Let me say he would bring in a proven winner as GM. You usually have to pay top $$$$ for those type of guys.
McCloughin come to mind.
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All encompassing Bill O'Brien thread
- Thread starter False Start
- Start date
Let me say he would bring in a proven winner as GM. You usually have to pay top $$$$ for those type of guys.
McCloughin come to mind.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Generally speaking I agree with your assessment of rick smith. We have a better then average 1st round pick history. A few undrafted free agent acquisitions we nailed. Our 2nd round to 4th round draft history is absolutely atrocious.
I searched rick Smith's salary surfing 5-6 articles and never did get a number. Do you have a link suggesting we spend less on a gm or scouts?
You cant win a championship with a GM with that type of draft/FA record.
I dont know the $$$$ that McNair is wasting on Lil Ricky, but to get a top GM you've got to spend big $$$$. You cant go cheap and bring in another rookie GM who some say is still learning on the job after over a decade.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I saw something similar 6-8 years ago. We were in the top 10 or better in this regard (non player team salaries including scouts.) I can't find anything current.
Salaries don't indicate competence, just the owners desire. If someone else can find something recent I'm all ears.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I agree, and for all the **** you catch here from other posters me and you are mostly eye to eye on rick smith. I just don't see a rick smith salary comparison (or scout comparison) to other teams. I'd be very curious to see how we measure up.
I don't think money has anything to do with it. He has never stinted on spending money if he thought it would help him win, he over paid for Casserly, Bosselli, Reed and others. He obviously doesn't see Ricky in the same light that we do, but lack of change has nothing to do with $$$$$
MeatBear77
Rookie
Hope this isn't gwan be considered a "troll" because it ain't n i just wanted income right 2 the source n find out 4 my fellow fans from the best ppl to hear it from, u guys, best NFL fans in the internet.
Bears r gwan fire John Fox after the last game of the season and now I'm hearing u guys might can Obrain, so logically bears fans want to get bill to replace fox. Is that a good idea?
Heard he is good with offense and QB, and that's exactly what we need up here so that' a plus, but then agains, u guys have a lot more talent then us bears so ppl r saying bill o b isn't doing CHIT with that calibre of talent.
So give me truth and honesty, a lot of fans would b interesting to know what ur take is.
Thx
Bears r gwan fire John Fox after the last game of the season and now I'm hearing u guys might can Obrain, so logically bears fans want to get bill to replace fox. Is that a good idea?
Heard he is good with offense and QB, and that's exactly what we need up here so that' a plus, but then agains, u guys have a lot more talent then us bears so ppl r saying bill o b isn't doing CHIT with that calibre of talent.
So give me truth and honesty, a lot of fans would b interesting to know what ur take is.
Thx
MeatBear77
Rookie
Hey why did this get moved? That's some bs!
Was it intentional? I didn't think anyone could read that post, far less understand it to move it.
OzzO
.. and then?
Nothing new.... other than coming from the Chronic
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spo...m_source=CMS Sharing Button&utm_medium=social
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spo...m_source=CMS Sharing Button&utm_medium=social
This is depressing. BOTH need to go.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...iring-could-be-imminent-amid-texans-struggles
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...iring-could-be-imminent-amid-texans-struggles
If the Pace can get BOB the talent he needs then the Bears will be challenging the Vikings/Packers in a couple of yrs.
MeatBear77
Rookie
Flyingfish
Waterboy
If BOB leaves the Texans it will because he can no longer tolerate having to bring Rick's ducks to the chicken fight.
Dion Dawkins is looking pretty good at LT for the Bills this season.
Jason Spriggs
Just off of the top of my head.
Texansballer74
The Marine
And we had a realistic chance at getting them? And at what cost?
And how do you know if they would'v fit our scheme?
B ecause BOB's too mean to the Godfather of McNair's grandchild. Lil Ricky Smith-McNair.
a late 2nd rd pick and Ricky chose Cunningham over Dawkins. Dawkins would be the best OL on this team. Big/athletic/plays with a meanstreak. Many in the draft section wanted Dawkins in the 1st rd.
