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All encompassing Bill O'Brien thread

One thing is certain, the Jaguars have the #1 pass defense in the league and the #2 overall team defense. And barring any career ending injuries to that secondary they will be a force to be reckoned with for years. So whether you agree or disagree with the Texans decision to not retain Bouye, the Texans will have to deal with him and that defense twice a year. Meanwhile, the Texans defense is getting old and injury riddled. If they want to compete with the Jags they're going to have to make big changes on defense.

I know I've written this before but this time it REALLY means something - Rick Smith has his work cut out for him. You could bring back Lombardi or move Billichick here but it won't matter if Rick Smith doesn't get better at doing HIS job.
 
The Texans have had roster changes, scheme changes and coaching changes over the past 11 years. The end result is that the players and product on the field have been suspect for the majority of the time, NOT ready for prime-time games.

What the Texans have not had in the past 11 years is a serious revamping of the front office, how it evaluates talent, how it values talent and who is in charge of talent acquisition. Same person, Rick Smith, has stayed in charge. The end result of NOT making a change in the front office fits hand in glove with the suspect players and product on the field.

The Texan front office is the definition of insanity - "Continually doing the same thing, expecting different results." Time to end the insanity and either fire Rick Smith and his crew, or promote Rick to some other facet of the McNair fortune away from the Texans and put a real football person in charge and let them revamp this mess.
 
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Flyingfish said:
The Texans have had roster changes, scheme changes and coaching changes over the past 11 years. The end result is that the players and product on the field have been suspect for the majority of the time, NOT ready for prime-time games.

What the Texans have not had in the past 11 years is a serious revamping of the front office, how it evaluates talent, how it values talent and who is in charge of talent acquisition. Same person, Rick Smith, has stayed in charge. The end result of NOT making a change in the front office fits hand in glove with the suspect players and product on the field.

The Texan front office is the definition of insanity - "Continually doing the same thing, expecting different results." Time to end the insanity and either fire Rick Smith and his crew, or promote Rick to some other facet of the McNair fortune away from the Texans and put a real football person in charge and let them revamp this mess.
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The players on defense looked fine last year, and our offense under Watson was decent with the exception of the O-line. The problem this year has been Vrabel's learning curve and O'Brien's bad decisions. I give a pass to the former.

And I'm not picking on you when I say this, but I really have to make this public service announcement:

The definition of "insanity" is NOT "to do the same thing expecting different results." That is a myth. The dictionary nor Einstein said it; Some anonymous language-terrorist made it up.

The actual definition is "To be in a state of mental illness." I ask you all to please stop the "insanity" and never use this awful cliche' again.
 
infantrycak said:
Not always. The NFL is rife with overpaid, underperforming FAs.
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DocBar said:
You make a competitive offer and stand yo0ur ground. AJ moved on and has had a good season. Not the end of the world.
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disclaimer: requires good evaluation skills and if warranted (Bouye was ascending, proven talent with ideal measureables for position) you make a better offer than your divisional foe or any other NFL team for that matter. The cap is not hard or unbendable matter. ​
 
infantrycak said:
Not always. The NFL is rife with overpaid, underperforming FAs.
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In this case, the Texans were not chasing an unknown commodity in Bouye. They developed him and most importantly, got to gauge his growth through the entire 2016 off-season process and season. If they felt he had taken substantial steps in progress...then find out what it's going to get him extended during or signed after the season.

I was one of those guys who said the numbers being tossed around during FA were crazy, which goes back to taking the initiative in trying to get him extended before seasons end...otherwise your competing with other GM's for his services, and we all know that's when smart guys start getting real stupid....money wise.
 
beerlover said:
disclaimer: requires good evaluation skills and if warranted (Bouye was ascending, proven talent with ideal measureables for position) you make a better offer than your divisional foe or any other NFL team for that matter. The cap is not hard or unbendable matter. ​
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If Bouye had more than 1 year playing at that level, I agree. With only the one season playing at that level, I disagree. Completely agree with the required evaluation skills.
 
from ESPN: Best and worst potential NFL head coach openings in 2018

1. Houston Texans

… the Browns would have just taken Deshaun Watson. Instead, if Bill O’Brien’s job becomes available this offseason, the opportunity to work with a franchise quarterback with four cost-controlled years remaining on his deal is the most enticing opportunity to come along in a long, long time. Watson played only seven games, but he led the league in yards per attempt (8.3) and Total QBR (81.5) before tearing his ACL.

