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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

JB said:
Actually by 3 PM local time we will only know that he will not be signed to a multi-year deal this year
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I could be/probably am wrong, but I believe his time with the Texans will be over.
Seems to be a trend starting that unsigned players won't play. idonno:

:coffee:
 
JB said:
Last year they paid him $1M to split the difference... I'm sure this year they would replicate if Clowney would sign and show
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Pretty sure they publicly said they'd split when they tagged him.

He won't get pure DE.

He wasn't tendered @ LB anyway. He was tendered @ 20% more than last season. At $15.97 that is $1.15 less than franchise DE ($534k more than LB). Now we know reporters never make mistakes, but this one did.
 
infantrycak said:
Pretty sure they publicly said they'd split when they tagged him.

He won't get pure DE.

He wasn't tendered @ LB anyway. He was tendered @ 20% more than last season. At $15.97 that is $1.15 less than franchise DE ($534k more than LB). Now we know reporters never make mistakes, but this one did.
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I see what you did there
 
Well he missed the deadline there. On purpose. He will either sit out for 2019 or get a long term deal for Texans. Which is very doubtful and cost the GM Brian Gaine his job.
 
JPPT1974 said:
Well he missed the deadline there. On purpose. He will either sit out for 2019 or get a long term deal for Texans. Which is very doubtful and cost the GM Brian Gaine his job.
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I thought he was gonna sign it right before the first game?
 
JPPT1974 said:
Well he missed the deadline there. On purpose. He will either sit out for 2019 or get a long term deal for Texans. Which is very doubtful and cost the GM Brian Gaine his job.
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He missed the deadline for a long term deal. He can sign the one year franchise tenure whenever he wants too, but most players usually wait until week 1 to sign it.
 
infantrycak said:
Pretty sure they publicly said they'd split when they tagged him.

He won't get pure DE.

He wasn't tendered @ LB anyway. He was tendered @ 20% more than last season. At $15.97 that is $1.15 less than franchise DE ($534k more than LB). Now we know reporters never make mistakes, but this one did.
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Don't the Texans have to pay him according to which position he played the most snaps at, regardless of designation? There is no DE/LB category. It's either one or the other.
 
NFLPA and Clowney were probably just waiting to see if the Texans would put on their big boy pants. When it became evident they didn’t know what to do ie.. realistic framework of a long term deal - going back to the “low” offer from last year and all the gossip escaping that compound JD probably said fk em. He’s obviously trying to get his 1 big deal so it shouldn’t be a surprise to start seeing him fight and claw for every red cent. Simple positional snap breakdown answers this debate and it’s offensive the Texans would think otherwise.
 
Uncle Rico said:
NFLPA and Clowney were probably just waiting to see if the Texans would put on their big boy pants. When it became evident they didn’t know what to do ie.. realistic framework of a long term deal - going back to the “low” offer from last year and all the gossip escaping that compound JD probably said fk em. He’s obviously trying to get his 1 big deal so it shouldn’t be a surprise to start seeing him fight and claw for every red cent. Simple positional snap breakdown answers this debate and it’s offensive the Texans would think otherwise.
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You know none of us have the vaguest notion on what JD is willing to accept on a l-t deal and/or how high the Texans are willing to go on said deal ?
 
DocBar said:
Don't the Texans have to pay him according to which position he played the most snaps at, regardless of designation? There is no DE/LB category. It's either one or the other.
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Every time it has come up it has been split according to play time at each. But as I said, the Texans did not tag based on either position. They tagged a 20% increase on the agreed compromise from last season.
 
IDEXAN said:
You know none of us have the vaguest notion on what JD is willing to accept on a l-t deal and/or how high the Texans are willing to go on said deal ?
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Can you use deductive reasoning? Establish a ceiling (Mack) and establish a floor (Frank Clark) and then negotiate from there - truth is if the Texans offered something reputable they would want the world to see it and move all leverage in their favor and put the pressure on Clowney, but that hasnt been the case either. Cecil Shorts reported last season that Clowney received what he considered 'low' offer for a long term deal (maybe closer to the Grady Jarrett type deal?). Texans are just toying with JD. The market is what the market is, not what the Texans would like it to be. Then they want to be petty over a LB vs DE designation to the tune of what 2Ms at the most? For the team who has the most cap space left? Laughable. Even more so when you see that JD lined up as a DE for 700 snaps, and a LB for 30.

Front office for my favorite team sucks.

