McNabb Comments

[Lucky]

...but there are those who will scrutinize him more, because he is black.

Do you have any examples? I mean, other than Rush Limbaugh?

The only overt criticism I've seen of McNabb was from Limbaugh (a drugged out fruitcake), TO (a self-loving black WR), and the president of Philly's NAACP chapter (for McNabb not playing "black"). Where o' where is the evidence?

 

[Texan_Bill]

What I got from this was that part of the "pressure" that McNabb has to deal with is from racist/biased critics. I agree that he is under pressure, because of his poor performing, but there are those who will scrutinize him more, because he is black.

Problem is by acknowledging those ignorant few, you give them power... Ignore them and they have no platform.
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The scrutiny is as much about his injuries as Lucky has stated.

Bottom line is McNabb will be fine. Afterall, he is recovering from his surgery. He probably won't be "right" until mid-way through the season.. And lets face it, in the Nancy Football Conference, they can still be alive come play-off time... If thats the case, critics will shut-up.

 

[kastofsna]

I agree. QBs in general get ripped and he is in a city who loves to rip. As I heard from Costas on Rome today, if the NFL was set up like he says then why would VY go before Leinart and why would Quinn drop as Russell goes #1?

most of the pressure these guys feel are from being top draft picks. all you have to do is look at Tavaris Jackson. a second rounder out of a school no one's ever seen play, so the media doesn't care about him outside of Minnesota. is it because he's black? no, it's because....he's a second rounder out of a school no one has ever seen play. the media only reacts to stories (or create their own stories, but that's another thread). McNabb, Vick, Culpepper, Russell, Andre Ware, Leftwich, Akili Smith.....they were all first rounders, so they naturally have a ton of hype and every thing they do on the field is going to be criticized. just like with Rex Grossman, Kyle Boller, Alex Smith, Matt Leinart, JP Losman, and probably more than any other QB in the game, Eli Manning (for many reasons, of course). it's the nature of the position, and the nature of your draft pick.

 

[The Dream]

people have gone out of their way to criticize that specific quarterback because everyone else in the media and everywhere else has gone out of their way to put him on a plateau above everyone else. it's ironic to use him for the "black QB's get bashed more" argument.

we've also seen the same thing with David Carr here. there were quite a few folks who defended him no matter what, and then the reactionaries who really drove home their opinion on how he sucks, etc. it's true with any player that gets hyped/praised too much

But think about it is this way. David Carr was given a half a decade here to prove something...woud the leash be that long for a black QB who played that poorly? And as far as that certain QB is concerned those same people who were critical of him can hardly be seen saying anything critical of Cutler or Lienhart. It was even like that coming out of the draft. "Vince is another Michael Vick"...the reason people said that is because all they saw was another "black" qb that can run. I'm sorry, but we all know that there are still people out there who can't get past a mans skin color eventhough there have been black quarterbacks who have shown that they can be just as good if not better than their white counterparts. The wonderlic test jokes (even when other qbs in the past performed poorly on the same test), comparing him to "radio" because he's the big black dude who plays sports, etc. all has some sort of racial undertone with it.

We see racism with coach hirings and firings in football so why is it so hard to accept that the same can't be said for the QB position?

 

[The Dream]

Problem is by acknowledging those ignorant few, you give them power... Ignore them and they have no platform.

No by acknowledging those "few" you bring the subject of race to the table that we all seem to try to avoid even though it's with us every day....if you ignore them then you have no platform....or guts.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Dream,

A black QB that has sucked for 5 years - well 4 years -- before being released (ala or similar to Carr)....

Byron Sandwich!?!???? Doug Williams?????? (first 5 in Tampa)

Just throwing it out there.

 

[thunderkyss]

I do think McNabb has faced undue criticism.

I don't think think he gets that QB because he's black.

I've got an Eagle fan here in my building. I tease him all the time, because McNabb is soft(my opinion), and has a propensity to always throw an interception to give the game away.

I don't care if he's white, black, hispanic or asian, If a man breaks his leg, and comes back to play the best game of his career 4 weeks later, and points out his QB because he wasn't ready for that game(throwing chunks and all that), then I'm siding with that man. Terrell Owens was right, and DMcNabb was not ready for that game.

He deserved that criticism.

Monday night, he was throwing balls behind his recievers, too high, and in the dirt.

But he played that game, even though he wasn't ready(IMHO) because he felt threatened to lose his job.

Same reason why Garcia was run out of town.

He brings it all on himself.

If I were him, I could care less if Philly wants to go with Garcia or Cobb. I will find another team, hopefully in the NFC East, and beat the Eagles twice a year.

