The Pats are also in a much different place than the Texans.
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Houston as a dstination for FA's
- Thread starter steelbtexan
- Start date
The Pats are also in a much different place than the Texans.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Not such that it makes trading JJ make any sense. Your odds of drafting as good a player are nil & the cap is unneeded.
Gotta do it if 1. You're not gonna win a championship in the next 2 yrs and you would be doing Watt right by shipping him to a team that can win a championship. 2. You gotta make this move to get long-term maximum value for Watt. I see Watt and Clowney in the same vein and if you're gonna let one go you should let the other go to maximize both of their values.
3. You also gotta trade Watt if you're going to win that Salary cap championship and that's what's really important.
With the Texans philosophy a total rebuild is the only way to bring a Lombardi to Kirby.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Can we get a moderator to fix the thread title?
The reason we didn’t get FA’s this year: money.
Houston has Deshaun Watson that still has his best years ahead of him. They have the best WR in the league in Deandre Hopkins and some good young talent in Reid/McKinney/Cunningham/Clowney/Reader etc.
I’m telling you, the reason is not because of team history or how this team was a decade ago. No player gives two shits about that. It’s about money. Guys like Roby and Mathieu came here to show what they can do with a good team and then move on to their payday.
With that being said, I’m really concerned about Gaine going full money ball. The Oakland A’s and teams that do that will never be sustainable contenders. The Houston Astros method of build a solid young team, then go out and find talented players that can change your franchise in free agency. The Astros even took a chance on a Young stud closer in Robert osuna and it paid off. The Browns are using the same method and they will be great. Meanwhile, we’re being cheap to clowney. And players see that. They’ll be less likely to come here because of that
Houston has Deshaun Watson that still has his best years ahead of him. They have the best WR in the league in Deandre Hopkins and some good young talent in Reid/McKinney/Cunningham/Clowney/Reader etc.
I’m telling you, the reason is not because of team history or how this team was a decade ago. No player gives two shits about that. It’s about money. Guys like Roby and Mathieu came here to show what they can do with a good team and then move on to their payday.
With that being said, I’m really concerned about Gaine going full money ball. The Oakland A’s and teams that do that will never be sustainable contenders. The Houston Astros method of build a solid young team, then go out and find talented players that can change your franchise in free agency. The Astros even took a chance on a Young stud closer in Robert osuna and it paid off. The Browns are using the same method and they will be great. Meanwhile, we’re being cheap to clowney. And players see that. They’ll be less likely to come here because of that
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Watt & Clowney are not remotely similar and in no way tied. Watt is 30 with 3 years left & underpaid. It's entirely likely this is his last contract as he has stated he does not want to play past being dominant. If he were to get hurt there is almost no dead money.
Clowney is looking for a giant, long deal which would be Russian roulette for the Texans.
Trading Watt even for a 1st does not "maximize value." Odds of replacing his talent are minimal & he is cheap.
You're just doing one of your melodrama tantrums, 'well uf they won't get the FAs I want then they should blow it all up for as many draft picks as possible, damn however many more holes it creates, mocks will be more fun."
Or a new HC. That's much simpler.
You assert it but provide no argument or support. They have lots of cap room. Other than making a run at Brown they appear to have chosen not to spend.
Nope, do you think the Texans are going to win a SB in the next 3 years? If not it's time to get younger. Because all you are doing is wasting Watt's career just like they did AJ's. This is vallca being proactive, no tantrums. You just disagree with my philosophy. One thing is for sure, what the Texans org has done and is currently doing isn't going to bring a Lombardi to Kirby an I want to be wrong about this but doubt I will be.
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I thought this was just year 2 of giving Gaine at least 3 years?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Why? If their philosophy isn't big time free agency and they aren't fantastic at the draft how does blowing it up help? It makes no sense.
You need as many picks as possible to try to win a championship 5 yrs from now if they are going to be a draft only team and not only will Watt/Clowney help in getting the draft picks needed they will also help in opening up $$$$ and the Texans should be a worse team so they should get higher draft picks and be able to build a better team than the current mediocre team. Plus when they should a really good team Brady will be retired and Watson will have the experience needed to win a championship.
Of course if you think they can win a championship in the next 3 years that's different. But if you don't think they can then tear it down Jimmy Johnson style and rebuild it correctly.
So you're already giving up on the Gaine you were so high on in January/February? wow
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
There's no reason they can't win within 3 years playerwise. Cowboys went from 1-15 to SB champ 3 years later. And they had only 3 extra picks during that time. Frankly they blew the 1990 draft other than Emmitt.
That's because Jimmy Johnson had the balls to do EXACTLY what I'm talking about, with no 1/2 measures.
