Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Welcome to Houston CJ Stroud

Why are we getting into personal attacks here? Attack the post, not the one who posted. This is supposed to be a friendly discussion about the team and players we root for.
For the record, I wasn't a Stroud fan before the draft. It was due to the OSU stigma of never having produced a quality NFL QB. Once the Texans drafted him, I was on board with rooting for him and giving him the benefit of the doubt until proven different. He's improved each and every week and doesn't make the same mistake very often. That's all I can ask for from a rookie, QB or otherwise. As of now, I'm very optimistic about the young man. He's earned that.
 
banned1976 said:
I think I'm one of them. Admittedly, I don't applaud every pick the Texans make, including Stroud (oops) and Mills (I was very vocal about that pick the day it was made). I have my reasons for not liking (or liking) the pick, I state my case and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. When Mills didn't pan out, I didn't do victory laps around the board, just the opposite - I wasn't happy about him not becoming a star.

I'm not sure what fan criteria baller has in judging others fandom. So, I'm not sure if I'm in the good fan or bad fan camp. I can only speak for myself in saying I'm always skeptical of the Texans decision making. Not because I think I'm smarter than them, it's just that after pouring my guts out for the Oilers in the 70's, 80's and 90's and then the Texans, I'm always leary.
Click to expand...

I didn’t want You g but would rather have Stroud if it must be. I didn’t want either and wanted to wait.

But once he was drafted, and as another poster said, he is a Texan and our QB to root for.

So am I in some sort of group?
 
TexansBull said:
I didn’t want You g but would rather have Stroud if it must be. I didn’t want either and wanted to wait.

But once he was drafted, and as another poster said, he is a Texan and our QB to root for.

So am I in some sort of group?
Click to expand...

Same group I'm in. I'm not sure if we have a name for the group yet. I heard the Jack-in-the-Box spicy crow sandwich with curly fries is pretty good. With a Oreo Shake.
 
thunderkyss said:
That one I deserve.

IF Nick & DeMeco saw a future franchise QB & had to have him I have no qualms over them drafting Stroud. I believe I said so when they drafted him (I probably said, "I don't see it." & stressed that when I said it).

IF Hannah picked him, you guys got nothing to brag about. We got lucky, so far. & I'm good with that too, as long as the Texans are winning.
Click to expand...

Just hold your L like a man T-skyss…we’ll still love you bro
 
76Texan said:
I'm most glad that Stroud realizes all the things surrounding him.
That's a good level of maturity you hope to see in a young QB.
Click to expand...


Dejaview said:
He has never been any different from day one. He loves the game, his team and the city of Houston. He is humble and grateful for his opportunities. Through all of this various more moral and intelligent posters still wanted to destroy his character and intelligence. Most pathetically he is denigrated for having a father in prison and going to a wrong party and having an agent with an inner city tag. I don’t see how any human spirit can improve on that overreaction.
Click to expand...


The one thing I lament about the DW4 thing is he has made me think twice about getting behind a guy thought to be of sound character. Now I’m a bit cynical when I hear these guys talk about their spirituality and how humble they are..but this kid “seems” legit. been mature b/c he had to be; it didn’t come easy for him.

this is him and Bijan talking pre-draft about their road to where they are now.

 
banned1976 said:
I think I'm one of them. Admittedly, I don't applaud every pick the Texans make, including Stroud (oops) and Mills (I was very vocal about that pick the day it was made). I have my reasons for not liking (or liking) the pick, I state my case and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. When Mills didn't pan out, I didn't do victory laps around the board, just the opposite - I wasn't happy about him not becoming a star.

I'm not sure what fan criteria baller has in judging others fandom. So, I'm not sure if I'm in the good fan or bad fan camp. I can only speak for myself in saying I'm always skeptical of the Texans decision making. Not because I think I'm smarter than them, it's just that after pouring my guts out for the Oilers in the 70's, 80's and 90's and then the Texans, I'm always leary.
Click to expand...