But McNabb has decided he wants to whine & cry.

 

[real]

Just a random hypothetical question:

If David Carr was black and in the same exact situation, would it have been widely thought that it was his "O-line's" fault ?

I'm not saying it would have or it wouldn't have been. I honestly don't know. I suspect it would have been a little different, but I can't really say for sure.

 

[Lucky]

I'm sorry, but we all know that there are still people out there who can't get past a mans skin color eventhough there have been black quarterbacks who have shown that they can be just as good if not better than there white counterparts.

Yes, those people are out there. But, how many of those people run NFL franchises? Or are in the major media? Few and far between.

Like I asked you before, can you point to specific criticism of McNabb that you feel is racist in nature?

 

[eriadoc]

But think about it is this way. David Carr was given a half a decade here to prove something...woud the leash be that long for a black QB who played that poorly?

I don't know. Let's ask Michael Vick. People that defend Vick always point to wins and losses, never considering how his poor passing actually contributed to those wins. Sure, he made a difference with his legs, but he offset that by consistently underthrowing/overthrowing receivers, and he had less pocket presence than Carr.

How long did Doug Williams get in TB? How long did Randall Cunningham get in Philly, despite not winning as much as McNabb? I can't think of too many black QBs that were drafted highly (that plays more of a part here than anything, IMO), given the starting job, then yanked after performing even decently. You have to be Akili Smith reincarnated to get booted quickly after being drafted highly, because in the NFL, the only color that matters is green.

It was even like that coming out of the draft. "Vince is another Michael Vick"...the reason people said that is because all they saw was another "black" qb that can run.

Well, I won't pretend to speak for everyone, but to me, that was just another way of saying, "here's another running QB that has questionable passing skills". But yeah, people on one side of the fence might have intended some racial undertone, and people on the other side of the fence might have automatically assumed some racial prejudice.

 

[real]

most of the pressure these guys feel are from being top draft picks. all you have to do is look at Tavaris Jackson. a second rounder out of a school no one's ever seen play, so the media doesn't care about him outside of Minnesota.

It's about perception.

 

[thunderkyss]

Has Anyone ever come out and said that McNabb is not amoung the top tier QBs in this league??

I can't remember a time when he was not included as one of the top 5 outside of his first two years.

What criticism is he getting exactly that the Others(Manning, Palmer, Brady) aren't getting??

Is there anyone ever mentioned with those three other than McNabb??

Maybe Farve, but if so, would that be too far fetched??

 

[Texan_Bill]

Just a random hypothetical question:

If David Carr was black and in the same exact situation, would it have been widely thought that it was his "O-line's" fault ?

I'm not saying it would have or it wouldn't have been. I honestly don't know. I suspect it would have been a little different, but I can't really say for sure.

Again, we know that you are noob, but it is "widely known that it wasn't the O-line's fault". See Schaubs sack numbers in comparison.. Carr has been pasted up and down and sideways - not the O-line. Thus, he's gone!

So the criticism (severe critcism and probably as bad as McNabb has received) on this board of Carr would have stood the same if he was purple...

 

[Lucky]

I don't care if he's white, black, hispanic or asian, If a man breaks his leg, and comes back to play the best game of his career 4 weeks later, and points out his QB because he wasn't ready for that game(throwing chunks and all that), then I'm siding with that man.

What about the man who quarterbacked that team to 2 playoff victorys, so that the man who broke his leg gets a chance to play in that Super Bowl? No props for him?

That's what I call "undue criticism."

 

[Texan_Bill]

1) Has Anyone ever come out and said that McNabb is not amoung the top tier QBs in this league??

2) I can't remember a time when he was not included as one of the top 5 outside of his first two years.

3) What criticism is he getting exactly that the Others(Manning, Palmer, Brady) aren't getting??

4) Is there anyone ever mentioned with those three other than McNabb??

5) Maybe Farve, but if so, would that be too far fetched??

1) No!
2) Nor can I
3) that he can't stay healthy and on the field - which HURTS HIS TEAM!
4) Nope
5) again, no.

 

[The Dream]

Yes, those people are out there. But, how many of those people run NFL franchises? Or are in the major media? Few and far between.

LOL, how do we know that it's "few and far between". Are we all in other peoples minds?...Whether you feel like they're a minority or a majority the fact is that they are out there.

[Like I asked you before, can you point to specific criticism of McNabb that you feel is racist in nature?
/QUOTE]

Limbaugh....the thing I actually respect about Limbaugh is that he actually had the balls to come out and say it and not hide his prejudice....people were acting like it was a big surprise when he came out and said it, but anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that it happens all the time.

