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State of the O-line

thunderkyss said:
I think coaching matters. Roby is as athletic as Kevin Johnson. If he can stay healthy, that spot is better.

Body-Calhoun is not an upgrade over Kareem, especially his versatility. But we're so deep at safety Body-Calhoun shouldn't be asked to play safety. As a corner, a slot corner, it's a wash.

Gipson played as well as Mathieu did last year. He just wasn't telling everybody about every play.

RAC has more to work with this season. I th8nk we get back to the shifting fronts & disguised coverages we had when we had a healthy Cushing & 3 good CBs. No more bend but don't break wysiwyg defense.
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I agree that they added a bunch of interesting pieces. The safeties look solid. I don't think they can really replace Matthieu (Crennel really wanted him back) but we'll see.

Corner is obviously a worry as they keep bringing in new ones.

I believe boddy-calhoun was cut.

I really like the Roby addition though.
 
justmy2cents said:
Gaine passes up trade

There were reports in the national media this week the Texans were trying to trade up from their 23rd spot in the first round to get Washington State left tackle Andre Dillard and that they were shopping outside linebacker Jadeveon Clowney. Neither proved to be true.

When it was Baltimore's turn to make the 22nd pick one spot ahead of the Texans, the Ravens traded their draft choice to Philadelphia. The Eagles took Dillard.


It should have been obvious to everyone Gaine wasn't interested in dealing up to get Dillard, or he would have done it. The Eagles traded fourth- and sixth-round choices to get Dillard. Gaine didn't have a fourth-round selection, and he didn't want to part with his third-round pick. He was happy to let the Eagles get Dillard before he took Tytus Howard, who should play tackle with the Texans

I'll, swear, (as a matter of fact, I think I did), that this statement was revised from McClain's first post, in which he said that the Texans turned down an opportunity to give a 5th round to Baltimore to trade up that one spot .... but the next morning, it was replaced by above. I do know that afterwards, I read that the Eagles fans were shocked by the move, because they were honed in on a defensive stud rusher. Anyway, I do know that I would've hurt myself - getting to the phone with a 3rd and/or a 5th in hand !
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He might very well had said that in his first report. Doesn’t make it true and in fact makes it more likely it wasn’t true. Which seems more likely, that he heard something at first, made a post about it, learned it wasn’t true or at least not from a good source and revised the post, or he heard it first, believed it to be true and from a good source, revised the post anyway to protect the Texans.
 
maverick512000 said:
He might very well had said that in his first report. Doesn’t make it true and in fact makes it more likely it wasn’t true. Which seems more likely, that he heard something at first, made a post about it, learned it wasn’t true or at least not from a good source and revised the post, or he heard it first, believed it to be true and from a good source, revised the post anyway to protect the Texans.
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I didn't type those words ... they were transferred from a story in the Chronicle for ThuunderKyss to read .... because he said he couldn't read the first link that I posted and had made clinkable. I was falling asleep when I saw the first request. He had said something like .... "someone on here, keeps saying that they had seen it in the newspaper, or somewhere, but he never saw any proof of it. So, I reawakened, googled several phrases .... until I found the one that I had posted. I copied and posted the article. I thought that would resolve the issue of (someone, somewhere, sometime, somehow). It was simply an honest effort to help others find the answer to a question that was plaguing them. This morning when I checked, others had liked or quoted it. Neither from TK. You and he seem to be having a devil of a time believing it's genuine. It's genuinely in the damn paper .... there are copies of it on this board .... at this moment. Whether it is true or not is up to the discretion of the reader.
I have watched Bill O'Brien and his approach to football and his manner of team building. Among the copious amounts of information that I research and digest, I see the lists of collegiate prospects that, in one way or another, O'Brien is interested in .... watching some closely, interviewing some, making some of them official preseason invitees. I could actually believe that O'Brien and Gaine, valued Tytus Howard as much or more than Andre Dillard. I can also believe that he drafted Howard a round too early as well Max Scharping. It's called a knee jerk response .... made to cover ones a$$, when they realize they've sh!t their nest .... again ! At some point, these errors upon errors catch up to them. They realize they are about to be publicly humiliated .... by being fired. It is not the loss of money that they fear .... they've got plenty. It is the thought of public .. humiliation that frightens them to death .... after all, everyone thinks of them as "the smartest guy in the room"! They can't bear to face that, so they mortgage the farm, to get the talent that others have amassed ... providing they have a forgiving General Manager. Most of us here, love and look forward to the annual NFL Draft.Some of us make it a hobby. Others find it a burden or a distraction. Some dread it so much, they try to avoid it. If it is in their job description, and they hate, dread, even fear it, they will try to avoid it. Some of those folks are lucky, in so much as, they could actually hire a "Director of Player Personnel" if they are blessed with a sympathetic GM ! "Alas .... conscience doth make cowards of us all" .... Hamlet .... by Slick Willie !
 
