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Banks on Schaub
- Thread starter Texans Horror
- Start date
This should be an interesting dicussion... 
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
The one thing the writer didn't really acknowledge is where the guys played and who they played under. Levy was gone at Buffalo and you are in a totally different environment. Schaub is being tutored by a QB guy who has had success tutoring QBs. The Buffalo situation was a mess with Phillips and Gregg Williams. Apples and oranges to me.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
The Kubiak/Smith era is riding on Schaub being a success.
IMO, the Texans didn't have to trade for Schaub to get to 8-8 in 2007.
Just because you get divorced, doesn't mean you have to get remarried.
Flexibility would have been nice in 2008, but marketing seems to always trump most things in the Texans decision making regarding the QB position (except for one instant in 2006 in the 1st round of the draft).
IMO, the Texans didn't have to trade for Schaub to get to 8-8 in 2007.
Just because you get divorced, doesn't mean you have to get remarried.
Flexibility would have been nice in 2008, but marketing seems to always trump most things in the Texans decision making regarding the QB position (except for one instant in 2006 in the 1st round of the draft).
hollywood_texan
All Pro
Kubiak hasn't had much success in his first year at the Texans in QB decisions.
eriadoc
Texan-American
He's just about spot on. Schaub has a lot to prove. I don't fault the Texans for taking a chance there, and I don't fault them for making a move to correct an earlier mistake. Some would like to bash the Texans for that earlier mistake, but to me, they owned it and made a move to correct it. We'll see if it works out, but at least they made a move to try and improve the team.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
The mistake that you are referring to, is it Carr?
The Texans made more than one mistake with Carr.
It first started in drafting him, and then I could go on and on...
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
How was that his fault? So you sweep all his success with QBs out and because the team resigns Carr, forces his hand, and Carr fails, Kubes didn't do his job? What did you expect? You ever hear of lipstick on a pig...there you go. If you are in anyway talking about VY, Carr, etc, etc...then Kubes really didn't have a choice.
Texans Horror
All Pro
I think Rob Johnson is a worst-case scenario. Schaub has better tools and coaches around him (e.g., Kubiak) than Rob did, so while I am not sold on his instant-success, I think in the end Schaub will end up a much better QB and a solid choice.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
There is an old saying, "the buck stops here."
Kubiak shouldn't have taken the job then.
If an owner is pushing personnel decisions on you, that should be a big red flag.
So, yes I blame Kubiak regarding Carr.
I would have preferred VY, but there were 2 other highly regarded QBs to choose from at #1 last year. An excellent opportunity lost in my opinion. Not to mention, saving $8 million.
If Schaub doesn't live up to expectations, Kubiak is not the QB guru that everybody thinks he is or he is just a "yes man" to McNair.
Either way, his head coaching career will be suffering.
Had Schaub been traded to a media darling team, he would have been compared to Brett Favre. A young Falcon QB who wasn't going to start, dealt to a QB hungry team for the equivalent of a 1st round pick. But, Schaub went to Houston. So we have to dig up the worst possible comparison. So typical.
powerfuldragon
Enchilada Aficionado.
shoulda picked vince.
/runs away.
/runs away.
Malloy
Hall of Fame
No, but the goal is not to just be 8-8 in 2007. The Texans probably could have gone 8-8 without Schaub this year, but it's unlikely that they would improve on that next year and THAT is really the goal. If the Texans go 8-8 this year and then 8-8 again next year, that's not so good. But if they go 8-8 this year and then 10-6 next year, that's good.
Don't measure the Schaub trade based on this years record.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
That is alot of "if"s. When guys interview in the NFL and need to get their foot in the door then they take on many things...past coaches players, staff and owners who have agendas. Saying he should not have taken the job is easy to say and in my book a ridiculous statement. The Carr signing, which wasn't in Kubes hands, was placed on his lap. Therefore all the dominos you laid out were out of his hands. His job starts now. What you are saying is that any QB out there can be fixed by a "QB guy." That makes no sense considering the NFL is littered with sub-par QBs. You simplified a situation way too much. NOW, if he can't get Schaub to work after a couple of years then he is in trouble but to start in on him after 1 year is beyond myopic. Schaub was Kubiak and Smiths first jump into the fray and they have to live with it. Expecting miracles in Year 1....not sure what to say. The goal is to progressively build into a consistent winner.