Byron Sandwich!?!???? Doug Williams?????? (first 5 in Tampa)

neither of those men were as bad as Carr and we both know that.

the only color that matters is green.

not true.

 

[kastofsna]

It's about perception.

...whatever that means.

 

[The Dream]

What about the man who quarterbacked that team to 2 playoff victorys, so that the man who broke his leg gets a chance to play in that Super Bowl? No props for him?

That's what I call "undue criticism."

exactly.....the "soft" label is total bull****....how can you call a guy soft who constantly carries his sucky teammates....the guy plays hurt and doesn't complain despite the little help he has yet he still gets the "soft" label....that is bull****.

 

[Texan_Bill]

2005 - 9 games on the field
2006 - 10 games.

He is one of the great ones, but his durability 'should' be called into question given the trend over the last couple of years.

 

[The Dream]

Has Anyone ever come out and said that McNabb is not amoung the top tier QBs in this league??

I can't remember a time when he was not included as one of the top 5 outside of his first two years.

What criticism is he getting exactly that the Others(Manning, Palmer, Brady) aren't getting??

Is there anyone ever mentioned with those three other than McNabb??

Maybe Farve, but if so, would that be too far fetched??

1. I will say that I don't think he gets the credit he deserves
2. agree
3. the fact that some people can't get by the fact that he is a black quarterback
4. mentioned how?
5. ???

 

[kastofsna]

exactly.....the "soft" label is total bull****....how can you call a guy soft who constantly carries his sucky teammates....the guy plays hurt and doesn't complain despite the little help he has yet he still gets the "soft" label....that is bull****.

i'm not sure how you can say he has "sucky" teammates. he's always had a great defense, his o-line has always been good, and he's had some good talent in the backfield, too. the only "sucky" part has been the receivers, but that's it, really. you're trying to prove your point too much here by denying the facts.

 

[Texan_Bill]

neither of those men were as bad as Carr and we both know that.

This we can definitely debate this (Williams v. Carrs #'s), BUT let's agree to save it for a completely different thread as the turn it would take, would be completely irrelevant to this discussion...

 

[real]

Again, we know that you are noob, but it is "widely known that it wasn't the O-line's fault". See Schaubs sack numbers in comparison.. Carr has been pasted up and down and sideways - not the O-line. Thus, he's gone!

So the criticism (severe critcism and probably as bad as McNabb has received) on this board of Carr would have stood the same if he was purple...

Bill. You have to think outside of your box.

I'm not talking about on this board. I'm talking about football fans and football media in general.

I'm not sure if you're ignoring the fact that Most NFL fans and Media thought Carr was a good QB behind a bad O-line or if you're just denying it.

 

[The Dream]

i'm not sure how you can say he has "sucky" teammates. he's always had a great defense, his o-line has always been good, and he's had some good talent in the backfield, too. the only "sucky" part has been the receivers, but that's it, really. you're trying to prove your point too much here by denying the facts.

last time I checked your receivers have a lot to do with the quarterback position....McNabb has not had the same level of talent of other QBs (Brady and Manning) yet he still faces the harsh criticism for not being able to win the "big game."

 

[Texan_Bill]

Bill. You have to think outside of your box.

I'm not talking about on this board. I'm talking about football fans and football media in general.

I'm not sure if you're ignoring the fact that Most NFL fans and Media thought Carr was a good QB behind a bad O-line or if you're just denying it.

Thats probably true up until recently but forget all of that!!!

You're secret has been shared with me. I should have figured it was you. No worries...

BUT props, you got me....

 

[Lucky]

2005 - 9 games on the field
2006 - 10 games.

That's the point. I don't think Reid thinks it's McNabb fault for being injured 2 years in a row. It's just that Reid can't take it on faith that McNabb will come back as good as ever. Reid has to keep his job, too. He couldn't bypass a future starting QB just to avoid McNabb's hurt feelings.

 

[real]

...whatever that means.

It means that it isn't about the actual criticism itself.

It's about how McNabb is percieved.

Sure every QB recieves criticism, but I think McNabb's main point was that if he were white and doing the same exact things he's doing now, he'd be percieved differntly.

Not saying whether he's right or wrong, I'm just saying Tavaris Jackson has no relevance.

Unless you want to talk about the fact many doomed the Vikings for failure because of the "young" QB they had starting vs. the many people that call for Kellen Clemens to replace Pennington...

 

[real]

Thats probably true up until recently but forget all of that!!!

You're secret has been shared with me. I should have figured it was you. No worries...

