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Texans random thought of the day

infantrycak said:
I gave my opinion, JJ was doubled far more than 5 times. In fact, I'm confident more than 5 per quarter. I suspect there is a difference in definition going on. And I really don't feel like getting in a snit fight with Doc. Nor do O feel like rewatching that game. But glad you feel empowered to hand out homework.
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I'm not empowered to do anything.

I'm just looking to further the discussion.

I can see your not into that.
 
steelbtexan said:
Care to respond to Doc sense he put in the time to rewatch every defensive play. Or maybe you should do the same and report back to the MB what you discovered. That should make for some lively conversation.
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Considering I just rewatched every defensive snap and counted 9 DT just in the 1st half, I'll have to question the validity of Doc's post. Hell, there were DT on 2 consecutive plays with goal to go at the 2.
 
Speedy said:
Considering I just rewatched every defensive snap and counted 9 DT just in the 1st half, I'll have to question the validity of Doc's post. Hell, there were DT on 2 consecutive plays with goal to go at the 2.
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Thx,

This doesn't surprise me particularly in GL situations.

I do think that Watt isn't drawing DT's like he used too. I was with family and didn't watch the game until midway thru the 4th qtr. I forgot to DVR it so I was looking for multiple posts on this so I could draw a conclusion.

Much appreciated.
 
Speedy said:
Considering I just rewatched every defensive snap and counted 9 DT just in the 1st half, I'll have to question the validity of Doc's post. Hell, there were DT on 2 consecutive plays with goal to go at the 2.
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Even IF "definition" of double team is the difference, you are still saying that Watt was only DTed in the 1st half 25% of the time. [I did count the 2 GL stand DT]
 
Have I entered the twilight zone where solid football fans have forgotten dominant pass rushers can be schemed around and not just double teamed? Moving pockets, screens, quick hit plays (like to a dominant TE for 8), etc. That's part of game planning for a player, i.e. coaching.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Even IF "definition" of double team is the difference, you are still saying that Watt was only DTed in the 1st half 25% of the time. [I did count the 2 GL stand DT]
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Correct.

infantrycak said:
Have I entered the twilight zone where solid football fans have forgotten dominant pass rushers can be schemed around and not just double teamed? Moving pockets, screens, quick hit plays (like to a dominant TE for 8), etc. That's part of game planning for a player, i.e. coaching.
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Right as well. Several of the plays considered 1-on-1 were quick passes or runs that almost wouldn't have mattered if no one was blocking him.

And the reason Doc's numbers were probably lower is because there were "double teams" even though he never engaged with 2. Watt locks up with the tackle but can't move inside because the guard is standing right there with no one on him. That's a DT. Or Watt sheds 1 blocker and gets picked up by another. Also DT. Those do have more to do with the scheme than actually fighting off 2 guys at the same time.

And let's not forget the Eagles have a bunch of Pro-Bowlers on that line.
 
Speedy said:
Correct.



Right as well. Several of the plays considered 1-on-1 were quick passes or runs that almost wouldn't have mattered if no one was blocking him.

And the reason Doc's numbers were probably lower is because there were "double teams" even though he never engaged with 2. Watt locks up with the tackle but can't move inside because the guard is standing right there with no one on him. That's a DT. Or Watt sheds 1 blocker and gets picked up by another. Also DT. Those do have more to do with the scheme than actually fighting off 2 guys at the same time.

And let's not forget the Eagles have a bunch of Pro-Bowlers on that line.
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Thx for the conversation, in future games I will start looking at DT's like this when I'm watching Davenport to see how much scheming BOB is doing trying to help him out. If you get a chance Sunday check it out and we can discuss it.
 
JJ earned his check this season and when he stops, his contract allows us to get out of it with drop in bucket $2 m dead in 2019 and zero dead final two seasons. Another great contract by Olsen. There will be a "time after JJ Watt" though fans will scream no. At what point does team draft to accommodate that? 2020 draft IMO although a guy like Louisiana Tech's Jaylon Ferguson 6'4" 270 64 tackles 26 for loss and 17.5 sacks to go with 9 QB hurries and 2 forced fumbles with 3 passes broken up is interesting this draft. He is not a one season wonder either.
 
If Watt was being DT'd to a perceived extent.....why didn't Clowney have a bigger impact? Like I mentioned in my Game Assessment, the Eagles adjusted after the 1st half and Romeo didn't budge from his gameplan. Personally, one of the biggest moves for next season......the Texans coaches learning to implement adjustments not only after halftime but during the game as well. Yeah, that would be a pretty amazing feat.
 