justmy2cents said:
I didn't type those words ... they were transferred from a story in the Chronicle for ThuunderKyss to read .... because he said he couldn't read the first link that I posted and had made clinkable. I was falling asleep when I saw the first request. He had said something like .... "someone on here, keeps saying that they had seen it in the newspaper, or somewhere, but he never saw any proof of it. So, I reawakened, googled several phrases .... until I found the one that I had posted. I copied and posted the article. I thought that would resolve the issue of (someone, somewhere, sometime, somehow). It was simply an honest effort to help others find the answer to a question that was plaguing them. This morning when I checked, others had liked or quoted it. Neither from TK. You and he seem to be having a devil of a time believing it's genuine. It's genuinely in the damn paper .... there are copies of it on this board .... at this moment. Whether it is true or not is up to the discretion of the reader.
I have watched Bill O'Brien and his approach to football and his manner of team building. Among the copious amounts of information that I research and digest, I see the lists of collegiate prospects that, in one way or another, O'Brien is interested in .... watching some closely, interviewing some, making some of them official preseason invitees. I could actually believe that O'Brien and Gaine, valued Tytus Howard as much or more than Andre Dillard. I can also believe that he drafted Howard a round too early as well Max Scharping. It's called a knee jerk response .... made to cover ones a$$, when they realize they've sh!t their nest .... again ! At some point, these errors upon errors catch up to them. They realize they are about to be publicly humiliated .... by being fired. It is not the loss of money that they fear .... they've got plenty. It is the thought of public .. humiliation that frightens them to death .... after all, everyone thinks of them as "the smartest guy in the room"! They can't bear to face that, so they mortgage the farm, to get the talent that others have amassed ... providing they have a forgiving General Manager. Most of us here, love and look forward to the annual NFL Draft.Some of us make it a hobby. Others find it a burden or a distraction. Some dread it so much, they try to avoid it. If it is in their job description, and they hate, dread, even fear it, they will try to avoid it. Some of those folks are lucky, in so much as, they could actually hire a "Director of Player Personnel" if they are blessed with a sympathetic GM ! "Alas .... conscience doth make cowards of us all" .... Hamlet .... by Slick Willie !
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Slow your roll there brother. The part about him possibly saying that was in response to where you said

"I'll, swear, (as a matter of fact, I think I did), that this statement was revised from McClain's first post, in which he said that the Texans turned down an opportunity to give a 5th round to Baltimore to trade up that one spot .... but the next morning, it was replaced by above."

I know that McClain said that Gaine wasn't interested, and no one is arguing that he didn't say that. What people, I guess in particular TK and I, want to know other than what basically amounts to a throw away comment by one reporter what else has been reported or, even better, confirmed. As far as the draft goes I've said all along I didn't want Howard in the first and, while I don't hate the pick, I think we could have gotten him early second.

As for the rest of the post, I'm not going to address it because, frankly, I think you were either drunk or almost asleep when you made it because its an incoherent, wall of text rant about something that has nothing to do with anything, anybody posted.
 
maverick512000 said:
Slow your roll there brother. The part about him possibly saying that was in response to where you said

"I'll, swear, (as a matter of fact, I think I did), that this statement was revised from McClain's first post, in which he said that the Texans turned down an opportunity to give a 5th round to Baltimore to trade up that one spot .... but the next morning, it was replaced by above."

I know that McClain said that Gaine wasn't interested, and no one is arguing that he didn't say that. What people, I guess in particular TK and I, want to know other than what basically amounts to a throw away comment by one reporter what else has been reported or, even better, confirmed. As far as the draft goes I've said all along I didn't want Howard in the first and, while I don't hate the pick, I think we could have gotten him early second.