And you don't have to like every pick. There's plenty of them I don't like, and then they get on the field and we go from there. Was never thrilled about the Mills pick, but OK, he's the QB, let's see what happens. Well, nothing happened. Didn't like the Stingley pick, but I hoped that he beat all the odds against him with all the injury red flags because the better he plays the better my team is. But so far that ain't working out. Didn't like the Nico pick and his 1st 2 seasons were nowhere worthy of that pick and what they gave up for it. But this season, so far, he's shown signs of breaking out. The difference between me and some posters around here is that I'm happy to be wrong depending on how these players end up playing. I don't stick my head up my ass like some here do because I've already said I don't like the pick and that's it no matter what the player does.

I don't have to try and be right to prove anything to you people, but I'm right more often than not because I trust what I see with my own eyes. If Nico has a 1,400 yard season, I'm not throwing out a bunch of bullshit excuses about how he played a bunch of soft defenses, or his route running isn't that great, or did you see the scum he was hanging out with at some event, or whatever. If I'm wrong about him, fantastic. That means he's playing well which only helps my team. Some people around here can't operate like that. They made their mind up before some of these guys ever play a single snap, and that's it forever. Stroud is off to one of the best starts in NFL history and you've got some douche still spouting S2 scores, or who he hangs out with, or who his agent is. F*** all of that bullshit.

And I'm not saying that after just 3 games we need to start sizing him up for a gold jacket either. I still think Stroud will hit a wall and struggle at some point this season. Playing more games at such a high level every week, team's getting more film on him and all of that. So some tough days are coming which will make the S2 nerds squirt in their pants a little. But right now my eyeballs tell me that he's a thousand times better than what I ever saw out of Mills, give me that 8 days a week.
 
TexansBull said:
I get the excitement about having a talented QB back in Houston. And I want people to be excited because it keeps me excited.

I don’t get the “I told you so” crowd so early. It’s a big excitement killer for me. Why is it so important to say your differing opinion is right.

No playoff wins. No come back wins. Hasn’t shown a healthy season. Hasn’t signed a second contract. Which is kind of a big deal because of who his agent is.

Yet some people think this guy has already won a Superbowl. Be happy but don’t be obnoxious about it.
Click to expand...
Exactly
 
Mr teX said:
Just hold your L like a man T-skyss…we’ll still love you bro
Click to expand...
It's far from an L yet, but at least it's trending in the right direction. Like I've said before let's give this 2 1/2 seasons before judging. (Wentz was a rookie MVP candidate)
 
Speedy said:
And you don't have to like every pick. There's plenty of them I don't like, and then they get on the field and we go from there. Was never thrilled about the Mills pick, but OK, he's the QB, let's see what happens. Well, nothing happened. Didn't like the Stingley pick, but I hoped that he beat all the odds against him with all the injury red flags because the better he plays the better my team is. But so far that ain't working out. Didn't like the Nico pick and his 1st 2 seasons were nowhere worthy of that pick and what they gave up for it. But this season, so far, he's shown signs of breaking out. The difference between me and some posters around here is that I'm happy to be wrong depending on how these players end up playing. I don't stick my head up my ass like some here do because I've already said I don't like the pick and that's it no matter what the player does.

I don't have to try and be right to prove anything to you people, but I'm right more often than not because I trust what I see with my own eyes. If Nico has a 1,400 yard season, I'm not throwing out a bunch of bullshit excuses about how he played a bunch of soft defenses, or his route running isn't that great, or did you see the scum he was hanging out with at some event, or whatever. If I'm wrong about him, fantastic. That means he's playing well which only helps my team. Some people around here can't operate like that. They made their mind up before some of these guys ever play a single snap, and that's it forever. Stroud is off to one of the best starts in NFL history and you've got some douche still spouting S2 scores, or who he hangs out with, or who his agent is. F*** all of that bullshit.

And I'm not saying that after just 3 games we need to start sizing him up for a gold jacket either. I still think Stroud will hit a wall and struggle at some point this season. Playing more games at such a high level every week, team's getting more film on him and all of that. So some tough days are coming which will make the S2 nerds squirt in their pants a little. But right now my eyeballs tell me that he's a thousand times better than what I ever saw out of Mills, give me that 8 days a week.
Click to expand...
Nobody I know on this MB wants Stroud to fail so this post is a fallacy.