They have the QB and the #1 WR, they have the core group. They need a few pieces and the coaching staff to put it all together. Much too early to hope for a full rebuild
Texansballer74
The Marine
They aren't going anywhere with what they're currently doing.
I want to see Watt get a chance to play for a champiomship level team. Instead it looks like he's going to suffer the same fate as AJ. Ib your heart can you honestly tell me you think the Texans will be championship contenders in 3 yrs? At worst Clowney's gone after next season. 2 yrs later Watt will be gone.
It's time to go young.
Their core group is good enough to win this division next yr?
Much less a championship within the next 3 yrs?
You surely have turned out to be the optimist.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
That's some happy horsesh!t right there. The 1992 Cowboys had 1, ONE significant FA - Charles Haley. The starting OL was 2 3rds, 2 Landry UDFAs and a 10th round yeoman FA with 1 season starting. Oh, and the team was built around a 1st round RB who many doubted should be taken in the 1st. It was almost the opposite of your preferred program for the Texans.
You want to give up more draft stock on one pick than their entire line. Or make a middle of the road OT the top paid player on the team instead of nabbing an edge with 3 pro bowls & an all pro.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Yes. I think the Texans has a chance at winning a SB in the next three years.
Did he not trade for multiple draft picks? BTW, Johnson traded for Haley.
Including Russel Maryland #1 overall.
Did he not trade Walsh for draft picks, Walker?
The only guys he kepy on offense were Irvin/Aikman/Newton/Tuneiu (SP)
On defense he kept Jeffcoat, the rest of the squad was either traded away for picks or flat out cut over a 3 yr period. But carry on.
Bottom line is I think the Texans need to change how they do business if they want to become contenders and you are happy with the way they do business and think a new HC will fix everything. Particularly a HC that runs the ZBS/West Coast offense.
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Thats why your handle is dream team and you're dreaming.
Not that there's anything wrong with this, I wish I was more like you. 16 yrs of mediocrity will do that to a fellow though.
I want to see how this draft and a full season with hopefully the OL performing together before I say blow it up... much like you said before the fa season started. I think you are letting your disappointment that they didn't sign Brown curdle your milk
Fair enough, but this isn't about Brown.
It's about the fact that their organizational philosophy will never win and I had hope Cletus would change the organizational philosophy. I guess I got my hopes up for nothing.
I guess the Texans could have a really good season next yr if they had a great draft and remained incredibly healthy. What are the odds of this happening.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
1992 was his 4th season not 2nd. It's called NFL turnover. Know how many Texans remained from Capers in Kubiak's 4th year? - 2.
And no he did not trade away existing good players for a bunch of picks. As I said they had 3 extra in rebuilding from 1-15 ... and wasted all but the Emmitt pick in 1990. They got extra picks by drafting Wisniewski & Pritchett and immediately trading them.
Lol at yeoman and soon to be gone Maryland at #1 overall. You'll love this, rumor had it they took him because he agreed to take much less money than #1s were getting.
I said nothing about the way the Texans do business. I said your approach bears no resemblance to how the Cowboys won. Right down to an easy one, the Cowboys were built around the triplets drafted in the 1st - WR by the former coach, QB and then RB. The Texans have the 1st 2. You oppose the 3rd.
So they won on a 3 year turn around with zero big FAs. Thx, forgot that. You see any all pros available for a 2020 2nd and 2021 3rd? To translate that, picks after they won.
Trivia, Haley with 5 SB rings and Brady with 6 are the top 2 player SB ring holders.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Haha... fair enough. Yes, I tend to be on the optimistic side when it comes to my sports teams. Life is hard enough to also tack on a "my team sucks and have no chance" mentality for my favorite teams.
Now to be clear, I said they have a "chance". Do I think they'll win in the next three years? No. But to be fair, there isn't ANY team in the NFL that I would confidently say "That team will win a championship in the next three years." Every team has their reasons to have doubt.
It hasnt even been a year yet since daddy passed. Little early to be expecting big changes. And his mother is still basically in charge
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I don't know that she does, but I'm sure she advises and does pay attention... her letter to AJ seems to suggest that to me
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Jimmy Johnson didn't have to deal with the current F/A system when he was wheelin and dealin. That's why a deal like the Walker deal will never happen again. Now you have guys with average stats, like Brown, getting paid like HoF players. To the thread topic where does this BS about "F/A don't want to come here" keep coming from? F/A look at the money being thrown their way and then go with the one that has the most zeros on it unless they want to go with the Pats to try and get a ring before their next contract like Brown did. For times when the money is equal and it does come down to the intangibles in my recent memory we are one and one. Solder decided against coming here, dodged a bullet there, but Osweiler picked us over Denver, that bullet hit us right in the heart.
