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Nick Caserio - New GM

Texian said:
The 2021 tradeline Caserio said he would accept nothing less than 3 1st RDs, 3 2nd RD picks or a combination of players of equal value. Caserio did not get close to his demands. In fact after the 3 1st RD picks the rest of the trade wasn't close to Caserio's demands, 1 3rd RD and 2 4ths were rather weak, considering. Just to put things in perspective, that deaf dumb, and blind boy in the Who's Pinball Wizard could have got 3 1st RD picks in the Watson trade.

"Caserio is determined to get as close to full value as possible for Watson, and reportedly, his demands include three first-round picks and some combination of three second-round picks or young players who could make an impact for years to come".

www.chron.com

Deshaun Watson may be stuck in Houston as trade deadline nears

Just two days away from the NFL trade deadline and the Texans are dug in on their demands...
www.chron.com www.chron.com
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Yet he got the 2nd most value in NFL history out of the Derrick trade. If that's failure, then I hope Caserio continues to fail in your eyes.
 
TexansBull said:
Caserio set the market high with a price that couldn’t be met. The market came down a bit that happens but for the most part got what he wanted. Ok. That typically happens in any negotiation.

Instead of 3 1’s and 3 2’s with some players he got 3 1’s, a 3, and 2 4’s and had to give away a sixth in 2024. No players.

He saw a window open and got it done. Sounds like he bargained well for a player who wouldn’t play for 2 years and allegedly assaulted 30+ women.

In my opinion he did a great job. In yours he didn’t. I know we are going to spin our wheels going back and forth.

Agree to disagree. No name calling. No passive aggressive over the top comments.

Happy Thanksgiving.
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Great post

I think Caserio wanted to deal with Carolina, where he could have gotten picks and players.

Derrick shot that down.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yet he got the 2nd most value in NFL history out of the Derrick trade. If that's failure, then I hope Caserio continues to fail in your eyes.
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I wouldn’t trade my first round pick in the current draft for the same pick in next year’s draft or the draft after that. They simply are not worth the same.

Any time I considered the value of a trade I count future draft picks as if they were a round lower. A 2024 1st is “equivalent” to a 2023 2nd. A 2025 1st is “equivalent” to a 2023 3rd.

I’ve been pretty consistent about this since I’ve been here.

That said, the three 1st round picks the Texans got for DeShaun are effectively a 1st, a 2nd, & a 3rd in 2022 “draft dollars”

Granted if I prefer the 1st round picks to be spread out over time.

in comparison the Redskins received 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, & 6th round pick of the current draft and a 1st & 3rd round pick of the next draft for Ricky Williams (basically).
 
thunderkyss said:
I wouldn’t trade my first round pick in the current draft for the same pick in next year’s draft or the draft after that. They simply are not worth the same.

Any time I considered the value of a trade I count future draft picks as if they were a round lower. A 2024 1st is “equivalent” to a 2023 2nd. A 2025 1st is “equivalent” to a 2023 3rd.

I’ve been pretty consistent about this since I’ve been here.

That said, the three 1st round picks the Texans got for DeShaun are effectively a 1st, a 2nd, & a 3rd in 2022 “draft dollars”

Granted if I prefer the 1st round picks to be spread out over time.

in comparison the Redskins received 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, & 6th round pick of the current draft and a 1st & 3rd round pick of the next draft for Ricky Williams (basically).
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Disagree with your theory, but even if you're right, Caserio still made the 2nd best trade of draft picks for a single player in NFL history.
 
steelbtexan said:
Disagree with your theory, but even if you're right, Caserio still made the 2nd best trade of draft picks for a single player in NFL history.
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If we were talking draft day grades you’d be right in line with “my theory” that’s from the same trade valuation chart we talk about every draft.

I’m thinking Herschel Walker, Ricky Williams & I’m sure there are more. Basically you got a 1st, 2nd, & a third for Watson. Any player traded for two 2s (Matt Schaub) is equivalent
 
thunderkyss said:
If we were talking draft day grades you’d be right in line with “my theory” that’s from the same trade valuation chart we talk about every draft.