S-2 nerds, says Mr. Spreadsheet guy. 😂 You can't make this stuff up.
 
steelbtexan said:
Stroud was well protected ( The key to that play) and Dell was wide open. Very promising, I'm looking forward to seeing a healthy ol. Things should only get better.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised that you didn't say that Stroud under threw that pass.
Personally, I think he under threw it just a little. I think Dell would have scored if the throw had been a half a yard deeper.
 
steelbtexan said:
It's far from an L yet, but at least it's trending in the right direction. Like I've said before let's give this 2 1/2 seasons before judging. (Wentz was a rookie MVP candidate)
Click to expand...

I know what good qb play looks like & he’s playing it at a pretty high level already for him being just a rook…..better than DW4 did b/c with him, it was just about playmaking. Sometimes it would be a pass, sometimes it would be an explosive run. This kid looks like a polished qb already…even tho he’s obviously not.

Speedy said it upthread, he’ll hit a rookie wall at some point, he’ll have some bad games… but it will be b/c he’s facing a team that’s just head and shoulders better than us..then it’ll be on Demeco and NC to surround him with a capable team. I don’t think his rookie wall will be b/c of something teams see on tape about his actual game. The reason imo is b/c the best parts of his game….things like

accuracy
ball placement
comfortability passing from within the pocket..

those are the 3 hardest things to learn how to do & and get better at when playing the position on the pro level. He already has those in spades.

It’s going to be interesting to see how he responds when he throws that 1st pick, his 1st multiple pick game and how Slowik starts calling plays as he gets more comfy. I think the big thing now is you see his teammates rallying around him. They believe in this guy. That’s why I think the protection was so much better in the Jags game. They know that this guy is gonna make plays he just needs the time to be able to get rid of the ball. Can’t say I’ve seen that for any Texans qb ever.
 
DocBar said:
Tim the Tool Man Taylor.
From a sitcom.
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
Mr teX said:
The one thing I lament about the DW4 thing is he has made me think twice about getting behind a guy thought to be of sound character. Now I’m a bit cynical when I hear these guys talk about their spirituality and how humble they are..but this kid “seems” legit. been mature b/c he had to be; it didn’t come easy for him.

this is him and Bijan talking pre-draft about their road to where they are now.

Click to expand...
Look at these guys

1695690468857.png

4 of them look like natural born killers. One looks like someone you'll let watch your kids.

I want the natural born killers on my football team.


:sarcasm:
 
michaelm said:
I'm surprised that you didn't say that Stroud under threw that pass.
Personally, I think he under threw it just a little. I think Dell would have scored if the throw had been a half a yard deeper.
Click to expand...
If this were game 8 or 9 & Tank had made a dozen of those catches I would have complained about that one. But since it's week 3 & that was the first deep pass they connected on, I'm going to let it slide.
 
Mr teX said:
I don’t think his rookie wall will be b/c of something teams see on tape about his actual game. The reason imo is b/c the best parts of his game….things like

accuracy
ball placement
comfortability passing from within the pocket..
Click to expand...
If he keeps spreading the ball around like he does it will make it a long day for DCs to come up with a game plan.
 
Mr teX said:
I know what good qb play looks like & he’s playing it at a pretty high level already for him being just a rook…..better than DW4 did b/c with him, it was just about playmaking. Sometimes it would be a pass, sometimes it would be an explosive run. This kid looks like a polished qb already…even tho he’s obviously not.

Speedy said it upthread, he’ll hit a rookie wall at some point, he’ll have some bad games… but it will be b/c he’s facing a team that’s just head and shoulders better than us..then it’ll be on Demeco and NC to surround him with a capable team. I don’t think his rookie wall will be b/c of something teams see on tape about his actual game. The reason imo is b/c the best parts of his game….things like

accuracy
ball placement
comfortability passing from within the pocket..

those are the 3 hardest things to learn how to do & and get better at when playing the position on the pro level. He already has those in spades.

It’s going to be interesting to see how he responds when he throws that 1st pick, his 1st multiple pick game and how Slowik starts calling plays as he gets more comfy. I think the big thing now is you see his teammates rallying around him. They believe in this guy. That’s why I think the protection was so much better in the Jags game. They know that this guy is gonna make plays he just needs the time to be able to get rid of the ball. Can’t say I’ve seen that for any Texans qb ever.
Click to expand...
This is what I've seen so far. Where he's surprised me is that while not perfect the first two weeks, he really hung in there and really improved in week three, which is what you want to see. This is why everybody should be excited to see what Stroud can do when the OL finally gets healthy. What also has surprised me is how good the WR corps has looked. I would say that the Texans have the best WR group in the division and a top 15 group. There's decent depth there too. The future is brighter than it ever would've been with Derrick IMHO. The thing that I still worry about is after yr 3 is David from the inner city going to destroy everything that's been built down on Kirby with Stroud's 2nd contract.
 
michaelm said:
Doesn't matter what changed. No excuses.
You won't accept excuses when Stroud does poorly, so why make excuses when he performs well?
Click to expand...
I can see I hit a nerve.