Uncle Rico said:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25625058/desean-jackson-tampa-bay-buccaneers-wants-out
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Is this the Desean Jackson really the type of player we want on our team?

**************************************

Sleeping In Meetings
December 28th, 2018

Fined.

It appears Bucs malcontent wide receiver DeSean Jackson was a bit more of a disruptive force on the practice fields and the locker room of One Buc Palace than he ever was against an opposing defense while with the Bucs.

Jackson has twice in the past two months made it public (or at least his paid representatives have texted the right people working for the proper networks) that he wants the hell out of Tampa Bay.

Given that Jackson has a bum Achilles he suffered at Dallas last week and that he is still dealing with a bad thumb that has been nagging him for weeks, and that Jackson has yet to practice this week, Joe is fairly confident Jackson has already played his last game with the Bucs as the season’s final game is Sunday.

The Bucs can wash their hands of Jackson this offseason with no financial penalty.

Just before Christmas, Rick Stroud of the Tampa Bay Times wrote a piece that detailed the angst-filled days of Jackson with the Bucs. The article didn’t exactly portray Jackson as a warm and embracing teammate, despite what Bucs Bit-O-Honey-snacking, Ozark-watching, yams-eating coach Dirk Koetter professes publicly.

Stroud offered some examples of Jackson’s stunts with the Bucs last season.

*Interviews with coaches and players confirm that Jackson was fined extensively for being late to meetings and sometimes fell asleep in them. He rarely took notes.


*It got worse in the final months. Jackson refused to play catch with one of his coaches one day before practice and was told to sit out.


*Just before Christmas last year, he played cards in the locker room with his former Washington teammate, defensive tackle Chris Baker, and was late to a meeting. When told he would be fined again, Jackson erupted and kicked over a display Bucs receivers were using for a secret Santa gift exchange. He then became involved in a physical altercation with one of his coaches and had to be restrained by a teammate.

Gee, what a peach. Fighting coaches. Destroying Christmas displays. Sleeping in meetings. Rarely takes notes.

Think about the last charge. You don’t think that has anything to do with America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston not being able to connect with Jackson?

And this guy has the balls to go on national TV and throw Jameis, a true workaholic, under the bus.

Let’s think about this further: Former Bucs guard Logan Mankins, a true professional, had told Bucs officials if he returned to the Bucs in 2016, it would have been because he respected Jameis so much.

Vincent Jackson, another true pro, worshipped Jameis.

A guy with a Super Bowl ring, Clinton McDonald, another class act, Joe knows for a fact he may have been one of Jameis’ biggest supporters on the team.

But a malcontent who gets into hassles with his coaches and blows off meetings and demands trades couldn’t get on the same page as Jameis.

And Jackson was also the only receiver Jameis has ever had in the NFL (including the misplaced Calgary Stampeder Donteaa Dye and the pride of the velvet-lined lounge of the Vero Beach Ramada Inn, super crooner Freddie Martino and his band) that he had problems connecting with.

This really shouldn’t be a difficult puzzle to solve as who is the culprit here.

The sad thing is, Joe wonders what young players (Chris Godwin? Noah Spence?) Jackson and his cohort from Washington, offsides-jumping, Lightning-trolling, belly-shirt-wearing, practice-hating, kicker-heckling, tree-grinding , non-contact-football-loving, chicken-wings-grilling, playing-time-squawking, TV-cooking-star, half-sack Swaggy Baker may have poisoned in the process?

Jackson doing his best to blow up the locker room, infest the team with insubordination and destroy his young franchise quarterback may go down as the absolute worst signing this Bucs team has ever had.
 
Desean Jackson wouldnt be the first football player who wanted the hell out of a bad situation. Starts off the year on a tear with Fitzmagic .. absolutely killing it. Winston comes back into the picture and with that the decline of production from Jackson. Reports early in the year near trade deadline were that he wanted to be traded, but he sucked up for the sake of the team, they still felt they could compete yada yada yada. Ends up being a normal shitty year for the Bucs and Jackson wants out. Did he handle himself the best way possible? Absolutely not.

LOL @ the report of painting Jameis freaking Winston as some wholesome guy and player with no baggage of his own. Poor Jameis.

Would Jackson have any sway over a veteran locker room with a Gestapo type coach? I hardly doubt it. Could Jackson blow the top off the defense routinely even at his age? You bet. PLUS his hamstrings are alot stronger than most of the wideouts who play here. HIs little boo boo he's nursing right now is just a fed up with this team injury IMO. NOt advocating the attitude, but the Bucs are so dysfunctional its no wonder veterans want no piece of that franchise.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
Is this the Desean Jackson really the type of player we want on our team?