I’m thinking Herschel Walker, Ricky Williams & I’m sure there are more. Basically you got a 1st, 2nd, & a third for Watson. Any player traded for two 2s (Matt Schaub) is equivalent
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Not everyone uses the weird grading system you use
 
And he got those assets while dealing with the NTC BOB and Easterby handed out. Like mentioned above, Carolina and others may have sweetened the Texans pot, but that was not he nor his agents priority, actually the less we gt the happier we were, so even though NC does some bad cap moves, his drafting and dealing seems fine. Past regimes would have buckled and let him go for a song. Also, since people knew he would not play for half a year, impacts the potentail return as well as the media backlash
 
Rich Schmidt said:
And he got those assets while dealing with the NTC BOB and Easterby handed out. Like mentioned above, Carolina and others may have sweetened the Texans pot, but that was not he nor his agents priority, actually the less we gt the happier we were, so even though NC does some bad cap moves, his drafting and dealing seems fine. Past regimes would have buckled and let him go for a song. Also, since people knew he would not play for half a year, impacts the potentail return as well as the media backlash
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Do the Texans have plenty of cap space next off-season.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yet he got the 2nd most value in NFL history out of the Derrick trade. If that's failure, then I hope Caserio continues to fail in your eyes.
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I'm measuring Caserio on Caserio's words and actions, not mine. He says one thing and then does another. He uses draft picks to trade for players he cuts only weeks later, and he uses 10 draft picks to draft 5 players. That's Nick, that's not me.
 
Earl34 said:
IMHO. Before crowning him. I think we should wait to see what he does with those draft picks. Fool me once........
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I don’t think anyone is crowning him.

More of don’t say he is a failure for the job so far or say that anyone could have done the Watson trade.

You have people screaming for his head. It is premature.

If you are going to say it is too early to crown him make sure you tell the other crowd it is too early to call him a failure.
 
Texian said:
I'm measuring Caserio on Caserio's words and actions, not mine. He says one thing and then does another. He uses draft picks to trade for players he cuts only weeks later, and he uses 10 draft picks to draft 5 players. That's Nick, that's not me.
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What you want and what you get is up for negotiation. Bottom line is he got the 2nd most in a trade for a single player in NFL history and that's with the player holding the ultimate trump card.

I would say Caserio did a great job given the circumstances.
 
TexansBull said:
I don’t think anyone is crowning him.

More of don’t say he is a failure for the job so far or say that anyone could have done the Watson trade.

You have people screaming for his head. It is premature.

If you are going to say it is too early to crown him make sure you tell the other crowd it is too early to call him a failure.
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It took 2 years to cleanup BOBs mess and it will take another 2-3 yrs to rebuild the team. That's how bad of shape this org was in. No GM or HC is going to change this timeline.

I just hope Cal gets out of the HC hiring business.
 
TexansBull said:
I don’t think anyone is crowning him.

More of don’t say he is a failure for the job so far or say that anyone could have done the Watson trade.

You have people screaming for his head. It is premature.

If you are going to say it is too early to crown him make sure you tell the other crowd it is too early to call him a failure.
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After another loss to the Patriots. When they asked O'Brien why he didn't challenge a call, he said, "It's not my job". I say the same thing to you.

Caserio has enough defenders and you are already doing a good job. No need for me to chime in. Just keep up the good work. :shades:
 
steelbtexan said:
What you want and what you get is up for negotiation. Bottom line is he got the 2nd most in a trade for a single player in NFL history and that's with the player holding the ultimate trump card.

I would say Caserio did a great job given the circumstances.
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Contrary to popular belief DW4 did not hold the ultimate trump card. Nick Caserio held the ultimate trump card. You see DW4 had identified 3 teams he agreed to be traded to. Nick Caserio had all the power to pull the trigger, or not. Nick to Cleveland, you're willing to fully guarantee Watson's salary. That's great. You're 3 1st RDs are fantastic. You're going to have to do much better than one 3rd RD and 2 4th RD picks in order for me to pull the trigger. Your offer for the 2nd most in an NFL trade is a great start. When you get to the #1 trade in the NFL we can make this happen. Like most Caserio trades (Watson, Roby) Caserio ends up getting the short end of the stick.
 
steelbtexan said:
It took 2 years to cleanup BOBs mess and it will take another 2-3 yrs to rebuild the team. That's how bad of shape this org was in. No GM or HC is going to change this timeline.