Those weren't excuses at all. Those were legitimate questions.
 
Last edited:
thunderkyss said:
If he keeps spreading the ball around like he does it will make it a long day for DCs to come up with a game plan.
Click to expand...
The OL has to hold up and Watt/Highsmith are a lot tougher challenges than what the Jags put up. Love the improvement though.
 
michaelm said:
I'm surprised that you didn't say that Stroud under threw that pass.
Personally, I think he under threw it just a little. I think Dell would have scored if the throw had been a half a yard deeper.
Click to expand...
I dont expect a QB to be perfect. I do expect a QB to play his best in the toughest situations.
 
steelbtexan said:
This is what I've seen so far. Where he's surprised me is that while not perfect the first two weeks, he really hung in there and really improved in week three, which is what you want to see. This is why everybody should be excited to see what Stroud can do when the OL finally gets healthy. What also has surprised me is how good the WR corps has looked. I would say that the Texans have the best WR group in the division and a top 15 group. There's decent depth there too. The future is brighter than it ever would've been with Derrick IMHO. The thing that I still worry about is after yr 3 is David from the inner city going to destroy everything that's been built down on Kirby with Stroud's 2nd contract.
Click to expand...

That is what also surprises me, with the amount of injuries and a non existent running game I keep expecting him to fold but the kid hangs in there. It will be a good test for Stroud in facing the heat the steeler defense will bring
 
steelbtexan said:
The last part I'm of the prove it mindset. Because he's got the same agent and admires the guy who's a sexual predator. Hopefully he's everything you think he is.
Click to expand...
Agreed on your first paragraph.

I’m genuinely interested to know, and please I don’t mean any offence to those who are religious on this board, but devout Christianity is not the norm in the UK, so when I see him quote the gospel at the podium and whatnot it comes across as frankly insincere to hear a young person speaking like that, do you suspect he is doing that as part of an act of what?

You certainly can’t go about talking about all that religious twaddle and then go around behaving like Deshaun Watson either in your personal life or your business dealings and keep any semblance of dignity can you?
 
welsh texan said:
Agreed on your first paragraph.

I’m genuinely interested to know, and please I don’t mean any offence to those who are religious on this board, but devout Christianity is not the norm in the UK, so when I see him quote the gospel at the podium and whatnot it comes across as frankly insincere to hear a young person speaking like that, do you suspect he is doing that as part of an act of what?

You certainly can’t go about talking about all that religious twaddle and then go around behaving like Deshaun Watson either in your personal life or your business dealings and keep any semblance of dignity can you?
Click to expand...

I'm not one to judge other people's faith.

However after seeing the pics of Derrick being baptized in the River Jordan and how that turned out, Stroud hanging out with the same crowd/representation that Derrick does and the fact that Stroud said he looks up to Derrick makes me leery.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Exactly but ole Thunder has to stick to that pressure narrative.
Click to expand...
Slow down friend.

Just because they blitzed doesn't mean Cj was under pressure.

Stats I've heard (& more or less remember) 0 sacks, 4 hits. His play "under pressure" wasn't tested much, if at all Sunday. That's not a knock on him. Getting the ball out on time was on him, so he helped the protection. The kid had a good day. Don't make this about me & your poor understanding of "when he's pressured."
 
welsh texan said:
You certainly can’t go about talking about all that religious twaddle and then go around behaving like Deshaun Watson either in your personal life or your business dealings and keep any semblance of dignity can you?
Click to expand...

since when?

I’m sure he was referring to their game play when he brought up Vick/Watson (let’s not forget he mentioned burrow too).
 
thunderkyss said:
Slow down friend.

Just because they blitzed doesn't mean Cj was under pressure.