This article blatantly ignores any comparison between Schaub and Johnson other than they were both backup QBs with one good game under them. I'd like to think Kubes and Smith looked at more than just that one game before making a decision.
I don't remember the Rob Johnson era all that well, but I do remember that he wasn't a great leader with his teammates, he was slow to make decisions, and he didn't have the greatest work ethic.
So far, and yes I know there's not a lot to go on, Schaub seems to be passing all those tests.
I don't remember the Rob Johnson era all that well, but I do remember that he wasn't a great leader with his teammates, he was slow to make decisions, and he didn't have the greatest work ethic.
So far, and yes I know there's not a lot to go on, Schaub seems to be passing all those tests.
R
real
Guest
Signed,
A guy who hasn't spent most of their adult life employed by the NFL and doesn't have a passion for coaching
GP
Go Texans!
The writer says the comparison is eerily similar?
It's far from it.
What the writer FAILED (in a big way) to do, is to connect how Schaub also has a laid-back surfer dude attitude like he describes Ron Johnson as having.
1. Schaub is not similar to Rob Johnson in terms of personality.
2. Schaub was an accomplished QB in a WCO for several years, and now is running a WCO-type of system under Kubiak and Little Shanny...two guys who obviously know what they're doing with QBs/WRs.
Our o-line and possibly the run game, with assistance from Kubiak/Sherman, reduced QB sacks by 26 from 2005 to 2006. Carr had several games where he did not get sacked even once, and yet what did David "do" in those games? He went 16-for-20something and about 160 yards vs. Indy...that's what he did. How do you stay un-sacked and go for 160 yards in an entire game? David is stale bread. Period.
I am not ready to anoint Schaub as a HOF'er and fit his golden blazer yet...but I am fairly confident that it cannot get worse with Schaub at QB.
ABD (Anybody But David) is OK with me. We went five years with the guy, he got rich, we got hosed, and we deserve a new direction at QB.
It's far from it.
What the writer FAILED (in a big way) to do, is to connect how Schaub also has a laid-back surfer dude attitude like he describes Ron Johnson as having.
1. Schaub is not similar to Rob Johnson in terms of personality.
2. Schaub was an accomplished QB in a WCO for several years, and now is running a WCO-type of system under Kubiak and Little Shanny...two guys who obviously know what they're doing with QBs/WRs.
Our o-line and possibly the run game, with assistance from Kubiak/Sherman, reduced QB sacks by 26 from 2005 to 2006. Carr had several games where he did not get sacked even once, and yet what did David "do" in those games? He went 16-for-20something and about 160 yards vs. Indy...that's what he did. How do you stay un-sacked and go for 160 yards in an entire game? David is stale bread. Period.
I am not ready to anoint Schaub as a HOF'er and fit his golden blazer yet...but I am fairly confident that it cannot get worse with Schaub at QB.
ABD (Anybody But David) is OK with me. We went five years with the guy, he got rich, we got hosed, and we deserve a new direction at QB.
R
real
Guest
Any QB that they are going to go after is going to be evaluated by the Texans...not the hype machine that is ESPN....
Question: If the Texans evaluated Schaub and came to the conclusion that he was a QB that could take this team to the next level, why should they wait and take a gamble that a QB would be available next year, when they had what they wanted this year ?
That doesn't make any sense...
That's almost like saying the Miami Dolphins have an ideal QB situation.
R
real
Guest
The end.
Porky
Hall of Fame
quicksilver
Overweight
Something else to consider is that Kubiak and Smith had the recommendation of Bill Musgrave that Schaub has what it takes to succeed. Musgrave backed up Elway while Kubiak was QB coach in Denver, and Musgrave coached Schaub both in college and in Atlanta.
Who personally vouched for Rob J to the Buffalo staff?
Who personally vouched for Rob J to the Buffalo staff?
R
real
Guest
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
Didn't Kubes get the "QB Guru" by taking claim for John Elway's career?
Brister= Bust
Brian Griese= Bust
Plummer= Had his moments
Carr= Bust
If Kubes knew he had a shot at Golden Boy Quinn, I'm not sure they make the trade for Schaub, unless he thinks his job is on the line already.