I just hope Cal gets out of the HC hiring business.
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Bill O'Brien's mess will still continue to permeate the halls of the Kirby Board Room for many years to come. The Texans will have to perform a complete house cleaning, exorcism, and a couple of enemas to get rid of the ghosts and stench of Bill O'Brien. The sooner the better. The best argument for flushing Lovie, Pep, and Caserio ASAP is it will still give a new organization a huge amount of ammunition going forward. The massive amount of ammunition makes the Texans' new HC/GM job very attractive, and possibly even for the most successful proven candidates. So for that reason, I'm all in for calling in Roto-Rooter the day after the season ends. The first step is getting rid of this cesspool. Fickell, Luke Fickell, Fickell?

Knowing Cal, he will wait until this group of misfits has completely pissed away the Watson ransom before firing the entire bunch. Then Cal will have the Texans back in the position where they always have been and are most comfortable with, looking for another bunch of misfits to hire. Not to worry thou, you've to trust Cal because he knows what he's doing.
 
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Earl34 said:
After another loss to the Patriots. When they asked O'Brien why he didn't challenge a call, he said, "It's not my job". I say the same thing to you.

Caserio has enough defenders and you are already doing a good job. No need for me to chime in. Just keep up the good work. :shades:
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Typical.
 
Texian said:
Contrary to popular belief DW4 did not hold the ultimate trump card. Nick Caserio held the ultimate trump card. You see DW4 had identified 3 teams he agreed to be traded to. Nick Caserio had all the power to pull the trigger, or not. Nick to Cleveland, you're willing to fully guarantee Watson's salary. That's great. You're 3 1st RDs are fantastic. You're going to have to do much better than one 3rd RD and 2 4th RD picks in order for me to pull the trigger. Your offer for the 2nd most in an NFL trade is a great start. When you get to the #1 trade in the NFL we can make this happen. Like most Caserio trades (Watson, Roby) Caserio ends up getting the short end of the stick.
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Disagree about who has the most leverage in the Derrick trade.

The rest of your post and how much he got for an above avg QB but not a top 5 QB is up for debate. He got more in trade than I thought he would have gotten. Of course if I was a GM I never would've drafted or traded for Derrick to begin with, so he had no value to me, particularly given the circumstances.
 
steelbtexan said:
Disagree about who has the most leverage in the Derrick trade.

The rest of your post and how much he got for an above avg QB but not a top 5 QB is up for debate. He got more in trade than I thought he would have gotten. Of course if I was a GM I never would've drafted or traded for Derrick to begin with, so he had no value to me, particularly given the circumstances.
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Watson was a QB that hadn’t played in a year and had 20+ sexual assault allegations. People forget about that. A lot of teams inquired about Watson and then walked away when Caserio told them the price. Four or five remained for that reason. To even have that many was surprising with the baggage.

And let’s not forget - at that point no one knew how many games he would be suspend. That still had to be solved. People are also forgetting that.

And Watson had the NTC to cancel everything.
 
steelbtexan said:
Disagree about who has the most leverage in the Derrick trade.

The rest of your post and how much he got for an above avg QB but not a top 5 QB is up for debate. He got more in trade than I thought he would have gotten. Of course if I was a GM I never would've drafted or traded for Derrick to begin with, so he had no value to me, particularly given the circumstances.
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You don't have a bias against Watson, you have a pure unadulterated hate for him. So it's no surprise that your view is completely compromised. BTW Jimmy Haslam completely disagrees with you. If Jimmy was willing to give Watson a fully guaranteed contract, Jimmy certainly would have been willing to do better than a 3rd RD and 2 4th RDs. That's chicken feed compared to the fully GTD contract. Your boy got played.
 
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Texian said:
You don't have a bias against Watson, you have a pure unadulterated hate for him. So it's no surprise that your view is completely compromised. BTW Jimmy Haslam completely disagrees with you. If Jimmy was willing to give Watson a fully guaranteed contract, Jimmy certainly would have been willing to do better than a 3rd RD and 2 4th RDs. That's chicken feed compared to the fully GTD contract.
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The GTD contract came after the agreement to talk to Watson. Essentially Haslam paid the entrance fee and then was allowed to deal with Watson. Caserio couldn’t go back and ask for more. That’s not how deals and agreements work.

