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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

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maverick512000 said:
My post had nothing to do with the dysfunction of the org. I am asking you to clarify what seems to be two contradicting statements. That Rick Smith should have been confident enough to tell BoB no we are not drafting a player while in past posts claiming that Smith was not getting BoB the players he wanted and that was part of the problem. Either Smith was getting walked all over and wasn't willing to stand up to BoB or he was refusing to get BoB the players he wanted. You have made both of these arguments now and they contradict each other so I am simply asking for clarification.

As to your other points my question had absolutely nothing to do with who was or was not bringing a championship to Houston nor did I mention anything about Cal or any McNair. I stated what I believe was the case, and you are right what I or you think doesn't matter, but again that was not the point of my question. I directly asked you what you felt the GMs role was, particularly in regards to drafting, and you didn't answer that question.

That's fine if you don't want to answer, Heaven knows you don't owe me an answer, but as this is a discussion I felt it was still worth asking.
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*crickets*

You need to keep in mind that in his eyes, Rick Smith was the worst GM to ever walk the Earth. The basis of all of his arguments somehow stems eventually to... Rick Smith sucked at his job.
 
maverick512000 said:
Wait, what? So you are saying that Watson, Watt, Clowney and Mercilus, just to name a few, were playing at their talent level? If that's the case then we are in full rebuild mode because everyone on the team sucks. It doesn't take an entire team of all pros, at least it shouldn't, to win a game even a playoff game and yes even a SB. Pretty much every winning team since the dawn of football has had a few star players and then most of the rest are just "good enough". I agree that several spots on the Texans, particularly the O Line, don't rate good enough but even our star players were barely at "good enough" level while the Colts star players were looking like stars.

In my opinion we are not near as far away from being contenders as you seem to think. They mostly need an O line that can actually give Watson time to find a receiver without having to scramble 2 seconds into the play, a bit more depth at WR so if Fuller goes down its not back to the days of double team Nuk or, God forbid, Nuk goes down where we might as well just take Watson off the field because whats the point, somebody, anybody, on defense that can actually cover a WR, an OC that doesn't approach every game like he is insane, you know that whole doing the same thing over and expecting different results and a DC that remembers that the other team does more than just run the ball.

All of these things can be fixed or at least improved within one off season if the GM and HC are worth all the zeros on their pay check. Its why I said BoB deserves another year to show that he can do something with the team. But lets not make it sound like this is a team with little to no talent, this is a team that plays harder but not smarter than other playoff teams and that is on the coaches. The fact is that in the game against the Colts they didn't even look like a high school team, they looked like some backyard flag football team and the coaches, all of them, looked like they were picking plays using a magic 8 ball.
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I dont think they're far away. They need to find atleast 5 upgrades this offseason.

2-3 OL

2 CB's

WR

Blocking TE

RB

If they can find a couple of OL/CB's and a WR I will be happy with this offseason.
 
dream_team said:
*crickets*

You need to keep in mind that in his eyes, Rick Smith was the worst GM to ever walk the Earth. The basis of all of his arguments somehow stems eventually to... Rick Smith sucked at his job.
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Nope, Bob McNair was actually at fault.

Hopefully Cal will be better.
 
infantrycak said:
Little early for judging Cal. This is really the 1st offseason to see if he has a different stamp or a stamp at all. For all we know he may be completely hands off and just hold OB/Gaine responsible.
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Then he has to hold them responsible... if he didn't ask the question 'are the boys going to be ready Bill?' then he was derelict.
 
dream_team said:
*crickets*

You need to keep in mind that in his eyes, Rick Smith was the worst GM to ever walk the Earth. The basis of all of his arguments somehow stems eventually to... Rick Smith sucked at his job.
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man if that ain't a :stirpot: post, I ain't ever seen one
 
JB said:
Actually he listed 8.. and imo he's pretty spot on
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Thing is not just "perfect" teams win SBs. Classic example, 2003 Patriots. Bobby Hamilton was a nothing DE with 0 sacks. Roman Phifer was an about to lose his starting gig 35 year old LB. Brady was an 85.9 rating QB who didn't even pull 2 to 1 TDs to INTs. Soon to be dumped 3.5 ypc Antowain Smith aka Alfred Blue, was their lead RB. They had no 900 yd much less 1000+ yd WR. 472 yd Troy Brown was their #2.
 