As for the rest of the post, I'm not going to address it because, frankly, I think you were either drunk or almost asleep when you made it because its an incoherent, wall of text rant about something that has nothing to do with anything, anybody posted.
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A thousand pardons Maverick. I misinterpreted the very first "he" ! I thought that "he" - was in reference to me. I still can't tell whether you meant McClain or O'Brien .... but that it is of no consequence to me .... I would guess that both of them are guilty of bending the truth to suit their designs. I am opinionated when it comes to the Texans, but they are literally the only game in town. BTW, I wasn't drunk .... haven't had a beer in 35 years .... still miss it. That second paragraph was a bit of a rant .... but for anyone who disapproves of the management of this team, there was a lot of truth it contained a lot of truth. Again Maverick, I apologize for the mistake.
 
justmy2cents said:
I didn't type those words ... they were transferred from a story in the Chronicle for ThuunderKyss to read .... because he said he couldn't read the first link that I posted and had made clinkable. I was falling asleep when I saw the first request. He had said something like .... "someone on here, keeps saying that they had seen it in the newspaper, or somewhere, but he never saw any proof of it. So, I reawakened, googled several phrases .... until I found the one that I had posted. I copied and posted the article. I thought that would resolve the issue of (someone, somewhere, sometime, somehow). It was simply an honest effort to help others find the answer to a question that was plaguing them. This morning when I checked, others had liked or quoted it. Neither from TK. You and he seem to be having a devil of a time believing it's genuine. It's genuinely in the damn paper .... there are copies of it on this board .... at this moment. Whether it is true or not is up to the discretion of the reader.
I have watched Bill O'Brien and his approach to football and his manner of team building. Among the copious amounts of information that I research and digest, I see the lists of collegiate prospects that, in one way or another, O'Brien is interested in .... watching some closely, interviewing some, making some of them official preseason invitees. I could actually believe that O'Brien and Gaine, valued Tytus Howard as much or more than Andre Dillard. I can also believe that he drafted Howard a round too early as well Max Scharping. It's called a knee jerk response .... made to cover ones a$$, when they realize they've sh!t their nest .... again ! At some point, these errors upon errors catch up to them. They realize they are about to be publicly humiliated .... by being fired. It is not the loss of money that they fear .... they've got plenty. It is the thought of public .. humiliation that frightens them to death .... after all, everyone thinks of them as "the smartest guy in the room"! They can't bear to face that, so they mortgage the farm, to get the talent that others have amassed ... providing they have a forgiving General Manager. Most of us here, love and look forward to the annual NFL Draft.Some of us make it a hobby. Others find it a burden or a distraction. Some dread it so much, they try to avoid it. If it is in their job description, and they hate, dread, even fear it, they will try to avoid it. Some of those folks are lucky, in so much as, they could actually hire a "Director of Player Personnel" if they are blessed with a sympathetic GM ! "Alas .... conscience doth make cowards of us all" .... Hamlet .... by Slick Willie !
Click to expand...

The main reason they overpay or reach for guys is....they have a hole and those dudes just happen to be available. That's it.

We want to think that O'Brien closely watched film and scouted Tunsil and determined there's something special there.

But the truth is Tunsil was the only young, solid LT available.
 
justmy2cents said:
A thousand pardons Maverick. I misinterpreted the very first "he" ! I thought that "he" - was in reference to me. I still can't tell whether you meant McClain or O'Brien .... but that it is of no consequence to me .... I would guess that both of them are guilty of bending the truth to suit their designs. I am opinionated when it comes to the Texans, but they are literally the only game in town. BTW, I wasn't drunk .... haven't had a beer in 35 years .... still miss it. That second paragraph was a bit of a rant .... but for anyone who disapproves of the management of this team, there was a lot of truth it contained a lot of truth. Again Maverick, I apologize for the mistake.
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No worries bro, its all good and I didn't take anything personal. Sorry about assuming you had a few, I rarely drink anything myself and find I don't miss it to much. Lots of strange and unique non-acholic drinks they are making now keep me interested enough to try new things.

To clarify I think McClain heard from somebody that Gaine or Bob or whoever was offered the chance to take Dillard but passed and, in order to get the scoop, rushed to post it. Later he found out that it wasn't as reliable as he first thought and realized that it could put him in the dog house with the Texans and his readers. So he changed it hoping no one would really notice. Or I could be doing him a disservice and he typed it up, posted, went back and reread it, realized how it could sound or that it wasn't saying what he wanted it to and edited it.

And yeah I firmly believe everyone has an agenda. If McClain was told by the Texans "We are going to give you all the inside scoops but we want you to be team friendly" I think he'd take it. Likewise if O'Brien was told by reporters 'We are going to spin it in the best light possible but we want you to do more press conferences and interviews." I think he'd take that to. Can't say I blame either of them but its why nothing should be take as gospel truth.
 
TheKDog said:
The main reason they overpay or reach for guys is....they have a hole and those dudes just happen to be available. That's it.

We want to think that O'Brien closely watched film and scouted Tunsil and determined there's something special there.