Oh yeah and didnt every NFL team just take a nice cut in the 7 BILLION profit share of the NFL, something like 250Ms per team??? Yeah stick it to 'em JD.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Can you use deductive reasoning? Establish a ceiling (Mack) and establish a floor (Frank Clark) and then negotiate from there - truth is if the Texans offered something reputable they would want the world to see it and move all leverage in their favor and put the pressure on Clowney, but that hasnt been the case either. Cecil Shorts reported last season that Clowney received what he considered 'low' offer for a long term deal (maybe closer to the Grady Jarrett type deal?).
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$17 mil per year is just shy of DE franchise tag and not lowball by any means.

Then they want to be petty over a LB vs DE designation to the tune of what 2Ms at the most? For the team who has the most cap space left? Laughable.
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Indy made him an offer? THEY DID NOT TAG @ LB.

Even more so when you see that JD lined up as a DE for 700 snaps, and a LB for 30.
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Clearly didn't watch the games.
 
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Uncle Rico said:
NFLPA and Clowney were probably just waiting to see if the Texans would put on their big boy pants. When it became evident they didn’t know what to do ie.. realistic framework of a long term deal - going back to the “low” offer from last year and all the gossip escaping that compound JD probably said fk em. He’s obviously trying to get his 1 big deal so it shouldn’t be a surprise to start seeing him fight and claw for every red cent. Simple positional snap breakdown answers this debate and it’s offensive the Texans would think otherwise.
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Yet not surprising coming from the Texans org and I'm in the let Clowney play on the tag crowd. Since the Texans tagged him Clowney ain't splitting crap this time around.

Cheapass org.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Can you use deductive reasoning? Establish a ceiling (Mack) and establish a floor (Frank Clark) and then negotiate from there - truth is if the Texans offered something reputable they would want the world to see it and move all leverage in their favor and put the pressure on Clowney, but that hasnt been the case either. Cecil Shorts reported last season that Clowney received what he considered 'low' offer for a long term deal (maybe closer to the Grady Jarrett type deal?). Texans are just toying with JD. The market is what the market is, not what the Texans would like it to be. Then they want to be petty over a LB vs DE designation to the tune of what 2Ms at the most? For the team who has the most cap space left? Laughable. Even more so when you see that JD lined up as a DE for 700 snaps, and a LB for 30.

Front office for my favorite team sucks.

Oh yeah and didnt every NFL team just take a nice cut in the 7 BILLION profit share of the NFL, something like 250Ms per team??? Yeah stick it to 'em JD.
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Quoted for truth

Ownership sucks and not a damn thing has changed from day 1.

I know every team is in this to make as much $$$$ possible, but the Texans are taking profiteering to the next level. It's really the only thing they're above avg at.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Can you use deductive reasoning? Establish a ceiling (Mack) and establish a floor (Frank Clark) and then negotiate from there - truth is if the Texans offered something reputable they would want the world to see it and move all leverage in their favor and put the pressure on Clowney, but that hasnt been the case either. Cecil Shorts reported last season that Clowney received what he considered 'low' offer for a long term deal (maybe closer to the Grady Jarrett type deal?). Texans are just toying with JD. The market is what the market is, not what the Texans would like it to be. Then they want to be petty over a LB vs DE designation to the tune of what 2Ms at the most? For the team who has the most cap space left? Laughable. Even more so when you see that JD lined up as a DE for 700 snaps, and a LB for 30.

Front office for my favorite team sucks.

Oh yeah and didnt every NFL team just take a nice cut in the 7 BILLION profit share of the NFL, something like 250Ms per team??? Yeah stick it to 'em JD.
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Look Unc let me put it to you this way - unless your name is Bus Cook (or Jadeveon Clowney) you dunno for a fact that my boy JD would actually accept Mack money.
Understand that you are a big Clowney fan as am I. No matter because it's still speculation for all of us to ascertain how far apart JD and the Texans are ?
 
https://deadspin.com/the-texans-are-stiffing-jadeveon-clowney-1836374234

Houston tagged Clowney as a linebacker instead of as a defensive end, even though last year he played 729 snaps at DE and just 33 at LB, according to ESPN. Because the tag is tied to positional salaries around the league, Houston will pay Clowney over a million dollars less than if they had tagged him as a DE.
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I "clearly" need to use the kitty cat emoji more often around here, sigh.
 