infantrycak said:
Thing is not just "perfect" teams win SBs. Classic example, 2003 Patriots. Bobby Hamilton was a nothing DE with 0 sacks. Roman Phifer was an about to lose his starting gig 35 year old LB. Brady was an 85.9 rating QB who didn't even pull 2 to 1 TDs to INTs. Soon to be dumped 3.5 ypc Antowain Smith aka Alfred Blue, was their lead RB. They had no 900 yd much less 1000+ yd WR. 472 yd Troy Brown was their #2.
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But they had what we hope we have, a HOF QB
 
steelbtexan said:
I dont think they're far away. They need to find atleast 5 upgrades this offseason.

2-3 OL

2 CB's

WR

Blocking TE

RB

If they can find a couple of OL/CB's and a WR I will be happy with this offseason.
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I dunno but don't we have some measure of hope, maybe even expectations that 2018 6th round steal, 6'6" 280 lb Jordan Thomas can be that blocking TE along with his pretty descent pair of hands ? Wasn't he originally drafted to be that blocking TE ?
 
JB said:
But they had what we hope we have, a HOF QB
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But he wasn't playing at that level yet. He didn't break a 90 QB rating until the next year and already had 2 SB rings.

I've told this story before, but a couple months after rhe 2003 SB I was at Sam's Boat having crawfish. Smith walked by and I asked if he was Jonathan Wells. His entourage busted a gut but he ended up being real nice. Semi-blew his entourage off and sat down with us for a while. Talked about him wanting to go to Dallas.
 
JB said:
oh, but he was
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No he wasn't yet the Tom Brady that gets entire rules changed to protect him or can't tell when his balls are deflated. Insults aside he wasn't yet the Tom Brady that makes being a QB look easy no matter what the defense throws at him.
 
IDEXAN said:
I dunno but don't we have some measure of hope, maybe even expectations that 2018 6th round steal, 6'6" 280 lb Jordan Thomas can be that blocking TE along with his pretty descent pair of hands ? Wasn't he originally drafted to be that blocking TE ?
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Nah, he essentially play wr at miss st.
 
infantrycak said:
Thing is not just "perfect" teams win SBs. Classic example, 2003 Patriots. Bobby Hamilton was a nothing DE with 0 sacks. Roman Phifer was an about to lose his starting gig 35 year old LB. Brady was an 85.9 rating QB who didn't even pull 2 to 1 TDs to INTs. Soon to be dumped 3.5 ypc Antowain Smith aka Alfred Blue, was their lead RB. They had no 900 yd much less 1000+ yd WR. 472 yd Troy Brown was their #2.
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^^^ This ^^^

I have never understood the mantra that we need a perfect team w/ no holes before being able to compete for a SB. In the salary cap era, there's no such thing as a perfect team. That's why good coaching in this league is extremely important. They need to figure out ways to win despite the team's holes. Look at the Eagles... that team has holes all over the place, but Pederson is simply finding ways to win.

I credit BOB for finding ways to win during the regular season, despite our team's drawbacks.
 
thunderkyss said:
When you say this, it's like you're saying the Colts offense is more talented than our defense. Which is not the case. We have 8 of the 11 defensive starters picked in the first or 2nd round.

Our offense also has as much talent as their defense. Talent wise it should have been a wash. But three scores on their first three possessions... then for us to score only once the remainder of the game, I think it is you who has no clue what it means to be out coached.
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Tough to compare defenses to offenses...but lets look at the match ups that we can look at

Watson < Luck
Miller = Mack
Joseph < Hilton
Jackson < Inman
Wright < Rogers/Inman
Watt > Castonzo
Reader/Dunn << Nelson/Boehm/Glowinski
Clowney > Smith...
Cunningham/Mercy < Ebron
McKinney > Hewitt/Doyle
Davenport < Sheard
Martin = Autry/Hunt..being generous here b/c Autry owned Martin in the 2nd match up with 2 sacks
Lamm < Lewis/Turay
Griffin/Akins/Thomas << Leonard/Walker
Nuk >> Desir
Coutee/Smith > Moore

I see 5 match ups tops that we outright win talent wise & in a few of those I was being generous with the = sign as Martin was owned by Autry in the 2nd match up. Miller was also non-existent in all 3 games against Indy this year, but we know that Mack shredded our defense in the playoffs. Clowney was also a non-factor against Smith in the last 2 games as well...I just awarded him the match up b/c Clowney doesn't really get a chance to match up with him all game long b/c he moves around a lot.
 