But the truth is Tunsil was the only young, solid LT available.
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I agree with this, Kalil was so bad even BoB and Devlin knew that he was a broken QB waiting to happen. I think they wanted Williams, and maybe hoped to send Clowney that way, but Washington isn't dealing or is asking for something so outrageous even the Texans bulked. As bad as our F/O looks at times theirs is a dumpster fire in the middle of a refinery. I will not be surprised if they don't let Williams sit just to be spiteful.
 
maverick512000 said:
I agree with this, Kalil was so bad even BoB and Devlin knew that he was a broken QB waiting to happen. I think they wanted Williams, and maybe hoped to send Clowney that way, but Washington isn't dealing or is asking for something so outrageous even the Texans bulked. As bad as our F/O looks at times theirs is a dumpster fire in the middle of a refinery. I will not be surprised if they don't let Williams sit just to be spiteful.
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It reminds me of Osweiler. Whoever you think is ultimately to blame for that one, the reason the Texans signed him is because he was the only "proven" QB available.
 
TheKDog said:
It reminds me of Osweiler. Whoever you think is ultimately to blame for that one, the reason the Texans signed him is because he was the only "proven" QB available.
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Exactly, I think Smith picked Osweiler, because you know BoB's QB choices had worked out so well, but it was a damned if you do, damned if you don't. They couldn't roll into the season with Hoyer again but we were so far down the draft line we had no chance at leaping up high enough to grab I think it was Wentz or Geoff (?) in that draft. Only two QBs that had any hope of being franchise guys on F/A was Osweiler and Carr. No way in hell we were taking another Carr so Osweiler was it. Difference was we only had to overpay him and not another team. In this case we had to pay another team. So yeah Tunsil is BoB's Osweiler, lets hope it works out better.
 
TheKDog said:
The main reason they overpay or reach for guys is....they have a hole and those dudes just happen to be available. That's it.

We want to think that O'Brien closely watched film and scouted Tunsil and determined there's something special there.

But the truth is Tunsil was the only young, solid LT available.
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I heard Wade Smith say that he thought there were only 2 tackles in football, better than Tunsil .... Tyron Smith and Trent Williams .... and how much could we have gotten Williams for ? Maybe ruin just ONE draft ?
 
TheKDog said:
The main reason they overpay or reach for guys is....they have a hole and those dudes just happen to be available. That's it.

We want to think that O'Brien closely watched film and scouted Tunsil and determined there's something special there.

But the truth is Tunsil was the only young, solid LT available.
Click to expand...


I heard Wade Smith say that he thought there were only 2 tackles in football, better than Tunsil .... Tyron Smith and Trent Williams .... and how much could we have gotten Williams for ? Maybe ruin just ONE draft ?
 
justmy2cents said:
I heard Wade Smith say that he thought there were only 2 tackles in football, better than Tunsil .... Tyron Smith and Trent Williams .... and how much could we have gotten Williams for ? Maybe ruin just ONE draft ?
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Perhaps. And then Dillard was even cheaper, keeping brown Brown would have been cheaper, etc

Another thing is mant say in today's NFL that RT is just as important. Well Seantrel sucks.
 
justmy2cents said:
I heard Wade Smith say that he thought there were only 2 tackles in football, better than Tunsil .... Tyron Smith and Trent Williams .... and how much could we have gotten Williams for ? Maybe ruin just ONE draft ?
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As a disclaimer, we gave up too much for Tunsil and Stills.

That being said, Trent Williams is on the back nine of his career at age 31 and has only started 16 games twice in nine years. The last four seasons he has missed, two, four, six, and three games, respectively, with various injuries. He is very, very good, but is a descending player.

Tunsil is not as good as Williams right now (and maybe never), but he is 25 and an ascending player that can (barring health and contract concerns) start for the next 10 years.

Two firsts and a second is way too much, but at this point theres nothing to be done about that. Tunsil, however, does give us more upside than Williams can IMO.
 
justmy2cents said:
I heard Wade Smith say that he thought there were only 2 tackles in football, better than Tunsil .... Tyron Smith and Trent Williams .... and how much could we have gotten Williams for ? Maybe ruin just ONE draft ?
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I don't think Washington is serious about trading him. If they were then forget the Texans why hasn't some other team snatched him up? We just look at our team but the fact is there are 30 other teams, some with great GMs, that haven't cut a deal for Williams either. I think Washington is either not offering or they are demanding so much that even Williams isn't worth it. Texans were clearly willing to pay big for a LT and realistically I don't anybody believes that they didn't at least inquire about Williams. I keep saying it but Washington doesn't do business like other teams do, they would rather screw themselves over than have it seem like any player got the best of them.
 
frethack said:
As a disclaimer, we gave up too much for Tunsil and Stills.