It works the same way for an all you can eat buffet. You pay the same no matter how many times you go to the trough.
 
Double Barrel said:
Yep, not to mention the public relations and ego management Caserio had to work in order to get Towel Boy to be somewhat amicable about the NDA that Nick had nothing to do with creating.

That trade was not a done deal by any means. There was a short window of opportunity that Caserio had to exploit right when the grand jury charges were dropped and teams were at the height of interest in the trade.

Watson could have set his terms for only one team regardless of what the Texans could get in return. Caserio had a disadvantage because the NDA gave Watson the leverage.
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Disagree.

When there's a demand, the price is always driven higher.

There were numerous teams that were interested.

Without interest, the Texans weren't to get squat.
 
76Texan said:
Disagree.

When there's a demand, the price is always driven higher.

There were numerous teams that were interested.

Without interest, the Texans weren't to get squat.
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There were 4 teams willing to meet Caserio's price and he gave them permission to talk to Watson... he told Cleveland no and narrowed it down to three. Cleveland went back to him with the fully guaranteed contract offer that no other team would match so Watson waived his NTC for ONE team. Caserio was then able to get 3 additional picks out of them
 
beerlover said:
Just one example, you are a homer, 76Texan is a hater.
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I realize reality, this team is three years away if things go right away from being a contender.

I liked Caserio's 1st full draft class. I thought he did a great job on the Derrick trade, but whether he did well or not comes down to what he does with the draft picks. I believe since he did the Derrick trade he should at least get to make those picks. Particularly after seeing his last draft and I say this knowing if I was doing the drafting I would have draft in a completely different way.

Does this make me a homer? Unlike 76 who didn't like the Caserio hire to begin with and now is trying to justify his thoughts, even though he hasn't said one thing that he would have done differently than Caserio. At least I've put in writing what I would have done differently.

76 is what's known as a 2nd guessing whiner in the world I do business in. Funny also people with that type of personality are never wrong.
 
76Texan said:
Disagree.

When there's a demand, the price is always driven higher.

There were numerous teams that were interested.

Without interest, the Texans weren't to get squat.
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Watson just threw his middle finger up at the teams you are negotiating with. And your owner demands you get the trade done.

What's your next move, Mr. G.M.?

Your demand rhetoric is undermined by the reality of the situation. And your dislike of Caserio clouds your ability to be anything close to objective and logical.
 
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steelbtexan said:
I realize reality, this team is three years away if things go right away from being a contender.

I liked Caserio's 1st full draft class. I thought he did a great job on the Derrick trade, but whether he did well or not comes down to what he does with the draft picks. I believe since he did the Derrick trade he should at least get to make those picks. Particularly after seeing his last draft and I say this knowing if I was doing the drafting I would have draft in a completely different way.

Does this make me a homer? Unlike 76 who didn't like the Caserio hire to begin with and now is trying to justify his thoughts, even though he hasn't said one thing that he would have done differently than Caserio. At least I've put in writing what I would have done differently.

76 is what's known as a 2nd guessing whiner in the world I do business in. Funny also people with that type of personality are never wrong.
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You said we were three years away five years ago. Hopefully you are finally right this time.
 
steelbtexan said:
I realize reality, this team is three years away if things go right away from being a contender.

I liked Caserio's 1st full draft class. I thought he did a great job on the Derrick trade, but whether he did well or not comes down to what he does with the draft picks. I believe since he did the Derrick trade he should at least get to make those picks. Particularly after seeing his last draft and I say this knowing if I was doing the drafting I would have draft in a completely different way.

Does this make me a homer?
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Your support of Caserio is unwavering whatever examples you wish to highlight. We all want Texan “draft picks” to be successful but they’re misses more than hits. I’m one of your biggest supporters but your hate of DM is unbridled and blame him for poisoning DW and Texans as a whole. Then there are the posters who you disagree with, apparently even me now, who see things differently that aren’t complementary of your beloved Texans. I get that, it’s hard to criticize something you love, but more often than not, Texans deserve criticism.

