Schaub Listed As Top Breakout Star for 2007

[Texans Horror]

Maybe I am missing something, but what position has been over looked?

For starters, OT, Center, CB, S.

OT: Salaam being the back-up tackle, I don't feel comfortable with him starting. Black and Frye are not answers. Depth maybe, but that's depth starting, too.

Center: IR was pointed out earlier as a reason for adding depth. Well, Flanagan isn't getting any younger, and he was out a good portion of last season. We can probably anticipate him being out for a similar amount of time this year, too. Hodgdon was pulled after half a game. That's when McKinney came in. So this is a very weak link that has not been answered.

Defensive Backs: Lot of depth here. Not much high-quality starter material. The two guys drafted are for depth only. Again, this is one of the Texans' weakest areas. Something could have been done but was not. This is where somebody like Houston in the second round could have helped out big-time.

No team can address every single position in the offseason.

No, but I would have preferred them to address some of the weaker positions.

It is up to the individual if he or she wants to be jumping to the back-up before more than half of the season is played out but why put it on others and how they act during the first game if you are or not optimistic.

Well said!

 

[HOU-TEX]

No, but I would have preferred them to address some of the weaker positions.

QB was the weakest position after last season. I'm not sure there were any other positions that we had to dumb down the playbook in order to get any kind of production out of. .

 

[Second Honeymoon]

Personally, I felt that Jake Plummer would have been the right way to go, simply because he would have came cheap. I also felt that Sage had earned a shot at competing v. Jake as well. Obviously the Texans brass wanted to go a different direction and in the end we didn't overpay for Schaub. We were still able to get a great prospect in Okoye at #10 and basically chose Schaub instead of a Kalil or other 2nd round prospect in the 2nd Round.

Not that bad. I bet Atlanta wish they still had Schaub.....

 

[dalemurphy]

QB was the weakest position after last season. I'm not sure there were any other positions that we had to dumb down the playbook in order to get any kind of production out of. .

The defense was dumbed down to accomodate to rookie starters: mario and demeco... That's one reason for optimism- it's the second season for all of these impact rookies that grew up last season.

 

[MEGA SWATT]

Link

More good press for our Texans. Also, go answer the poll question on the page. Looks like a bunch of bitter Falcons fans are the only ones to have reponded so far.

cool, I hope so(break-out season) I voted for MS

 

[Grams]

Audie Murphy, the highly decorated WWII hero, often fought battles against vastly superior forces. But he led his men, outnumbered and outgunned as they were, to victory every time.

The moral of the story is that a good leader can elevate those around him.

Case in point - Joe Montana.
The first year they won the Super Bowl (80-81). With 2 minutes left in a game and the 49ers down, Joe walks into the huddle, you can see in his eyes that he believes he can get the team close enough to make wth winning score. That is what leadership will do.

When Peyton is sacked you will usually see most of his OL back helping him up. Who helped DC up - ususally no one. DC lost this team a long time ago.

Schaub is a leader while he may not be Joe Montana, he is definitely a large upgrade over David Carr.

 

[Texans Horror]

I've heard through that DC fought for his linemen (I think most QBs do). The argument that the guys up front didn't care for him or didn't want to block for him, or that AJ didn't like him, just doesn't hold water against what I have heard.

I'm not saying your wrong or that MS will not make a good leader. Just saying that from what I've heard Texans offensive players liked the guy and thought highly of him. If only he could have read defenses better and not run out of bounds so much...

 

[brakos82]

I bet Atlanta wish they still had Schaub.....

We knida screwed them over. An extra 2nd rounder next year isn't worth losing 3 extra games over.

 

[Texanmike02]

I'm not saying he was a bad choice, I'm just saying we gave up a lot for an unproven 2nd stringer when we already have an unproven 2nd stringer on the team. Is Sage as good as Schaub? Most folks think not, but I would have rather started Sage and drafted a newbie QB to train. We still haven't improved the OL, and Schaub or any QB starting for the Texas is going to feel the pain. I would have rather sacrificed Sage to the wolves while the new guy was training than to have acquired a new starting QB and throw him immediately into the game with a poor OL. If they don't improve that OL during next offseason then we'll just end up with another deer-in-the-headlights QB.

You've got that wrong man.

We gave up 2 2nd rounders for an unproven 1st stringer (noone is sure but everyone thinks he can start and be a damn good one at that).

We have a PROVEN 2nd stringer on our bench. Sage couldn't beat out HWWNBN or even JAY FREAKING FIEDLER. He is probably closest to Cody Carlson, if you're going to tie him to a former Houston QB. He has great leadership, but just doesn't have the tools to start full time.

Mike

 

[Vinny]

The offseason is too long...I have a hard time being critical of the players before they take one live snap in our offense. Pre-emptive QB bashing just seems so weak. I kinda like to hammer the guys who play poorly and praise the guys who play well based on what happens on the field myself...the season can't start soon enough for me.