It’s one thing for McVay to inherit Goff, who struggled mightily as a rookie. When was the last time a coach joined a team with a quarterback who has already looked as good as Watson and was still on his rookie deal? Derek Carr had a middling rookie season before Jack Del Rio arrived. Kirk Cousins didn’t cut out the interceptions until after Jay Gruden took over. The only other active example I can think of that comes close would be Mike Mularkey inheriting Marcus Mariota, and even he was an interim coach who kept his job.

On top of that, this is a top-level core capable of competing with anyone else in the league when guys are healthy. Mix Watson with a top-five wideout in DeAndre Hopkins and two superstar edge rushers in J.J. Watt and Jadeveon Clowney and the Texans have a set of building blocks that 25 or so teams would probably prefer to their own. Even their second tier of talent — players such as Whitney Mercilus, Will Fuller and Kareem Jackson — is impressive. Their biggest weakness is on special teams, which would be fixable by swapping out the specialists and focusing mid-round picks for a year or two on improving their coverage.

Things aren’t perfect. The Texans are down their top two picks in the 2018 draft after moving up for Watson. Injuries have ripped apart the roster, and there’s no guarantee that they’ll ever have their core healthy at the same time. Houston needs a new set of offensive tackles and doesn’t have much on the interior of its defensive line. No job is perfect, though, and Houston’s is as appealing as an opening gets.
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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21759278/ranking-best-nfl-potential-head-coach-openings-2018
 
steelbtexan said:
The OL/DB's stinking?

Watson getting hurt behind this OL.

BOB being gone after this year.

What more do you want.
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Watson got hurt in practice, no contact.

Man stop it lol

BOB being gone will be solely his fault.

Again for thousandth time, they addressed the oline unfortunately it didn't pan out for several reasons. That's not on Smith.
 
adama51 said:
And that is a legit concern, I was on both sides of the fence in terms of signing Romo and maybe it was one of your arguments that got me to rethink it. Yet and still, RS still wanted to make a move on him. We were talking about why we didn't keep Bouye along with other young talent and I was just giving an example as to why RS didn't want to play hardball with the Jags.
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Rick, O'Brien and McNair wanted Romo not just Smith.
 
beerlover said:
Don’t think it’s a stretch to say Bouye was Texans best CB in 2016 and better than First Round, injury prone, Kevin Johnson. That’s not hindsight, it’s fact. Hindsight is more like not resigning the guy despite those facts :hankpalm:
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They already paid JoJo and KJ. Kevin was their pick in the first round. He played solid before the injuries. They also offered Bouye a healthy extension as well. The Jags offered a little more and the rest is history. But they still thought they were good to go because Kevin was coming back healthy. JJ was back on the field with Mercilus leading the team in sacks the year before and Clowney living up to his potential. Hall had a solid year that year as well right. Therefore, the mindset going into this season was that of a top 3 defense. Even all of us were raven about how this defense will still be top dawg in the NFL. Unfortunately, Mr. Injury Bug struck hard and often. Quickly took down both Mercilus and Watt. After that the domino's effect started on both sides of the ball. D. Brown's hold out was huge to our depleted offensive line. Who knew he was going to pull that trash anyways? That's right nobody but Brown and his wife knew.

But hey it's all on Rick Smith.
 
adama51 said:
if we're being honest I did too. But I wasn't tryin to make the point of who wanted him, just the point of why we didn't want to spend on Bouye at that moment because we were saving cap to get Romo
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They still offered him a nice contract though. Even though they should've gave him that and what they gave Prosch.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Watson got hurt in practice, no contact.

Man stop it lol

BOB being gone will be solely his fault.

Again for thousandth time, they addressed the oline unfortunately it didn't pan out for several reasons. That's not on Smith.
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Watson hurt his knee in the Seahawk game. CnD put up a video of the play he got hurt on.

BOB will be gone one way or the other just as I predicted before hand.

The OL didn't work out because Smith cant judge OL talent. He signed Breno as an answer at RT for god sake. If things dont pan out it's not on Ricky? Do tell, please let me know who it's on so I can direct my thoughts there.
 
Texansballer74 said:
No it wasn't. He took over that duty way before Godsey got run out of town.
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This offseason the OC position was forced on BOB.

All part of Ricky's plan to get rid of BOB.

1. Force the OC position on BOB.
2. Ricky didn't fix the OL
3. Ricky told BOB it was a bad idea to start Watson.

Remember I want them all gone. But there's definitely a pattern here.
 