BUT props, you got me....

AHHHHAAAAA!

 

[kastofsna]

3. the fact that some people can't get by the fact that he is a black quarterback

like who? is this just something you say that you can't prove, but no one can deny, either?

Unless you want to talk about the fact many doomed the Vikings for failure because of the "young" QB they had starting vs. the many people that call for Kellen Clemens to replace Pennington...

people love the backup, and Clemens has looked pretty damn good in his backup role, while Jackson has looked pretty average as a starter. that's just typical everyone loves the backup mentality, in a much larger market, too. although i'm not really sure who doomed the Vikings for failure because of Jackson, but hey, think what ya want.

also if it's all about perception, then it's my perception that McNabb is just trying to get away with the fact that the media as a whole is way too afraid to address McNabb's remarks without coming off as a bigot. screw him, he's using his race as a crutch, it's a slap in the face to those who faced real racist issues long before him.

 

[real]

it's a slap in the face to those who faced real racist issues long before him.

I agree with this part, kinda sorta, a little bit.

 

[The Dream]

like who? is this just something you say that you can't prove, but no one can deny, either?

Limbaugh is just one example, but it would be silly of us to sit up here and think that people still can't get past a mans skin color on the football field or in everyday life.....I can't prove that I passed a racist person in the street this past week, but does that mean that I'm crazy for saying that I did?

 

[The Dream]

it's a slap in the face to those who faced real racist issues long before him.

What exactly is a "real" racist issue? Just because it's not in your face doesn't make it any less "realler" than any of it from the past. I'm not saying we should all stop what we're doing anytime someone calls racism, but we should at least be able to look at situations objectively without brushing them off as "not real."

My main point in all of this is that it is not insane for Mcnabb to think that there are those out there who criticize him, because he is a black quarterback.

 

[Specnatz]

Limbaugh is just one example, but it would be silly of us to sit up here and think that people still can't get past a mans skin color on the football field or in everyday life.....I can't prove that I passed a racist person in the street this past week, but does that mean that I'm crazy for saying that I did?

Besides Rush who else?

 

[Texans_Chick]

Some excerpts from what I wrote at FanHouse that I believe are germaine to what has been said so far:

I think anyone who does a job that has been traditionally not performed by people of their race or gender do feel like they have to perform better at their job in order to overcome people's traditional biases. Most of my career choices have been in traditionally male professions, and I know I've felt that way. And for some reason, it is grim to even admit that.

McNabb came into the league in 1999, a time where there still weren't many examples of successful black quarterbacks. He came into a very hostile situation where most fans didn't want him picked. Yeah, Philly had a history with Randall Cunningham, but when sports talk cretins make their arguments why they like this guy over that guy, often people's conscious or unconscious biases come to play. Stuff gets thought and stuff gets said.

And McNabb went through all that racial discussion brought up by Rush Limbaugh, certainly something that made him very aware of how at least some people perceive him.

I don't think you can live that without it affecting your world view. If you know there has been a history of not wanting black quarterbacks, and there isn't a long history of role models, I don't see why it is out of line to believe you have to work harder than your peers to overcome that bias.
...
Does Donovan McNabb get more criticism than his white counterparts? The quarterback position is the most scrutinized position in the NFL and is one of the few positions that even casual fans can say anything about. They get more credit and more criticism. Hard to measure relative criticism in different circumstances, but I could see how McNabb feels the way he does.

In 2006, I heard and read plenty of sports talk cretinism as it related to race and Vince Young. Right after the draft, on my former blog, any time I mentioned Vince Young, there would always be a few really nasty racial blasts that I'd have to delete. I am guessing that the stuff a black quarterback hears during the course of his life would probably be worse than that.

McNabb doesn't say everybody is racist, but I am sure he hears enough filth to make him feel he gets criticized more and has to work harder than his peers.

Some of the ugly racial stuff I read when I did the Chronic FanBlog stuff relating to Vince Young and his potential as QB, was so repugnant, I almost felt like I needed to wash my hands after I deleted that stuff.

And the thought experiment of thinking of black David Carr is an interesting one. Until Schaub was showing what he could do with the Texans offense, there were still tons of defenders of David Carr as QB, Schaub will get killed behind the putrid offensive line.

Black David Carr, mature with a family, coming outta Fresno State as the athletic first pick. Photogenic and a good Christian. Doesn't hang out with his teammates and not much of a leader. Strange throwing motion, and demonstrates difficulties reading defenses and moving around in the pocket and panicking. Hampered by poor coaching, system and talent around him.