IDEXAN said:
Look Unc let me put it to you this way - unless your name is Bus Cook (or Jadeveon Clowney) you dunno for a fact that my boy JD would actually accept Mack money.
Understand that you are a big Clowney fan as am I. No matter because it's still speculation for all of us to ascertain how far apart JD and the Texans are ?
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If you believe initial rumors, then JD is looking for that Donald/Mack money .. and why shouldnt he? He's just as disruptive, but I would be the first to say that it wont happen. JD needs to settle in somewhere around 6/120 .. thats a realistic market for him. He's better than Frank Clark, and Demarcus Lawrence, so use those salaries as springboards. Cmon my guy, you know the Texans, I know the Texans, EVERYONE knows the Texans .. they are cheapskates who usually make bad FA signings and let their better players walk. Most of that lately has come down to OBrien, but it is what it is.
 
infantrycak said:
Does that cure quoting something clearly wrong?
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LOL @ "fake news" or is it "fake stats" now? Okay Mr Football Reference why dont you educate the board on how the snap designation should have been broken down since multiple media outlets seem to have gotten it wrong according to you.
 
Uncle Rico said:
If you believe initial rumors, then JD is looking for that Donald/Mack money .. and why shouldnt he? He's just as disruptive, but I would be the first to say that it wont happen. JD needs to settle in somewhere around 6/120 .. thats a realistic market for him. He's better than Frank Clark, and Demarcus Lawrence, so use those salaries as springboards. Cmon my guy, you know the Texans, I know the Texans, EVERYONE knows the Texans .. they are cheapskates who usually make bad FA signings and let their better players walk. Most of that lately has come down to OBrien, but it is what it is.
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This is what the Texans org is and always has been, long before BOB came on the scene. It was the same when Smithiak were here.

The old man dies and nothing changes, everything is cosmetics as always when it comes to the Texans org.

Save $$$$ but do just enough to keep'em eatin bbq and drinking beer. It's actually a great business plan.
 
Uncle Rico said:
LOL @ "fake news" or is it "fake stats" now? Okay Mr Football Reference why dont you educate the board on how the snap designation should have been broken down since multiple media outlets seem to have gotten it wrong according to you.
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I'll let Clowney answer this silliness:
The versatility of Texans Pro Bowl outside linebacker Jadeveon Clowney has been on display all season.

The former top overall pick from South Carolina lines up everywhere from a two-point stance to a traditional three-point stance at defensive end or as an interior defensive lineman or blitzing inside linebacker.

It has paid dividends for the Texans. Clowney has recorded eight sacks, 14 tackles for losses and 17 quarterback hits.

"They move me around more than I've probably ever moved," Clowney said. "I've played more linebacker this year than I've played in the past four years. Whatever I can do to help this team, I'll do it. I'll line up over the nose, guard, anywhere. They lean on me to help and I'm going to do whatever it takes."
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Link

You have to be utterly blind to think 30 snaps at LB is close to reality.

Edit: here's another little problem for your source, Clowney played 901 snaps last season. Where are the other 171 snaps?
 
Uncle Rico said:
If you believe initial rumors, then JD is looking for that Donald/Mack money .. and why shouldnt he? He's just as disruptive, but I would be the first to say that it wont happen. JD needs to settle in somewhere around 6/120 .. thats a realistic market for him. He's better than Frank Clark, and Demarcus Lawrence, so use those salaries as springboards. Cmon my guy, you know the Texans, I know the Texans, EVERYONE knows the Texans .. they are cheapskates who usually make bad FA signings and let their better players walk. Most of that lately has come down to OBrien, but it is what it is.
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Is he?

2017+2018-

JD-

gms tack sks tfl qbh ff fr

31 106 18.5 37 42 3 6



DL-

gms tack sks tfl qbh ff fr

32 122 25 29 49 6 3

And no, raw numbers aren't definitive, but when it comes to negotiating raw dollars..
 
infantrycak said:
I'll let Clowney answer this silliness:


Link

You have to be utterly blind to think 30 snaps at LB is close to reality.

Edit: here's another little problem for your source, Clowney played 901 snaps last season. Where are the other 171 snaps?
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Oh ok so you'll just stand on not knowing the exact numbers and when presented with any information (that is tracked by someone) you'll just cry fake and go with an anecdote about being blind and then link to some obscure COMPANY LINE quote from JD? So "more linebacker" means what exactly when his hand is in the dirt FAR MORE THAN any other position he's played .. they line him up at DT too Im actually surprised the dickwads on Kirby didnt try to say he was a DT to lowball and 'save' more money. Trying to convolute the bullshit doesnt make it go away.

