Brando
Hall of Fame
I haven't watched that play yet but on the radio didn't they say it wasn't a blindside hit? The blindside would be his backside.
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Your positives and negatives from the game?
- Thread starter TheRealJoker
- Start date
I haven't watched that play yet but on the radio didn't they say it wasn't a blindside hit? The blindside would be his backside.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Bering right handed, his left side.
Brando
Hall of Fame
Specnatz
Hall of Fame
It was his front side, but also a lot of folks say blindside is because Sage had his head turned looking the other way. He locked onto a receiver and failed to scan the whole field as he waited for a specific target got open.
While Taylor deserves a lot of the blame, Sage needs to take some ownership as well for not having his head on a sival as they say.
Koolaid Time
Drink Up!
Unless the running game gets fixed QUICK, then opposing defenses will just double AJ and send their D line and crash a linebacker on every down.
Someone gets hurt... and then you play the broken record once again.
Sage was fixed on the left side and Taylor was looking at the middle of the field.
Neither Sage or Taylor saw the CB coming.
Thanks to texansbullpen.com for the pics.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
whats the difference, I've heard Ahman might have to miss the rest of pre-season to rest his groin, of course your the expert on these physical injurys maybe you can shed some light on Greens proclivity to seek medical habitual rest, I sure as hell don't
It apparently was a hamstring strain. He only had an upper thigh ice pack on for less than an hour after the injury. I, from then on, saw him without ice for the rest of the game on the bench and walking around. If it were a major tear, I would have expected him to have the ice on the entire game, and totally resting his leg. If it were only a strain, and not a tear, I would think that a week of rest would presumably do the trick. However, the Texans may be so skittish that they would rather not chance another more serious injury before games count. That's sad. That leaves open the the anticipated recurrent injury concerns, now to the beginning of the season, we've all had from the beginning. Also sad is that, again, the question of conditioning has to come into play.
Brando
Hall of Fame
Sage was fixed on the left side and Taylor was looking at the middle of the field.
Neither Sage or Taylor saw the CB coming.
Thanks to texansbullpen.com for the pics.
Thanks for the clarification!
Da_General
Obnoxious Musician
The pictures already posted clarify what I meant...it wasn't his blindside, but he sure as heck wasn't looking that direction! And on the reply in the stadium you could clearly see Taylor was backing up the RT and the guy just blew by behind him. I would think that's solely his responsibility to pick up someone coming from that side. That being said, Sage shouldn't have left himself so vulnerable either.
If Green makes the opening day roster, his entire salary for '08 is guaranteed. I'd like to see him in the Dallas game (at minimum) before deciding to keep him. If he can't get through the preseason, I'd like to see the Texans look at Shaun Alexander.
His 500k roster bonus is not guaranteed since it's payable in increments of 500/16 week to week but only if he's on the gameday 45.
Why is his '08 base guaranteed - am I missing something obvious?
Koolaid Time
Drink Up!
The over/under on that is the 3rd quarter of game 2...
Look at how many games he has missed because of groin, knee, hamstring, etc.
Brando
Hall of Fame
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
It's only the 1st game of the preseason, but you have to admit that when you take away the yardage from Turk's fake run, and see that we only gained 19 yards on 10 carries (1st half), it doesn't exactly give you warm and fuzzy feelings.
Malloy
Hall of Fame
Honestly I dont really care if he gets the money or not. Worst case scenario is that we will pay him his entire contract this year, but from my understanding we have room under the cap for just this. 'Saving' money on getting rid of Green before the regular season wont make us rich, money under the cap thats not spend is basically wasted right?
Now if he cost us alot of money and we were in acute cap problems, then getting rid of Green before the regular season would be a possible solution, but in our situation right now?
Or look at you or me maybe ? Just anybody who can catch a football in the open field and move on upfield without tweakin a hammy and falling flat on his azz.
I dunno, but at this point how can the Texans possibly have one iota of faith in his reliability as a functioning running back for their backfield given his incredible fragilty ?
How's that go - "fool me once, shame on you, fool me blah blah"
Malloy
Hall of Fame
It's only the 1st game of the preseason, but you have to admit that when you take away the yardage from Turk's fake run, and see that we only gained 19 yards on 10 carries (1st half), it doesn't exactly give you warm and fuzzy feelings.
Mentioned this before somewhere, but if this first games rushing offense were not utilizing the ZBS, we should probably hang on a bit before judging them. Now if yesterdays producting on the ground were the result of our ned ZBS, I would think that there was a reason to be worried.