 

[Texans_Chick]

I'm not saying he was a bad choice, I'm just saying we gave up a lot for an unproven 2nd stringer when we already have an unproven 2nd stringer on the team. Is Sage as good as Schaub? Most folks think not, but I would have rather started Sage and drafted a newbie QB to train. We still haven't improved the OL, and Schaub or any QB starting for the Texas is going to feel the pain. I would have rather sacrificed Sage to the wolves while the new guy was training than to have acquired a new starting QB and throw him immediately into the game with a poor OL. If they don't improve that OL during next offseason then we'll just end up with another deer-in-the-headlights QB.

A few comments...

As for the 2007 draft class of QBs, I say meh. I'm not sure any of those guys are worth grooming. If you say Quinn, there was no guarantee that Quinn was going to be available at 8. (Besides Quinn makes me say meh).

I'd rather have Schaub + Rosenfels versus Rosenfels + noob QB from class of 2007.

As for the offensive line, though there are not that many teams that would trade straight up for our line, it is quite possible that QB change plus RB change really does make the line look better. (See Tony Romo, Steve McNair as recent examples of the QB effect on line play). Andre Johnson said that ocho viejo was originally coached to throw to certain receivers on the field and not read the defenses and had to be re-taught. And clearly, everyone agrees going into last season with a bunch of rookie running backs and trust them with figuring out how to run and do protection was asking a little much.

Here's a further discussion of this:

Link: David Carr of the Offensive Line: The Chicken Egg Question

and here:

Link: Does Video Lie: David Carr v. Matt Schaub

I'm going to probably write some more on the offensive line stuff soonishly. I don't know if Schaub or Rosenfels are going to make this offense run better, but what I do know is what they had wasn't working, and the other offseason options available out there were not terribly compelling.

 

[Brando]

A few comments...

As for the 2007 draft class of QBs, I say meh. I'm not sure any of those guys are worth grooming. If you say Quinn, there was no guarantee that Quinn was going to be available at 8. (Besides Quinn makes me say meh).

I'd rather have Schaub + Rosenfels versus Rosenfels + noob QB from class of 2007.

As for the offensive line, though there are not that many teams that would trade straight up for our line, it is quite possible that QB change plus RB change really does make the line look better. (See Tony Romo, Steve McNair as recent examples of the QB effect on line play). Andre Johnson said that ocho viejo was originally coached to throw to certain receivers on the field and not read the defenses and had to be re-taught. And clearly, everyone agrees going into last season with a bunch of rookie running backs and trust them with figuring out how to run and do protection was asking a little much.

Here's a further discussion of this:

Link: David Carr of the Offensive Line: The Chicken Egg Question

and here:

Link: Does Video Lie: David Carr v. Matt Schaub

I'm going to probably write some more on the offensive line stuff soonishly. I don't know if Schaub or Rosenfels are going to make this offense run better, but what I do know is what they had wasn't working, and the other offseason options available out there were not terribly compelling.

I think you need to go work for ESPN so they can get some real insight on the Texans, they need it. TC great write up as always. Gotta like the word "soonishly".

 

[nunusguy]

As for the 2007 draft class of QBs, I say meh. I'm not sure any of those guys are worth grooming. If you say Quinn, there was no guarantee that Quinn was going to be available at 8. (Besides Quinn makes me say meh).
I'd rather have Schaub + Rosenfels versus Rosenfels + noob QB from class of 2007.
As for the offensive line, though there are not that many teams that would trade straight up for our line, it is quite possible that QB change plus RB change really does make the line look better. (See Tony Romo, Steve McNair as recent examples of the QB effect on line play). Andre Johnson said that ocho viejo was originally coached to throw to certain receivers on the field and not read the defenses and had to be re-taught. And clearly, everyone agrees going into last season with a bunch of rookie running backs and trust them with figuring out how to run and do protection was asking a little much.
Here's a further discussion of this:

It's not like Schaub is anything remotely close to a slam-dunk as a solid NFL QB either. I think he's less of a risk than drafting a rookie QB right out of college. But there were a couple of other rookie QBs who many thought were atleast as good a prospect as Quinn, and the least of whom of course was the local product out of UofH.
But if we get into hypotheticals, how about this one: instead of using those two #2s on Schaub, go ahead and parlay next years #2, this years third rounder, along with our top pick and trade positions with the Browns and draft Joe Thomas. With this years #2 take the best QB on the Board, let him develope, and play Rosenfels in 2007 after dumping DC.
But to be finally set at LT and for the long-term with somebody like Thomas would be huge. Is there risk that he won't be the success in the NFL that a lot have predicted ? Sure, but I dunno if the risk is any higher than that of Schaub at QB ?