BTW, both of the guys I listed can play in any scheme. IMHO
I cant believe you're using the scheme thing as a way to justify Ricky not picking talented Ol men.
Porky
Hall of Fame
I was in the definitely bring BOB back at least one more year next year because of the obvious chemistry he had with Watson. But today was such a train wreck. I'm now in the undecided camp. Let's see if the team quits on him, because the first half today as abysmal.
Either way, the real problem is Rick Smith. If you fire BOB, please fire RS for crying out loud! As someone pointed out. Rick has killed it in the first round so he gets some credit there. Watt, Watson, et al. He's also come up with some UDFA's that have been amazing, the latest was Bouye. I realize that he is taking some advice from coaches and scouts, but those still go on the GM's ledger - so credit given on those.
But the 2nd - 4th rounds have been a train wreck, and that in turn has hurt the depth terribly. This team has first round stars, but they were holding up the entire team with nothing behind them. We lost a few of those guys and we didn't just go to average, it turned into complete crap. Between that and the offensive line situation, the mishandling of the DBrown situation, the signing of Brock O. and the AJ Bouye mistake - Smith ought to be let go.
Some good in there yes, but just too much bad and the fact of the matter is this team has been mediocre for virtually his entire tenure. So to me, changing the coach is a little like changing the janitor on the titanic. The captain is RS and he's steering the ship into the iceburg.
With all that said, Watson is a game changer. IF he can stay healthy, that covers a whole lot of crappy decisions.
Either way, the real problem is Rick Smith. If you fire BOB, please fire RS for crying out loud! As someone pointed out. Rick has killed it in the first round so he gets some credit there. Watt, Watson, et al. He's also come up with some UDFA's that have been amazing, the latest was Bouye. I realize that he is taking some advice from coaches and scouts, but those still go on the GM's ledger - so credit given on those.
But the 2nd - 4th rounds have been a train wreck, and that in turn has hurt the depth terribly. This team has first round stars, but they were holding up the entire team with nothing behind them. We lost a few of those guys and we didn't just go to average, it turned into complete crap. Between that and the offensive line situation, the mishandling of the DBrown situation, the signing of Brock O. and the AJ Bouye mistake - Smith ought to be let go.
Some good in there yes, but just too much bad and the fact of the matter is this team has been mediocre for virtually his entire tenure. So to me, changing the coach is a little like changing the janitor on the titanic. The captain is RS and he's steering the ship into the iceburg.
With all that said, Watson is a game changer. IF he can stay healthy, that covers a whole lot of crappy decisions.
Texan in Japan
Rookie
How about we trade BOB to Clev for our 2nd round pick?
Yep, it's time.
Mike
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
In response to the argument that O'Brien should get a pass this season due to player injuries, I'll refer to what Eagles coach Doug Pederson told the press after receiving confirmation that Carson Wentz tore his ACL:
Link
So Houston lost Deshaun Watson? The Eagles scored 34 points today without Wentz.
We didn't have Duane Brown this season? The Eagles lost their LT too.
We lost Watt? Our defense was dominant last year without him.
Rick Smith deserves criticism for his neglect of the O-line, but O'Brien's faults have manifested in recurring patterns every season and are not going to change. Bringing him back in 2018 for a lame duck season delays the inevitable. If Rick Smith is part of the problem, that should be dealt with later, but black Monday is a week away and we need to initiate the new head coach acquisition.
Link
So Houston lost Deshaun Watson? The Eagles scored 34 points today without Wentz.
We didn't have Duane Brown this season? The Eagles lost their LT too.
We lost Watt? Our defense was dominant last year without him.
Rick Smith deserves criticism for his neglect of the O-line, but O'Brien's faults have manifested in recurring patterns every season and are not going to change. Bringing him back in 2018 for a lame duck season delays the inevitable. If Rick Smith is part of the problem, that should be dealt with later, but black Monday is a week away and we need to initiate the new head coach acquisition.
The lack of depth was a self inflicted wound.