I believe a player with 4+ credited seasons have their base salary guaranteed if they make the opening day roster. If the Texans waive Green after that, and another team picks up his contract, they are free of the contract. If he didn't clear waivers, the Texans would be on the hook. If Green were to sign as a street free agent with another team during the season it gets more confusing. According to Miguel's salary cap FAQ, the Texans would still be responsible for Green's '08 salary as termination pay.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
My thoughts on the game are here:
FanHouse: Ahman Green Touches Ball Once, Falls Down, Is Injured, Few Surprised
Nothing particularly revolutionary or different other than that a vampire rocker is now a Texans fan.
FanHouse: Ahman Green Touches Ball Once, Falls Down, Is Injured, Few Surprised
Nothing particularly revolutionary or different other than that a vampire rocker is now a Texans fan.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Well, I don't think you can discount the bootleg runs by the QB and the end arounds. Those plays are so integral in the run game. The reason why they were so successful is the same reason why we struggled on some runs- overpursuit by the back side.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
Eh. I don't see our A and A1 quarterbacks getting those same runs. So they are irrelevant to the regular season.
What I am concerned about is performance of the running backs.
The inconsistent running back play has been a pox on this Kubiak offense, and harms the defense by keeping them on the field too much because we can't burn time effectively with running.
Texan fans want to see better running play because it will allow for more things to happen in the passing game, and hopefully will lead to fewer turnovers because teams will have to respect the run, and can't cheat too much in coverage.
Fantasy players want to figure out 1. if this is going to be a plug any running back in and get a bunch of yards team; 2. and who might be candidates for that spot; 3. if the running game will be an albatross to the rest of the offense. If there is some sort of cheap acquisition Texans running back that they might grab.
Kubiak's offense is designed to run the ball. If they can't run consistently, it limits what they can do on offense and what will work.
It is early. Still, Kubiak won't want to depend too much on his inexperienced running backs who can't be reliable in pass protection.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I remember watching Steve Deberg in Kansas City run for 70 yards on a 4th and one bootleg. I expect there will be a number of times when Schaub gets 10-15 yards on bootlegs because the defense overpursued the zone stretch.
I'm concerned about the running game also. However, if the QBs are bootlegging outside of containment and we're getting 15 yards on our end arounds this season then that means our running game is being respected and accomplishing what last year's didn't.
I'm bothered by the negativity that seems pervasive following a preseason game that we won, where I saw a lot to be encouraged about. Certainly, it's a bummer that Green went lame on the first play. However, he was the only injury and it was a minor one.
What I saw was a team that physically overmatched the Broncos. We committed 3 penalties while the Broncos were desparately clutching and grabbing all game long.
It was our first attempt at cut blocking. The first time the RBs saw it in live action and had to react to it. So, I'm fine if we improve the next two weeks-which I would expect.
My only conern, frankly, is the fact that we never covered the flats. It didn't matter whether it was 1st, 2nd, or 3rd string guys, the flats were constantly exposed. That reminds me of my lack of faith in our Defensive Coordiator. I'm trying to convince myself that they weren't interested in adjusting in game since it's the preseason. But, I am worried about that.
Finally, I'm shocked that you and some of the other knowledge posters aren't raving about some of the performances of our young guys:
Butler and Frye were outstanding...
Fletcher looked great- how many of us really expected him to look so good?
Barber and Adibi looked good.
Brown was solid.
A lot to be encouraged about, yet the focus seems to be on the negative- which I didn't see a whole lot of.
New_Texans
Rookie
Positives: We looked sluggish but we still won. Thats a good sign...just wait til we are crisp.
barrett
All Pro
i don't see any reason to panic about the running game yet. i see a reason to be concerned but you have to give them a break. it was the very first time we've EVER run Gibbs' ZBS. I expect to see massive improvement by next week and then gradual improvement in the weeks to follow. i think that it is very reasonable to struggle the very first time. now the coaches have something besides our cut blocking "run throughs" where we play a game called "i cut block you." where the lines are pretending that they have been blocked. now we have actual film to study of each players technique and execution.
for those of you who seem to think that we had an agreement with the broncos not to cut block, it's not true. we did cut block all game. it wasn't an accident a few times. we did it all game long.
honestly, Butler looked like he'd been doing it all his life. I saw him cut two guys at once late in the 4th. All the rest of them look a little tentative. which is expected. it was the very first time we've ever done it.
the same goes for the RB's. i just don't see how you can expect them to fully grasp the vison part of it when we've been pretend blocking in practice. these preseason games are more important for our OL and RB's than probably any other team in the league because we virtually get 4 chances to do a full dress rehearsal. fortunately, we seem to have a very smart group of coaches and players at those positions and i would imagine that they will be able to improve quite a bit by reviewing film of their mistakes and cognitively being able to apply it the second time around.
as i said before, i expect a drastic improvement over the coming weeks. if not, then cause for concern.