 

[Vinny]

It's not like Schaub is anything remotely close to a slam-dunk as a solid NFL QB either. I think he's less of a risk than drafting a rookie QB right out of college. But there were a couple of other rookie QBs who many thought were atleast as good a prospect as Quinn, and the least of whom of course was the local product out of UofH.
But if we get into hypotheticals, how about this one: instead of using those two #2s on Schaub, go ahead and parlay next years #2, this years third rounder, along with our top pick and trade positions with the Browns and draft Joe Thomas. With this years #2 take the best QB on the Board, let him develope, and play Rosenfels in 2007 after dumping DC.
But to be finally set at LT and for the long-term with somebody like Thomas would be huge. Is there risk that he won't be the success in the NFL that a lot have predicted ? Sure, but I dunno if the risk is any higher than that of Schaub at QB ?

many X higher than Schaub.....Schaub has been in this offense for 6 years....Schaub has 3 NFL training camps under his belt and won't need 2-3 years to "groom"...pssst, he is already "groomed". Kubiak may only get one chance ever to coach a NFL team. I'm sure he wouldn't want to look back and see that his only QB's during this time was the incredible self sacking QB and Sage "I can't even beat out 2nd string Dolphin chump QBs" Rosenfels. Schaub would probably be a Raider if we didn't make the move....he was the most "ready" QB on the market with upside. Rosenfels = Gifford Neilson.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

The one position that can change your team the most is QB . The team usually goes as he goes ( I know Ray Lewis and others ) .

If your QB gets to practice at 5:30 am , even beating the coach ... the team will work harder longer . Lombardi said .... the harder a man works , the harder it is for him to quit .

Schaub has already tried to cover for his guys . After all the Carolina Carr talk about how great it is to be with a real team ... Schaub was asked what he thought was the strength of the offense was ... he said the OL ... he's not dumb .

 

[nunusguy]

many X higher than Schaub.....Schaub has been in this offense for 6 years....Schaub has 3 NFL training camps under his belt and won't need 2-3 years to "groom"...pssst, he is already "groomed". Kubiak may only get one chance ever to coach a NFL team. I'm sure he wouldn't want to look back and see that his only QB's during this time was the incredible self sacking QB and Sage "I can't even beat out 2nd string Dolphin chump QBs" Rosenfels. Schaub would probably be a Raider if we didn't make the move....he was the most "ready" QB on the market with upside. Rosenfels = Gifford Neilson.

I dunno.....that's a tough one and it's easy to be confidant about one player having more potential or having more upside or downside in this league than another. Easy for me and easy for you. And as far Kubiaks ability to identify
big-time talent, let me remind we are still waiting to assess the wisdom of Kubiaks choice of the #1 last year. Actually many have already gone thumbs down on that choice.
And I'm glad that DC moved on, but I'm still not sure if the problem was more him or more the OLines he had to play behind while he was here, though I think I know your opinion on the subject. I do know one of my major concerns about Schaub (or any QB) succeeding in Houston is because of the reservations I still have about the level of talent & competance of our OLine.
If we could land a talented LT, the incremental improvement of our OLine collectively would be quite frankly staggering IMO. And to get a young guy to boot who'd be here 10 years would be huge.
Understand I'm playing devils advocate here while we mark time until TC, because I do like the decision by Kubiak (& Smith). But it is not without risk, quite a bit I think. And as I've just said, there were other scenarios, other options for us to use those 2 very valuable second round picks on.

 

[Texans Horror]

I think there are a lot of fans who don't necessarily doubt Matt so much as they don't trust the o-line.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

A few comments...

As for the 2007 draft class of QBs, I say meh. I'm not sure any of those guys are worth grooming. If you say Quinn, there was no guarantee that Quinn was going to be available at 8. (Besides Quinn makes me say meh).

I'd rather have Schaub + Rosenfels versus Rosenfels + noob QB from class of 2007.

I agree with that statement but to be more thorough it would go like this:

quinn, sage, and kalil/jarrett/houston, and our 2008 2nd round pick
-or-
okoye, sage, and kalil/jarrett/houston, and our 2008 2nd round pick
-or-
okoye, schaub, sage, no kalil/jarrett/houston, no 2008 2nd round pick.

If Schaub plays like an average starting NFL QB or better we got a great deal. If Schaub struggles and is replaced in after 2-3 season the deal doesnt look as good but in no scenario is it a disaster other than possibly having to show even more patience in the team's development.

What I have maintained since day one is that we need to be patient with Schaub as fans because he has yet to take a snap. I know we are all dying for the season to start but we don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves. Hopefully they will air some of the scrimmages once TC starts and we can get some early glimpses of MS to AJ deep. If that is the case we only have about 5 weeks to wait. One thing for sure is that its a new beginning for the whole organization. The albatross is gone and its now put up or shut up time for the rest of the Texans. Schaub will get a little leeway but its time for players like Dunta, Mario, TJ, and Brown/Earl to step up and improve if we are going to get anywhere.

TexansChick - great links to some great articles. thanks.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

The one position that can change your team the most is QB . The team usually goes as he goes ( I know Ray Lewis and others ) .

If your QB gets to practice at 5:30 am , even beating the coach ... the team will work harder longer . Lombardi said .... the harder a man works , the harder it is for him to quit .

Schaub has already tried to cover for his guys . After all the Carolina Carr talk about how great it is to be with a real team ... Schaub was asked what he thought was the strength of the offense was ... he said the OL ... he's not dumb .

well Carr had no trouble cashing the checks and resigning with us. I guess the team wasn't 'real' but the checks sure as hell were. screw that loser, i hope he finds a way on the field against us this year.