That being said, Trent Williams is on the back nine of his career at age 31 and has only started 16 games twice in nine years. The last four seasons he has missed, two, four, six, and three games, respectively, with various injuries. He is very, very good, but is a descending player.

Tunsil is not as good as Williams right now (and maybe never), but he is 25 and an ascending player that can (barring health and contract concerns) start for the next 10 years.

Two firsts and a second is way too much, but at this point theres nothing to be done about that. Tunsil, however, does give us more upside than Williams can IMO.[/QUOTE]



No doubt about this .... but 2 firsts and a second ?? That is a killer ! I suppose that O'Brien is planning on moving Howard or Scharping to right tackle .... which creates another hole. I can't express how imperative it is for O'Brien to bring in the best personnel man on this planet.
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TheKDog said:
Yea they now see Howard as the RT of the future
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Then you're scrambling for a LG. You know that Duke Johnson and Ken Stills were both 3rd string .... and Stills is an avid Political Activist .... he will not honor the symbol of our country before the games .... hope that works out !
 
After the trade was announced for Tunsil I had a toss and turn night of thinking "what if we could still get Trent Williams on a reasonable trade?" Of course I did not post as would get laughed off MB. Today, headed to a friend's radio 610 mentioned just that. I believe Seth Payne said he would play TWill at LT, Tunsil LG to keep similar footwork and play Howard RT. Howard started all 10 games 2018 at RT and all 11 starts at LT in 2017.

I know our first are gone but the makings of many trade offerings for Williams here are still available with our 2020 second, our own third + Seattle third for JD and a possible third if Duke doesn't meet his requirements. I also know folks are gonna scream A) Washington isn't trading him and B) Texans cannot afford him.

A) TWill per all sources including some reportedly in his "camp" insist he will never report. Does GM Bruce Allen at some point pull trigger? Does he see fiasco of headstrong do it my way Bill O"Brien's handling of Clowney (Yes, the details are different but obstinance is same) and decide to not go that direction? Plus Williams has received approx $100 million prior to 2019 and I can see him sitting out until he gets what he wants. Sure, Allen can hold firm but as this standoff progresses what does he actually gain? If he wants to be vindictive, he can but as terminating an offense as OBrien did with CLowney, he did get something.

B) as of today Texans have about $28 million in cap space and could free up another $ 7 m cutting Mingo and Kekemete. 2020 $70 million. No problem extending Mercilus or Watson. Still able to throw a few million during each season to DHop and Watt. Tunsil can get a roster bonus of sa 7-8 million for 2019 and an LTD.

TWill's base (in his pocket) 2019 is $11 and 2019 $12. A $10 m signing bonus puts him right in with big boys without any LTD incentives which could also be his. He has to see his future and probably health greatly improves on our new roster as a much great opportunity to get to Super Bowl.
 
Reid was asked what he knew about offensive lineman Martinas Rankin, whom the Chiefs acquired when they traded Carlos Hyde to the Houston Texans on Saturday. “I know when he came out that he has good feet,” he said. ”He’s a good pass protector. He was in college and he carried that part over into the NFL. There’s some of his game that he has to work on and get better at, but he’s a young guy and [offensive line coach] Andy [Heck] really liked him when he came out. As did our scouts, so I think it’s a good fit for him."

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2019...eting-expectations-and-more-in-monday-presser
 
justmy2cents said:
This morning when I checked, others had liked or quoted it. Neither from TK. You and he seem to be having a devil of a time believing it's genuine. It's genuinely in the damn paper ....
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You posted an article that says reports of Texans trading up to get Dillard were "proven to be false" then say it said something totally different. & you wonder why I'm having a devil of a time believing it.

Our first & our third held more value than the picks the Eagles used to move up four spots. It makes sense the Ravens would have accepted our first & third and drop only one spot.

So yes, I believe if the Texans wanted to move up one spot they could have given the Ravens a lot more than the Eagles gave them to move up four.

I don't know that I would have initiated that trade with the Ravens. Why would I? The Ravens are looking for a WR.

If the Eagles called the Ravens, suggested a deal, sure I'd expect the Ravens to shop it, see if the could get better.

But what if the Eagles waited 7 minutes into the time to pitch their offer? What if the Eagles flat out told them, "Take it or leave it. You have 30 seconds to respond."