All the trading away of picks and free agent overpays finally came to haunt the Texans
It would be entirely predicable by a smart front office
Most of the picks traded were mid round that woulda been blown anywho
Not sure what you are saying here
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
BTW, I want to go on record right now in predicting that O'Brien is fired January 2nd, and Crennel is named HC on January 3rd.
banned1976
sleeper mode
The cure for ODS (O'Brien Derangement Syndrome):
Fire O'Brien and bring in Jeff Fisher as HC.
Anyway, the Texans all time record is 110-143. Given that historical fact, whoever is brought in to replace OB, McNair will ensure that that HC will either be inexperienced and/or a yes man and/or a buffoon who will parrot the same lines during a press conference. Something to the affect of "it's on me" or "I need to coach better". In the end the Texans will only be replacing signature lines. Stability and familiarity be damned with the players be damned, O'Brien will be fired.
The end.
Fire O'Brien and bring in Jeff Fisher as HC.
Anyway, the Texans all time record is 110-143. Given that historical fact, whoever is brought in to replace OB, McNair will ensure that that HC will either be inexperienced and/or a yes man and/or a buffoon who will parrot the same lines during a press conference. Something to the affect of "it's on me" or "I need to coach better". In the end the Texans will only be replacing signature lines. Stability and familiarity be damned with the players be damned, O'Brien will be fired.
The end.
banned1976
sleeper mode
Is that what you want to happen or just your prediction?
Either way, Crennel currently sits as the Assistant Head Coach. That said, I don't know why McNair should fire O'Brien for this disaster of a season and promote OB's right hand man. If he does that...I wouldn't know what to say. It would be such a nonsensical decision that yeah, now I see it. Yeah, that is something McNair would do.
banned1976
sleeper mode
One thing not touched on (I don't think) in this thread is O'Brien may force McNair's hand. He may want out of here and the fastest track to that is demanding a contract extension. Jason La Confora wrote that "the relationship between the men [GM Rick Smith and HC Bill O'Brien] has long been complicated". That doesn't sound right to me and one in which O'Brien wouldn't be comfortable with. I once worked as a Supply Chain Quality Engineering Manager. That would be like me having a complicated relationship with the Supply Chain Manager. There was no ambiguity within our working partnership. We understood our roles. It was made very clear. Of course the SCM wasn't best friends with our bosses son either.
How would bringing in a new HC change that "complicated relationship with the GM"? Does it matter?
adama51
Walk-on
Same thing the Giants did with firing Coughlin and promoting the OC Mcadoo. If you want to establish a new culture you should bring in a new face.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
(Put this in the game day thread but it should have gone here):
Some folks are fooling themselves that what they saw with Watson/OB for 6 games would be what you'd see long term. You wouldn't. What you saw was an emergency scramble for a college playbook (or more accurately turning to those pages in E-P which had been virtually ripped out) because of ill preparation due to epic bad judgment. With time and the opportunity to coach Watson up in "the system" things would most likely change/revert.
Watson should work with a coach who from day one sees him as an asset to be honed & built around not a problem to be molded.
Some folks are fooling themselves that what they saw with Watson/OB for 6 games would be what you'd see long term. You wouldn't. What you saw was an emergency scramble for a college playbook (or more accurately turning to those pages in E-P which had been virtually ripped out) because of ill preparation due to epic bad judgment. With time and the opportunity to coach Watson up in "the system" things would most likely change/revert.
Watson should work with a coach who from day one sees him as an asset to be honed & built around not a problem to be molded.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Well you've pretty much condemned any potential HC. Is anyone acceptable? It was this really just a source grapes on anything McNair chooses post?
banned1976
sleeper mode
Until they make changes to the Executive Management team, yes, I'll condemn any HC to at best mediocrity. Replace Smith and bring in a separate Executive VP of Football Ops. Let the new GM and VP of Football Ops find a new HC, if that's what they feel will move this team forward.
I don't dislike McNair even though I thought he made a mistake in his phrasing at the owners meeting that led to the leak about inmates, possibly tarnishing the image of the Texans org. But I know he wants a winner here. He has pride and yesterday, I'm sure, embarrassed the hell out of him. I don't dislike Smith as a person, the record since he's been here has basically been average. Depth is a problem, he botched the o-line situation...badly.