Nothing would make me happier than seeing that little girl laid out on the field from a legal but mean hit. now that would be 'fun'. he deserves it and I none of the Texans would think twice about laying the wood to that ungrateful petty little jerk. I hope he has lots of 'fun' in Carolina. I'm not a Panthers fan, so I hope he somehow becomes the starting QB.

Then I can watch him get his butt kicked up and down the NFC, get benched for a 3rd string QB, and the experts and Carr disciples will be proven wrong once and for all.

 

[nunusguy]

well Carr had no trouble cashing the checks and resigning with us. I guess the team wasn't 'real' but the checks sure as hell were. screw that loser, i hope he finds a way on the field against us this year.

Just for the record, I think the option to retain Carr was strictly one of a unilateral nature. Ours. He had no say in the matter.
But you're right, it is a new start for the whole organization and we can all rejoice in the knowlege of that fact.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

Just for the record, I think the option to retain Carr was strictly one of a unilateral nature. Ours. He had no say in the matter.
But you're right, it is a new start for the whole organization and we can all rejoice in the knowlege of that fact.

yeah your right but he could have said he wanted to go elsewhere, but I doubt teams would have been foaming at the mouth after a 2-14 season. so he shut his mouth and cashed the check.

thanks for the correction though.

 

[Texans_Chick]

I agree with that statement but to be more thorough it would go like this:

quinn, sage, and kalil/jarrett/houston, and our 2008 2nd round pick
-or-
okoye, sage, and kalil/jarrett/houston, and our 2008 2nd round pick
-or-
okoye, schaub, sage, no kalil/jarrett/houston, no 2008 2nd round pick.

If Schaub plays like an average starting NFL QB or better we got a great deal. If Schaub struggles and is replaced in after 2-3 season the deal doesnt look as good but in no scenario is it a disaster other than possibly having to show even more patience in the team's development.

What I have maintained since day one is that we need to be patient with Schaub as fans because he has yet to take a snap. I know we are all dying for the season to start but we don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves. Hopefully they will air some of the scrimmages once TC starts and we can get some early glimpses of MS to AJ deep. If that is the case we only have about 5 weeks to wait. One thing for sure is that its a new beginning for the whole organization. The albatross is gone and its now put up or shut up time for the rest of the Texans. Schaub will get a little leeway but its time for players like Dunta, Mario, TJ, and Brown/Earl to step up and improve if we are going to get anywhere.

TexansChick - great links to some great articles. thanks.

Problem is that you don't know who is going to be available going into the draft. You don't know Quinn is going to be at 8 for sure. And as much as I really do like Rosenfels, I wouldn't want to put all my eggs in his basket. (and the coaches who have been working with him over the course of the season didn't want to either).

So option one above, you can't count on because you don't know you can get Quinn at 8.

And option two above means you are putting all your eggs in the Rosenfels basket. Being thin at QB last year meant that the Texans basically had to go into operation shut down the QB after the Raiders game.

So, the Texans went option 3. Given the QBs available, I'm okay with that.

JMO. Thanks for the kind words.

 

[The1ApplePie]

A Quinn/Jarrett combo would have been a great building block for the future.

I hope we finally go offense next year in the draft. Slaton/McFadden would be nice.

When we pulled the Schaub deal, my friend called me and said "We traded half our draft for a slower version of David Carr?" Hope he isn't right.

I prefer Quinn over Schaub myself. I think Quinn is faster and has the same arm, may even be smarter.

 

[swtbound07]

A Quinn/Jarrett combo would have been a great building block for the future.

I hope we finally go offense next year in the draft. Slaton/McFadden would be nice.

When we pulled the Schaub deal, my friend called me and said "We traded half our draft for a slower version of David Carr?" Hope he isn't right.

I prefer Quinn over Schaub myself. I think Quinn is faster and has the same arm, may even be smarter.

mcfadden would be a beast. I disagree about quinn, i think he is soft. Carr...well, we won't do that. Schaub looks like the real deal. I liked Jarrett, would have liked to pair him with Schaub, but at the end of the day, you got to like where we are sitting today

 

[The1ApplePie]

I wanted Scahub, and I am glad we got him. I just think we gave up too much to get him, and paid him too much money. If people like Moss and Green changed teams for low picks, it seems stupid to give up all that for an unproven guy.

 

[Il_Bruno]

I wanted Scahub, and I am glad we got him. I just think we gave up too much to get him, and paid him too much money. If people like Moss and Green changed teams for low picks, it seems stupid to give up all that for an unproven guy.

randy moss and the raiders just wasnt going to work out, so the raiders actually did well in getting something for moss. Also, Schuab has more long-term potential because he's a lot younger and he's a QB, a position thats normally much kinder on the body and is viable well into the thirties.

i completely agree about giving schuab too much money, i would want him to prove it on the field before giving him all that money. kind of like the insane rookie contracts...but thats another topic...

it was a steep price at the time but im sure the falcons would want A LOT more now. Good decisive swift move by kubes and smith imo. I just hate to give up that second 2 though, tons of good players can be had in the second round.