Jadeveon Clowney is a DE .. change my mind. When the NFL rules that is the case - you can shut your ass up and take the L.
 
For all my blind brothers out there maybe someone can read this article to you, and then when this one makes you cry fake, there are like 20 more right behind it.

https://start.att.net/news/read/cat...lowney_should_get_the_de_not_lb_fran-rgannett

With the NFL Players Association’s filing of a grievance against the Houston Texans for failure to pay Jadaveon Clowney as a defensive end compared to linebacker on the franchise tag, one key figure should be noted: Clowney is listed as a defensive end and played 22 times the snaps at the position than at linebacker.

According to ESPN Stats & Information, the Texans lined up Clowney at defensive end 729 times and linebacker 33 times in 2018. On ESPN, Pro Football Reference, the Houston Texans‘ official website, Clowney is listed at defensive end, not linebacker. Yet, he’s paid as one.
In February, the Texans franchise tagged Clowney as a DE/OLB. It’s reasonable to do so. Clowney is a rare-bread; he’s one of the true positionless players in the NFL, as he can blitz effectively from defensive end, outside linebacker, and MIKE-linebacker positions. But what isn’t reasonable is that, at the end of the day, he got paid as a linebacker, a nearly $1.7 million difference.

Based on snap counts — a pivotal element to franchise tag designations — there are 696 reasons why Clowney should be paid like a defensive end rather than a linebacker. Again, he isn’t, and now, with the deadline to extend him done, he won’t be for a while.

The Texans’ questionable use of the franchise tag (they haven’t done so in 10 years) isn’t just a testament to an offseason that’s been all but stable, it’s also one for the outdatedness of the tag. Designating a player as a linebacker or defensive end isn’t how it should be done. Between those positions is a litany of sub-positions; including edge, 3-4 end, inside linebacker, and outside 4-3 linebacker.

Clowney is, by all means, an edge player. It’s what he does best and no matter the snap count at defensive end/linebacker, it’s his actual position and meaning on the Texans’ defense. If there were such a designation, this drama would’ve been avoided far long ago.
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Uncle Rico said:
Oh ok so you'll just stand on not knowing the exact numbers and when presented with any information (that is tracked by someone) you'll just cry fake and go with an anecdote about being blind and then link to some obscure COMPANY LINE quote from JD? So "more linebacker" means what exactly when his hand is in the dirt FAR MORE THAN any other position he's played .. they line him up at DT too Im actually surprised the dickwads on Kirby didnt try to say he was a DT to lowball and 'save' more money. Trying to convolute the bullshit doesnt make it go away.

Jadeveon Clowney is a DE .. change my mind. When the NFL rules that is the case - you can shut your ass up and take the L.
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wow, so passionate over a measly 1.5M of someone else's money!
 
Why should clowney be ok with O'Brien spending $1.5 million he deserves on some washed up offensive lineman who should be making the minimum?
 
This organization is becoming a joke more and more each day. OB dislikes Clowney, you could see it his rookie year when he applied pressure to JDC to rush his rehab and further comprised him. How the hell is this guy calling the shots for the entire organization? What a disaster we’ve become. We’re on the verge of wasting and losing another star player.
 
ok, so there's this clairification....
....Gaine wanted to lock Clowney up long term and head coach Bill O’Brien was not interested, and the two had disagreements with the extension of their pass rusher....
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since the other article noted somewhere in TT really didn't specify WHO wanted to lock up JDC (though most guessed correctly)

... and as for the teams BELIEVED TO BE interested...

With a deal becoming harder to come by with each passing day, the Texans might opt to trade Clowney and recover some assets before he hits unrestricted free agency. It is understood that there is at least four NFL teams that have contacted the Texans already regarding a potential trade deal before week 1.
Here are the six teams who are believed to be interested in taking on Clowney for at least the following year and have made contact with Houston, to discuss possible trade scenarios.....
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Then proceeds to list the 6 teams over 3 pages and why:
Philly
Indy
Baltimore
Cleveland
Oakland
Buffalo

https://www.nflchatter.com/2019/07/16/6-teams-show-strong-interest-in-texans-star/
 
Uncle Rico said:
He's better than Frank Clark, and Demarcus Lawrence, so use those salaries as springboards
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I'm just not seeing JC on that level & I don't think the NFL does either. If they did we'd have got a Frank Clark like trade offer for him back in the draft.