Stats I've heard (& more or less remember) 0 sacks, 4 hits. His play "under pressure" wasn't tested much, if at all Sunday. That's not a knock on him. Getting the ball out on time was on him, so he helped the protection. The kid had a good day. Don't make this about me & your poor understanding of "when he's pressured."
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, "pressure" and "under pressure" are such squishy terms with different contextual meanings that it's almost impossible for everyone to compare apples to oranges.

I mean, technically, if someone brings more than the down lineman at the QB, that's "bringing pressure", but if someone gets close to the QB when he's throwing, that's "under pressure". This makes the whole concept hard to discuss.

Sometimes, people are looking at the QB's efficiency in a dirty pocket (aka when they're under pressure) but other people are just looking at his efficiency when the D brought pressure.

With CJ and his ability to make pre-snap reads and identify where he's hot, his problem isn't when people blitz him, but when his blockers don't pick it up properly and he's got guys in his face and at his feet.

I think.
 
welsh texan said:
Agreed on your first paragraph.

I’m genuinely interested to know, and please I don’t mean any offence to those who are religious on this board, but devout Christianity is not the norm in the UK, so when I see him quote the gospel at the podium and whatnot it comes across as frankly insincere to hear a young person speaking like that, do you suspect he is doing that as part of an act of what?

You certainly can’t go about talking about all that religious twaddle and then go around behaving like Deshaun Watson either in your personal life or your business dealings and keep any semblance of dignity can you?
Click to expand...

So, what is it exactly that you were “genuinely interested to know” again?

Because it seems like to me you’ve already passed judgement on his character, all from the way he introduces himself at the podium, and who he associates with. You don’t need to ask us, as you’ve already decided yourself that it’s all “just an act”. If you think he’s a lowlife scumbag hypocrite, just come out and say it.
 
zshawn10 said:
And they will ruin Caleb as well. Caleb himself said he will go back to school if it’s not the right situation for him in the nfl
Click to expand...

I’m waiting for the first player to execute this move….and Caleb could be the first to successfully pull it off.

Instead of returning to USC, Caleb signs with an USFL/XFL team for a season. He’s now a professional football player looking to change leagues as an UFA.

USFL players have already successfully done this by being invited by a team for a tryout and then signed as an UFA if he shows he can compete.

That would be the easiest way for him to control his future. If the NFL attempted to block this….Caleb may have decent case.
 
welsh texan said:
Agreed on your first paragraph.

I’m genuinely interested to know, and please I don’t mean any offence to those who are religious on this board, but devout Christianity is not the norm in the UK, so when I see him quote the gospel at the podium and whatnot it comes across as frankly insincere to hear a young person speaking like that, do you suspect he is doing that as part of an act of what?

You certainly can’t go about talking about all that religious twaddle and then go around behaving like Deshaun Watson either in your personal life or your business dealings and keep any semblance of dignity can you?
Click to expand...

Since my son-in-law is British - and knowing he knew very little about American religious culture, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not jump down your throat and accuse you of being a Stroud hater.

I'm going on the assumption you didn't mean Stroud is behaving like Watson, you were just comparing how Stroud talks "gospel" at the podium the same way DW, and others, do.

I'm not speaking of Stroud specifically here, to my knowledge he hasn't ever done anything against his faith and what he believes, but in general in the US you will hear politicians, actors, presidents, ceo's whoever, speak some form or religious "gospel" (you know, "thank you for the award!, Can't believe I won!, first I would like to thank God and my family), while after the speech doing whatever nefarious actions that their God would frown upon (not all, but a lot).

And yes I believe most sensible people in this country, hear that from certain individuals and shake their head in disbelief, but it is a very common thing to do in this country so I wouldn't hold Stroud in a negative light just because of that, and you probably shouldn't either (just advise, I can't tell you what to believe about anyone or anything).

Hope that helps clarify.

Mods - went a bit into religion to try and answer, what I believe was an honest question from someone on the board not familiar with US customs. If it's wrong, move or delete as you see fit. If it get's me a warning etc. - I understand.
 
welsh texan said:
Agreed on your first paragraph.

I’m genuinely interested to know, and please I don’t mean any offence to those who are religious on this board, but devout Christianity is not the norm in the UK, so when I see him quote the gospel at the podium and whatnot it comes across as frankly insincere to hear a young person speaking like that, do you suspect he is doing that as part of an act of what?