 

[eric138]

randy moss and the raiders just wasnt going to work out, so the raiders actually did well in getting something for moss. Also, Schuab has more long-term potential because he's a lot younger and he's a QB, a position thats normally much kinder on the body and is viable well into the thirties.

i completely agree about giving schuab too much money, i would want him to prove it on the field before giving him all that money. kind of like the insane rookie contracts...but thats another topic...

it was a steep price at the time but im sure the falcons would want A LOT more now. Good decisive swift move by kubes and smith imo. I just hate to give up that second 2 though, tons of good players can be had in the second round.

How is a little over 7 million too much money?

 

[Il_Bruno]

im not all too famliar with salary cap figures and such, but a 48 million dollar contract for a backup (a very good one) who hasnt proven it as a starter seems a little steep for me. Maybe its not though, maybe 7 mil isnt much for the starting NFL QB these days, like i said im not an expert on that.

 

[Specnatz]

im not all too famliar with salary cap figures and such, but a 48 million dollar contract for a backup (a very good one) who hasnt proven it as a starter seems a little steep for me. Maybe its not though, maybe 7 mil isnt much for the starting NFL QB these days, like i said im not an expert on that.

it is $48 mill over the life of the contract but that is after the first tow years which are very low in dollar figures so the Texans could cut ties if he does not workout without the cost being very much.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

im not all too famliar with salary cap figures and such, but a 48 million dollar contract for a backup (a very good one) who hasnt proven it as a starter seems a little steep for me. Maybe its not though, maybe 7 mil isnt much for the starting NFL QB these days, like i said im not an expert on that.

He's less than 2.2 million this year. I'm not sure offhand how much guaranteed money he has but it's a back loaded contract. I think we can cut him after a couple of years without any dead money or we can renegotiate if he works out.

EDIT: He is 6.1 million next year.

 

[rickyb]

Nothing would make me happier than seeing that little girl laid out on the field from a legal but mean hit.

Nothing would make me happier than a picture on the front page of the Chronicle Monday morning after the Panther-Texan game:
< picture of Amobi and Mario laying on top of Carr, grimacing from behind a sod-soaked facemask >
Texans Sack Panthers

Never mind that Carr does not have the starting job yet.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

Nothing would make me happier than a picture on the front page of the Chronicle Monday morning after the Panther-Texan game:
< picture of Amobi and Mario laying on top of Carr, grimacing from behind a sod-soaked facemask >
Texans Sack Panthers

Never mind that Carr does not have the starting job yet.

yeah, its a longshot he gets that job unless DelHomme is seriously injured, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone including DC himself. His best bet is to lay low, cash fat checks, and relearn his position from the ground up.....maybe he can take up baseball, I don't know. if nothing else, he does have a strong arm.

My problem is when he says bad things about an organization that was very fair to him and a fanbase that was very patient with him. The season ticket holders didn't revolt or turn on Carr, ever. Yeah, there were some boos but the fans have always cheered when there has been anything to cheer for. My point is that five years is unprecedented patience. It just gets my goat when he implies the Texans were not a 'real' team and that our fans were fickle or just not into it.

He could have said 'championship contender' or 'playoff team' but he said 'to finally be on a real team' which in as many words implied the Texans are a joke.

sorry icak and friends, i have had a hand in mutating a Schaub thread into a Carr thread...once again. back on topic. Schaub is great. Discuss.

 

[the wonger need food]

When we pulled the Schaub deal, my friend called me and said "We traded half our draft for a slower version of David Carr?" Hope he isn't right.

I prefer Quinn over Schaub myself. I think Quinn is faster and has the same arm, may even be smarter.

Your friend doesn't have much NFL football knowledge. Schaub can read defenses, has pocket presence, can throw down the middle of the field, make quick decisions and put touch on the ball while getting it over the defensive lineman. He is the polar opposite of Carr.

And Quinn can't even beat out Derek Anderson. Taking that guy would have been a huge mistake.

 

[Runner]

Nothing would make me happier than a picture on the front page of the Chronicle Monday morning after the Panther-Texan game:
< picture of Amobi and Mario laying on top of Carr, grimacing from behind a sod-soaked facemask >
Texans Sack Panthers

Nothing would have made the board happier than Young in the same situation last year.

 

[Texans_Chick]

Your friend doesn't have much NFL football knowledge. Schaub can read defenses, has pocket presence, can throw down the middle of the field, make quick decisions and put touch on the ball while getting it over the defensive lineman. He is the polar opposite of Carr.

We hope. Not enough of a sample size in live fire to know for sure about Schaub, but enough to be encouraged.

Schaub hasn't had many NFL games, and hasn't had many games where defenses prepared specifically for him.

Personally, I think it would be beyond wonderful if Schaub turns out as you describe him, but at this point I'd settle for just some normal fairly consistent QB play.

 

[the wonger need food]

We hope. Not enough of a sample size in live fire to know for sure about Schaub, but enough to be encouraged.

Schaub hasn't had many NFL games, and hasn't had many games where defenses prepared specifically for him.

Personally, I think it would be beyond wonderful if Schaub turns out as you describe him, but at this point I'd settle for just some normal fairly consistent QB play.