Mr teX said:
Tough to compare defenses to offenses...but lets look at the match ups that we can look at

Watson < Luck
Miller = Mack
Joseph < Hilton
Jackson < Inman
Wright < Rogers/Inman
Watt > Castonzo
Reader/Dunn << Nelson/Boehm/Glowinski
Clowney > Smith...
Cunningham/Mercy < Ebron
McKinney > Hewitt/Doyle
Davenport < Sheard
Martin = Autry/Hunt..being generous here b/c Autry owned Martin in the 2nd match up with 2 sacks
Lamm < Lewis/Turay
Griffin/Akins/Thomas << Leonard/Walker
Nuk >> Desir
Coutee/Smith > Moore

I see 5 match ups tops that we outright win talent wise & in a few of those I was being generous with the = sign as Martin was owned by Autry in the 2nd match up. Miller was also non-existent in all 3 games against Indy this year, but we know that Mack shredded our defense in the playoffs. Clowney was also a non-factor against Smith in the last 2 games as well...I just awarded him the match up b/c Clowney doesn't really get a chance to match up with him all game long b/c he moves around a lot.
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During the game Saturday I recall the announcer saying Clowney should be embarassed how a rookie had blown him two yards back into the end zone as they ran at him to score.
 
ColeThornton said:
He also said he couldn't believe Clowney was trying a swim move on the goal line. His point was the only chance he had was to go low for leverage...
Was that stupid too?
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Yup. It was 2 300 pounders (actually 311 lb & 330 lb all pro) on 1 255 lb guy. His only hope was to split.

Remember who we're talking about here, a rarely used for blocking TE.
 
dream_team said:
^^^ This ^^^

I have never understood the mantra that we need a perfect team w/ no holes before being able to compete for a SB. In the salary cap era, there's no such thing as a perfect team. That's why good coaching in this league is extremely important. They need to figure out ways to win despite the team's holes. Look at the Eagles... that team has holes all over the place, but Pederson is simply finding ways to win.

I credit BOB for finding ways to win during the regular season, despite our team's drawbacks.
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Well, honestly I've said that about the Texans myself many times before. However, it was more a statement of how to overcome our coaching staff than a statement of a need for a perfect team in order to win or compete in a SB in general.
 
infantrycak said:
Thought it was Witten. Either way I disagree. That was a well run zone blocking play. Caught the Texans off guard.
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I just rewatched it, you are right, it was a good play call. Started out 4 on 2 and ended up 5 on 3. And it sounded like McFarland who should know something about playing defensive line. It looked bad for Clowney because at the end of the play he was one on one with the rookie two yards back in the end zone, while other Texans were not blown back that far. The play was over at that point but the optics were bad. It also didn't help that the camera focused on Clowney on the sideline after the play, like they do when they are pointing out whose fault it was.
 
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Mr teX said:
Tough to compare defenses to offenses...but lets look at the match ups that we can look at

Watson < Luck
Miller = Mack
Joseph < Hilton
Jackson < Inman
Wright < Rogers/Inman
Watt > Castonzo
Reader/Dunn << Nelson/Boehm/Glowinski
Clowney > Smith...
Cunningham/Mercy < Ebron
McKinney > Hewitt/Doyle
Davenport < Sheard
Martin = Autry/Hunt..being generous here b/c Autry owned Martin in the 2nd match up with 2 sacks
Lamm < Lewis/Turay
Griffin/Akins/Thomas << Leonard/Walker
Nuk >> Desir
Coutee/Smith > Moore

I see 5 match ups tops that we outright win talent wise & in a few of those I was being generous with the = sign as Martin was owned by Autry in the 2nd match up. Miller was also non-existent in all 3 games against Indy this year, but we know that Mack shredded our defense in the playoffs. Clowney was also a non-factor against Smith in the last 2 games as well...I just awarded him the match up b/c Clowney doesn't really get a chance to match up with him all game long b/c he moves around a lot.
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Too bad that's not the way matchups play out on the field.

