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bah007 Updated Position Rankings - Offense
- Thread starter bah007
- Start date
Oh I wouldn't say thaaaat...
- Fran Tarkenton, Roger Staubach, Russell Wilson
I can understand that. Don't think he'll drop to the 3rd which is where I'd prefer him. How about Kaaya in the 3rd?
I would be one of those people. Though, I would prefer they get one of top 3 QB prospects. That's very unlikely, and Mahomes is right there with these guys as far as ability. The kid can get coached up, and the Texans have one of the top QB gurus. Right?
bah007
Hall of Fame
I have no idea where each would go. Personally, I don't have a 1st round grade on any of the QBs.
bah007
Hall of Fame
The ability is there. No question. Personally, I just don't predict a successful transition.
By this point, I think we can all agree that this myth has been busted.
But O'Brien turned Brady into a GOAT.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Yes he did. Who could have predicted the effect that sideline squabble would have on such a mediocre talent?
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Sorry, can you assign Kelly a draft grade?
Warning!!
Alternative Factoid Detected
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
For the life of me I do not get these comparisons.
When I watch Mahomes I don't see anything like Manziel. IMO, Mahomes is 10x the qb johnny was coming out and he could easily end up being the top guy in this class.
Mahomes actually sits in the pocket and makes throws in a timely manner most times. He actually steps up into the pocket instead of looking to bail when a throw isn't immediately available.
He only averaged 2 yards per rushing attempt. Besides designed runs the guy rarely starts running around creating a scramble drill situation. He throws the ball away and takes sacks instead of free lancing and trying to make crazy plays.
I really could not disagree with the manziel comparison more. They are just both mobile and need mechanic work coming out work but they play the position nothing alike.
bah007
Hall of Fame
See, as a UT fan I've watched him a ton. I've watched probably about 12 of his games. When I compare him to Manziel I'm talking about the backyard mentality, not necessarily running the ball. He doesn't stay inside the structure of the offense and improvises way too often when he doesn't need to. He has far better tools than Manziel. Not even close. I wouldn't have even entertained the idea of drafting Manziel. I could handle drafting Mahomes based on his skill set. I personally wouldn't but I get the draw. He has the tools.
I have seen Mahomes over and over again sit in the pocket too long and look right past open receivers. He doesn't look to bail early, but he sits there so long that he is eventually forced to bail. To his credit, he doesn't bail to run. He bails to buy time for a receiver to get open. But on a vast majority of these plays he already had a guy open and didn't see him.
He doesn't anticipate very well. He doesn't throw guys open, he waits until they are wide open to throw. To his credit, when he finally decided to throw it is a strike. He doesn't read defenses well. He looks right past open guys in his field of vision. He heaves up a ton of prayers when he had a five yard completion staring him in the face. To his credit, he has a cannon and he's accurate, so he completes more of those prayers than he probably should.
I don't like his mechanics. I don't like his footwork balance. He throws off of one foot way too often.
I see the easily projectable tools. He has size. He's accurate. He's got a huge arm. He's athletic. But none of that is any good if the other stuff isn't fixed.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
This is pretty much what I've seen. The thing that bothers me the most is him throwing off his back foot, sometimes while fading away and turning away from a hit. That just isn't going to work in the NFL and he did it often from what I saw. He looks scared to take a hit while in his throwing motion. QBs have to be willing to make a throw when they know they are going to get it afterward, and I saw a great deal of avoidance from him in that.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
No. I think 1 will be drafted and then most likely Weeden but possibly Savage will be gone.
badboy
Hall of Fame
thanks.
I still believe Osweiler will be gone.
Bob/Cal/Ricky McNair wont let that happen.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Gone this season increasing his cap from $19 m to 25? Other than opening roster spot, that would be financial lunacy, would it not?
You cut him June first, It's 19 million.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Yeah designating him early as a post June 1st cut would accomplish that. I'm still concerned team officials think they can improve him with another off season.
Number19
Hall of Fame
I think the first question to be asked is : how much will upper management influence the QB decision; and the second question is : how much pressure will be put on OB to win now?