Go Texans.
p.s.
i totally agree. yet i'm annoyed because now i have yet another distraction of must read Texans material to keep me from doing anything productive.
for those of you who seem to think that we had an agreement with the broncos not to cut block, it's not true. we did cut block all game. it wasn't an accident a few times. we did it all game long.
honestly, Butler looked like he'd been doing it all his life. I saw him cut two guys at once late in the 4th. All the rest of them look a little tentative. which is expected. it was the very first time we've ever done it.
the same goes for the RB's. i just don't see how you can expect them to fully grasp the vison part of it when we've been pretend blocking in practice. these preseason games are more important for our OL and RB's than probably any other team in the league because we virtually get 4 chances to do a full dress rehearsal. fortunately, we seem to have a very smart group of coaches and players at those positions and i would imagine that they will be able to improve quite a bit by reviewing film of their mistakes and cognitively being able to apply it the second time around.
as i said before, i expect a drastic improvement over the coming weeks. if not, then cause for concern.
Go Texans.
p.s.
i totally agree. yet i'm annoyed because now i have yet another distraction of must read Texans material to keep me from doing anything productive.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
Yeah, and eventually, Denver did pretty well shutting down the bootleg. And in the regular season, nobody will respect the bootleg if the Texans can't run.
And personally, I don't get too excited about rookies not sucking so much in the preseason. I mean, I am happy when they play well, but the regular season is different and more complex. That Brown didn't look awful against the Broncos is nice, but it says little about how he will do against the Steelers on the road.
The running game has been a plague on this offense, and Green makes the decision making harder. Do you keep a guy who might have been your best running back, or do you decide that he is not a reliable option for the season?
Then you have Chris Brown who has his own injury problems, and a bunch of young guys who might get your quarterback killed and are unproven (a bunch of Wali Lundy's--not saying that they play the same game but present some of the problems for the team that relying Lundy did).
I was just looking for something. Something to be encouraged about with the running game. But yeah, it is still early.
It's the old wound. We watched a game with a scary secondary and ungood running game.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Would you guys quit banging on JJ. Good Christ. The guy is under enough pressure. He's a good prospect and if you cut the guy a little slack he's going to be ok. He's not John Taylor in a box. He's a raw prospect who's body went mushroom cloud when he was a sophomore in college. They told you when they drafted the guy...he's raw. Raw means raw. He's still learning. He's going to make errors. Might as well relax and enjoy his development. When Kubiak's lip is quivering in the presser when he's talking about you, you're in the dog house for sure.
David Anderson is what he is. A smurf with hands of gold , smart, runs great routes and unafraid to go where angels wouldn't tread. When the coach smiles as soon as your name is mentioned in the post game interview...that there thingy is a lock to make the team.
Last point...all of you guys telling me that J.J. is going to beat out Walter...by the bye week, Walter had three pancake blocks Saturday....It's going to happen eventually. But I believe some of you are vastly exaggerating the gap between the two. J.J. is still a work in progress.
P
Polo
Guest
Chris Taylor lacks the vision and lateral quickness I'd like to see for a back in this system...
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Negatives:
1) Running backs
2) Running game (RZ and otherwise)
3) Jacoby Jones (not just the fumble, but he needs geometry refresher course - the fastest way between two points is a straight line)
4) Secondary (too many open receivers - even with some pressure on their QB).
Positives:
1) Win. (In spite of all of the above)
2) Kris Brown. (Other than the Atlanta game last season, he has been nailz for a while.)
3) Boyd. (I enjoyed watching him play although he needs a lot of work.)
4) Duane Brown (He struggled a bit with the running plays, but looked pretty darn good in pass protection).
5) Matt Turk (What an athletic play after he decided to pull the ball down and take-off)... Okay I'm kidding about Turk
All in all - not too bad for the first pre-season game... Just need a lot of improvement.
1) Running backs
2) Running game (RZ and otherwise)
3) Jacoby Jones (not just the fumble, but he needs geometry refresher course - the fastest way between two points is a straight line)
4) Secondary (too many open receivers - even with some pressure on their QB).