Brister= Bust
Brian Griese= Bust
Plummer= Had his moments
Carr= Bust
If Kubes knew he had a shot at Golden Boy Quinn, I'm not sure they make the trade for Schaub, unless he thinks his job is on the line already.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
This is the Texans until they win .
Perhaps...except for that whole messy situation about Young is not a WCO QB. Minor detail, of course.
If a frog had wings it wouldn't hit it's butt every time it jumps.
What, exactly, is the point of a constant "what if" game? Seriously, what's done is done, and no matter who you want to 'blame', Carr was signed and is gone, a mistake owned by the FO, we didn't pick Cutler, Young, Leinart, or Quinn, and Schaub is our starter. End of story. Period.
We'll live and die with Schaub, and while I certainly understand the doubts right now, I'm lost about the abject pessimism regarding the guy.
Don't forget being Steve Young's QB coach during his MVP and Super Bowl Champion season.
Obviously Kubiak is a hack because he couldn't fix YKW. Riiiiiiiiiight.
And please don't tell me you give Brady Quinn the benefit of the doubt but don't afford the same to Schaub.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Brister started with the Steelers ... in fact I had to watch a playoff game where they showed his Mom 1000 times .
Griese had his moments and still plays .
Carr .... Benny Hinn could have cured him .
Griese I'll give you, but he's looked horrible everywhere else.
But how was a Brister who had been out of football for a year and came in to play backup for a year a bust.
As for Plummer, look what he's done with Kubes... then look at last year.
I think
Mike
Certainly an unpopular take in these parts, but nevertheless accurate IMO.
And if Carr's retention was basically McNair call, for the sake of Kubiaks credibiltity we should have got a more definitive disclosure from the owner.
But I do totally support the trade for Schaub. Very expensive and very risky but worth it, really necessary assuming Schaubs our guy.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Don't forget being Steve Young's QB coach during his MVP and Super Bowl Champion season.
Obviously Kubiak is a hack because he couldn't fix YKW. Riiiiiiiiiight.
And please don't tell me you give Brady Quinn the benefit of the doubt but don't afford the same to Schaub.
You beat me to it. He also failed to mention what Plummer's career consisted of while in Az and what he did in Denver. Tale of two cities. His "moments" were mostly under one coach.
R
real
Guest
Sure...
That's why Quinn fell all the way to 22....
Because he was such a hott commodity...gotcha
hollywood_texan
All Pro
Being a successful coach is hard enough, it becomes next to impossible if you take on an untouchable golden boy.
If Kubiak couldn't handle that situation, he better learn from it and figure out how to handle it in the future.
Kubiak is the head coach and is paid accordingly. Which means he is responsible. Just because he acquiescenced to the Carr decision doesn't mean he isn't responsible.
He is responsible!
And so far his so-called great QB guru skills for the Houston Texans has produced squat (the Carr resigning, not picking a QB at #1 last year, dumping Carr)! You don't have to be football expert to realize that Kubiak has made very poor decisions regarding the QB position.
So now he has doubled down and bet the house.
Kubiak could be smelling like a rose by the middle of the season with Schaub, but so far, he has gotten off to a terrible start. If Schaub doesn't pan out, trust me they are going to start at the beginning of his mistakes, Carr and #1 draft pick of 2006.
I am not starting in on Kubiak, it's a fact Kubiak has gotten off to a rough start at the QB position.
I never said I was expecting miracles.
My opinion is they could have gone with Sage and been flexible in the future. There is so much QB talent out there. If they really believe Schaub is the guy, then great. But sometimes, people have to get married after they get divorced. Sometimes teams have to get a QB because there is an opening, example Culpepper. Very different situation, but the Texans didn't have to make move on the position, unless you really factor in marketing concerns.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
If he took Carr on with the deck stacked against him, that is his choice.
Kubiak should get no freebes whatsoever. It's his career on the line and should speak up accordingly
He still made a decision and is a grown man that can take the responsibility.
Kubiak is paid pretty well anyway, and doesn't deserve any sympathy or kid-glove treatment.
I think there is some risk in Schaub. He has limited game experience and until he plays full time, there will be unanswered questions. He might succeed, he might not. There is little evidence for knowledge either way. Belief, however, is another story.
