TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Well, has it dawned on you yet that nobody else feels the need to discuss it?
Yes, continue to look for ways to make me look bad. It will make your day THAT much better.
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Carr's leadership abilities
- Thread starter TexansSeminole
- Start date
Yes, continue to look for ways to make me look bad. It will make your day THAT much better.
Wolf
100% Texan
an interception is still an interception buddy.
no.. first interception was tipped
second one .all Carr..
you are probably the same person that blames Carr for not challenging a defense (given he has a 6-3 212 lb WR) and when he does and the WR doesn't make the play it is Carr's fault..(yes I can spin things too).
Wolf
100% Texan
.. Bagwell was on the DL for most of the season.. how did he LEAD us?noxiousdog
Rookie
So you're saying that if you had a bad game, it was the QB's fault for not leading you properly?
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Yes thank you, this is what I am trying to get to....Not his INTs...Not the running game...Not the blocking.
I guess an apology is in order for being that harsh. It's just that I've had my fill of people still bashing on Carr when it's obvious that his play is about the only thing on this offense that's working. You're timing was terrible. Maybe creating this thread on a Wednesday or Thursday would have been more receptive, but not when everyone is still steaming on Sunday afternoon.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Yeah up until last year, he hadn't lead anyone anywhere. Championships? NL central championships mean nothing if you can't get it done in October.
Wolf
100% Texan
it is texans.. Oilers did make it to the superbowl (titans are the Oilers)
Bagwell didn't do squat...Astros did it on the field.. yes I like bagwell and am sorry he was hurt..but he didn't help that team
if motivation is what the texans need.. heck lets get Tony Robbins to speak before the game and at halftime..
Texans still need talent to fit the system
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Yea, I can see that people are too upset about other areas to even consider participating in this conversation. I am not a Carr basher. I beleive Carr can be successful statistically. But I am starting to question his ability to win games, and/or lead his team to wins.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Huh? Are you serious? Did you ever play sports? Seriously I am wondering if you are being sarcastic here.
i watched the same game you did.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I guess Carr wasn't a leader in 2002 when he lead us to our 1st ever win as rookie QB huh? As with every other team the QB gets too much of the Glory when a team wins & too much of the blame when they lose. Since we've done ALOT of losing in our existence, It's only natural to blame him for the sorry performances this team has turned in.
TPIMP
Waterboy
Yes I played and one thing everyone who has played would know is the people sitting in the stands and in this case watching on TV have no idea who the leaders on the field are.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I do know that the QB is supposed to be a leader. I dont see how leadership could be overrated. These guys aren't machines, there is more than the physical parts of the game in football.
Sure that game was good but one game doesn't mean he can do it week in and week out. Consistency is a problem.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
I gotta agree. Quoted for truth. We didn't lose because of Carr's leadership or Carr's play. We lost as a team and although probably Carr's worst 2006 game to date, he wasn't a liability and in fact, moved the ball pretty well in the first half without the benefit of any running game whatsoever. Carr is closer to a solution than a problem for the Texans. They have major deficiencies at CB. They have major deficiencies at RB. They need a playmaker on defense. Those are the problems...not Carr.
Oh, and I thought the offensive line did a relatively good job pass protecting vs. Dallas for most of the day. He had a lot of time in the pocket in the first half although they were throwing mostly short West Coast offense type routes.
I was and still am a critic of Carr, but his play this year has not been a problem for the most part. I really think Bush could have helped Carr this year, but that is spilled milk....let's just hope that we can get a win or two here soon or it's time to start talking draft position
doug from the woodlands
You see, that's where you're going to have to help me out here. Are you saying that if Carr were "the leader", or had the "ability to win" so to speak, that they could win anyway . . despite no running game, despite all the other glaring weaknesses on this team?
Why should I not question your ability to be realistic enough? . . or to see that Carr can't do it all by himself?
TPIMP
Waterboy
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
It's true, maybe not to the extreme he's speaking of, but its true. In the last 15-20 years you've seen QB's win & get to the superbowl just "managing" games. When people think of Trent Dilfer, do you think they are going to remember him as a great leader? How about Stan Humphries of the Chargers or jake delhomme? All those guys pretty much fell into oblivion after the superbowl.
THIS IS A TEAM GAME PEOPLE & IMO DC is no different than a Steve Young, John Elway or someone like Brett Favre as far as his ability to lead. All of those guys weren't/aren't fiery on the sideline or in the huddle. The only difference is that this team just doesn't have enough of this thing we call talent to be successful on a week to week basis.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Well...despite those glaring weaknesses we were winning the game for awhile...as a team. After he threw a few INTs the team kinda lost it. As if he had thrown the game away for them. Not saying we would have won this game if he hadn't thrown INTs. But the QB is one of those guys you have got to count on, and it doesn't look like this team puts much faith in him.
I think alot of his problem leading this team is in his history with it. He may very well be a successful QB with a different team, and a new group of guys, but as for this team...I just dont see the faith.
Why even consider giving up draft picks this early??
I thought all you guys thought we were only going to win 4 or 5 games anyway?? You want to give up a first day pick to win 4 or 5 games that we'll probably get anyway??