**************************************

Sleeping In Meetings
December 28th, 2018

Fined.

It appears Bucs malcontent wide receiver DeSean Jackson was a bit more of a disruptive force on the practice fields and the locker room of One Buc Palace than he ever was against an opposing defense while with the Bucs.

Jackson has twice in the past two months made it public (or at least his paid representatives have texted the right people working for the proper networks) that he wants the hell out of Tampa Bay.

Given that Jackson has a bum Achilles he suffered at Dallas last week and that he is still dealing with a bad thumb that has been nagging him for weeks, and that Jackson has yet to practice this week, Joe is fairly confident Jackson has already played his last game with the Bucs as the season’s final game is Sunday.

The Bucs can wash their hands of Jackson this offseason with no financial penalty.

Just before Christmas, Rick Stroud of the Tampa Bay Times wrote a piece that detailed the angst-filled days of Jackson with the Bucs. The article didn’t exactly portray Jackson as a warm and embracing teammate, despite what Bucs Bit-O-Honey-snacking, Ozark-watching, yams-eating coach Dirk Koetter professes publicly.

Stroud offered some examples of Jackson’s stunts with the Bucs last season.

*Interviews with coaches and players confirm that Jackson was fined extensively for being late to meetings and sometimes fell asleep in them. He rarely took notes.


*It got worse in the final months. Jackson refused to play catch with one of his coaches one day before practice and was told to sit out.


*Just before Christmas last year, he played cards in the locker room with his former Washington teammate, defensive tackle Chris Baker, and was late to a meeting. When told he would be fined again, Jackson erupted and kicked over a display Bucs receivers were using for a secret Santa gift exchange. He then became involved in a physical altercation with one of his coaches and had to be restrained by a teammate.

Gee, what a peach. Fighting coaches. Destroying Christmas displays. Sleeping in meetings. Rarely takes notes.

Think about the last charge. You don’t think that has anything to do with America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston not being able to connect with Jackson?

And this guy has the balls to go on national TV and throw Jameis, a true workaholic, under the bus.

Let’s think about this further: Former Bucs guard Logan Mankins, a true professional, had told Bucs officials if he returned to the Bucs in 2016, it would have been because he respected Jameis so much.

Vincent Jackson, another true pro, worshipped Jameis.

A guy with a Super Bowl ring, Clinton McDonald, another class act, Joe knows for a fact he may have been one of Jameis’ biggest supporters on the team.

But a malcontent who gets into hassles with his coaches and blows off meetings and demands trades couldn’t get on the same page as Jameis.

And Jackson was also the only receiver Jameis has ever had in the NFL (including the misplaced Calgary Stampeder Donteaa Dye and the pride of the velvet-lined lounge of the Vero Beach Ramada Inn, super crooner Freddie Martino and his band) that he had problems connecting with.

This really shouldn’t be a difficult puzzle to solve as who is the culprit here.

The sad thing is, Joe wonders what young players (Chris Godwin? Noah Spence?) Jackson and his cohort from Washington, offsides-jumping, Lightning-trolling, belly-shirt-wearing, practice-hating, kicker-heckling, tree-grinding , non-contact-football-loving, chicken-wings-grilling, playing-time-squawking, TV-cooking-star, half-sack Swaggy Baker may have poisoned in the process?

Jackson doing his best to blow up the locker room, infest the team with insubordination and destroy his young franchise quarterback may go down as the absolute worst signing this Bucs team has ever had.
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Yea I have a hard time taking any article slurping on Jameis' you know what this much seriously
 
infantrycak said:
I still expect JJ to pull a Bob Lilly, 1st time he has a healthy non pro bowl season he'll retire.
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Agree and I'm hopeful Gaine will have plan for that day and same for Clowney. I'm hoping we can get 2 OTs and 2 CBs first three rounds then use 2020 rounds one and two to address those vets. Getting two more seasons like 2018 from Watt & Clowney would be awesome.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
If Watt was being DT'd to a perceived extent.....why didn't Clowney have a bigger impact? Like I mentioned in my Game Assessment, the Eagles adjusted after the 1st half and Romeo didn't budge from his gameplan. Personally, one of the biggest moves for next season......the Texans coaches learning to implement adjustments not only after halftime but during the game as well. Yeah, that would be a pretty amazing feat.
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Just 2 cents but Watt combines football skills with football intelligence. Clowney has only the former.
 