So to say the Texans could have traded up for a 3rd round pick may be accurate, it could have happened. It doesn't mean the Texans were ever in any discussion with the Ravens concerning their 22nd overall pick.
 
thunderkyss said:
You posted an article that says reports of Texans trading up to get Dillard were "proven to be false" then say it said something totally different. & you wonder why I'm having a devil of a time believing it.

Our first & our third held more value than the picks the Eagles used to move up four spots. It makes sense the Ravens would have accepted our first & third and drop only one spot.

So yes, I believe if the Texans wanted to move up one spot they could have given the Ravens a lot more than the Eagles gave them to move up four.

I don't know that I would have initiated that trade with the Ravens. Why would I? The Ravens are looking for a WR.

If the Eagles called the Ravens, suggested a deal, sure I'd expect the Ravens to shop it, see if the could get better.

But what if the Eagles waited 7 minutes into the time to pitch their offer? What if the Eagles flat out told them, "Take it or leave it. You have 30 seconds to respond."

So to say the Texans could have traded up for a 3rd round pick may be accurate, it could have happened. It doesn't mean the Texans were ever in any discussion with the Ravens concerning their 22nd overall pick.
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Whatever happened .... it's all irrelevant now. Seriously, 99% of my frustration comes from your final sentence. O'Brien sees no problem with the way he is running this organization. All the other things fade away to nothing .... they all become water under the bridge .... and we are left with O'Brien .... the smartest guy in the room !
 
thunderkyss said:
You posted an article that says reports of Texans trading up to get Dillard were "proven to be false" then say it said something totally different. & you wonder why I'm having a devil of a time believing it.

Our first & our third held more value than the picks the Eagles used to move up four spots. It makes sense the Ravens would have accepted our first & third and drop only one spot.

So yes, I believe if the Texans wanted to move up one spot they could have given the Ravens a lot more than the Eagles gave them to move up four.

I don't know that I would have initiated that trade with the Ravens. Why would I? The Ravens are looking for a WR.

If the Eagles called the Ravens, suggested a deal, sure I'd expect the Ravens to shop it, see if the could get better.

But what if the Eagles waited 7 minutes into the time to pitch their offer? What if the Eagles flat out told them, "Take it or leave it. You have 30 seconds to respond."

So to say the Texans could have traded up for a 3rd round pick may be accurate, it could have happened. It doesn't mean the Texans were ever in any discussion with the Ravens concerning their 22nd overall pick.
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What we do know is Gaine is no longer gm and BOB made the Tunsil trade. I think that speaks volumes
 
thunderkyss said:
You posted an article that says reports of Texans trading up to get Dillard were "proven to be false" then say it said something totally different. & you wonder why I'm having a devil of a time believing it.

Our first & our third held more value than the picks the Eagles used to move up four spots. It makes sense the Ravens would have accepted our first & third and drop only one spot.

So yes, I believe if the Texans wanted to move up one spot they could have given the Ravens a lot more than the Eagles gave them to move up four.

I don't know that I would have initiated that trade with the Ravens. Why would I? The Ravens are looking for a WR.

If the Eagles called the Ravens, suggested a deal, sure I'd expect the Ravens to shop it, see if the could get better.

But what if the Eagles waited 7 minutes into the time to pitch their offer? What if the Eagles flat out told them, "Take it or leave it. You have 30 seconds to respond."

So to say the Texans could have traded up for a 3rd round pick may be accurate, it could have happened. It doesn't mean the Texans were ever in any discussion with the Ravens concerning their 22nd overall pick.
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What we do know is Gaine is no longer gm and BOB made the Tunsil trade. I think that speaks volumes.
 
A Thought .... Cletus or Cal .... it is possible that (He) actually does believe that O'Brien is the smartest guy in the room .... and that the Dillard blunder was on Gaine and that O'Brien has once again saved the world from oblivion !
 
justmy2cents said:
O'Brien sees no problem with the way he is running this organization.
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In this we agree. I think my position on BO'b is well understood here. Me, Bill O'Brien, dark alley... only one of us is walking out alive.

At the end of January we all knew we needed to upgrade the OL & the secondary. We knew we can't go into another season expecting F5 to be healthy all year. & most of us wanted something done about RB.

Since then we've also learned that QT is not very dependable either.

Everything has been addressed & mostly in a big way. I know most don't like the way it was done. I don't.

But I'm happy with the 53. First time in a long time.
 
TheKDog said:
I think gaine told him these trades were freaking stupid and OBrien went and told on him to Cletus.

