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Our D-line on passing downs...

R

real

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I read this interesting snippet from Anthony Weaver:

Asked if the plan is for him is to play tackle on third-down passing situations, he said, "I think that's the game plan right now. On the nickel, I'll go in there so we can get our speed guys at end. That's fine by me. That's what I've done my whole career.
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http://blogs.chron.com/sportsupdate/archives/texans_camp_2007/

So if Weaver is going to go inside on passing plays to allow "speed guys to come in at end" if Mario isn't getting to the QB like we'd like him to should we completely take him out of the game and put Babin and Kalu at DE?

Mario + Weaver at DE = piss poor pass rush

Any suggestions ?
 
I see Mario is the new scapegoat...

We really should give Our players more leeway than one friggin year and a preseason game...really especially at DE.
 
Leahmic223 said:
I see Mario is the new scapegoat...

We really should give Our players more leeway than one friggin year and a preseason game...really especially at DE.
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Seriously. Mario is what, 21 years old? And he is playing on the Dline( a very hard transition from college to pros). Not to mention he had plantar fasciitis the second-half of the season. You can clearly see his production fall after game 7 against the Giants in which he had 2 sacks. I know this is an old argument but it's true.
 
JohnsonFan said:
new? no he has been
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You've just admitted that he was your scapegoat did you not...

That means you unfairly and incorrectly judge his performance, because you put all the blame on him.

You think our Dline isn't as good because of him.

You blame our secondary's poor play because of him.

Also it is very unwise to judge a player off one year...how many times do we have to learn this? Especially when he's had a better rookie year than some pro bowl DEs had as rookies...people are just expecting WAY TOO MUCH from Mario.

DEs and DTs develop a bit slow. Same for Olinemen. You can't say after one average rookie year "That guy is a bust." especially after one year...

For people to say Kalu and Babin are better than Weaver and Mario that is just giving up on Mario.

Also Mario is getting his chance. If the 4th year comes and he has not improved...then he will be benched... Babin had his shot, and he didn't capitalize. Kalu had his shot somewhere and didn't capitalize.

Mario is getting his shot. Travis had his shot and didn't make the most of it, and now he's on the bench 2nd string and he has to work his way back up.

All I am saying and have been saying...Give Mario his shot. Especially since his rookie year wasn't as bad as people want you to beleive. He got a vote or two for DROY if I remember correctly.
 
Let's stay focused on the D-Line as a whole, instead of another Mario thread, OK?

I have this question for anyone who can tell me the answer.

Ready?

When was the last time, (not just last season, I mean EVER, in the entire life of the Texans) that you saw the opponent QB get sacked by the starting DL alone, without a somekind of blitz, of any kind?
 
Leahmic223 said:
You've just admitted that he was your scapegoat did you not...

That means you unfairly and incorrectly judge his performance, because you put all the blame on him.

You think our Dline isn't as good because of him.

You blame our secondary's poor play because of him.

Also it is very unwise to judge a player off one year...how many times do we have to learn this? Especially when he's had a better rookie year than some pro bowl DEs had as rookies...people are just expecting WAY TOO MUCH from Mario.

DEs and DTs develop a bit slow. Same for Olinemen. You can't say after one average rookie year "That guy is a bust." especially after one year...

For people to say Kalu and Babin are better than Weaver and Mario that is just giving up on Mario.

Also Mario is getting his chance. If the 4th year comes and he has not improved...then he will be benched... Babin had his shot, and he didn't capitalize. Kalu had his shot somewhere and didn't capitalize.

Mario is getting his shot. Travis had his shot and didn't make the most of it, and now he's on the bench 2nd string and he has to work his way back up.

All I am saying and have been saying...Give Mario his shot. Especially since his rookie year wasn't as bad as people want you to beleive. He got a vote or two for DROY if I remember correctly.
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wow chill bro i never said that and not me alot of texans fans, i love super mario! i think he is great :d:
 
Leahmic223 said:
Mario is getting his shot. Travis had his shot and didn't make the most of it, and now he's on the bench 2nd string and he has to work his way back up.
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I don't necessarily agree that Travis had his shot. He had one year in a defensive scheme he wasn't ready for, I believe he was backing up some or most of that (though I can't back that up with facts) and then he had a portion of another season before he was knocked out.

I'm not going to excuse his lack of work-ethic in the past but to say he's had his shot and now he's done, when what I hear for the most part is that he's working hard to get in the game, is probably a little premature.
 