Jj Watt, body, body, Clowney

McKinney, Cunningham

Doesn't make sense we didn't lay a finger on Luck especially considering that Honey Badger & Reid fixed our problem at Safety (should have ran a safety blitz or a few).

Do we need to add another first rounder to our front 7?

Like Mercilus?
 
thunderkyss said:
Too bad that's not the way matchups play out on the field.

Jj Watt, body, body, Clowney

McKinney, Cunningham

Doesn't make sense we didn't lay a finger on Luck especially considering that Honey Badger & Reid fixed our problem at Safety (should have ran a safety blitz or a few).

Do we need to add another first rounder to our front 7?

Like Mercilus?
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Especially for a top 10 defense and top 5 front.

Where were the stunts, delayed blitz, or corner/safety blitzes.

Both coaches failed this team miserably Thunder. Very disappointing
 
JB said:
Defense didn't help take any pressure off... extending drives with silly penalties on the first two for a quick 0-14 hole
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halftime we were down 21-zip. Final score was 21-7.
The fact is that the defense woke up in the 2nd half and SHUT OUT Andrew Luck & Co.
Where were the halftime adjustments by the offense??
 
thunderkyss said:
Too bad that's not the way matchups play out on the field.

Jj Watt, body, body, Clowney

McKinney, Cunningham

Doesn't make sense we didn't lay a finger on Luck especially considering that Honey Badger & Reid fixed our problem at Safety (should have ran a safety blitz or a few).

Do we need to add another first rounder to our front 7?

Like Mercilus?
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So....your solution was to make an already weak area of our defense weaker by running safety blitzes? Gotcha.

It makes perfect sense actually. The supposed strength of our team in the front 7 couldn’t consistently win their 1 on 1’s b/c they were more or less out-talented. Doesn’t matter how the matchups exactly broke down, there were more matchups consistently in the favor of Indy than there were for us and very little of that was b/c of coached up scheme. He’ll 1st drive of the game TY Hilton beat 2 of our better defenders in McKinney and Joseph.
 
infantrycak said:
For the love of all that's holy, would someone please steal the WR screen out of the playbook and out in 10 RB screens?
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I watched another team last week call a screen on their 1 yard line. Dont remember who. Announcers thought nothing of it. Wtf.
 
IDEXAN said:
I dunno but don't we have some measure of hope, maybe even expectations that 2018 6th round steal, 6'6" 280 lb Jordan Thomas can be that blocking TE along with his pretty descent pair of hands ? Wasn't he originally drafted to be that blocking TE ?
Click to expand...

Yes I have hope for Thomas. He's going to be a paas catching TE that the coaches are trying to teach how to in-line block. He's got a very high upside and if he doesn't you can blame that on coaching. Why? He appears to be willing and receptive to coaching and he's got the talent.

With that said I want them to add a true blocking TE in the draft or FA. Think Dwayne Allen type guy.
 
ColeThornton said:
"Brady was an 85.9 rating QB who didn't even pull 2 to 1 TDs to INTs."

I think it had more to do with their head coach.
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It also had to do with BB having faith in Brady to lead his team from their RZ or almost RZ to FG range. BB had a chance to win a Lombardi and he went for it.

Kudos to BB
 
DocBar said:
That 7-8 upgrades. Don't ever quote stats to me again. Your math sucks.
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But if they can add 5 solid guys at those positions then they will have a much better (True Contender) I just listed the holes. Do you agree with the holes?
 
powda said:
I watched another team last week call a screen on their 1 yard line. Dont remember who. Announcers thought nothing of it. Wtf.
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WR or RB?

Kubiak was way predictable in that situation but it kept working, TE drag route clearing 12+ yds of space. He was also predictable as hell just inside the red zone and it also worked a lot, TE (or Walter) post 3 yds shy of the endzone and let them fall in.
 
infantrycak said:
WR or RB?

Kubiak was way predictable in that situation but it kept working, TE drag route clearing 12+ yds of space. He was predictable as hell just inside the red zone and it also worked a lot, TE post 3 yds shy of the endzone and let them fall in.
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It was a wr screen. I dont believe in such a call on you own 1 yard line. I dont dislike screens - just the position on the field wasnt warranted.
 
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