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badboy said:
Just 2 cents but Watt combines football skills with football intelligence. Clooney has only the former.
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He looks intelligent to me.
6e33f4a31f089c2971777797207689ab.jpg
 
Uncle Rico said:
Desean Jackson wouldnt be the first football player who wanted the hell out of a bad situation. Starts off the year on a tear with Fitzmagic .. absolutely killing it. Winston comes back into the picture and with that the decline of production from Jackson. Reports early in the year near trade deadline were that he wanted to be traded, but he sucked up for the sake of the team, they still felt they could compete yada yada yada. Ends up being a normal shitty year for the Bucs and Jackson wants out. Did he handle himself the best way possible? Absolutely not.

LOL @ the report of painting Jameis freaking Winston as some wholesome guy and player with no baggage of his own. Poor Jameis.

Would Jackson have any sway over a veteran locker room with a Gestapo type coach? I hardly doubt it. Could Jackson blow the top off the defense routinely even at his age? You bet. PLUS his hamstrings are alot stronger than most of the wideouts who play here. HIs little boo boo he's nursing right now is just a fed up with this team injury IMO. NOt advocating the attitude, but the Bucs are so dysfunctional its no wonder veterans want no piece of that franchise.
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Beat me to it! I read that article before Doc posted and snickered. Not saying Jackson handled himself as I would have told him to but come on. TB going nowhere and seemingly have not much of a plan.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
If Watt was being DT'd to a perceived extent.....why didn't Clowney have a bigger impact? Like I mentioned in my Game Assessment, the Eagles adjusted after the 1st half and Romeo didn't budge from his gameplan. Personally, one of the biggest moves for next season......the Texans coaches learning to implement adjustments not only after halftime but during the game as well. Yeah, that would be a pretty amazing feat.
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Agreed 100. This is one of the main reasons why I pounded over and over that it's coaching.
 
badboy said:
Just 2 cents but Watt combines football skills with football intelligence. Clowney has only the former.
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With all due respects to Clowney and Watt, in their quest for rushing and getting to the passer, neither has shown any interest in maintaining containment..........and both many times take themselves out of the play to rush the quarterback, thereby too often allowing runs inside right past them. Freelancing, with the other D not knowing where Clowney and/or Watt are going to be from play to play, further adds confusion to the mix.
 
Which is odd since both are considered great run stuffers and have lots of TFL. Both have off the chart pursuit as well. And containment generally means keeping the play inside. Picking them up inside is what ILBs are for.

Also, as to getting run out wide, he also gets back to where he is near the top of the league in sacks & hits. Coming in from the back instead of front is helping with the 6 FFs as well.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
With all due respects to Clowney and Watt, in their quest for rushing and getting to the passer, neither has shown any interest in maintaining containment..........and both many times take themselves out of the play to rush the quarterback, thereby too often allowing runs inside right past them. Freelancing, with the other D not knowing where Clowney and/or Watt are going to be from play to play, further adds confusion to the mix.
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Interest? Some of the hindsight I just can’t get on board with. We run a 3-4 so I would have zero concern with our edge rushers and containment if we had better LB and secondary play but if you’re our DC do you REALLY forgo Watt and JDC rushing up and instead let them contain? Maybe you play call the containment per the situation (so put that on RC) otherwise you let arguably the two best rushers in the game do their thing.
 
Texazan said:
Interest? Some of the hindsight I just can’t get on board with. We run a 3-4 so I would have zero concern with our edge rushers and containment if we had better LB and secondary play but if you’re our DC do you REALLY forgo Watt and JDC rushing up and instead let them contain? Maybe you play call the containment per the situation (so put that on RC) otherwise you let arguably the two best rushers in the game do their thing.
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Not saying I disagree with what they are doing. But probably 30% of the time they stand Clowney up inside and line Watt up in a Philly wide 9 defense. This doesn't lead to a good run defense because of alignment and Watt is encouraged to freelance in an effort to get to the QB. There's a natural running lane that opens up when they're in this defense. Also on most pass rush situations they rush atleast 4 and sometimes 5. Once contain is broken big runs are a given. It's a trade off for getting a better pass rush. The old Watt could beat most tackles 1 on 1 and sometimes split double teams. This is an adjustment they've made in how they are using Watt.
 