In a combine media session, OB again mentions Weeden in the context of being on an equal level with Oz and Savage. Until he is actually released, he's part of the equation. The thing about Weeden is that we have absolutely no idea of the progress he has made in our system since last training camp.
I can see us drafting a QB and going into training camp with four QB's. What happens then may not be OB's decision.
badboy
Hall of Fame
My thought is Romo could go elsewhere (I'm still unsure if he is our "right now" even if he is healthy) Garoppolo may not want to play behind our Oline even if we get a starting RT. It seems almost daily another team above us has a need for QB. CBSSports.com has San Fran, Chi town and Buffalo going QB top ten. If Cleveland goes Garrett #1 as they should, strong odds would be going QB with #12 from Philly. It is possible Jets could go QB at #6.
If Kaaya has a great combine he could be in that mix. Will Smith spend #25 on a right tackle who could switch eventually to left?
If Kaaya has a great combine he could be in that mix. Will Smith spend #25 on a right tackle who could switch eventually to left?
I'm expecting to fill our RT with a starter in FA. I just can't imagine that not being priority number one.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I certainly hope so but ..whether in FA or draft they need to get it correct. For years they "got by" with a 7th rounder in Newton and whatever could stand up last season. Not sure if Smith sees RT as priority one. I can see him trying to find a better Clark and hope he can start
That would be very disappointing.
He has the physical gifts, but either he is stupid or lazy. He plays at 308, but intended to audition at 315. Now, he's 298 and says he will wait until Pro Day to perform - when he gets his weight back up .... reminds me of Nix.
In my mind, it's not just drafting a starting RT. It's drafting the guy who starts at RT now with the potential to move to LT when Duane Brown gets too old.
...you know, kind of planning for the future and all that sort of thing
Number19
Hall of Fame
Maybe #2FA priority, signing Bouye is #1. Also, signing Hopkins to an extension. A RT free agent is probably, overall, #3 on their mind. They have the draft to fall back on to address RT. Aside from Bouye and Hopkins, the organization has repeated stressed that QB and RT are their highest priorities. It would sure be advantageous to fix RT with a FA, freeing up 1-25 to draft a QB.
I Just got thru watching the Miami highlights and Johnson looked really good against them. Then I watched the Michigan highlights of Cook. Johnson had a really good game against 1st/2nd rd DE's Wormley and Charlton. Charlton got by Johnson a couple of times but Francios got rid of the ball. Most of Cooks big runs came behind Johnson.
It appears to me that Johnson is tall/athletic great run blocker who is good at pass pro but gets beat 2 or 3 times a game due to bad technique. He would definitely be an upgrade over Newton/Clark as a rookie. Johnson has tree limbs for arms and needs to get stronger.
I really would like to hear from TS/Bah on the technical aspects of Johnson's game but from what I've seen Johnson has the immediate ability to upgrade RT and if he gets stronger and plays with more focus he definitely be the LT of the future.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Honestly, I'm not really the guy to ask about OL stuff. Wish I could help more.
I would prefer a FA starter at RT and draft a Or that can play guard at a high level while training to be our future LT.
LT brown
LG
C Martin
RG cam Robinson
RT Ricky Wagner
Late round draft pick and everyone else fight it out for LG. That's a huge improvement over last year and nice infusion of young talent for the future.
You can say goodbye to bouye. He's gone.
It's not a good year to need offensive tackles. Many teams need offensive tackles.
The toxic potion of scarcity will allow the few solid veterans heading to the open market to hit the jackpot.
When it comes to the right tackle market it appears Baltimore Ravens' Ricky Wagner is this offseason's prize.
NFL Network's Mike Garafolo said Tuesday on Good Morning Football that Wagner is "going to blow the lid off the right tackle market."
Swiping out Lane Johnson's outlier contract -- he was paid as a future left tackle -- the top of the right tackle market is Green Bay Packers' Bryan Bulaga at $6.75 million per year. Last offseason the Chiefs signed Mitchell Schwartz to a five-year, $33 million contract, which averages $6.6 million per season.
According to Garafolo, Wagner will end up signing for more than $8 million per season.