The coaching staff is staking a lot on Schaub. They paid a high price and he has to be successful for this staff to succeed. There won't be any do overs in a couiple of years if he busts.
The coaching staff is staking a lot on Schaub. They paid a high price and he has to be successful for this staff to succeed. There won't be any do overs in a couiple of years if he busts.
hadaad
Rookie
I agree with hollywood on this one. Kubiak is paid to coach and last year, when things weren't going so well, he would constantly say things like: "This one's on us as coaches, this one's on me, this is my fault etc."
That came across as disingenuous at the time and it still struck me the wrong way. If it's your fault Carr wasn't ready to play, why are you here and why is he gone? It seems to me that Kubiak feels he has a long enough leash that he can take the blame for things that aren't his fault so that he will silently get the credit when things go right.
However, this is an important year for Kubiak, in my opinion. He has to show that with the guy that HE selected, his offense can be dominant against defenses like Jacksonville's.
I like the Schaub pick-up. It was a clear communication to me that this franchise has taken off its diapers. If production isn't there, the position will be upgraded. Sure, it was an expensive lesson but why not go with a guy you think can do the job?
And I sure hope that Schaub can do the job.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
I'm not sure where to start here because there is so much generalization.
1) Kubiak handled the situation as any coach would. He gave him the tools and the guy didn't pan out. Therefore he is gone. What you aren't grasping is that the decision was made to keep Carr before the hire. According to your philosophy our only choice was to take the worst coach possible....because only a weak man would take a QB that was forced on him. That is what your statement amounts to. Your stating he is responsible for a move that the owner made and a lame duck GM signed off on doesn't make it so. He wasn't even running that draft. So he had no responsibilty but to coach and scout to the best of his ability. The QB was a 4 year failure. Again, lipstick on a pig. I'm not sure what is hard to understand about this. Your either stating that we were stuck with a lame coach or that Kubiak was making the decisions. Both are false. The first decision he has made regarding QBs is to persue Schaub. Please understand that. He could only try and work with what he had. Once Carr was resigned, the drafting of a QB and everything else you stated was non-existent.
2) Where did you get that there are so many QBs out there?LMAO. Dude, the league is saturated with hacks who can barely play back-up and most college guys never pan out. That is such an over the top blanket statement, I don't even know what to say.
Kubiak has been here a year and got a top FA QB. His job will rest on the move. You are reaching with the "rough start" thing. I really wish people would be a little more realistic about what happens in the NFL. Coaches take jobs with stipulations daily. A guy with no head coaching background isn't going to tell the owner what to do if he wants the job. During the season, there is something called coach speak where a guy has to toe the company line until he can get "his" guys in. Some of you are acting like a new coach can come in start disrupting anything they want.
This is the real "Year 1." He made the moves. He took responsibility, along with Smith. He took a leap of faith.
R
real
Guest
But, But, But, But....
David is gone and Kubiak is still here...
Maybe David oughtta think twice before being drafted #1 overall next time...
What you're saying is not relevant because for all you know Kubiak's whole plan could have been to ditch David asap, and go in a different direction...
My point is that it's easy for you to sit here and say that a man should ahve turned down his dream job because it wasn't the "perfect" situation...That's bologna....and you know it....
David Carr being here has no affect on Kubiak's tenure nor success here in Houston so I'm not really getting your point...
hollywood_texan
All Pro
First, I am not going to give Kubiak a pass on the issue with Carr in any way whatsoever.
Second, nothing Kubiak has done in his first year has shown he is a QB guru. For that matter, anyone could have done what Kubiak did with Carr, which was the same thing that Capers did with Carr.
Third, Schuab may not pan out, see my first and second points.
Fourth, I didn't say there are many QBs out there with superior talent, but that doesn't mean you have to land Schaub immediately. Again, that goes back to the attitude of, well I am getting divorced, so I need to get remarried.
I am not saying Schaub is a bust. That remains to be seen, but something needs to be shown by midway point of the season. I am not talking about necessarily wins, but some performance of plays that shows he is the guy that can be a top tier QB.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
Kubiak does not get a free pass on anything in my opinion, including David Carr.
That is why he is the head coach!
