.

What if Foster knew he was damaged and got himself booted from the combine before it could be looked over good .
 
@CloakNNNdagger

Any news on Braxton Miller's health? Is he able to participate fully in offseason workouts? If healthy this offseason he can make a lot of improvement in a short time working with Welker entering his 3rd year playing WR on any level.
 
CloakNNNdagger your thoughts???

Rueben Foster’s offseason shoulder surgery was ineffective and the injury explains why the 49ers inside linebacker nearly slipped out of the first round of the NFL draft last week, ESPN reported.
Not knowing the exact nature of what failure" of his rotator cuff surgery was, makes a specific prognosis more difficult. But arthrocopic primary reconstruction results in ~90% success in general, but in reality depending on the size of the tear close to 20% "failure" in elite football players. Failure usually results from initial poor strength of reconstruction, poor tissue quality and/or inappropriate postoperative rehab. Conservative approach (rehab) of recurrent tears is not very good.......close to 50% failure rate. Reoperation can result in non-healing or retear in ~40% of cases, with tears progressing with time ~ 25% after 6 months and ~40% at 2 years. Conservative or surgical approach to failure of this type of surgery can result in a return to play anywhere from 4 months to 12 months. When you are talking about a primary repair of the rotator cuff mechanism that goes well, a study of NFL players revealed an average of 8 1/2 months to full recovery. You also need to keep in mind, that an inside LB will continue to repeatedly sustain significant trauma to his shoulders.
 
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@CloakNNNdagger

Any news on Braxton Miller's health? Is he able to participate fully in offseason workouts? If healthy this offseason he can make a lot of improvement in a short time working with Welker entering his 3rd year playing WR on any level.
No official word out there. But Braxton has already had TWO previous right shoulder labrum repairs in college 6 months apart. His recent injury that landed him on IR was also of his right shoulder. No 3rd surgery has been reported..........yet. But whether surgery was performed or not does not make for a promising future as a QB or a WR.
 
No official word out there. But Braxton has already had TWO previous right shoulder labrum repairs in college 6 months apart. His recent injury that landed him on IR was also of his right shoulder. No 3rd surgery has been reported..........yet. But whether surgery was performed or not does not make for a promising future as a QB or a WR.
complete waste of a pick IMO.
 
Not gonna call it a wasted pick

But it would be part of a long tradition of 3rd rd busts.

Nix/Montgomery just off of the top of my head.

Just Montgomery? We had 3 busts in that 3rd round his year! Trevardo Williams and Brennan Williams (Williams never played due to injury but still.. Texans medical staff!)
 
Lol, Dude is a wrestler now and goes by the name Marcellus Black.


A couple of months ago when his name came up, I looked up how his wrestling career was going. I found out it was going almost as well as his NFL career went.....................his record was 1 win and 11 losses. But I guess technically you could say that compared to his NFL stint, wrestling turned him into an overachiever.
 
If he lasts long at all in WWE he will probably end up with more injuries than if he been able to remain in the NFL..
 
If he lasts long at all in WWE he will probably end up with more injuries than if he been able to remain in the NFL..

He's still in the minor league, hasn't made it to the WWE yet

but yeah
 
Does he have a good shtick yet? I think that + being able to orate is what brings the $.

from the one video I watched (above) the looked like the hate child of Undertaker and Kamala without the shtick
 
If anyone had any thought of his return, Newton has been placed on the Physically Unable to Perform list.
He needs to focus on being able to walk the rest of his life & I hope he invested well his $ 15 million paid to him. He did good for himself for 7th round pick.

edit: dupe after long loading procedure.
 
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If anyone had any thought of his return, Newton has been placed on the Physically Unable to Perform list.

Did I hear someone (Maybe even OB) state that even though he was on track with his rehab at this point in time, there was no way he was going to be ready to play this year because the overall rehab was 12-18 months?

In other words, are we surprised that he was PUP'd?
 
Did I hear someone (Maybe even OB) state that even though he was on track with his rehab at this point in time, there was no way he was going to be ready to play this year because the overall rehab was 12-18 months?

In other words, are we surprised that he was PUP'd?

Recovery from a single patellar tendon rupture if a player can return is typically ~6 months, but return to pre injury performance if it occurs is not seen before 18 months. In 2011, a study concluded that ~80% of NFL players returned for at least some games. But an update 2016 study published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine, cataloging postoperative outcomes of orthopedic procedures in NFL players, found only 50 percent of players returned after having surgery on torn patellar tendons........and these were essentially unilateral ruptures. Unilateral patellar ruptures are very uncommon NFL injuries........bilateral rupture extremely rare. The NFL data base I believe only includes 2 or 3 players in total to have suffered a bilateral rupture. Remember, Newton already suffered a right patellar tendon rupture in 2013. Therefore, Newton finds himself in a class of one. His prognosis to return at any point, especially as a 300+ pounder would be nothing short of a miracle.
 