Well, at least we know he won't sidearm every third pass into a defensive lineman's facemask.... right???

One of the things that always peeved me about Carr was his lack of touch. I remember him throwing those dumpoffs to DD in the middle of the field and every one would be 100 MPH. It seemed like (when he did get the ball past the defensive lineman) there wasn't much finese and every ball was thrown as hard as possible.

But I see where you're coming from... it's way too early to tell how good Schaub is going to be. But looking at our former QB's flaws it just doesn't seem possible that he could have anywhere near the same amount of problems.

 

[rickyb]

Nothing would have made the board happier than Young in the same situation last year.

LOL.

 

[the wonger need food]

I guess you're not going to let go of this " great leader " thing go.

And why should he? We haven't had a leader at the QB position in this town since Pastorini played here.

 

[maddogmrb]

And why should he? We haven't had a leader at the QB position in this town since Pastorini played here.

I guess Warren Moon was camel fodder......

 

[maddogmrb]

We hope. Not enough of a sample size in live fire to know for sure about Schaub, but enough to be encouraged.

Schaub hasn't had many NFL games, and hasn't had many games where defenses prepared specifically for him.

Personally, I think it would be beyond wonderful if Schaub turns out as you describe him, but at this point I'd settle for just some normal fairly consistent QB play.

Agreed. Schaub has had a good OFF-season & shown OFF the field leadership and this is encouraging. But, when I'm evaluating the team I ask myself how many of our players would be starting on other teams. If most of our players would NOT be starting for at least 50% of the other teams, then we will be a sub-500 team. Apply this to Matt Schaub ......... how many other NFL teams would trade starters with us? I would venture to say less than 50% which, at this point, puts our starting QB in the lower half of the league's QB's. He has alot to prove and the talent appears to be there but, we've got to see it on the field before declaring him Brett Favre.

 

[real]

Agreed. Schaub has had a good OFF-season & shown OFF the field leadership and this is encouraging. But, when I'm evaluating the team I ask myself how many of our players would be starting on other teams. If most of our players would NOT be starting for at least 50&#37; of the other teams, then we will be a sub-500 team. Apply this to Matt Schaub ......... how many other NFL teams would trade starters with us? I would venture to say less than 50% which, at this point, puts our starting QB in the lower half of the league's QB's. He has alot to prove and the talent appears to be there but, we've got to see it on the field before declaring him Brett Favre.

Matt Schaub is an unknown....

Just like rookies coming in....

How many teams would have traded their starting QB for Jamarcus Russel ? Or Matt Leinart? How do you come up with your 50% ? What's going in to your equation?
Does the Titans getting rid of McNair and drafting Young essentially mount up to trading McNair for Young?

If Schaub were a highly touted rookie QB coming out this year and we drafted him, like say the Cardinals being excited about Leinart, should we not expect highly of our QB ? Especially one who has shown and made all the right moves ? I can pick out a million reasons to be excited about Schaub, and the only argument one can give to not be is simply a whisper in the wind...an unknown...Yeah he could be bad, but he also could be good or great....

A better question would be: How many teams in the leauge would have taken Matt Schaub as their starter OR their future this past off-season ?

In that answer you'll find more than your "50%" sir.

 

[Historyhorn]

Agreed. Schaub has had a good OFF-season & shown OFF the field leadership and this is encouraging. But, when I'm evaluating the team I ask myself how many of our players would be starting on other teams. If most of our players would NOT be starting for at least 50% of the other teams, then we will be a sub-500 team. Apply this to Matt Schaub ......... how many other NFL teams would trade starters with us? I would venture to say less than 50% which, at this point, puts our starting QB in the lower half of the league's QB's. He has alot to prove and the talent appears to be there but, we've got to see it on the field before declaring him Brett Favre.

OK, let's evaluate which teams would trade QB's and which wouldn't. Let's start in the AFC East. The Pats have Brady, The Jets have Penn, The Bills have Lohsman, & the Dolphins have Green. I'd say the Bills and the Dolphins would trade their QB situation with the Texans.

AFC South: Colts have Peyton, the Titans have Young, the Jags have Leftwich & Garrard. Of that group, only the Jags might trade. They are not sold on either of their guys, but both have more experience than Schaub. Schaub may be a better QB over the long haul than Young, but I don't think they'd trade right now. So the Jags are a team to add to the list.

AFC North: Bengals have Palmer, Steelers have Big Ben, Browns have Frye and Quinn, & the Ravens have McNair. No way the Steelers or Bengals trade. The Browns certainly would and you'd have to think the Ravens would considering the age and miles on McNair.

AFC West: Chargers have Rivers, Raiders have Russell, Broncos have Cutler, Chiefs have Huard. The Chargers & Broncos seem to be set. The Raiders would trade, because Schaub has had a chance to learn for a couple of years. The Chiefs most certainly would trade.

NFC East: Giants have Eli, Cowboys have Romo, Washington has Jason Campbell, the Eagles have McNabb. Washington would trade. The Cowboys and the Eagles wouldn't. Give New York a year and they might, but not right now.