#4 against the run on yards per carry, that's the team that stuffed our running game today.
#1 against the run on yards per carry, that's the team we beat two weeks ago.
Had our defense played today, Three weeks ago against washington, we would've won that game.
If our QB didn't spot the Colts 10 points, in the first Qtr, we'd could have seen our running game then.
Hold on to your picks, we'll still win the 4 or 5 games you thought we would..
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Why are you talking about Kurt Warner? I dont understand what you are asking me to say here.
Wolf
100% Texan
1st int.. Dallas Lb made the play that is what players do. sadly we are a step or two off of getting a game changing play
2nd int.. Carr had horrible throw...just horrible
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Consider the situation of that game. A rookie QB making his 1st start in an NFL game with an expansion franchise? Are you kidding? If he had any leadership abilities, they were shown that night. He has them, he just needs help.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Dude, Jake Delhomme is a great leader...I thought that much was obvious.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Yea I love that defense.
Nighthawk
Rookie
This is NOT a stupid thread.
Carr is NOT a leader, never will be.
Sure, everybody screwed up today.
That doesn't make Carr a leader.
Makes him part of the problem.
Always has been.
Why can't they see?
Sure, throw the stats around.
Only one stat counts.
Carr needs replacing.
We need POWER at the QB slot.
Someone who the team BELIEVES will get it done.
Leadership.
We don't have it now.
Carr is NOT a leader, never will be.
Sure, everybody screwed up today.
That doesn't make Carr a leader.
Makes him part of the problem.
Always has been.
Why can't they see?
Sure, throw the stats around.
Only one stat counts.
Carr needs replacing.
We need POWER at the QB slot.
Someone who the team BELIEVES will get it done.
Leadership.
We don't have it now.
I repeat . .
Why should I not question your ability to be realistic enough? . . or to see that Carr can't do it all by himself?
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Maybe when we get alot of new guys around him he will start to build a trust between him and his teamates, but as of now i've got to think that the team looks at him in the huddle and hope he doesn't mess up.
Today I saw a undrafted(I think) QB lead his team down the field in the 4th quarter and take a win away from a playoff caliber team. That has got to inspire something in the players. Next game they are going to look at their QB and believe that they can score on every posession. Everybody will play with more heart in the Bucs next game. That is what a leader does. He inspires players to play to the top of their ability. They make their teamates believe that they can beat the guy in front of them, and if they just do their job, the team will get it done.
We don't have that with our QB.
Today I saw a undrafted(I think) QB lead his team down the field in the 4th quarter and take a win away from a playoff caliber team. That has got to inspire something in the players. Next game they are going to look at their QB and believe that they can score on every posession. Everybody will play with more heart in the Bucs next game. That is what a leader does. He inspires players to play to the top of their ability. They make their teamates believe that they can beat the guy in front of them, and if they just do their job, the team will get it done.
We don't have that with our QB.
TPIMP
Waterboy
Sorry I was trying to follow your reasoning but it's difficult. I thought you were making the case that in order for the Texans to win they needed a leader at QB. So I reasoned that if you believed that it must apply to all teams. Along those lines the Rams won a superbowl and Kurt Warner was the QB. So he must have been a great leader to achieve that...right??
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
Carr hasn't been the problem this year. All QBs turn the ball over. Good teams step up and pick their teammates up when they make a mistake. We arent one of those teams yet and until we become one of those teams, it wouldnt matter if we had Montana at QB. We need to start getting consistent play from all 3 phases of our team.
Hopefully Wong can help our defense if/when he comes back.
doug
Hopefully Wong can help our defense if/when he comes back.
doug
whotex8
Noob
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Do you remember the game where we won with 46 offensive yards. Yes we had a bad day on the ground on as a team period, but points wise we were winning, so the team had to be feeling good about the score. Obviously Carr can't do it all himself, but you have to admit, after those 2 back to back INTs, the team lost all hope.
P.S. Yes, we need a new RB. Yes, we need some new OL. Yes, we need alot of new defensive players. Yes, Carr cannot win on his own. Yes, Carr is not the only problem, nor the main problem, or even the second most pressing problem. Is this what you want me to say? I beleive all these things, but it doesn't change that I think we need a new guy at QB. To spark this team.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I never said we needed a leader at QB to win but it certainly helps. And it certainly works against us when our QB isn't a very good leader. I didn't watch enough of the Rams that year to say that Kurt was a great leader, but to get his team to a Superbowl I would say he did a pretty damn good job at leading his team that year.
Wolf
100% Texan
so what made Kurt change from being a leader to going to the Cards and then to the bench?
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Age, lol. No but seriously, age, Matt Leinart, situation, a bunch of different things. He lost alot of physical skills, and started to throw the ball up for grabs too much as he got older, much like Favre nowadays. You can't do it forever...it has got to stop sometime.