Positives:
1) Win. (In spite of all of the above)
2) Kris Brown. (Other than the Atlanta game last season, he has been nailz for a while.)
3) Boyd. (I enjoyed watching him play although he needs a lot of work.)
4) Duane Brown (He struggled a bit with the running plays, but looked pretty darn good in pass protection).
5) Matt Turk (What an athletic play after he decided to pull the ball down and take-off)... Okay I'm kidding about Turk
All in all - not too bad for the first pre-season game... Just need a lot of improvement.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
IMO, you disdain for Salaam is corrupting you mind. LOL!
Yes, Butler had a decent game. To say Frye was outstanding is just laughable. I watched the game again yesterday and came away with the same feeling about Frye. The dude was being controlled by Dlinemen while being shoved into the backfield.
IMO, he'll be lucky to make the 53.
I think the same could be said for the rest of the RB's. The blocking was less than desirable too.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Additional Negative:
1) Television announcers who were too stupid to understand that the run by Matt Turk was a busted play, and not an intentional fake. I don't know if it's worse that they couldn't tell by simply looking that it wasn't planned, or that they apparently didn't realize that you don't practice fake punts on 4th and twenty by running your punter up the gut in a preseason game (or regular season game, or practice, or coaches daydreams, or anywhere else).
Additional Positive:
1) No turnovers by the offense. Despite the early comments on Slaton's fumbling problems, the only turnover of any kind we saw was on a special teams play. So far in '08, we're +1 in the turnover dept.
eriadoc
Texan-American
I don't think the O-line did that great a job run blocking. It's still early, they have new guys, and Gibbs still has to get things refined. So I am not overly concerned. It is the first preseason game, after all. That said, the only back that showed me anything exciting was Slaton. Walker is not a starting-caliber RB in the NFL, and I'm not even sure he has a place in the NFL. Taylor didn't have much to work with, but I didn't see the quickness I would have liked to see. Slaton had nice quickness, speed when he could use it, and didn't seem too hesitant for a rookie. I don't think he could be a feature back, but if he could play himself into 10-15 touches a game, in varying capacities, he could be a game-changer, I think. He's still a bit away from that, but I can see the potential.
EDIT to add -
I was actually happy with Jacoby Jones on one hand - he seemed to have his confidence back and was really trying to make something happen. That was the Jacoby Jones we saw last year do a flip into the end zone. On the other hand, that was the Jacoby Jones we saw last year do a flip into the end zone - reckless and dumb. He has to secure the ball. I'm sure Kubiak will get that nailed down. Jacoby Jones with a swagger is a good Jacoby Jones, if Kubiak can get his mind right.
Mario is going to be as good as he wants to be. I don't really think anyone can consistently stop him.
Dominique Barber is FAST. I like that guy.
I agree with TC's take on Okam. I think he could be a good project at DT, and I would like to see him make the team.
Further edit - the D-Line was getting such good pressure early that the Broncos started running those flat-pass plays and a screen or two. We did nothing to defend that, and it hurt us. I think the coaches will get that part sorted out, but the pressure from the D-Line really made me happy.
EDIT to add -
- That's what I'm getting at. I agree.
I was actually happy with Jacoby Jones on one hand - he seemed to have his confidence back and was really trying to make something happen. That was the Jacoby Jones we saw last year do a flip into the end zone. On the other hand, that was the Jacoby Jones we saw last year do a flip into the end zone - reckless and dumb. He has to secure the ball. I'm sure Kubiak will get that nailed down. Jacoby Jones with a swagger is a good Jacoby Jones, if Kubiak can get his mind right.
Mario is going to be as good as he wants to be. I don't really think anyone can consistently stop him.
Dominique Barber is FAST. I like that guy.
I agree with TC's take on Okam. I think he could be a good project at DT, and I would like to see him make the team.
Further edit - the D-Line was getting such good pressure early that the Broncos started running those flat-pass plays and a screen or two. We did nothing to defend that, and it hurt us. I think the coaches will get that part sorted out, but the pressure from the D-Line really made me happy.
Shaft75
All Pro
What about Mario? Did you see him push Clady into the rb twice and completely blow sh*t up along the line?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Frye was very good at the point of attack, he never got beat by his man during pass protection, and he was excellent blocking for the running game on the back side. So, I'm not sure what you're looking at.
I'm not a fan of Chris White's game either, but that doesn't stop me from seeing that Eslinger was lousy. The fact that I don't think Salaam is good has nothing to do with my assessment of Frye.