Marcus said:
When was the last time, (not just last season, I mean EVER, in the entire life of the Texans) that you saw the opponent QB get sacked by the starting DL alone, without a somekind of blitz, of any kind?
Click to expand...

This a difficult question to answer because, I first need to know if during the Capers 3-4 years you consider the OLB's part of the DL or not, or if you consider them rushing to be a kind of blitz, or not?
 
hadaad said:
I don't necessarily agree that Travis had his shot. He had one year in a defensive scheme he wasn't ready for, I believe he was backing up some or most of that (though I can't back that up with facts) and then he had a portion of another season before he was knocked out.

I'm not going to excuse his lack of work-ethic in the past but to say he's had his shot and now he's done, when what I hear for the most part is that he's working hard to get in the game, is probably a little premature.
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100% correct. In TJ's first year he was backing up a ProBowler, and an established Veteran, in Gary Walker and Jerry DeLoach respectively, so he didn't get on the field much. In his second year he played in 9 games starting 8 of them until he was hurt and missed the remaining 7 games. In my opinion, this year will be the year to see what he can really do.
 
jdog said:
passing downs:

Kalu, Okoye, Weaver, Babin
Click to expand...

Maybe the most effective combo in passing situations, but it'll never happen
because there is just too many politics involved here. They can't possibly pull Mario in passing situations as this would be an overt admission of his inability to put pressure on the QB.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I read this interesting snippet from Anthony Weaver:

http://blogs.chron.com/sportsupdate/archives/texans_camp_2007/

So if Weaver is going to go inside on passing plays to allow "speed guys to come in at end" if Mario isn't getting to the QB like we'd like him to should we completely take him out of the game and put Babin and Kalu at DE?

Mario + Weaver at DE = piss poor pass rush

Any suggestions ?
Click to expand...

I think Weaver gives us a good balance on passing and running downs. You then bring in an edge speed guy on obvious passing downs. Weaver, being a good player, is still on the field, and hopefully you are getting some pressure from your front 4.

Passing downs:

Mario
Okoye
Weaver
Babin

= Quarterback on the ground.

lol
 
I can't understand where Weaver got the reputation as a good pass rusher. He's averaged about 3 sacks per season over his career. If it's not about getting contracts on the field, I'd go with a passing down front of:

LDE - Kalu
LDT - Mario
RDT - Okoye
RDE - Babin

Weaver's not one of the 4 best pass rushers on the team. And for a team without a real good pash rush, that's telling.
 
Lucky said:
I can't understand where Weaver got the reputation as a good pass rusher. He's averaged about 3 sacks per season over his career. If it's not about getting contracts on the field, I'd go with a passing down front of:

LDE - Kalu
LDT - Mario
RDT - Okoye
RDE - Babin

Weaver's not one of the 4 best pass rushers on the team. And for a team without a real good pash rush, that's telling.
Click to expand...

I don't like the idea of moving Mario inside, considering his edge speed is pretty much his best pass rushing asset.

I'd go with
LDE- Babin/Kalu (on a rotation)
LDT- Okoye
RDT- Weaver/Travis Johnson
RDE- Mario

Though, ideally, I'd like to see TJ really step up and just win that spot on passing downs outright.
 
Lucky said:
I can't understand where Weaver got the reputation as a good pass rusher. He's averaged about 3 sacks per season over his career. If it's not about getting contracts on the field, I'd go with a passing down front of:

LDE - Kalu
LDT - Mario
RDT - Okoye
RDE - Babin

Weaver's not one of the 4 best pass rushers on the team. And for a team without a real good pash rush, that's telling.
Click to expand...

Who said he was? When we signed him word was he was one of the premier run stopping DEs in the league.
 
Marcus said:
When was the last time, (not just last season, I mean EVER, in the entire life of the Texans) that you saw the opponent QB get sacked by the starting DL alone, without a somekind of blitz, of any kind?
Click to expand...

You used to see it when you had a healthy Gary Walker and Seth Payne on the field. Since then it has been rare.
 
Lucky said:
I can't understand where Weaver got the reputation as a good pass rusher. He's averaged about 3 sacks per season over his career. If it's not about getting contracts on the field, I'd go with a passing down front of:

LDE - Kalu
LDT - Mario
RDT - Okoye
RDE - Babin

Weaver's not one of the 4 best pass rushers on the team. And for a team without a real good pash rush, that's telling.
Click to expand...