Caserio has already proven to many of us, not to be a very good evaluator of talent. He’s had picks, high picks and whiffed. Define your ideal GM? Caserio is a football operations manager, fast talker, smart yet not someone you gravitate towards & play hard for. How he judges talent will limit an organizations ceiling, especially if you’re taking off the board clients of Athletes First.

Long story short, hard as I try to be neutral and see both sides of these arguments places me on the opposite side of you, which is disappointing to say the least. I’m in the clean house camp, including Caserio and bring in more experienced GM who can change Texan culture and put a better product/team on the field.
 
Double Barrel said:
Watson just threw his middle finger up at the teams you are negotiating with. And your owner demands you get the trade done.

What's your next move, Mr. G.M.?

Your demand rhetoric is undermined by the reality of the situation. And your dislike of Caserio clouds your ability to be anything close to objective and logical.
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I disagree again.

Last year, when the case was still unclear, there was no buyer.

Everybody knows that they will have to wait until the situation becomes clearer.

This year, when it did (no criminal case), that was when the buyers came back.

NC was only facilitating the trade.
 
steelbtexan said:
I realize reality, this team is three years away if things go right away from being a contender.

I liked Caserio's 1st full draft class. I thought he did a great job on the Derrick trade, but whether he did well or not comes down to what he does with the draft picks. I believe since he did the Derrick trade he should at least get to make those picks. Particularly after seeing his last draft and I say this knowing if I was doing the drafting I would have draft in a completely different way.

Does this make me a homer? Unlike 76 who didn't like the Caserio hire to begin with and now is trying to justify his thoughts, even though he hasn't said one thing that he would have done differently than Caserio. At least I've put in writing what I would have done differently.

76 is what's known as a 2nd guessing whiner in the world I do business in. Funny also people with that type of personality are never wrong.
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I told you many times already.

Like when NC brought in Cannon and Britt, I disagreed.
I even named several other players that were in roughly the same price range but without the injury concerns.

I disagreed with the Mills' pick, also naming a few Olinemen and Dlinemnen that the Texans could have taken insread.
 
beerlover said:
Then there are the posters who you disagree with, apparently even me now, who see things differently that aren’t complementary of your beloved Texans.
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Then there are the posters that disagree with steelb no matter what he says because he is steelb. Many times I disagree with him but not always like some posters do. And many times steelb makes some ridiculous comments that are proven true years later.
 
76Texan said:
I disagree again.

Last year, when the case was still unclear, there was no buyer.

Everybody knows that they will have to wait until the situation becomes clearer.

This year, when it did (no criminal case), that was when the buyers came back.

NC was only facilitating the trade.
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You are not factoring in that the asset, Watson in this case, being traded goes down in value over time because he was not playing and more details come out about the alleged sexual assaults.

A new car goes down in value as it sits longer and longer on the lot. Newer cars come out, just like players being drafted, and replace the new cars value because the new car is older now.

This trade did not take place in an excel spreadsheet.
 
steelbtexan said:
I realize reality, this team is three years away if things go right away from being a contender.

I liked Caserio's 1st full draft class. I thought he did a great job on the Derrick trade, but whether he did well or not comes down to what he does with the draft picks. I believe since he did the Derrick trade he should at least get to make those picks. Particularly after seeing his last draft and I say this knowing if I was doing the drafting I would have draft in a completely different way.

Does this make me a homer? Unlike 76 who didn't like the Caserio hire to begin with and now is trying to justify his thoughts, even though he hasn't said one thing that he would have done differently than Caserio. At least I've put in writing what I would have done differently.

76 is what's known as a 2nd guessing whiner in the world I do business in. Funny also people with that type of personality are never wrong.
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This year, with the Oline situation more stable (had the Texans followed my strategy last year), they could take Sauce and Pickett.
(I was open for Thibodaux, too).

Beyond that, I was nó longer interested in the draft as I had lost most interests in the Texans.
I'm now just a spectator to the debacle and watch it with amusement.
 
TexansBull said:
You are not factoring in that the asset, Watson in this case, being traded goes down in value over time because he was not playing and more details come out about the alleged sexual assaults.

A new car goes down in value as it sits longer and longer on the lot. Newer cars come out, just like players being drafted, and replace the new cars value because the new car is older now.

This trade did not take place in an excel spreadsheet.
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Never mind.
This is not going anywhere.
 
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