The Texans have averaged 66 rushing yds the past 3 games with Watson gaining 110 of their 198 total rushing yds. Miller, Blue and Foreman have combined for 80 yds on 43 carries during that span for an average of 1.86 yards per run. Miller, who is being counted on this game, only managed 2.4 yds/carry in the 2 games leading up to his ankle injury.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
The Texans have averaged 66 rushing yds the past three games with Watson gaining 110 of their 198 total rushing yds. Miller, Blue and Foreman have combined for 80 yds on 43 carries during that span for an average of 1.86 yards per run. Miller, who is being counted on this game, only managed 2.4 yds/carry in the games leading up to his ankle injury.
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I think we can now difinitively say the OL sucks, for all of those that said give the OL a chance/they need to jell etc....
 
steelbtexan said:
I think we can now difinitively say the OL sucks, for all of those that said give the OL a chance/they need to jell etc....
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It's too bad the coaching staff hasn't realized this. We might as well just forfeit the rest of the year because there is nothing an offensive coordinator can do to compensate and nullify a poor producing unit.

Oh well there's always next year :kitten:
 
Uncle Rico said:
It's too bad the coaching staff hasn't realized this. We might as well just forfeit the rest of the year because there is nothing an offensive coordinator can do to compensate and nullify a poor producing unit.

Oh well there's always next year :kitten:
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They've been doing this the entire yr.

Nice try to deflect the truth.
 
steelbtexan said:
They've been doing this the entire yr.

Nice try to deflect the truth.
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Lol what do you mean? Cmon my dude it's too early for shadowy comments I'm just having some fun.

There are more things they can do other than keep a poor blocking TE at home to block right? Maybe Ive missed these pocket moving, quick throwing, schematic adjustments to the poor offensive line.

All I see is Ryan Griffin blowing blocking assignment after blocking assignment.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
If Watt was being DT'd to a perceived extent.....why didn't Clowney have a bigger impact? Like I mentioned in my Game Assessment, the Eagles adjusted after the 1st half and Romeo didn't budge from his gameplan. Personally, one of the biggest moves for next season......the Texans coaches learning to implement adjustments not only after halftime but during the game as well. Yeah, that would be a pretty amazing feat.
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This is why we need a guy like Antonio Smith whup'nass in the middle. With 5 linemen, plus a TE, or RB an offensive line can double team both ends. We need our inside rushers to be able to beat one on one assignments
 
infantrycak said:
Which is odd since both are considered great run stuffers and have lots of TFL. Both have off the chart pursuit as well. And containment generally means keeping the play inside. Picking them up inside is what ILBs are for.
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I think it's about their presnap read. They're thinking pass all the way when they get run out of a play & open a run lane.

When they are thinking run, or run/pass, they can't be run on.
 
I know, I know its JAX but IIRC we had ONE penalty yesterday, on Miller for the false start AND NO PENALTIES ON JDC or the OL (I think that's correct)
 
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An o-line that gets their QB sacked a gojillion times, a run game inconsistent at best, practice squad WRs, 5th worst team in the red zone, yet they scored the 2nd most points in team history.

Also fewest turnovers in team history.
 
Speedy said:
An o-line that gets their QB sacked a gojillion times, a run game inconsistent at best, practice squad WRs, 5th worst team in the red zone, yet they scored the 2nd most points in team history.

Also fewest turnovers in team history.
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It's not coincidental that these stats lead to the 2nd most successful season in franchise history.

Hard to believe with this OL BOB did better than Kubiak at putting points on the board. Imagine what can happen when the OL gets fixed and another WR with speed is added.
 
steelbtexan said:
It's not coincidental that these stats lead to the 2nd most successful season in franchise history.

Hard to believe with this OL BOB did better than Kubiak at putting points on the board. Imagine what can happen when the OL gets fixed and another WR with speed is added.
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If we can keep Fuller on the field we will have a very dangerous offense. Add Coutee into the mix and the playbook is wide open. (Assuming a decent running game of course).
 
Lol @ Buttchin still getting the emperor's treatment.

85% of this season is on Watson/Hopkins/Miller .. 10% on the defense .. 5% on coaching.

Hey Herr OBrien guys instead of making stupid aas blanket statements like "Durr Durr Bob did such a great job this is all on him" .. how about some examples to his game winning philosophy, game theory and contributions to winning games. This **** is old already this blind following and anecdotal ****. I've pumped the brakes a bunch but a few of you are just out of your ever loving minds.
 
infantrycak said:
The 2012 Texans had more (14) pts.
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Which kinda proves my point.

They had almost the best scoring offense in franchise history (Minus a couple of TD's) with this OL. BOB did a great job after taking this into consideration. Fix the OL and add a WR and even better offenses are in the future. I mean the offense was this good with Davenport/Lamm at OT.

Can you imagine how good this offense would be with competent OT's certainly they would score more than the 14 pts that separate them from the best offense in franchise history.

What your post tells me is some will never be happy with BOB regardless of how good the team is and particularly the offense.
 
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