What HC could DW have had that he wouldn't go hard for..?
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Watson’s a top 5 qb. Do you agree?
- Thread starter DanielTx
- Start date
Now tell me what they haven't changed ?
You asked in another post somewhere - Has Watson improved in picking up the blitz and your response is NO.
That's Wrong as Wrong can get. Watson has been killing the blitz. So much so that teams almost never blitz him anymore. Buffalo blitzed him on 4 plays in the wildcard came , I don't think KC sent more than 4 ONCE.
Why don't thy blitz him ? Because he makes them pay for it …. and they really don't have to because of my first point - what hasn't changed is the offensive philosophy / play calling.
Defenses can rush 4 and eventually get to Watson because …. no one's open. Hell there are many plays during a game where one defender can cover two receivers because their routes bring them that close to one another - while the middle of the field is empty. How bout that RPO where the DE bites on the RB and Watson is asked to give it to him anyway ?
This offense is downright idiotic.
What's wrong with Watson can be fixed with the right schemes and play calls. When's the last time you saw OB call a RB screen ?! How many quick slants do we see or TE's up the middle of the seams ? Nope 1st down run it up the gut.
This offense is getting by strictly on the talent of a few players making just enough plays rather than taking advantage of the strengths of those players.
What hasn't changed is OB and his offensive offense. Change that and you likely get a hell of a lot more out of Watson - despite his flaws.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Casserly and Rick were back to back disasters for this franchise.
How about the offense going on an 8 min drive in the 2nd qtr to take time off of the clock so there would be no way they would have enough time to score 28 pts in a qtr. This was a total team failure. HC/Offense (Including DW4) defense and I would even add ST's.
I dont think DW4 has peaked.
I do think he has much improvement to make.
I'm not tooting my own horn. Just stating facts, facts that some on here dont care for much.
RGV82
Random guy
I definitely agree that he hasn't peaked yet, but he won't be able to playing under this coaching regime.
I'm all for getting a new HC or at least a new playcaller. Those flaws will always be there and aren't going away. Accuracy/Anticipation.
As far as the blitz goes, how many times have we seen the Colts run the same exact blitz and sack DW4 that Buffalo did on the pass to Jones?
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
How is Emperor Buttchin working out for you as a GM? LOL.
Yes , the flaws will likely remain , at least to some extent but you can mask those faults with scheme / playcalling.
Watson's definitely good enough to win with - IF you have the right pieces around him. Much worse QB's have won super bowls.
And what happened on the pass to Jones ?!
That's why teams have stopped blitzing him almost completely.
You blitz Watson , it leads to big plays.
You keep him between the hash marks and collapse the pocket on him …. not so much. He has to either get the ball out or get out himself earlier.
I don't believe that was the totality of his philosophy. Just a guy with Kubiak will do. Maybe.
But even then you'd have to think someone special with Kubiak would be special.
As of right now DW4 isn't close to being a QB with the ability to win a SB.
The slot CB blitz. DW4's got issues reading that blitz in particular. But yes, it's easier to rush 4 and confuse him.
You agree Deshaun Watson has accuracy & anticipation issues?
I wonder how good the Rams would have been without Marshall Faulk
stingray
Hall of Fame
I was a Rams fan since a kid before Texans came into existence. Warner made the Rams offense elite but Faulk made it special.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Unless you somehow think that Warner, Holt, Pace, and Bruce all stunk then they'd have probably been pretty good with a serviceable RB. Pretty odd question to ask considering the fact that Warner won like 2 MVP's and was a candidate the last season on a totally different team that stunk before he arrived there.
Wish we had a Marshall Faulk.
Yes.
He almost never makes anticipatory throws.
Nor does he "throw guys open."
His accuracy is …. good enough but not spectacular. He gets it in the vicinity … but not pinpoint accurate.
This is first hand information , not hearsay.
Those two went back and forth about the QB spot over several years.
Gouldo
From the land down under with vegemite sangas.
No, not in that order. Thats my view. Rodgers is a shade below those 5.
RGV82
Random guy
Just hoping you can expand on this. I am not sure what you mean by he fell off as the season wore on. His QB rating was actually HIGHER in the 2nd half of the season. He also started the season 4-3, and finished 6-2. I agree that his last game of the season against TB was pretty bad, but I am not sure how you are saying his entire 2nd half of the season was bad.
Yep, reading is indeed fundamental. Watson WAS the difference. It's 100% clear unless you enjoy putting blinders on. The stats are night and day...with a FAR worse line. You seem to think it's O'Brien bringing out his brilliance, while the rest of us see O'Brien holding him back. Case in point - How do you think that big play breakdown since DW4 got here will look? What percentage of those plays went as scripted? What percentage came when DW4 had to improvise?