I don't know the answer to that. As much as DC got criticized, I wonder if black DC would have been booted sooner.

This reminds me of Dave Chappelle's Black Bush sketch, where he makes the argument that there is no way that the American public would have followed a black president into war with the information that was available.

Anyway, I never like to talk about this stuff because if you do, you are labelled a libber or whiner or whatever. I know what kinda crap I've lived through working in traditionally male fields, so I am guessing that is times 100 in a high profile, high performance position like NFL QB.

And it is a hard subject to deal with. If you don't talk about what you go through, are you making it harder for those similarly situated? Or are you ducking the truth when you are asked a question of your opinion? If you stay quiet, you are a liar, and if you speak up, you are a whiner.

I had a boss who was eventually fired for being a racist/sexist bastidge of the worst variety. His tendencies were first pretty subtle. I got interviewed about him a year after I left that job and since then I've always wonder whether I would have been better off reporting him. You feel bad talking about it and you feel bad being quiet about it.

Personally, in McNabb's situation, I would have tried to beg out of the questions. Mostly because an NFL QB just has to suck it up for the good of others, can't spend time talking about controversial social issues and racial stuff always turns into a cluster. Just check out this thread.

 

[kastofsna]

What exactly is a "real" racist issue? Just because it's not in your face doesn't make it any less "realler" than any of it from the past. I'm not saying we should all stop what we're doing anytime someone calls racism, but we should at least be able to look at situations objectively without brushing them off as "not real."

actually that's EXACTLY what i'm saying. it's not real at all because he's manufacturing it out of nothing. just like you, he's "assuming" people are being racist towards him, and while there are obviously people out there who don't like him because he's black...who cares? he has no proof of actual racism, he just THINKS people are bigoted towards him. quite a far cry than those who actually received unfair treatment and had substandard living conditions because of their race.

so what if people don't like McNabb because of his race? it's not preventing him from living his life and doing his job, it's not affecting his performance on the field, it's not affecting his commercial potential, and it's certainly affecting his pocketbook.

so no, the racism he faces is certainly "not real." because it's not actually affecting him whatsoever, except in his head, where there's obviously all kinds of bizarre neurosis at work.

 

[The Dream]

actually that's EXACTLY what i'm saying. it's not real at all because he's manufacturing it out of nothing. just like you, he's "assuming" people are being racist towards him, and while there are obviously people out there who don't like him because he's black...who cares? he has no proof of actual racism, he just THINKS people are bigoted towards him.

so it's not real because he can't "prove" it????....so I haven't passed anyone racist in the street in the past year, because I can't "prove" it???....

quite a far cry than those who actually received unfair treatment and had substandard living conditions because of their race.

dude he didn't come out and say that he has had it worst than other black man that has walked the face of this earth, lol, he just said that he does believe that there are those out there who look at him through a microscope, because he's black.

so what if people don't like McNabb because of his race? it's not preventing him from living his life and doing his job, it's not affecting his performance on the field, it's not affecting his commercial potential, and it's certainly affecting his pocketbook.

I'd beg to differ. Pressure affects athletes all the time and if he feels that he's being looked at unfairly by some it could spill over to his performance on the field.

so no, the racism he faces is certainly "not real." because it's not actually affecting him whatsoever, except in his head, where there's obviously all kinds of bizarre neurosis at work.

so it's not real racism because it doesn't directly affect him?....that's the biggest B.S. I've ever heard. So a guy could come up and call me the N word and that's not real racism because it doesn't affect my performance in school, at work, or any other aspect of my life? Racism is racism and a racist is a racist no matter if it directly affects an individual or not.

 

[The Dream]

Some of the ugly racial stuff I read when I did the Chronic FanBlog stuff relating to Vince Young and his potential as QB, was so repugnant, I almost felt like I needed to wash my hands after I deleted that stuff.

And the thought experiment of thinking of black David Carr is an interesting one. Until Schaub was showing what he could do with the Texans offense, there were still tons of defenders of David Carr as QB, Schaub will get killed behind the putrid offensive line.

Black David Carr, mature with a family, coming outta Fresno State as the athletic first pick. Photogenic and a good Christian. Doesn't hang out with his teammates and not much of a leader. Strange throwing motion, and demonstrates difficulties reading defenses and moving around in the pocket and panicking. Hampered by poor coaching, system and talent around him.

I don't know the answer to that. As much as DC got criticized, I wonder if black DC would have been booted sooner.

Exactly. It amazed me how many people were sticking up for Carr last season and defending him yet questioning the abilities of VY.