I've remained silent mainly because you guys have listed all the things we all liked and hated during the game.
Seeing the offensive personnel we have on hand, I have one question:
Why DO we have to stress the run so much when the bulk of our current talent is with our aerial attack?
Before you jump me, think about it.
Where are our best and most dependable weapons?
In the ground game?
I think not.
Seeing the offensive personnel we have on hand, I have one question:
Why DO we have to stress the run so much when the bulk of our current talent is with our aerial attack?
Before you jump me, think about it.
Where are our best and most dependable weapons?
In the ground game?
I think not.
Specnatz
Hall of Fame
I understand your thinking but if teams do not have to think about the rub the they will drop 7 or 8 and then you have no passing lanes so your air attck is negated.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
THAT's when we run.
It would be great if we had the running attack to burn clock when we are ahead in the 4th and all that, but we don't. Until we get one, we will pass or we will punt.
P
Polo
Guest
We have a rookie LT...We don't want to get our QB's killed....As a team we still aren't great at pass protection...We've gotten better at it, but not good enough to say it's a strength...
Our QB's both have tendencies to make dumb throws...
Running the ball wears down opposing defenses and keeps our defense fresh...Passing a lot increases the likelihood of turnovers...
Our QB's both have tendencies to make dumb throws...
Running the ball wears down opposing defenses and keeps our defense fresh...Passing a lot increases the likelihood of turnovers...
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I think we're focused on the run this off-season because it was last year's glaring weakness. Kubiak believes running the ball is essential to success. I don't think he believes being run-dominant is the only way to win. I expect we will throw quite a bit but it's important to the overall success of the team that we can capably run the ball- that will keep the QBs healthy and making our passing game more effective. Balance is the goal. I think we'll run more, run more effectively and also throw for more yards and TDs this season if Kubiak gets his wish.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
OK, so I went back and I was able to watch the first half for the first time.
Chris Taylor had some problems. I think we can all agree on that. But some of the problems were him not making the right read, some of the problems were missed blocks, and some problems were him not hitting the hole quick enough. We left yards on the field in the rushing game. They were there.
I saw Brown totally miss hooking his man on one play and that guy was able to get to Taylor before he got started. However, if Taylor had been quicker to the hole, he would have had at least 5-6 yards.
On another play, Jacoby Jones totally missed his block on the CB and the CB was able to get in there and stop Taylor before he got started. If Jacoby makes that block, Taylor gets several yards.
On another play, Taylor has a choice of running straight or cutting back... he cut back right into a linebacker filling the hole. If he had kept following his blockers, he would have had 7-8 yards.
On at least two of those plays I've mentioned, I think Slaton would have been able to break them for some yardage (not that he WOULD have.)
So I don't think we're that far away.
Chris Taylor had some problems. I think we can all agree on that. But some of the problems were him not making the right read, some of the problems were missed blocks, and some problems were him not hitting the hole quick enough. We left yards on the field in the rushing game. They were there.
I saw Brown totally miss hooking his man on one play and that guy was able to get to Taylor before he got started. However, if Taylor had been quicker to the hole, he would have had at least 5-6 yards.
On another play, Jacoby Jones totally missed his block on the CB and the CB was able to get in there and stop Taylor before he got started. If Jacoby makes that block, Taylor gets several yards.
On another play, Taylor has a choice of running straight or cutting back... he cut back right into a linebacker filling the hole. If he had kept following his blockers, he would have had 7-8 yards.
On at least two of those plays I've mentioned, I think Slaton would have been able to break them for some yardage (not that he WOULD have.)
So I don't think we're that far away.
That's what draw plays are for and I'm not thinking full blown Run & Shoot... I'm thinking more West Coast offense where curls and outs and short passes to the backs are like long handoffs. A passing game based on mainly 3 or 5 step drops will minimize the rush.
I'm not pushing any panic buttons. I'm just saying our running attack isn't - and won't be -a strength without a stud RB we can depend on. The only studs we can depend on on offense are in our passing game.
I guess I should look on the bright side. We still moved the ball up and down the field with our 3rd, 4th, and 5th RBs. Not well, but well enough.
I watched the NFLN replay of the game and saw the same things you did. Missed blocks by JJ (man he looked bad on that play) and Brown on a couple of plays. And I saw Taylor make bad reads on some plays too. If Taylor had Walker's ability to set up his blocking, he could be special.
Maybe when Taylor sees the vid of the game he'll see his mistakes.