Warner is the ultimate system quarterback. He was perfect for that offense and that offense was perfect for him. I don't think anyone ever considered him a leader, maybe a "ringleader" for an unprecedented offensive circus. Pace, Holt, Faulk, Bruce, Vermeil/Martz... end of story. Leaders aren't made when you're throwing for 400 yards a game and everybody is scoring touchdowns... leaders are made in tough and tight situations. Warner tended to fold in adverse times... here comes another sack and fumble.... cue the calliope music. He was never more than a statue, and that weakness became pretty apparent pretty quickly.
No . . . I don't admit that . . at all. Where did you get the idea that the team "lost all hope"? They intercepted, and they took it down and scored. Then Carr, having no running game to support him, is forced to throw the ball.
That team had a decent running game to back him up, didn't they?
I know you're not going to want to hear this, but here it comes.
Leadership . . in the NFL . . is overrated. A good sound football team wins games in this league. Leadership is for high school.
Well, if you can get a star in the making for maybe a #2 and #3 or #4 here are the arguments for it:
1)Salvage a bit of the season.
2)Show dedication to fans.
3)Be able to adequately assess other areas... we'll never get a great read on Carr's true abilities or the line with a sub-standard backfield.
4)Protect Carr... respecting the run should help out in the sack area.
5)Get some momentum going into the next season/teach some guys how to win.
6)Have a known quantity going into next season.
Here are the arguments against it:
1)You may be able to get the same quality runner with those picks.
2)Ron Dayne/Samkon Gado may be the solution.
3)You may be able to get the same quality runner in free agency.
If San Diego answers the phone and takes Dayne/ a second and 4th rounder for Turner... you had me at hello. There aren't any other guys I'd pony up for though.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Did you see the way the team played after? We fumbled a kickoff and then our defense was allowing Dallas to pick us apart, much different than the way they were playing earlier in the game. What are you saying here? That the fact that we have no running game means we have no chance to win the game, so Carr is forced to throw a horrible pass and get intercepted? We were holding on before that, despite the bad play of our secondary and our running game. After those interceptions, I would bet that 80% of the team was pretty sure we were going to lose after that. Therefore, not playing to win.
Yes a good sound team does win games, in highschool and in the NFL. And in the NCAA, and in the MLB, and in MLS...and in the Euro league of soccer...and in Little League Baseball...and in bowling.
All of the sudden these NFL players are supposed to be machines. Run their route with the same effort everytime. Are you honestly saying that a reciever is going to run his route with the same confidence if he had David Carr has a QB rather than Peyton Manning. No, he will not. To act like leadership plays no or even just a small role in the NFL is just rediculous. Yes, leadership effects how players play the game. No matter what game it is.
Just because you can't see the leadership like you can see the statistics...doesn't mean that the statistics mean more than the leadership.
You say you're not a 'Carr hater', but your actions speak for themselves. You just implied that if Carr were a "leader", he wouldn't have thrown that 'horrible' pass.
So you're implying that, despite what Carr has done on the field so far this season, neither AJ, Moulds, or any other receiver, has any confidence in David? Your colors are showing.
Like hervoyal said at he beginning of this thread . . you're barking up the wrong tree. His play today, and every game this season so far . . had been the only thing on the offense that has worked. And to blame his "leadership" on why the other parts are not working ?????
Tell me why I shouldn't think you have an agenda.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Because I said that our receivers would have more confidence in Peyton Manning than Carr, all of the sudden I am saying they have no confidence in him. Ok your fishing there. I never said if Carr was a leader he wouldnt have thrown that pass. Read my post, jeezus. I was asking you if what your were saying was that the fact we had no running game forced him to make that bad throw?....Where are you getting all this? Id repost my stuff but its not worth my time...you should just go back and re-read it because you obviously need to.
You need to take a class in reading comprehension. You are putting words in my mouth left and right here. It is actually kind of insulting.
I'm just trying to figure out why it is that you're focusing on Carr's supposed "leadership abilities" when there are so many other glaring weaknesses on the team? It's just that I get this impression from you that if someone else other than Carr QBing the team, then we'd be winning despite those weaknesses? And if I'm correct here . . . why?
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Maybe because that is the TOPIC of this thread. If i wanted to talk about how the OL can't run block or how our RBs are too slow to hit holes I would go to a thread that was on that topic.
By no means do I think that if any other QB was QBing this team we'd win dispite our weaknesses. Maybe you should stop trying to figure me out or whatever your doing...because all you are doing is putting words in my mouth.
If I say that Carr is not a good leader, you change it to I think Carr is the only problem on the team. If I ask you to clarify something you change my QUESTION into a STATEMENT saying I believe that if Carr were a better leader he wouldn't have made bad throws.
By no means do I think that if any other QB was QBing this team we'd win dispite our weaknesses. Maybe you should stop trying to figure me out or whatever your doing...because all you are doing is putting words in my mouth.
If I say that Carr is not a good leader, you change it to I think Carr is the only problem on the team. If I ask you to clarify something you change my QUESTION into a STATEMENT saying I believe that if Carr were a better leader he wouldn't have made bad throws.
All right, let's take a look at your first post.
And you actually wondered why you got the reaction that you did? But then, when you got all sensitive about it, I decided to indulge . . to try to figure out your rationale for making that statement. I guess I wasn't too successful.
I'm done here.