This was actually more along the lines of what I was thinking...

This thread wasn't intended to dog Mario btw...

It's just that Weaver said the plan is for him to go inside on passing downs...And no offense to Mario, but he hasn't shown me anything to suggest that he's a good edge rusher...sorry, that's just the facts of life...The way you guys talk about his "almost" or "coulda been" sacks I'm starting to think the guy is the most un-lucky DE in the world...But having said all that, I think he's too much of a presence to not have on the field...I wouldn't take Okoye out...I'd want Babin in the game...And Quite honestly I'd like Kalu in the game....

We will probably see some combination of every mixture...

I'm just trying to get you guys opinion on what line-up you think would produce the most pressure...
 
Seems to me that this shouldn't be about Mario on passing downs but more about Weaver not being the pass rush specialist that Babin is.

People try to read WAY too much into a simple truth. Weaver's a run stuffing DE and moves to DT on passing downs to get a speedier rusher in.

Duh.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
This was actually more along the lines of what I was thinking...

This thread wasn't intended to dog Mario btw...

It's just that Weaver said the plan is for him to go inside on passing downs...And no offense to Mario, but he hasn't shown me anything to suggest that he's a good edge rusher...sorry, that's just the facts of life...The way you guys talk about his "almost" or "coulda been" sacks I'm starting to think the guy is the most un-lucky DE in the world...But having said all that, I think he's too much of a presence to not have on the field...I wouldn't take Okoye out...I'd want Babin in the game...And Quite honestly I'd like Kalu in the game....

We will probably see some combination of every mixture...

I'm just trying to get you guys opinion on what line-up you think would produce the most pressure...
Click to expand...

Mario looked good speed- and strength-wise against St. Clair the other night. Why would want to move him inside where he has no room to operate and can be doubled more easily?

When Kalu was getting pressure, it seemed that he was stunting inside anyway, so I'd move him in there before Mario.
 
Matt said:
Mario looked good speed- and strength-wise against St. Clair the other night. Why would want to move him inside where he has no room to operate and can be doubled more easily?

When Kalu was getting pressure, it seemed that he was stunting inside anyway, so I'd move him in there before Mario.
Click to expand...

I'm going to resist the urge to respond to the Mario portion of your post, but I will say that he doesn't look as good as Babin nor Kalu rushing from the edge.....In fact I venture to say Earl Cochran and Shantee Orr look better getting after the passer from the outside...

I just don't know if he is our "best" option to have rushing on the edge if we are trying to apply pressure...

I'm looking for what would be our best pressure d-line, and the thought of Weaver getting after the QB scares me...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I'm going to resist the urge to respond to the Mario portion of your post, but I will say that he doesn't look as good as Babin nor Kalu rushing from the edge.....In fact I venture to say Earl Cochran and Shantee Orr look better getting after the passer from the outside...

I just don't know if he is our "best" option to have rushing on the edge if we are trying to apply pressure...

I'm looking for what would be our best pressure d-line, and the thought of Weaver getting after the QB scares me...
Click to expand...

Babin was playing against 2nd and 3rd string O-Lineman not 1st string like Mario.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I'm going to resist the urge to respond to the Mario portion of your post, but I will say that he doesn't look as good as Babin nor Kalu rushing from the edge.....In fact I venture to say Earl Cochran and Shantee Orr look better getting after the passer from the outside...

I just don't know if he is our "best" option to have rushing on the edge if we are trying to apply pressure...

I'm looking for what would be our best pressure d-line, and the thought of Weaver getting after the QB scares me...
Click to expand...

He also only has one year of experience, rather than 3 or more, and is learning the position while dealing with people dissecting every step he takes. He is far and away the fastest off the edge and the strength he showed riding St. Clair back into Grossman's lap wasn't present last season. Kalu looked good, but, like I said, neither of his really impressive plays were on a straight edge rush--they came on stunts and/or twists. I would have no problem flipping Mario to the strongside on obvious passing downs, where he can use his strength as much or more than his speed, but I think it makes no sense to move him inside. And I think it makes his life even harder with regard to how Joe Fan views him if Mario is not on the field in passing situations, so that's not really an option.