R
real
Guest
I don't understand this line of thinking...
If there is little evidence that Schaub would be successful why was he THE most coveted F/A QB and why did we even go after him ? There has to be something about the guy, because if we spent two seconds on a guy who we're just taking a 50/50 shot on with "little knowledge either way" I'd be pissed and I'd expect everyone else to feel the same way...
Obviously there are a lot of people who think he'll be successful...myself included....
And no it's not based on a "belief"...It's based on evidence....
Then there are those that choose to ignore the positives and all the things that point towards him being successful here in Houston and going with the what "if" viewpoint....
Whatever floats your boat I guess....
* Any QB we brought in after David was going to be unproven on this level...If they were proven then we wouldn't have gottne them, or we would still be needing a young player to groom...Kubiak and the organization saw something in Schaub that they liked so they went after him.....This decision was based on knowledge and research and not some peeing in the wind whim they got....
R
real
Guest
What are you talking about ?
He's a human...Humans make mistakes...I'm not saying he did indeed make a mistake or do something wrong, but if he did so what...
Do you want to spank him now ? Take away his lollie pop ? What is your point ?
Has there ever been a headcoach that never made a poor decision or questionalbe move ? There have been coaches to pick first round bust yet go on to win it all...
I really don't understand where you're trying to go with this, unless your point is that Kubiaks assumed failire with David Carr means he's not the guru that he was thought to be....If thats your assertation, then that's just silly...
hollywood_texan
All Pro
There are no guarantees Schaub will be successful.
I think he will be just fine.though
But, the Schaub decision doesn't mean the decisions Kubiak made before Schaub were right. Other than the screwups he made before made the opportunity to make the decision to get Schaub.
Bottom line, Kubiak's first year of QBs decisions are terrible with the exception of Schaub because we don't know yet. Schaub could just be a another item to add to the list.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
This post is why a football debate with you right now is worthless. You have stated nothing but wild generalizations. Basically that "Schaub might not be good" because YOU stated Carr was bad and anyone could have coached him. How ridiculous is that?You still haven't stated why you won't give Kubes a pass but you would have rather had the worse coach available....after all, only weak man would have taken this job. By the way, I'm glad Carr is gone but we did win more games and our sacks went down so Kubiak did something. Your whole attitude towards a coach taking over a poorly run organization is so unrealistic. You did say there were QBs out there..like they were growing on trees..."There is so much QB talent out there." It is false. There are unknowns and very few top flight guys in the league. Are the one who called 610 and asked when Sage would start?I'm done beating my head..lol. Did you ever think Kubes made good decisions...and one was to play his hand, watch it fail and then put his people in place?Afterall, they weren't going to win last year. I forgot, you expected perfection and the playoffs.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
Point is, you keep making decisions like that, and you get fired.
Schaub could be just an addition to another long list of reasons why Kubiak is not a QB guru.
Kubiak is running out of chances. Point is, Carr was a chance he burned. That's why he shouldn't have accepted that if he didn't want it in the first place.
This thread is too funny! First, our fan base was founded on making excuses for our qb. Second, the media bought into the excuses and defended the qb's poor play and lack of results,
Now, finally, that fan base and media are on the same page---all without the new qb even starting a game, yet. And, did they even mention the OL...maybe they did-I was laughing so hard I was crying...
Now, finally, that fan base and media are on the same page---all without the new qb even starting a game, yet. And, did they even mention the OL...maybe they did-I was laughing so hard I was crying...
hollywood_texan
All Pro
Talk about generalizations, you are completely generalizing me.
Example, I am not expecting playoffs and never mentioned that in this thread. You make several other assumptions about my comments but are reading way too much into them.
Look, Kubiak has made poor QB decisions thus far. Schaub is another unknown risk no matter what you say.
Kubiak should not get a free pass on Carr in any way what so ever.
If you wanna say I am generalizing, well, that is what a message board is for.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
R
real
Guest
Or he could be the greatest thing since canned pineapples....
Then what does that do to his legacy, and guru status ?
Better yet, what does it do to this whole conversation ?
I'm sorry...I didn't realize it was that crucial Mr. McNai...errrr....hollywood_texan...
LOL...What are you gonna do ? Fire him yourself ?