 

[kastofsna]

so it's not real because he can't "prove" it????....so I haven't passed anyone racist in the street in the past year, because I can't "prove" it???....

all i'm saying is that what he experiences is nothing compared to what past generations of blacks have endured in this country, whereas you essentially equated the two scenarios as being the same. it's just not that black and white (pardon the pun). yes, there's racism involved, but it's just nothing in the grand scheme of things.

dude he didn't come out and say that he has had it worst than other black man that has walked the face of this earth, lol, he just said that he does believe that there are those out there who look at him through a microscope, because he's black.

indeed, but he doesn't have any real evidence. you say evidence isn't needed, i disagree. if you're going to accuse someone of being racist, you better have something to substantiate such a claim. and of course he could never do that, because he has nothing. he's using his race as a crutch.

so it's not real racism because it doesn't directly affect him?....that's the biggest B.S. I've ever heard. So a guy could come up and call me the N word and that's not real racism because it doesn't affect my performance in school, at work, or any other aspect of my life? Racism is racism and a racist is a racist no matter if it directly affects an individual or not.

the bottomline is, just because there are some people out there who may criticize a player for his race, doesn't mean it's so substantial that it needs to be brought up multiple times. he gets criticized mostly for his inability to stay healthy and his sporadic playoff performances. chad pennington didn't get the same negative talk before he put together a full season last year? and following the best year of his career, he's now getting the "put in the backup!" talk.

i want names, i want to see evidence, i want to see something that substantiates his claims.

 

[kastofsna]

Exactly. It amazed me how many people were sticking up for Carr last season and defending him yet questioning the abilities of VY.

and you just assume that's based on race. you're going to find those kind of arguments on every message board with every QB debate, no matter the color of either player. you can't just look at someone who's defending a white guy and downing a black guy and say "welp you're racist, that's the only reason you're doing this."

this reminds me of one time on a forum when a death penalty debate heated up and one guy accused those who were opposed to it (i'm not joking) of being pro-murderer/rapist/etc......asinine and totally not based in logic. you don't have to think every black player is incredible if you're not a racist. you're allowed to have your own opinions. personally between carr and young, it's a wash as to who blows more, but that's just my opinion. no reason to turn towards racism if it conflicts with yours. just be like Vinny and call me an *****.

 

[The Dream]

all i'm saying is that what he experiences is nothing compared to what past generations of blacks have endured in this country, whereas you essentially equated the two scenarios as being the same. it's just not that black and white (pardon the pun). yes, there's racism involved, but it's just nothing in the grand scheme of things.

and all I'm saying is just because you're situation isn't as bad as your ancestors doesn't mean you should shut your mouth whenever the topic of race comes up.....that's essentially saying you're content with the status quo.

indeed, but he doesn't have any real evidence. you say evidence isn't needed, i disagree. if you're going to accuse someone of being racist, you better have something to substantiate such a claim. and of course he could never do that, because he has nothing. he's using his race as a crutch.

So were people wrong about being upset over hurricane katrina and crying racism even though they couldn't actually "prove" that anyone in the govt. was a racist themselves? Because there is a glass ceiling for blacks in various career fields it isn't racist, because they can't "prove" that those above them are racist themselves???...you can miss me with that man.

the bottomline is, just because there are some people out there who may criticize a player for his race, doesn't mean it's so substantial that it needs to be brought up multiple times.

how is he bringing it up multiple times? This is the first instance where I can remember saying that he felt this way. And if it does indeed exist it is important.

i want names, i want to see evidence, i want to see something that substantiates his claims.

everyone on this board knows that there are racist individuals out there in the world of sports......when it comes to the way players are looked at by fans (Texans Chicks example with VY), to radio host coming out and saying retarded things, to hiring and firing of black coaches, etc....there is plenty of "proof" out there which makes Mcnabb's comments seem like they're worthy of some actual thought.

 

[The Dream]

and you just assume that's based on race. you're going to find those kind of arguments on every message board with every QB debate, no matter the color of either player. you can't just look at someone who's defending a white guy and downing a black guy and say "welp you're racist, that's the only reason you're doing this."

I never said anyone who defends a white guy and downs a black guy is racist....don't put words in my mouth. Looking back on things David Carr was pathetic...he stunk......anyone with any football knowledge knew this guy would never be worth crap....yet there are those who still stuck by him and believed that he would be a better draft choice than the more talented Vince Young. Add on all the stupid ass wonderlic/radio jokes and other things those same people say in other forums which are dare I say "racist" and we can easily see how race could be a factor in some peoples decisions.....it's not that far fetched of an idea if you really look at it.