Cletus is too dumb to know better
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:facepalm:

So Gaine told BoB that the trade for Tunsil and such was stupid and so that's why BoB got him fired? Just in the other thread you were saying that Tunsil was a last minute panic move for the only guy available. So what when Gaine was here he told BoB this was stupid so BoB got him fired but then BoB forgot about the trades that he got Giane fired over until the last minute so then he had to rush to do it? Dude you have been spouting so much blind hate you have started to contradict yourself. Next you'll be talking about how the Texans ruining David Carr was part of BoB's long term plan for power.
 
justmy2cents said:
A Thought .... Cletus or Cal .... it is possible that (He) actually does believe that O'Brien is the smartest guy in the room .... and that the Dillard blunder was on Gaine and that O'Brien has once again saved the world from oblivion !
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That's assuming you believe that Dillard was a blunder. I don't think it was, I think Dillard would have been a bust on this team. Dillard is missing basic tackle fundamentals, he has pretty much never run blocked in his life and day 1 of an NFL game is not the place to learn. Add to that it would be Devlin teaching him and you have the perfect recipe for a major bust no matter how gifted he maybe. Dillard will do well on the Eagles, he can sit behind and learn from Peters, have a good Oline coach and in a year or two he is the heir to the position when Peters finally pulls the trigger on his retirement.

Howard may not be as naturally gifted but he also has less of a learning curve. His main thing is adjusting to NFL speed and strength and that's something that he can actually learn better from us than on the Eagles. Not because of Devlin, God no, but because of Watt. Let him line up across from, arguably, the best to ever do it and learn to block him. If he can block Watt, I know I laughed to, there is literally no one in the NFL he can't block.

On paper all things being equal Dillard might be better than Howard. In reality once you have context Howard was the better choice for the Texans.
 
maverick512000 said:
:facepalm:

So Gaine told BoB that the trade for Tunsil and such was stupid and so that's why BoB got him fired? Just in the other thread you were saying that Tunsil was a last minute panic move for the only guy available. So what when Gaine was here he told BoB this was stupid so BoB got him fired but then BoB forgot about the trades that he got Giane fired over until the last minute so then he had to rush to do it? Dude you have been spouting so much blind hate you have started to contradict yourself. Next you'll be talking about how the Texans ruining David Carr was part of BoB's long term plan for power.
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I think both gaine and Smith gave him pushback in terms of overpaying for trades.

That's why obrien complained "I only coach who is given to me" and says "sometimes you gotta give up more to get what you want"

I mean both Rick and gaine were willing to trade picks sometimes for obrien (jaelen strong, demaryus Thomas) but once obrien became gm is when all hell breaks loose.

So yeah I think they disagreed and obrien went to Cletus to get them fired.

And Cletus is absolutely terrified of being the face of the franchise. He wants to hide in the corner as much as possible
 
maverick512000 said:
That's assuming you believe that Dillard was a blunder. I don't think it was, I think Dillard would have been a bust on this team. Dillard is missing basic tackle fundamentals, he has pretty much never run blocked in his life and day 1 of an NFL game is not the place to learn. Add to that it would be Devlin teaching him and you have the perfect recipe for a major bust no matter how gifted he maybe. Dillard will do well on the Eagles, he can sit behind and learn from Peters, have a good Oline coach and in a year or two he is the heir to the position when Peters finally pulls the trigger on his retirement.

Howard may not be as naturally gifted but he also has less of a learning curve. His main thing is adjusting to NFL speed and strength and that's something that he can actually learn better from us than on the Eagles. Not because of Devlin, God no, but because of Watt. Let him line up across from, arguably, the best to ever do it and learn to block him. If he can block Watt, I know I laughed to, there is literally no one in the NFL he can't block.

On paper all things being equal Dillard might be better than Howard. In reality once you have context Howard was the better choice for the Texans.
Click to expand...

Howard over Dillard is a joke. Tunsil also can't run block
 
justmy2cents said:
A Thought .... Cletus or Cal .... it is possible that (He) actually does believe that O'Brien is the smartest guy in the room .... and that the Dillard blunder was on Gaine and that O'Brien has once again saved the world from oblivion !
Click to expand...

Dillard most likely wouldn't have worked out the way you think he would. Great athlete & all that... but think about it.

Who was the last rookie that played well at LT & is still playing well today?

When has BO'b & Devlin developed anyone on the OL?

Laremy Tunsil was drafted 13th overall. Was supposed to be #1 overall. Miami.... Miami didn't think he was ready to start at LT so they played him at Guard.

Dillard may very well have been better than Davenport, Kalil, & Rod Johnson. But he is not in the same league as Tunsil is right now.

Tunsil is better than Dillard this year & next.

The cost to get him was out of whack. The cost to retain him will be insane.