I mean every other rumor surrounding Clowney seems to have come to light. Had someone offered a trade like that & the Texans turned them down... we'd have heard by now right?
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm just not seeing JC on that level & I don't think the NFL does either. If they did we'd have got a Frank Clark like trade offer for him back in the draft.

I mean every other rumor surrounding Clowney seems to have come to light. Had someone offered a trade like that & the Texans turned them down... we'd have heard by now right?
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There were rumors of the Bills offering 1.9 & Lions offering 1.8.
 
I just hope he's keeping himself in good shape and somehow gets some kind of contact work in before the regular season starts in Sept.
Hate to see him come into the NOLA season opener in poor condition which might result in a serious injury after all he's been thru by now.
 
i get the feeling the Texans pay for performance, but for the premium long term mega deals they want to also get the wider impact on the team in terms of leadership. Hopkins, Watt, McKinney all were resigned at the high end when they signed. BOB wanted Honey badger back bad, and seemed almost more for his locker room impact. I agree in the NFL you pay for performance and Clowney is below Mack, but above Lawrence when factoring that, but I have not seen the intangibles that I think BOB wants before he pays. Org philosophy maybe? Also, I have heard debates and cannot find info on who tags a player at their position. Some people say we tagged him and the NFL decides his designation. Then we get sued by NFLPA so it gets sorted out. Seems odd as Texans settled the difference with him before
 
i get the feeling the Texans pay for performance, but for the premium long term mega deals they want to also get the wider impact on the team in terms of leadership. Hopkins, Watt, McKinney all were resigned at the high end when they signed. BOB wanted Honey badger back bad, and seemed almost more for his locker room impact. I agree in the NFL you pay for performance and Clowney is below Mack, but above Lawrence when factoring that, but I have not seen the intangibles that I think BOB wants before he pays. Org philosophy maybe? Also, I have heard debates and cannot find info on who tags a player at their position. Some people say we tagged him and the NFL decides his designation. Then we get sued by NFLPA so it gets sorted out. Seems odd as Texans settled the difference with him before
 
Rich Schmidt said:
Also, I have heard debates and cannot find info on who tags a player at their position. Some people say we tagged him and the NFL decides his designation. Then we get sued by NFLPA so it gets sorted out. Seems odd as Texans settled the difference with him before
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The Texans did not use a position to tag him. They added 20% to last seasons compromise splitting LB & DE. So the way he is tendered is about 2/3rds LB & 1/3rd DE..

The NFLPA has filed a grievance with the NFL (i.e. the NFL will decide) not a lawsuit. What they have done in the past with players like Terrell Suggs is split on the proportion played at each.
 
IDEXAN said:
I just hope he's keeping himself in good shape and somehow gets some kind of contact work in before the regular season starts in Sept.
Hate to see him come into the NOLA season opener in poor condition which might result in a serious injury after all he's been thru by now.
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Clowney's best move may ne to just sit out the year as far as long term money goes.

If he comes out the gates slow and doesn't have a great year or worse misses time with injuries, that would likely hurt him in contract negotiations.

If I were him I'd probably sit and force the Texans hand if I truly felt like the coach didn't like me and the organization was low balling me.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Clowney's best move may ne to just sit out the year as far as long term money goes.

If he comes out the gates slow and doesn't have a great year or worse misses time with injuries, that would likely hurt him in contract negotiations.

If I were him I'd probably sit and force the Texans hand if I truly felt like the coach didn't like me and the organization was low balling me.
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Never make the money back sitting out a year. He'd have to get an extra $3.15 mil per year on a 5 year deal, $3.925 mil on a 4 year deal.
 
PapaL said:
If BooB errr BOb hasn’t seen the intangibles in Clowney that means he’s been asleep behind the wheel these last 3 pro bowl seasons. Ownership and FO dropped the ball all offseason and continue to do so.
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Perhaps he's not as great in the locker room and that rubs OB the wrong way
 
infantrycak said:
Never make the money back sitting out a year. He'd have to get an extra $3.15 mil per year on a 5 year deal, $3.925 mil on a 4 year deal.
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I guess it depends on how confident he is in himself or what advice he's getting.


what I mean is suppose a team is willing to pay him 35 mil guaranteed on a 100 mil deal (just making up numbers)

but he has a mediocre season or misses time with injuries..

now the most some team is willing to pay is 20 mil guaranteed on an 80 mil contract.

True he's missing out on the franchise tag money but he's also taking a risk of his value dropping beyond the amount of money he'd make by accepting the franchise tag and playing.
 
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