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Could Troy Smith be better then VY?

Errant Hothy

Errant Hothy

Hypermediocrity
The intention of this is to not start a flame war or bash-fest, but to discuss the best two mobile Qbs to play college football since Vick.

Personnaly I've been blown away by Smith's passing. He's accurate as all get out, throws a good deep ball and is money on the timing routes. His biggest challenge will be against Michigain, where if he carries Ohio State to a victory, much like VY carried UT several times, I think he is a lock for the Heisman. This is also the area where VY may be better, the intangables. I doubt Smith has had much effect on Trussle (sp?) but we all know that VY changed Mack Brown. As for running ability, Smith hasn't had to do much this year but we all know that he can. Is he the same kinda threat as VY? I don't think so, Vince was a true homerun hitter with his feet at the QB spot; and I just don't think Smith has the ability to go 60+ for a score.

And I'd take both before Vick.
 
Smith is a more technically proficient passer, no doubt. That doesn't necessarily make him a more effective passer or QB... the other half of the game is finding receivers and making the right decisions. He's certainly not as big as Vince, and I haven't watched enough tape to make any conclusions, but I'd say from a strict passing standpoint, he's his equal if not better. All I ever see is Troy Smith throwing beautiful deep bombs... he actually reminds me of McNabb, who throws the prettiest ball in the game, IMO.

What VY had going for him was the ability to make big throws in the red-zone and to move the chains. I think VY's size is a huge asset, we've already seen him be very tough to take down at this level. Smith is a stud... no doubt. He's only 6'1" and he's not the runner that VY is... we'll find out about the intangibles as this season progresses. I love the dude's game... wouldn't mind us taking him if Carr can't produce some wins (not trying to stir anything up here).

In short, I think that Troy Smith could be better than VY... he is a more gifted passer... he's not as big or as lethal on the ground and he hasn't been mega-clutch like VY. I think he can be the next Donovan McNabb though, and at last check, McNabb was the best QB not named Peyton.
 
VY is way more elusive. His size makes his speed decieving and it's hard to tackle him. I have said that Troy Smith is the better QB, but VY is the guy that will win any game.
 
Dr. Toro said:
Smith is a more technically proficient passer, no doubt.
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No, he isn't. Smith didn't even win the starting job until halfway through his junior year. I don't know how you can call him "more proficient" when VY has way more experience playing QB at the college level. That's what proficiency means.

Plus, maybe people have short term memory loss, but I have to remind people that Vince Young led all QBs in passing efficiency last year, moreso than Matt Leinart or any of the other typical pocket passers. He's not Michael Vick, a guy who can run but is a so-so passer. Vince learned how to pass very well in college.
 
Snapple said:
No, he isn't. Smith didn't even win the starting job until halfway through his junior year. I don't know how you can call him "more proficient" when VY has way more experience playing QB at the college level. That's what proficiency means.

Plus, maybe people have short term memory loss, but I have to remind people that Vince Young led all QBs in passing efficiency last year, moreso than Matt Leinart or any of the other typical pocket passers. He's not Michael Vick, a guy who can run but is a so-so passer. Vince learned how to pass very well in college.
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Technically proficient means "has better mechanics"/"throws a better ball". I might be the biggest VY fan on the board, but there's little debate about that, in my opinion. If you would read the rest of my post, I say that doesn't make him a better passer or QB... but with respect to throwing the ball only, there's little question he's more talented.
 
troy smith is definitely more proficient. 68% of his passes completed, and 82% of those are to his receivers. unlike young, who completed a TON of passes to his backs and TE's, which is a sign of a QB who isn't nearly as mature as you want him to be.
 
Part of the passes to TE's/RB's is due to the LBs obsessively spying VY... no reason to take chances down field when you have a guaranteed 10 yds.
 
Vince Young - 212/325 (65.2%), 3036 yards, 26 TDs, 10 INTs
Troy Smith - 149/237 (62.9%), 2282 yards, 16 TDs, 4 INTs

Those are their stats from last year...both QBs' Jr. seasons. If you're going to compare Smith this year to Young last year, shouldn't you take into account that Young would probably have improved on last year as well?

And given the differences in talent on both offenses, I would expect Smith to take advantage of his WRs. One (Santonio Holmes) was a 1st round draft pick. The other (Tedd Ginn) will be as well. Vince's WRs were freshmen and sophomores. So he took advantage of his best target..TE David Thomas. Now you can predict that Limas Sweed may end up being a 1st round pick but would you put '05 Limas Sweed on the same level with '05 Holmes?
 
Huge said:
Vince Young - 212/325 (65.2%), 3036 yards, 26 TDs, 10 INTs
Troy Smith - 149/237 (62.9%), 2282 yards, 16 TDs, 4 INTs

Those are their stats from last year...both QBs' Jr. seasons. If you're going to compare Smith this year to Young last year, shouldn't you take into account that Young would probably have improved on last year as well?

And given the differences in talent on both offenses, I would expect Smith to take advantage of his WRs. One (Santonio Holmes) was a 1st round draft pick. The other (Tedd Ginn) will be as well. Vince's WRs were freshmen and sophomores. So he took advantage of his best target..TE David Thomas. Now you can predict that Limas Sweed may end up being a 1st round pick but would you put '05 Limas Sweed on the same level with '05 Holmes?
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Wow...rep coming your way....
 
i like that troy smith is a passer first and rarely runs at all these days. much more disciplined than young.

what the hell was i talking about, he's DEFINITELY a better prospect than young.
 
kastofsna said:
i like that troy smith is a passer first and rarely runs at all these days. much more disciplined than young.

what the hell was i talking about, he's DEFINITELY a better prospect than young.
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VY isn't running much this year...
 