But he is better than any of us thought we could possibly get in April.
 
maverick512000 said:
So Gaine told BoB that the trade for Tunsil and such was stupid and so that's why BoB got him fired?
Click to expand...

We speculated here that BG thought talking to Washington about getting Williams was futile & "cost prohibitive" & that was the reason he got fired. Too weak for Cal & BO'b.

I thought that was crazy talk at the time. Now, not so much.
 
TheKDog said:
Howard over Dillard is a joke. Tunsil also can't run block
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Based on what, a few pre-season games where both showed they are rookies? If you are basing it on the combine scores go look those up, there is literally a .04 difference between them. If you basing it on college play, well college isn't the NFL and CnD wrote a very good post about how the system Dillard was in is pretty much the worst system for someone going into an NFL system. Fact is neither has played a single snap of a real game and Dillard most likely won't even play this year unless Peters gets hurt so you are basing it on nothing but your bias.
 
thunderkyss said:
We speculated here that BG thought talking to Washington about getting Williams was futile & "cost prohibitive" & that was the reason he got fired. Too weak for Cal & BO'b.

I thought that was crazy talk at the time. Now, not so much.
Click to expand...

There is actually some evidence to support this. Under Gaine the Texans spent less than any other year previously. Before they had spend rough 95-97 of their cap each year. Under Gaine they spent about 90 and Gaine was very outspoken about how he thought the draft was the way to build a team. Also honey badger walked because no one would talk to him about money during the season, I wasn't that sorry to see him go but it is the reason, and not even getting into the whole Clowney situation which was a cluster F long before BoB made the boneheaded trade to Settle.
 
maverick512000 said:
Based on what, a few pre-season games where both showed they are rookies? If you are basing it on the combine scores go look those up, there is literally a .04 difference between them. If you basing it on college play, well college isn't the NFL and CnD wrote a very good post about how the system Dillard was in is pretty much the worst system for someone going into an NFL system. Fact is neither has played a single snap of a real game and Dillard most likely won't even play this year unless Peters gets hurt so you are basing it on nothing but your bias.
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Based on consensus scouting reports. It's not bias, it's what was read. Can Tytus end up better? Yes. But he's not the better prospect objectively speaking.

I mean OBrien already has moved him to guard, so...
 
TheKDog said:
Based on consensus scouting reports. It's not bias, it's what was read. Can Tytus end up better? Yes. But he's not the better prospect objectively speaking.

I mean OBrien already has moved him to guard, so...
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You keep repeating this as though its a knock on Howard. Lots of tackles start in the NFL as guards, hell Tunsil did, and Dillard won't even play this season so....

Also yeah the scouts did report Dillard as better , but also the scouts don't go to smaller schools or study them like they do the D1 schools. Plus we only saw like ESPN scout reports, not the actual team scout reports and all the teams seem to think very highly of him. Now all that being said no I wouldn't have taken him in the first but then I wouldn't have taken Dillard either. I don't think Dillard was worth a first round but he happen to be in a draft that was very light on quality tackles and very heavy on teams that needed them so that upped his value. Even still he fell all the way to 22 and might have fallen further if Eagles hadn't jumped. Its also to me very telling that the team that valued him the most is a team that was drafting him for depth and not to be a day 1 starter.

Dillard is a great 1-2 year project that will be Eagles answer for the next 10 years. Howard is a decent day 1 starter that could have filled a hole that Texans had today and maybe an answer for the next 10 years. Both were drafted where they will fit in best.
 
maverick512000 said:
You keep repeating this as though its a knock on Howard. Lots of tackles start in the NFL as guards, hell Tunsil did, and Dillard won't even play this season so....

Also yeah the scouts did report Dillard as better , but also the scouts don't go to smaller schools or study them like they do the D1 schools. Plus we only saw like ESPN scout reports, not the actual team scout reports and all the teams seem to think very highly of him. Now all that being said no I wouldn't have taken him in the first but then I wouldn't have taken Dillard either. I don't think Dillard was worth a first round but he happen to be in a draft that was very light on quality tackles and very heavy on teams that needed them so that upped his value. Even still he fell all the way to 22 and might have fallen further if Eagles hadn't jumped. Its also to me very telling that the team that valued him the most is a team that was drafting him for depth and not to be a day 1 starter.

Dillard is a great 1-2 year project that will be Eagles answer for the next 10 years. Howard is a decent day 1 starter that could have filled a hole that Texans had today and maybe an answer for the next 10 years. Both were drafted where they will fit in best.
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Everything you wrote makes it clear Dillard was the much better pick.
 
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