Nobody else in the O'Brien era has come even remotely close to those numbers...even when you combine the stats of whoever was needed to reach them over 16 games.
What does "who literally nothing well" mean?
DW4 isn't a perfect QB by any means. Is he head and shoulders above anything the Texans have ever put on the field, other than Schaub in his prime? Yep. Would he do worse in a pure drop-back system? Undoubtedly. Would he perform better with a coach that plays to his strengths without reverting to form (Ex: Ridiculous run % on 1st down vs Tampa)? Here's betting he would.
QB's don't win and lose superbowls on their own. It takes a team to get there and a team to win.
Right now , Watson is perfectly capable if he has the right team surrounding him …. He doesn't have any of the ingredients of a superbowl team around him.
Crap for defense - Front 7 is decent but missing a quality pass rusher - back end is woefully lacking talent other than Reid. Nobody on the defense can cover a TE.
Average to below running game.
Special teams is pretty solid.
Coaching staff is …. utterly worthless.
Where are these ingredients that make up a championship team ? …. Not Here.
RGV82
Random guy
Yeah this goes without say. When guys like Jim McMahon, Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler and Brad Johnson can win a Super Bowl, it is pretty obvious that a good QB is not needed.
They do need pass rush and that's why I would sign Suh. A DL of Watt/Reader/Suh/with Mercilus/Martin soming off of the edge is quite formidable. Gipson was pretty good at covering the TE's but I would also draft my favorite most versatile safety in this class in Rd.2 (Kyle Dugger) I would also trade back into the 2nd and pick the best CB at the Sr. Bowl if he falls to Rd.2 (Using the comp 3rd and Houston's 4th.) Darnay Holmes he's got world class speed and is a good cover guy. He looked great at the Sr. Bowl. They say he had tackling issues at UCLA but the talent is there to work with.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Thank you for one of the best post on here. It takes a team effort starting from the top all the way down.
51-7 sure was a total team collapse
Those guys weren't Bad QB's …. they just weren't great ones. They didn't make a whole lot of mistakes and put their teams in a hole. Few turnovers , few sacks … took what defenses gave them and moved the chains.
You can win with an average QB if you have a great running game and a great defense - its been proven many times.
Watson is at least average ….
RGV82
Random guy
I’m aware of this. I was simply supporting the poster’s comments that QBs don’t win Super Bowls on their own.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
They understood what being a game manager entailed and what their true role was.
They were all below average QB's that no one would have wanted to lead their teams unless when they were stuck with them.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Did you miss the ProBowl's "Threading the Needle" competition.........his lack of "accuracy" was down right embarrassing.
I wonder how many takes the Watson / HEB garbage bag commercial required?
Lol
People dogging Watson for a bad Pro Bowl exercise!
Dude was 6th in completion percentage this year.
6th while trying to run O’Brien’s 3D chess offense that confounds the defense by not getting any receivers open all the while the pocket collapses in the first 2 seconds.
not worried about Deshauns accuracy.
People dogging Watson for a bad Pro Bowl exercise!
Dude was 6th in completion percentage this year.
6th while trying to run O’Brien’s 3D chess offense that confounds the defense by not getting any receivers open all the while the pocket collapses in the first 2 seconds.
not worried about Deshauns accuracy.
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Meh. He curb-stomped the current MVP in the Precision Passing Drill (9-2)...as did BOTH the AFC & NFC non-QBs. Not going to lose sleep over this.
That competition was a joke. They had a cornerback in the middle, so most of the qb's were throwing to the outside. I don't think any of them hit the 5 points circle.Did you miss the ProBowl's "Threading the Needle" competition.........his lack of "accuracy" was down right embarrassing.
I wonder how many takes the Watson / HEB garbage bag commercial required?
Maybe DW4 isn't that good and BOB's coaching helped him improve to this level?
Nah, The Houston Watson's could never except that as a possible outcome.
This isn't taking BOB's side of the argument, he's got plenty to improve on too after 51-7.
I truly believe that O’Brien was able to elevate a few of his QB’s playing abilities.
With Watson though he’s got a stud racehorse and he’s got him tied up at the stables.
banned1976
sleeper mode
Who even watches that nonsense much less bases an argument around it? People who really dislike Watson, I guess.
Even when I was a supporter of O’Brien I understood why so many people disliked him. He has the personality of a boiled lobster. He comes across as better than the fans and media that cover him. But Watson is a likeable guy regardless of how someone may feel about his abilities as an NFL starting QB.
But taking away from a silly competition that has no bearing on anything and criticizing Watson for that, that goes beyond the X’s and O’s. It appears personal and again, I could understand that if Watson was a jerk with a bad attitude. I haven’t heard that about him, though.
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
Did you miss the ProBowl's "Threading the Needle" competition.........his lack of "accuracy" was down right embarrassing.