As far as trading Watt goes in amazes me how some on here seem to think that play on the field is the only thing that factored in on a player. Do you have any idea how much money Watt brings off endorsements for both the Texans and himself. He is the only player on the Texans that even non-football fans know by sight. My wife could pass Watson, Hopkins and Clowney on the street and never know it was them but she would know Watt, and hopefully get his autograph for me. This really became the case after Harvey plus Watt will most likely be the first Texan to go into the HoF. Add in his cheap contract on top of this and serious conversations about trading him are short sighted and frankly stupid.
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Offensively I think they need a Center. That's it. Everything else would be icing.
They need improvement at LT. I dont know if Davenport can take the next step or not. I don't know what Kalil brings to the table. But I think securing the interior will help the edges a bunch.
RB, if they get a Cenyer, LM may be able to produce like we thought he would.
WR2, slot.... just need a little health.
Romeo has the defense.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Knew someone was going to bring Johnson up. Here's a very interesting article addressing that.
https://houseofhouston.com/2018/08/06/houston-texans-three-players-hof/
To summarize Johnson will go in at some point but no idea when. It could be next year it could be 10 years from now. He was good but he wasn't first ballet good and who knows who else will be considered before that. watt will go in pretty much the year after he retires and if we trust what he says about not playing past when he can be dominate that will most likely be soon after his current 3 year deal is up depending on injuries and such. Basically what it comes down to is if you were to take odds on who will go in first the odds are more in Watt's favor than Johnson.
How much of a chance do you think they have?
If it's less than 50% then it's time to rebuild.
I agree,
I didn't realize Mrs. McNair has an active role with the team.
Hopefully this is why Cletus hasn't changed a thing.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I'd take those odds in a heartbeat.
Pure silliness. The Patriots are the only team who even arguably have a 50% chance.
And if the rebuild fails ala the Cleveland Browns and Buffalo Bills and Miami Dolphins et al numerous times... what then?
Landry's last act was to draft Aikman.
There is no Emmitt Smith in this draft IMHO
Having 2 all pro OL to build Johnson's team around didn't hurt a thing and 2 of the 3 tripletts.
The Texans dont have Tuineu and Newton on their OL and the only way they will get them is thru the draft. I want Gaine to get as many lotto tickets as possible. The defense sucked by the end of last yr with Watt/Clowney, so why not trade them, get picks and save the cap space.
Love the Haley trivia, do you think Haley would be Texans worthy and would they add him if it meant a chance at 5 rings?
Emmitt Smith wasn't considered to be one of the best RB of all time in 1990, and yet he made the pro-bowl (1990) before either Newton (1992) or Tuinei (1994) did. Who was built around who? Takes little research my friend. Your black bias is betraying you
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infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Landry was fired & Jimmy Johnson hired February 26th. Aikman was drafted April 23rd.
Nobody thought Emmitt was Emmitt at the time. He was too slow & too small.
Neither had even been to a pro bowl. Newton's 1st was 1992 (1st all pro 1994) and Tuinei's (who never made all pro) was 1994.
Duh, because you don't get better by trashing your best pieces.
And then in 1991 Emmitt was all pro and led the league in rushing without anyone on the OL making the pro bowl.
Agreed
And I understand what you're saying.
But what you're really saying is the Texans value $$$$$/PR/HOF'er over on the field product. This stuff has always been the case and feel free to think I'm stupid for suggesting taking the long game so they have a better chance to win a championship. I'm just saying there should be no sacred cows in the pursuit of a SB if the Texans are trying to truly emulate the Pats but they dont truly do things like the Pats do.
I'm just saying the Texans if they're going to win a SB under the current model need a total rebuild around Watson/Hopkins.
Andre will be eligible in 2021.
If we're assuming JJ is done after this contract is up (not at all a guarantee, but ok) then he'll be eligible in 2026.
Could turn out wrong, but I'll go with Andre not having to wait a full five years.
Hell, maybe they go in together?
The more things change, the more they stay the same
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
JJ is a sh!t example for that.
Aikman was Brandt's last 1st rd pick before he was fired, so the former Cowboys staff was still in place for that draft.
What are the chances of landing Emmitt at 23 and I like Jacobs alot. But until they get their Tuinei/Newton getting Jacobs wont matter. It's time to fix the OL and this is a good OL draft. I'm good with Gaine not fixing the secondary if it means fixing the OL since the Texans aren't winning a SB anyways next yr. BTW, There's a shot the Texans could draft Jacobs at 23 and Little/Risner or McGary at 54/55. Would you be happy with rds 1-2 if the draft fell this way and those were the Texans picks?
Tuinei/Newton were ascending young players who got with Houck who's a great OL coach. Something you cant say talentwise or coachingwise the Texans currently have.
I notice that you didn't address the Haley/Texans worthy part of my post. Do you think the Texans would add a guy like Haley if it meant having a chance to win 5 rings?
Sacred cows?