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Recovery from a single patellar tendon rupture if a player can return is typically ~6 months, but return to pre injury performance if it occurs is not seen before 18 months. In 2011, a study concluded that ~80% of NFL players returned for at least some games. But an update 2016 study published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine, cataloging postoperative outcomes of orthopedic procedures in NFL players, found only 50 percent of players returned after having surgery on torn patellar tendons........and these were essentially unilateral ruptures. Unilateral patellar ruptures are very uncommon NFL injuries........bilateral rupture extremely rare. The NFL data base I believe only includes 2 or 3 players in total to have suffered a bilateral rupture. Remember, Newton already suffered a right patellar tendon rupture in 2013. Therefore, Newton finds himself in a class of one. His prognosis to return at any point, especially as a 300+ pounder would be nothing short of a miracle.


Hard to blame players for seeking the best contract for themselves, often changing teams for more money.

It's a job. Mostly a short time to make the most they can.

Hope part of a players initial indoctrination into the league includes a comprehensive course in money management.

:coffee:
 
Hard to blame players for seeking the best contract for themselves, often changing teams for more money.

It's a job. Mostly a short time to make the most they can.

Hope part of a players initial indoctrination into the league includes a comprehensive course in money management.

:coffee:

Sadly, money management is no concern of "the shield". Honestly the NFL prefers players to have money problems because they will take a below market deal/extension quicker if they have outstanding debt. The more educated/questioning/disturbing the peace you are (Sherman/Borland) the less tolerance they have for you unless you play at an all pro level.

This is 32 men/families who get to play war once a Sunday with 53 pawns who to the every day man gets paid very well, but in reality 80% of these guys will be no better off then they were when they joined the league and will be out of the league in the average 3 years. And honestly, the owners "appreciate" the fans because you fund their billion dollar hobby.

See, we are important to them. The shield does it all for us.
:kitten:
 
Sadly, money management is no concern of "the shield". Honestly the NFL prefers players to have money problems because they will take a below market deal/extension quicker if they have outstanding debt. The more educated/questioning/disturbing the peace you are (Sherman/Borland) the less tolerance they have for you unless you play at an all pro level.

This is 32 men/families who get to play war once a Sunday with 53 pawns who to the every day man gets paid very well, but in reality 80% of these guys will be no better off then they were when they joined the league and will be out of the league in the average 3 years. And honestly, the owners "appreciate" the fans because you fund their billion dollar hobby.

See, we are important to them. The shield does it all for us.
:kitten:
If the NFL and NFLPA wanted to effectively teach players money management, players would have never agreed to the present CBA.
 
If the NFL and NFLPA wanted to effectively teach players money management, players would have never agreed to the present CBA.

I know this is the injury thread but I'll tie it all together I promise.

The current CBA was signed in part because the players couldn't afford a lockout. The owners had the players and the NFLPA bent over with incoming debt because of poor money management and everyone knew it. The pre-existing injury clauses in the current CBA are atrocious too.

The article you quoted earlier CND, by Nate Jackson former WR of the Broncos points to it all. Improper techniques to get these guys on the field. Ice and shock. Painkillers. "Supplements." Team doctors who are paid by the team give their opinion on the player, which has to be a conflict of interest, knows the team wants their asset on the war field. If the injury happens on their watch, **** they have to pay. If for any reason they have any evidence it was pre-existing, you are on your own.

These fringe guys get mauled and cut from the team with no way to pay for their injuries. Worse yet the player signs his statement at the end of the year giving the team the right to do it, because said player has no idea what he is signing. It's a big black book with all your medical history and everyone knows about it but you the player.

The whole NFL system is top heavy. Top markets, top owners, top players, top fans(most money to spend.) Everyone else and their needs gets washed by the current structure.
 
The Texans have signed veteran right offensive tackle Breno Giacomini. We're going to have a whole gaggle of back patients.............He sustained a low back injury early last preseason, starting the season on the physically unable to perform list trying to rehab his back. He was activated in October, and after only playing less than 5 games, sustained a significant re-injury of his back.........He was then placed on IR in December........and finally underwent a lumbar microdiscectomy the first week in January of this year. He was quickly released by the Jets in February.

Besides the above, be aware that he was also limited last year by a shoulder problem, and has already undergone knee surgery to repair ligament and cartilage damage........ and RIGHT elbow surgery, as he was probably signed to take the right tackle position, not a great endorsement. The most common elbow injury to a right tackle is a right ulnar collateral ligament tear (the ligament running along and stabilizing the inside of the elbow joint), which usually occurs when the arm is outstretched to the right to contain an outside rusher. In addition, it has been reported in some of the Jets reports that he has been a liability for years. He signed with the Jets as a free agent in 2014 and has been their starting right tackle since. But his production has declined over the years. In his first season with the Jets, Giacomini finished with a ProFootballFocus rating of 74.9. In 2015, he had a grade of 41, and in 2016 44.3............I'm so excited! He could surprise us and turn out to be a little better than a Derek Newton that tried to play this year.
 
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The Texans have signed veteran right offensive tackle Breno Giacomini.

Sounds like a stellar Texan

Or at least a lukewarm camp body

Better competition=better team is the going philosophy
 
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