So, to answer your question, I think the most pressure comes from sheer speed off the ends (Mario and Babin) and power up the middle (Travis/Maddox and Amobi/Weaver/(and maybe Kalu) in some combination)
 
Matt said:
He is far and away the fastest off the edge and the strength he showed riding St. Clair back into Grossman's lap wasn't present last season.
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As an aside, just how good is St. Clair at his tackle position?
 
b0ng said:
As an aside, just how good is St. Clair at his tackle position?
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He was the backup LT for the Bears behind Tait.

I too wondered how good he was... if nothing he has an experience advantage of Mario which is a significant factor given that Mario always used his giftedness not his craft up till last year.
 
BattleRedToro said:
Babin was playing against 2nd and 3rd string O-Lineman not 1st string like Mario.
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In the Bears game, they played St. Claire for quite a while. They didn't pull the first string offensive line with Grossman; or at least, they kept the 1st string in the rotation. I'll have to check but Babin played on both sides of the line and I think he got some pressure playing against St. Claire. Both Babin and Kalu got pressure playing against the RT.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
In the Bears game, they played St. Claire for quite a while. They didn't pull the first string offensive line with Grossman; or at least, they kept the 1st string in the rotation. I'll have to check but Babin played on both sides of the line and I think he got some pressure playing against St. Claire. Both Babin and Kalu got pressure playing against the RT.
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I don't know if St. Clair was in the game when Babin flashed his speed in running down Ced Ben from behind.

As for how good St. Clair is, after a REALLY rough rookie year in St. Louis, he's become a pretty good LT. Over the last two seasons, he's played in all 32 games (4 starts) and only allowed 2 sacks. In his last season as a starter (2004), he started 14 games and only allowed 4.5.
 
BattleRedToro said:
Babin was playing against 2nd and 3rd string O-Lineman not 1st string like Mario.
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Mario was going against a second string OT, but that's not even relevant...

Mario came off the ball high, he looked sluggish, and was a non factor...

I'm not sure what you guys are seeing in MArio at this point, but I want to win, and in order to win we need a good pass rush...

I honestly believe MArio at DE doesn't give us the best pass rush unit we could have...
 
kiwitexansfan said:
He was the backup LT for the Bears behind Tait.

I too wondered how good he was... if nothing he has an experience advantage of Mario which is a significant factor given that Mario always used his giftedness not his craft up till last year.
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The excuses can't go on for ever...

At some point he's going to have to start winnig battles against these more experienced players...
 
Matt said:
He also only has one year of experience, rather than 3 or more, and is learning the position while dealing with people dissecting every step he takes.
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I don't understand how that makes us a better team...

It's year two fellas...Mario has a slew of games left to prove himself...

He'll be getting significant tick today...

I will be watching and hoping to see a more improved Mario out on the field since he'll have almost a half of play to 'get warmed up'...
 
I too hope to see Mario's play improved today. I also agree that it might be better to start Mario at LDE and Babin at RDE, rather than Weaver at LDE and Mario at RDE. I wish the coaches would atleast give it a try during preseason, but I don't think they will after making the statement that they will be playing Mario exclusively at RDE this year.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Mario was going against a second string OT, but that's not even relevant...

Mario came off the ball high, he looked sluggish, and was a non factor...

I'm not sure what you guys are seeing in MArio at this point, but I want to win, and in order to win we need a good pass rush...

I honestly believe MArio at DE doesn't give us the best pass rush unit we could have...
Click to expand...

If he actually comes out and makes plays today, it will be bittersweet. It will show that he purposely didn't play with effort last week.

But if he plays the same as he did last week, I'll go with your take that Mario just doesn't have it. Guess we'll see soon enough.

Well, I saw. There goes any legitimate argument that he just wasn't giving his all. He was out there giving his all. He just wasn't getting it done.

"Oh, wait a minute . . it's freakin preseason."

Yeah. Right.
 
Marcus said:
If he actually comes out and makes plays today, it will be bittersweet. It will show that he purposely didn't play with effort last week.

But if he plays the same as he did last week, I'll go with your take that Mario just doesn't have it. Guess we'll see soon enough.

Well, I saw. There goes any legitimate argument that he just wasn't giving his all. He was out there giving his all. He just wasn't getting it done.

"Oh, wait a minute . . it's freakin preseason."

Yeah. Right.
Click to expand...



Mario looked terrible. The end.


Doesn't mean he can't one day become a great player, but I honestly don't see it any time soon.

He's not even playing at an average level IMHO.

Hopefully I am dead wrong, but I'm just not satisfied with what he's doing.
 
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