NFC South: Panthers have Delhomme, Saints have Brees, Bucs have Simms/Garcia, Falcons have Vick. Panthers and Saints are set. Atlanta let Schaub go so they like Vick over Schaub (that might change after dog fighting investigation finishes). The Bucs would trade in a heartbeat.

NFC North: Bears have Grossman, Lions have Kitna, Vikings have Jackson, & the Packers have Favre. Favre is the best QB in that division, but he's on the downhill slide. If the Packers management could make a choice without fan pressure, they'd trade. With the other three, it would be a no-brainer....they'd trade QB's.

NFC West: Seahawks have Hasselbeck, Rams have Bulger, Cards have Leinart, & the Niners have Alex Smith. I really think none of those would trade QB's right now.

That puts my count at 13 teams that would trade their starter for Schaub straight up right now. That number might change after we see how he performs this year. It could go up or down, but still that's not too shabby. How many teams would have traded their starting QB for David Carr straight up? I would highly doubt it would be 13. David couldn't even come up with a team that wanted him to be their starter as an un-restricted Free Agent this off-season.

Go Texans

 

[michaelm]

OK, let's evaluate which teams would trade QB's and which wouldn't. Let's start in the AFC East. The Pats have Brady, The Jets have Penn, The Bills have Lohsman, & the Dolphins have Green. I'd say the Bills and the Dolphins would trade their QB situation with the Texans.

AFC South: Colts have Peyton, the Titans have Young, the Jags have Leftwich & Garrard. Of that group, only the Jags might trade. They are not sold on either of their guys, but both have more experience than Schaub. Schaub may be a better QB over the long haul than Young, but I don't think they'd trade right now. So the Jags are a team to add to the list.

AFC North: Bengals have Palmer, Steelers have Big Ben, Browns have Frye and Quinn, & the Ravens have McNair. No way the Steelers or Bengals trade. The Browns certainly would and you'd have to think the Ravens would considering the age and miles on McNair.

AFC West: Chargers have Rivers, Raiders have Russell, Broncos have Cutler, Chiefs have Huard. The Chargers & Broncos seem to be set. The Raiders would trade, because Schaub has had a chance to learn for a couple of years. The Chiefs most certainly would trade.

NFC East: Giants have Eli, Cowboys have Romo, Washington has Jason Campbell, the Eagles have McNabb. Washington would trade. The Cowboys and the Eagles wouldn't. Give New York a year and they might, but not right now.

NFC South: Panthers have Delhomme, Saints have Brees, Bucs have Simms/Garcia, Falcons have Vick. Panthers and Saints are set. Atlanta let Schaub go so they like Vick over Schaub (that might change after dog fighting investigation finishes). The Bucs would trade in a heartbeat.

NFC North: Bears have Grossman, Lions have Kitna, Vikings have Jackson, & the Packers have Favre. Favre is the best QB in that division, but he's on the downhill slide. If the Packers management could make a choice without fan pressure, they'd trade. With the other three, it would be a no-brainer....they'd trade QB's.

NFC West: Seahawks have Hasselbeck, Rams have Bulger, Cards have Leinart, & the Niners have Alex Smith. I really think none of those would trade QB's right now.

That puts my count at 13 teams that would trade their starter for Schaub straight up right now. That number might change after we see how he performs this year. It could go up or down, but still that's not too shabby. How many teams would have traded their starting QB for David Carr straight up? I would highly doubt it would be 13. David couldn't even come up with a team that wanted him to be their starter as an un-restricted Free Agent this off-season.

Go Texans

I think I agree with just about everything you said with one exception.
Before I say this, I acknowledge that I am probably in the minority on the following viewpoint:
I would take Schaub over Big Ben at this moment. Yeah, I know Ben won a Superbowl, but I have never considered him to be an upper echelon QB, or even a QB who was worth the hype he generated... just my opinion...

 

[Texan_Bill]

I think I agree with just about everything you said with one exception.
Before I say this, I acknowledge that I am probably in the minority on the following viewpoint:
I would take Schaub over Big Ben at this moment. Yeah, I know Ben won a Superbowl, but I have never considered him to be an upper echelon QB, or even a QB who was worth the hype he generated... just my opinion...

Not as much as you think. I think a lot of people recognize that Ben was put in an offense that was safe for him, and yet productive. But no one would mistake Ben for Joe Montana!!

 

[Double Barrel]

I guess you're not going to let go of this " great leader " thing go.

Dude, it was a joke!

= sarcasm

Perhaps you just fail to understand the term "inside joke". The leader thing has been a topic of silliness for awhile in a very slow off-season (see also "mentor"). Strange that everyone else gets the joke, but someone with your severe senility should obviously be forgiven.

Do you ever have anything of value to add to a discussion? Your bitterman attitude is weak (not to mention quite stale by this point).

If you gave a dollar to this site it would be the first positive contribution to a forum in your life.

But I suppose being a troll is a personality trait with some folks.

 

[the wonger need food]

I guess Warren Moon was camel fodder......

I don't believe that Moon was considered the leader of any Oiler teams. He had great stats but never led them to where they should have gone. All he had to do was throw for 1 TD pass in the second half against Buffalo and couldn't do it. If he would have I might have a different view of him.