You certainly can’t go about talking about all that religious twaddle and then go around behaving like Deshaun Watson either in your personal life or your business dealings and keep any semblance of dignity can you?
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t fret about it. god is personal and different for everybody. You can interview ten people coming from a Catholic mass and get ten different visions of the god they were praying to. Some early classical Greeks even argued that god was a human invention to keep people civil when nobody was looking, lol. Your last paragraph is correct but it’s on the person only. It takes character to have convictions and Thoreau I think said it right when he said something like a man is rich in proportion to the things he can leave alone. DW is poor in that respect. To me CJ just doesn’t seem to want to be anything other than a great football player in every aspect of what that means. If nothing else god ( any god that’s god to anyone) is a source of hope and strength and if that can lead CJ to be a ”Better Man”...my Keb Mo shoutout… then I’m embracing it.
 
Lucky said:
But let's pump the brakes on what a good defense the Jags have.
Click to expand...
Sweech said:
For sure, but it's a bit rich to do the "pump the brakes" after a good performance and a win and then a full diagnosis of his lack of decision making skills and bad S2 score based on one single throw in a loss.
Click to expand...
Did not say anything about pumping the brakes on C.J., he's showing out. Talking about the Jags defense. All gas, no brakes for Stroud.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Unfortunately, "pressure" and "under pressure" are such squishy terms with different contextual meanings that it's almost impossible for everyone to compare apples to oranges.

I mean, technically, if someone brings more than the down lineman at the QB, that's "bringing pressure", but if someone gets close to the QB when he's throwing, that's "under pressure". This makes the whole concept hard to discuss.

Sometimes, people are looking at the QB's efficiency in a dirty pocket (aka when they're under pressure) but other people are just looking at his efficiency when the D brought pressure.

With CJ and his ability to make pre-snap reads and identify where he's hot, his problem isn't when people blitz him, but when his blockers don't pick it up properly and he's got guys in his face and at his feet.

I think.
Click to expand...
My take on "under pressure" is rather simple and easily observed on film. 1) when he doesn't have time to go through his reads; and 2) when he doesn't have time to set his feet.
 
TexansBull said:
I get the excitement about having a talented QB back in Houston. And I want people to be excited because it keeps me excited.

I don’t get the “I told you so” crowd so early. It’s a big excitement killer for me. Why is it so important to say your differing opinion is right.

No playoff wins. No come back wins. Hasn’t shown a healthy season. Hasn’t signed a second contract. Which is kind of a big deal because of who his agent is.

Yet some people think this guy has already won a Superbowl. Be happy but don’t be obnoxious about it.
Click to expand...
Why would your “I told you so” crowd say I told you so if there weren’t any others beforehand saying I told you so before CJ even threw his first NFL pass? Other than that this season is an open book for I told you so so’ers.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Unfortunately, "pressure" and "under pressure" are such squishy terms with different contextual meanings that it's almost impossible for everyone to compare apples to oranges.

I mean, technically, if someone brings more than the down lineman at the QB, that's "bringing pressure", but if someone gets close to the QB when he's throwing, that's "under pressure". This makes the whole concept hard to discuss.

Sometimes, people are looking at the QB's efficiency in a dirty pocket (aka when they're under pressure) but other people are just looking at his efficiency when the D brought pressure.

With CJ and his ability to make pre-snap reads and identify where he's hot, his problem isn't when people blitz him, but when his blockers don't pick it up properly and he's got guys in his face and at his feet.

I think.
Click to expand...
This is my problem with subjective rating systems like PFF. What exactly is their definition of pressure & how are all the people evaluating the games trained. Since all games are not rated by the same person you know there is a difference. Hell just watch how two different groups of NFL officials call games.
 
Dejaview said:
Why would your “I told you so” crowd say I told you so if there weren’t any others beforehand saying I told you so before CJ even threw his first NFL pass? Other than that this season is an open book for I told you so so’ers.
Click to expand...
Which would be true if I had commented on Strouds play this season. What I said was 1. lets give this 2 1/2 to 3 yrs before judging Stroud. 2. I dont like the person or player. Hopefully he will prove me wrong after yr 3 on the person account and continue to grow as a player.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top