The former fifth-round pick played exceedingly well in 2016, particularly as a pass blocker on the right side, after struggling in 2015. Since taking over the starting gig in his second season, the 27-year-old has missed just two games. Pro Football Focus ranked Wagner its 18th overall tackle (both left and right side) in 2016.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...icky-wagner-set-to-blow-the-lid-off-rt-market
***
If Wagner expects 8 M preseason, can we honestly afford that ?
Maybe if we make some rough cuts?? Not a cap expert but we have to get the right side fixed. We have too! Wagner is young and could possibly be your LT in the future. I would pay him 8 a year if that's what it took. Last time I looked we could get up to 41 million in cap space with cuts. At least I think that's what it was. It's been awhile. I could be wrong. Don't take my word on that.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
We can afford about $23.5M, after accounting for draft picks, to do what we want with once we cut Bergstrom and Clark. More if we can reach some kind of settlement with Newton. That's plenty of room to sign several top level OL, extend Hopkins, and re-sign guys like Simon and Demps.
Assuming Wagner gets $8M per season, you bump Hopkins up an additional $4M, you sign a top guard for $7M per season, and Simon and Demps each get $3M per season, you're at an additional $25M. You can play with the contracts to make that work. You could keep these guys initial cap hits low if you need extra money to fill gaps on the team with low value guys.
Assuming Wagner gets $8M per season, you bump Hopkins up an additional $4M, you sign a top guard for $7M per season, and Simon and Demps each get $3M per season, you're at an additional $25M. You can play with the contracts to make that work. You could keep these guys initial cap hits low if you need extra money to fill gaps on the team with low value guys.
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WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Wagner is about to get overpaid. He's strictly a RT and is likely going to be getting offers in the $8M range. For reference, Mitchell Schwartz is a superior RT to Wagner and he got $6.5M on the open market last year.
I'd throw my hat in there and see where negotiations go but if they go beyond $8M then I'm looking at Riley Reiff instead in the $5-6M range.
I'd throw my hat in there and see where negotiations go but if they go beyond $8M then I'm looking at Riley Reiff instead in the $5-6M range.
It's supply & demand and this is a lean year for OTs, both in FA and the Draft so that undersupply of OTs means guys in FA like Wagner can expect a premium for their services this year.
If the draft doesn't fall the way we want, or maybe the Texans management just doesn't prioritize our need at OT the way we all seem to do, which OT prospects 4th round or later do you like the most and what round?
Names I've seen batted around:
Will Holden from Vanderbilt
JJ Dielman from Utah
Erik Magnuson from Michigan
Julien Davenport from Bucknell
Dan Skipper from Arkansas
Conor McDermott from UCLA
Storm Norton from Toledo
Javarius Leamon from S.C. State
Names I've seen batted around:
Will Holden from Vanderbilt
JJ Dielman from Utah
Erik Magnuson from Michigan
Julien Davenport from Bucknell
Dan Skipper from Arkansas
Conor McDermott from UCLA
Storm Norton from Toledo
Javarius Leamon from S.C. State
I fear we may have a repeat of the 2008 draft when there was a run on OTs. Eight taken in round one that year. Probably won't be that many this year. But there will be a run.
jradMIT
Veteran
If there is a run like that take as many DB/TE/S/Edges that actually deserve to be taken early.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Yeah that was my point. Don't get into a bidding war and way overpay for a guy. Go after someone lower down the list and try to sign them closer to market value (similar to what we did with Jospeh while everyone else was hot after Asomugha).
It looks like Wagner is about to get $9M a year from Detroit to play RT. That makes him the 2nd highest paid RT in the league (essentially the highest paid as Lane Johnson is #1 but he's the Eagles LT of the future). The 3rd highest is Bryan Bulaga for the Packers at $6.75M. This deal would make Wagner the highest paid RT in the league by at least $2M+ per year.
Signing a guy like Nsekhe or Reiff really would open up the draft to pick more talented guys like Cunninham/Hooker/Peppers/Cook etc... all better players than the 3 OT's. I do like Robinson though.