He reminds me a lot of Carr in the way that he always felt sorry for himself for one reason or another. With the main difference obviously being that Moon had talent.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

I guess you're not going to let go of this " great leader " thing go. But this is too much of a reach. Audie Murphy at 5ft plus inches and a little over a hundred lbs, A world war hero who fought in combat, and got every medal known to man. Is what to Schaub, ? One carries a football and the other used a 50 cal. machine-gun. Where or how do you put the two together. Audie Murphy wasn't a great leader, a killing machine yes, Hero, none better. The Schaubie will be running for his life, not taking any. As for you being a contributor... you should be! giving a bunch of cash to keep posting " He's a great leader " over and over.

please leave and go to the Panthers board. all you are is a big Carr homer that still has yet to turn the page. You are a pathetic fan.

just because your hero turned out to be a zero, don't hate on Schaub. If you want to hate on Schaub go to another board, another team, and another state.

your so damn stubborn you cant even admit that you were wrong and that your boy sucks. go home.

 

[Texans Horror]

OK, let's evaluate which teams would trade QB's and which wouldn't. I'd say the Bills and the Dolphins would trade their QB situation with the Texans.

The Browns certainly would and you'd have to think the Ravens would considering the age and miles on McNair.

The Raiders would trade, because Schaub has had a chance to learn for a couple of years.

The Bucs would trade in a heartbeat.

Go Texans

A few questions on your synopsis:

Why is Cam giving up his Green that he fought for?

Why would the Browns take Schaub when they have invested a good draft pick in Quinn?

Why would the Ravens take Schaub over McNair, who did pretty well last year, and Troy Smith, who is being groomed as the McN"heir" apparent?

Why are the Raiders trading their number one pick for Schaub?

Why would the Bucs want (yet another) QB?

I am not sure if you are oversimplifying the QB into a "plug and play" position or if you are underappreciating some of these teams, but I disagree on some of these synopses.

 

[Specnatz]

OK, let's evaluate which teams would trade QB's and which wouldn't. Let's start in the AFC East. The Pats have Brady, The Jets have Penn, The Bills have Lohsman, & the Dolphins have Green. I'd say the Bills and the Dolphins would trade their QB situation with the Texans.

AFC South: Colts have Peyton, the Titans have Young, the Jags have Leftwich & Garrard. Of that group, only the Jags might trade. They are not sold on either of their guys, but both have more experience than Schaub. Schaub may be a better QB over the long haul than Young, but I don't think they'd trade right now. So the Jags are a team to add to the list.

AFC North: Bengals have Palmer, Steelers have Big Ben, Browns have Frye and Quinn, & the Ravens have McNair. No way the Steelers or Bengals trade. The Browns certainly would and you'd have to think the Ravens would considering the age and miles on McNair.

AFC West: Chargers have Rivers, Raiders have Russell, Broncos have Cutler, Chiefs have Huard. The Chargers & Broncos seem to be set. The Raiders would trade, because Schaub has had a chance to learn for a couple of years. The Chiefs most certainly would trade.

NFC East: Giants have Eli, Cowboys have Romo, Washington has Jason Campbell, the Eagles have McNabb. Washington would trade. The Cowboys and the Eagles wouldn't. Give New York a year and they might, but not right now.

NFC South: Panthers have Delhomme, Saints have Brees, Bucs have Simms/Garcia, Falcons have Vick. Panthers and Saints are set. Atlanta let Schaub go so they like Vick over Schaub (that might change after dog fighting investigation finishes). The Bucs would trade in a heartbeat.

NFC North: Bears have Grossman, Lions have Kitna, Vikings have Jackson, & the Packers have Favre. Favre is the best QB in that division, but he's on the downhill slide. If the Packers management could make a choice without fan pressure, they'd trade. With the other three, it would be a no-brainer....they'd trade QB's.

NFC West: Seahawks have Hasselbeck, Rams have Bulger, Cards have Leinart, & the Niners have Alex Smith. I really think none of those would trade QB's right now.

That puts my count at 13 teams that would trade their starter for Schaub straight up right now. That number might change after we see how he performs this year. It could go up or down, but still that's not too shabby. How many teams would have traded their starting QB for David Carr straight up? I would highly doubt it would be 13. David couldn't even come up with a team that wanted him to be their starter as an un-restricted Free Agent this off-season.

Go Texans

The only problem I have is that the teams in bold did not have some of those QBs before we traded for Schaub. The Texans traded with Atlanta before the draft.

 

[Texans Horror]

Matt Schaub is an unknown....

I can pick out a million reasons to be excited about Schaub, and the only argument one can give to not be is simply a whisper in the wind...an unknown...Yeah he could be bad, but he also could be good or great....

I think there are some very solid reasons to be disconcerted about Matt joining the Texans, some of which have nothing to do with him. His record while playing for Atlanta, for one. His QB rating (average was 69.2), number of passes over 40 (just 4 in four years), number of interceptions (6). I don't think the only argument for not taking Matt is "he is an unknown."

Got my stats here:
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493050