IMHO, changes to the Management team need to occur (early 2018) before O'Brien is fired.
But this is all fantasy on my part. O'Brien will be fired and Smith will be the Executive VP of Football Operations and GM long after O'Brien has retired from football.
I have no idea what's gonna happen, but I appreciate your candor B_C. No equivocating with you man, you couldn't be much more specific. Oh but wait, who's gonna be the Texzans GM in 2018 ?
So if I read you correctly, are you are saying that Watsons steller performance in 2017 was a fluke ?
This is your belief and we will never know.
What we do know is Watson looked great earlier this yr with BOB as HC/OC.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You read that backwards. Watson's excellence gave OB a fluke mirage of competency.
To be determined. OB lays two more eggs probably not.
Great Post
Sad part is we can expect more mediocrity at best.
I disagree with McNair wants to win. Sure he wants to win but that's not what's most important to him or he would have cleaned house in 2010.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Great proof given they went on to win the next 2 years (and had the prior).
BOB wanted out after last season, so this is going to happen.
Bringing in a new HC isn't going to change anything. Especially RAC, have you looked at his record as a HC and what is he now 70 yrs old?
Hiring RAC would be a very Bob/Ricky McNair move.
Not going to relive the past, but we have very different definitions of the term winner.
So Watson is so good, even in the first few weeks of his NFL career, he was able to overcome a dud of a HC and excel on the field. Well I like that better, that's encouraging.
So maybe Watson's college coach was right. Watson really is Michael Jordan, or the NFL version of same.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I don't agree with the traditional hierarchy in the modern NFL. Uninvolved owner, overlord GM and do what you can with what you're given HC is from the days when HC's and GM's careers were measured I'm decades not 4 or 5 year contracts.
IMO coaches best know what players they can work with either on system or temperament. The GM should be there to oversee scouting, manage the cap and be the parent who says 'that toy is too expensive' to the HC kid in the candy store whether the cost is picks or contract. In other words, within cap/pick management limits the HC should have sway over the groceries he works with. Then if he doesn't get it done, he's gone and a new chef comes in.
I think the Texans have been in between. That appears to have led to some behind the scenes wrangling between HC & GM. It certainly has led to a lack of clarity for fans.
Well slow the roll a little. Unprepared QBs have done well under OB. Keenum, Yates & Weedon were 5-0 as emergency starters. The less inculcated in "the system" the better.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
It's not a subjective issue. 10-6 & 12-4 are winning seasons.
Were they contenders to win a SB?
Texansballer74
The Marine
Man please. These players have to fit our scheme 1st. 2nd coaching will have to coach them up. This is an area that we have failed miserably since Bill O'Brien has been here. 3rdly we needed a cover type LB who will eventually replace Cushing.
Again for the thousandth time Rick wasn't the only one selecting these players we drafted . Bill O'Brien is on record saying it's a collaborative decision between all parties.
But hey this is just another one of your ways to put everything on Rick Smith.
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1st you cant coach up talent that isn't there.
2nd the cover type LB you are talking about is Dylan Cole, an UDFA. Point is it's much easier to find a cover LB like Cunningham later in the draft. It's not as easy to find a rookie starting LT later in the draft. I actually like Cunningham, but this is about roster building and a LT is much more valuable than a LB like Cunningham is.
3rd. BOB's own words are Ricky gets the talent in the draft/FA, he just coaches them. You dont believe BOB, I do. Now there's probably an offseason discussion between BOB/Ricky that goes something like this BOB says we need more team speed, Ricky picks Fuller/signs Miller in FA.
4th I dont have to attempt to put anything on Ricky, he's the VP of football operations/GM of a 4-10 football org.
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Porky
Hall of Fame
Interesting point Cak. I can definetely be persuaded that BOB has to go, but my only point is that I think the baby needs to be be thrown out with the bath water. Refilling the same old tub with new water? I don't know if it works. Maybe, but I'd like RS to be replaced.