Hoth-Boy said:
The intention of this is to not start a flame war or bash-fest, but to discuss the best two mobile Qbs to play college football since Vick.
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Maybe we should start adding Pat White from West Virginia to this list. He maybe closer to Vick as a game changing (as a runner and a passer) than either Young or Smith.
 
V Man said:
Maybe we should start adding Pat White from West Virginia to this list. He maybe closer to Vick as a game changing (as a runner and a passer) than either Young or Smith.
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Pat White can Pass ??? Really ???
 
If Smith throws for 3000 and rushes for 1000 in the same season then he is as good as Vince

p.s.- nobody but Vince has ever done that so I dont think its gonna happen
 
bah007 said:
If Smith throws for 3000 and rushes for 1000 in the same season then he is as good as Vince

p.s.- nobody but Vince has ever done that so I dont think its gonna happen
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he's not a running QB, so he won't go for 1000 yards on the ground.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Pat White can Pass ??? Really ???
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kastofsna said:
pat white is barely a passer at all.
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Half way through his Soph. season 64 of 93 for 822 (68.8 %).

Unfortunately we will truely never really know since his conference is so weak, and since his team can run for 300+ yards game you don't throw much.

Anyway we are comparing them to Vick remember, and he isn't exactly known for throwing the ball either.
 
bah007 said:
your right. good point. then all he needs to do is throw for 4000 yds and lead his team to the championship
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4000 yards isn't going to happen. sorry. you don't see 4000 yard passers in college unless they're at hawaii or texas tech or similar.
 
kastofsna said:
troy smith is definitely more proficient. 68% of his passes completed, and 82% of those are to his receivers. unlike young, who completed a TON of passes to his backs and TE's, which is a sign of a QB who isn't nearly as mature as you want him to be.
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Drew Brees went to the Pro Bowl throwing the ball to Ladainian Tomlinson and Antonio Gates. Was he not mature enough as a QB? Or was he just taking advantage of his better weapons (that's a sign of a very mature QB)?
kastofsna said:
i like that troy smith is a passer first and rarely runs at all these days. much more disciplined than young.

what the hell was i talking about, he's DEFINITELY a better prospect than young.
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There's a difference between running because you know you can instead of running because you know you can't pass.

Vince knew he could run.
 
Huge said:
Drew Brees went to the Pro Bowl throwing the ball to Ladainian Tomlinson and Antonio Gates. Was he not mature enough as a QB? Or was he just taking advantage of his better weapons (that's a sign of a very mature QB)?
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i'm not saying it's the end-all evidence that smith is a more mature passer than young, it's just one of several things.
There's a difference between running because you know you can instead of running because you know you can't pass.

Vince knew he could run.
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if you say so.
 
V Man said:
Maybe we should start adding Pat White from West Virginia to this list. He maybe closer to Vick as a game changing (as a runner and a passer) than either Young or Smith.
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Pat White isn't a threat at all as a passer. I'm shocked teams haven't exposed him yet. The one time a team forced him to throw, he threw 3 picks.

I'd love to see that WV team get plowed by the Horns, Aggies, Nebraska, Missou.....heh...this is the big east we are talking about. There are several teams in the Big 12, that get no love, that I think can not only run with that team, but out physical them.
 
I think the bigger difference is that Vince would run to make a play with his legs, while Troy usually runs to make a play with his arm.

Watching Troy Smith's TD passes this weekend iw waht prompted this thread, and quite frankly Troy has the better arm.
 
To Answer The Question... Yes

Vince Young was pampered by his offensive system in college where Troy Smith is not being pampered he is in a Systemed that is a lot more NFL ready than the one that Young ran at Texas.

Young is a athlete stuck in a QB position. Where Smith is a Quaterback with althetisim. I would take Smith anyday over Young simply because he doesn't put himself in a position to where he is going to mess around get himself hurt with all the scrambling.

Smith looks to pass first and then when the play breaks down he breaks containment and still looks to pass but when worst come sto worst you know he can break a 12 yard run if need be.

Smith in my opinion is a guy he believes in his system and excutes it to the fullest where Young is a guy where he's thinking.. "Screw This, I'm Going To Run!" Where Smith is like "Reciever 1 - Covered, Receiver 2 - Covered, TE - Covered, Okay 3 seconds is up time to get out of the pocket!"
 
Vince Young has something that Troy Smith does not. That is the fire burning in VY that does not allow him to quit, what got UT the Rose Bowl.
 
Okay it seems as if you mis-read what I was writing.. as in Ohio State's offense is MORE NFL ready than Texas's zone-read-option was...
 
Glacier said:
Pat White isn't a threat at all as a passer. I'm shocked teams haven't exposed him yet. The one time a team forced him to throw, he threw 3 picks.

I'd love to see that WV team get plowed by the Horns, Aggies, Nebraska, Missou.....heh...this is the big east we are talking about. There are several teams in the Big 12, that get no love, that I think can not only run with that team, but out physical them.
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like Kansas?
 
Snapple said:
Plus, maybe people have short term memory loss, but I have to remind people that Vince Young led all QBs in passing efficiency last year, moreso than Matt Leinart or any of the other typical pocket passers. He's not Michael Vick, a guy who can run but is a so-so passer. Vince learned how to pass very well in college.
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This is where I remind those with long-term memory loss that in 1999, Michael Vick led the NCAA in passing efficiency...as a freshman. Big whoops!
 
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