I wonder how many takes the Watson / HEB garbage bag commercial required?
I'm normally with you CnD (and "kinda" am still with you here, but not completely)...
I wouldn't say it was downright embarrassing he scored 9, and two of the other guys Lamar and the other QB forgot who scored 12 and the highest was Wilson at 16. So he hits one more '3 pointer' and it was a three-way tie, which I think shows the difficulty of the challenge.
Like I said, while I don't consider it downright embarrassing - I think it does show DW's 'almost there' accuracy - e.g. several of the throws hit the yellow highlight stripe, so he almost got it there.
Which is where he needs improvement (if it can be improved). He will hit Hop close enough and Hop will catch it, but it's on his back shoulder when it should have been in front of him and led the receiver, etc. Shows up as a completion, leading to a high completion % but put it on the front shoulder and it would have been a 1st down instead of 3rd and short to go (hypothetical here).
Hopefully, it is a footwork or mechanic issue that can be correct and not just a 'he's as accurate as he'll ever get' (maybe his lazy eyelid?).
I still think you can win with a guy who is 'almost accurate' but you probably have to change your playbook some, maybe more comeback routes where you aren't trying to hit a guy in stride (except on short slants which I think DW does really well, but we don't run it much).
Dunno - how I saw the competition go, and how I currently see DW - just my opinion we all have one.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The only time players go that hard for their coaches & go into those types of responses is when there's true admiration and respect there.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I guess I just see it quite differently. In all of his throws, he only managed to successfully complete THREE throws. (Also, if we were counting/comparing how many yellow borders the other QBs hit, his performance would have been even further diminished.)
I get the feeling, and this is 100% irrespective whatsoever of OB, that Deshaun would go that hard for his geek squad guy..
9. DESHAUN WATSON, HOUSTON TEXANS
Watson continues to light up the highlight reels, but the week-to-week consistency still needs work. For the second straight year, Watson had six games that earned an 80.0-plus grade, and those are the games in which he looks like an MVP candidate capable of carrying a team. However, he also had three games that graded under 50.0, and those games usually involve poor ball security and taking too many sacks. Watson ranked among the league’s best in big-time throws once again, but in order to take the next step as a true MVP candidate, he must cut down on the faults that have plagued him to low game grades in the past. It’s a difficult balance, as Watson’s high-risk, high-reward style pays off more often than not, but it’s still leading to too many games in which his poor play is too much for Houston to overcome.
***
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-best-quarterbacks-ahead-of-super-bowl-liv?utm_source=PFF+Newsletter&utm_campaign=b035d087df-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_01_28_QB_ranks012820&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ae3f4210bf-b035d087df-217063829
***
On top 5 PFF says no. They rank him at #9 in the league right now.
They've got Wilson, Mahomes,Brees, Rogers, & Stafford ahead of him which I buy.
On the other hand I don't see Jackson, Cousins, & Tannehill as superior to Watson while PFF does.
Like PFF say, it's all about his consistency.
Watson continues to light up the highlight reels, but the week-to-week consistency still needs work. For the second straight year, Watson had six games that earned an 80.0-plus grade, and those are the games in which he looks like an MVP candidate capable of carrying a team. However, he also had three games that graded under 50.0, and those games usually involve poor ball security and taking too many sacks. Watson ranked among the league’s best in big-time throws once again, but in order to take the next step as a true MVP candidate, he must cut down on the faults that have plagued him to low game grades in the past. It’s a difficult balance, as Watson’s high-risk, high-reward style pays off more often than not, but it’s still leading to too many games in which his poor play is too much for Houston to overcome.
***
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-best-quarterbacks-ahead-of-super-bowl-liv?utm_source=PFF+Newsletter&utm_campaign=b035d087df-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_01_28_QB_ranks012820&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ae3f4210bf-b035d087df-217063829
***
On top 5 PFF says no. They rank him at #9 in the league right now.
They've got Wilson, Mahomes,Brees, Rogers, & Stafford ahead of him which I buy.
On the other hand I don't see Jackson, Cousins, & Tannehill as superior to Watson while PFF does.
Like PFF say, it's all about his consistency.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
High probability...but i gotta believe that if there was even an inkling of doubt, distrust or whatever, he doesn't go to the lengths he did. Judging from his response, he's clearly aware of how the media and everyone else feels about BoB. Would've been easy for him to just say "no doubt" and leave it at that..but he didn't do that. You also have to package his response with the overall teams'. It's been relatively quiet in that locker room.
The following piece is the best glimpse into Watson's personal mindset I've seen - https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2858342-deshaun-watson-has-no-off-switch
He's not into the blame game. He wants to know what HE can do better to win each game. Casting aspersions at O'Brien (or anyone else for that matter) just isn't in his nature.