 

[kastofsna]

it's at least the 2nd time McNabb has brought this up, i remember a Sportscenter "Sunday Conversation" from a few years ago where he echoed the same sentiments.

when i say "proof" i don't mean like documents or film or anything proving racism, i just want logical reasoning behind feelings that he feels have been racist towards him. just putting a blanket statement over everything and saying "we're expected to do better" means nothing, he's not saying anything, it can just be an opinion he pulled out of his ass because he doesn't like being criticized. how can he even say guys like Manning, Palmer, etc aren't criticized? of course they are. Manning had crosshairs on him since college. he and McNabb shared a lot of the same traits during their NFL career: lots of success in the regular season, annual Pro Bowl visits, lots of commercials and jersey sales, but nothing in the postseason. and in McNabb's case, he also has injuries. they've both been ripped thoroughly by everyone in the media for these things.

you're right, there are people out there who are racist and look at players for their race. so be it. that's the world we live in. but McNabb is saying that "we [black quarterbacks] get looked at differently than they [white quarterbacks] do." by who? the media? the racists in the deep south? every body? this is the problem i have. he's not generalizing by saying "some people look at black QB's differently than white ones" he's flat-out saying it like it's FACT that everyone looks at blacks different. and that's simply not true.

 

[pappy]

no copy and pastes without links...please

McNabb is a crybaby and loses a ton of credibility out of this. I had a higher opinion of him before this stupid commentary.

I'm with you vinny , bad performances will always be dissected by the media no matter the race but if you add to those comments his calling his white receiver alittle white lightning ! He is just plain a racist person , and its a shame to have that in the spotlight by a community leader .

 

[Double Barrel]

When he's healthy and playing his game, I've always maintained that McNabb is probably in the top 3-5 QBs in the NFL.

It is a bit disappointing to see him pulling this stunt, especially when he's tried in the past to avoid any mention of his race with regards to being a QB.

But, I guess it's either his perception of things or he's just looking for a cop-out.

 

[kastofsna]

I'm with you vinny , bad performances will always be dissected by the media no matter the race but if you add to those comments his calling his white receiver alittle white lightning ! He is just plain a racist person , and its a shame to have that in the spotlight by a community leader .

i don't really think that comment is racist. pretty ironic though, all things considered.

 

[Texans_Chick]

When he's healthy and playing his game, I've always maintained that McNabb is probably in the top 3-5 QBs in the NFL.

It is a bit disappointing to see him pulling this stunt, especially when he's tried in the past to avoid any mention of his race with regards to being a QB.

But, I guess it's either his perception of things or he's just looking for a cop-out.

I really didn't believe it was a stunt watching the footage. I think he answered the questions he received honestly and as they were asked to him.

Do I believe he really thinks that black QB's need to work harder?

Yes.

Do I believe he thinks that black quarterbacks get criticized more?

Yes

Do I believe that he thinks he needs to be careful about how he behaves and acts because he knows about the scrutiny and role modeling he has as a quarterback who is also black?

Yes.

And the controversy is an illustration of why is was wisest never to bring up race as it relates to him, no matter what his internal feelings are. To just shut up about stuff, work harder, try to have a good public image, and to not be controversial.

Do I believe he should say those things publicly in a society that can't talk about these issues without creating a poop storm? Probably not given what his job is. Race is just too divisive issue in our society.

There were people critical about David Carr's play on the field and sometimes those people would comment on his pretty boy looks and hair.

There were people critical about Vince Young's play on the field and sometimes those people would say racial things as a part of their criticism. That stings more than saying that you have a strange throwing motion.

White QBs just need to worry about their play.

Black QBs have a certain segment of society that might also judge them on their color. Historically, that judgment was more overt. Now, such judgments tend to be more subtle but those judgments are in the context of a history of overt discrimination against black QBs.

I'm not sure you can really have a battle of the evidence about this because it's his opinion based on what he has experienced.

 

[TexanRevolution]

Just a random hypothetical question:

If David Carr was black and in the same exact situation, would it have been widely thought that it was his "O-line's" fault ?

I'm not saying it would have or it wouldn't have been. I honestly don't know. I suspect it would have been a little different, but I can't really say for sure.

First, let me say that I do believe racism exists...I don't think any reasonable person on this board would deny that fact. Just from reading these posts as objectively as possible, it seems clear to me that the primary difference between what you all are saying isn't the bottom line; rather, it seems that perspectives and/or personal experiences are coming into play here bigtime.

Real, I don't completely disagree with your posts, as I see it, you are speaking from experience...evidently you've experienced some situations which lead you to believe that certain segments of the population are judged more harshly by another segment. That being said, I can't help but note that it seems to me that this sentiment often leads to suspicion...which in turn leads to skewed perceptions and more victimization.

Perceptions are funny things...it doesn't matter if they are 'real' (as a point of fact) or not...its real to those who perceive it, thus the consequences are the same. So if you are looking for racism, you won't have to look too awful far to find plenty of it.

Nobody blames those who have been affected by racism to feel hurt by it...but to perpetuate a hurt by never giving it up & allowing for reconciliation seems to be a self-inflicted injury.

 

[Texans_Chick]

Nobody blames those who have been affected by racism to feel hurt by it...but to perpetuate a hurt by never giving it up & allowing for reconciliation seems to be a self-inflicted injury.

Huh?

If throughout your life, you hear crap about your race or your gender or whatever, and it effects you on the job, why should anyone feel the need to reconcile that?

For example...

I was paid thousands of dollars less for her first real job in a traditionally male field than a guy hired at the same time with lesser qualifications. My boss at that job was eventually fired because of his longstanding subtle racist/sexist actions when he finally crossed the line enough to get busted for it. He wasn't even the worst boss I had.

The worst boss was someone who once got busted for having sex at the workplace, got suspended, but then got promoted, and eventually became the VP of human resources of all things. He was a racist, sexist donkey snake.

It stinks to just want to do your job but be judged by stereotypes and treated worse because of your immutable characteristics. Am I a victim? No, I don't feel like am nor by telling you about this stuff am I trying to further my status as victim. I am just truth speaking.

I know that things are much better than they used to be, but I have to say that I was surprised by all the sexist crap I've encountered in my working career.

You might think that people speaking the truth as they see it on race are victimizing themselves and not reconciling things. But the flip side of that is nowadays, anyone who dares to bring up race in any context is just throwing the "race card." Some think what he was saying was ill-legitimate, so he is throwing the race card. And for him, he is just answering a question trutfully as he sees it. I would be more surprised if he never came across racist stuff than if he did.

Argh, this is why I don't like when the NSZ crosses over in the sports world at all. Football is more fun.

 

[real]

Huh?

If throughout your life, you hear crap about your race or your gender or whatever, and it effects you on the job, why should anyone feel the need to reconcile that?

For example...

I was paid thousands of dollars less for her first real job in a traditionally male field than a guy hired at the same time with lesser qualifications. My boss at that job was eventually fired because of his longstanding subtle racist/sexist actions when he finally crossed the line enough to get busted for it. He wasn't even the worst boss I had.

The worst boss was someone who once got busted for having sex at the workplace, got suspended, but then got promoted, and eventually became the VP of human resources of all things. He was a racist, sexist donkey snake.

It stinks to just want to do your job but be judged by stereotypes and treated worse because of your immutable characteristics. Am I a victim? No, I don't feel like am nor by telling you about this stuff am I trying to further my status as victim. I am just truth speaking.

I know that things are much better than they used to be, but I have to say that I was surprised by all the sexist crap I've encountered in my working career.

You might think that people speaking the truth as they see it on race are victimizing themselves and not reconciling things. But the flip side of that is nowadays, anyone who dares to bring up race in any context is just throwing the "race card." Some think what he was saying was ill-legitimate, so he is throwing the race card. And for him, he is just answering a question trutfully as he sees it. I would be more surprised if he never came across racist stuff than if he did.

Argh, this is why I don't like when the NSZ crosses over in the sports world at all. Football is more fun.

Wow...Great post....

Especially the part in bold.

 

[real]

"Off hand, I probably wouldn't give you that. I wouldn't know," McNabb said. "Was I? Yeah, I was criticized a little bit. [More] than Rex Grossman? I don't think anybody, especially me, was criticized that much.

"But you know what? Early on, nobody talked bad about Rex Grossman. It was just late in the year. Rex Grossman … although he may not have been playing well toward the end of the year, they still finished the season off [13-3]. And it took for his head coach to say, 'He's our guy, he's the quarterback of this team, we're going to roll with him.' "

McNabb said people are trying to dig too deep, that he made his comments not to single out anyone, but to say black quarterbacks have to do a little extra to prove themselves.

"I never said Peyton [Manning] doesn't get criticized," McNabb said. "I never said Carson [Palmer] doesn't get criticized. I never said Tom [Brady] doesn't get criticized, because they do. We get criticized a little differently."

Yeah...I'm thinking my thoughts about "perception" weren't too off base...

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...sep20,1,1780015.story?coll=cs-bears-headlines