Texansballer74 said:
They already paid JoJo and KJ. Kevin was their pick in the first round. He played solid before the injuries. They also offered Bouye a healthy extension as well. The Jags offered a little more and the rest is history. But they still thought they were good to go because Kevin was coming back healthy. JJ was back on the field with Mercilus leading the team in sacks the year before and Clowney living up to his potential. Hall had a solid year that year as well right. Therefore, the mindset going into this season was that of a top 3 defense. Even all of us were raven about how this defense will still be top dawg in the NFL. Unfortunately, Mr. Injury Bug struck hard and often. Quickly took down both Mercilus and Watt. After that the domino's effect started on both sides of the ball. D. Brown's hold out was huge to our depleted offensive line. Who knew he was going to pull that trash anyways? That's right nobody but Brown and his wife knew.

But hey it's all on Rick Smith.
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If this was the plan Ricky's an idiot.

KJO has been hurt every yr he's been in the NFL.

Watt will never be the same.

OL = neglected even with Brown.

Watson almost saved Ricky from looking incompetent.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Watson got hurt in practice, no contact.

Man stop it lol

BOB being gone will be solely his fault.

Again for thousandth time, they addressed the oline unfortunately it didn't pan out for several reasons. That's not on Smith.
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No, that's 100% on RS. He's responsible for assembling the talent seen on the field. Exactly what did he see his OL do last season that gave him all the warm and fuzzies going into this season? I'm sure he had to fight several teams to obtain the services Giancomini. The only reason Su'a-Filo even remotely looked like a different LG was due to the return of Brown...RS probably didn't like that (for potential contract ramifications in FA) and shipped Brown off to Seattle. No, this OL is a mess and it's RS's fault unless he wants to shift some of the blame onto O'Brien's shoulders.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
No, that's 100% on RS. He's responsible for assembling the talent seen on the field. Exactly what did he see his OL do last season that gave him all the warm and fuzzies going into this season? I'm sure he had to fight several teams to obtain the services Giancomini. The only reason Su'a-Filo even remotely looked like a different LG was due to the return of Brown...RS probably didn't like that (for potential contract ramifications in FA) and shipped Brown off to Seattle. No, this OL is a mess and it's RS's fault unless he wants to shift some of the blame onto O'Brien's shoulders.
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Wrong. Rick goes out and get the players who him and the coach thinks will fit their scheme. And dude FA was very weak this past year for offensive linemen. The only few good ones resigned with their team.

Brown was shipped to Seattle for other reasons and you know this. Brown's comment towards his boss was the final straw. That had nothing to do with Rick Smith.

Yall continue to act as if Rick is going about this all by himself. Forget what O'Brien has said for three straight years.
 
DocBar said:
You make a competitive offer and stand yo0ur ground. AJ moved on and has had a good season. Not the end of the world.
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People seem to (conveniently) forget we made Bouye an offer for a contract extension before his initial contract was up. Their top offer was for $60 mil over five years with $22 mil guaranteed. His agent convinced him to test the mkt. He went to the Jags for more money -
Bouye left the defending AFC South champions Thursday when he landed a blockbuster contract from the Jacksonville Jaguars, signing a five-year, $67.5 million deal that includes $26 million guaranteed at signing and a $44 million payout in the first three years.
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LINK
​
So it isn't like we "just let him walk" as some folks are implying.

As comparison, KJ is in the 3rd yr of a four-year $34 mil contract and J-Jo is on a two-year, $13.5 mil contract.

Bouye left to be paid as a #1 CB.

...which he would not have been with the Texans.
 
JB said:
Being prepared is not the problem, and they haven't given up. They just don't have the ability and that falls directly on Ricky and the scouting staff
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How does that fall directly on him when the coach, scouting team and Coach look at firm on these players. If they do not fit their scheme, they are not being brought in. Another thing what top offensive linemen was actually available these last two years? Realistically who?
 
Flyingfish said:
Coaches can prepare players, players can execute to the best of their ability, but when their abilities are insufficient the result is the hot garbage that is the Texans OL.

Rick's talent evaluations and acquisitions continue to bring trained and limited-talent ducks to the chicken fights...
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Rick is not the only one evaluating these players? Why don't yall understand that is crazy too me.
 
ObsiWan said:
People seem to (conveniently) forget we made Bouye an offer for a contract extension before his initial contract was up. Their top offer was for $60 mil over five years with $22 mil guaranteed. His agent convinced him to test the mkt. He went to the Jags for more money -
LINK
​
So it isn't like we "just let him walk" as some folks are implying.

As comparison, KJ is in the 3rd yr of a four-year $34 mil contract and J-Jo is on a two-year, $13.5 mil contract.

Bouye left to be paid as a #1 CB.

...which he would not have been with the Texans.
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Thank you.
 
Texansballer74 said:
How does that fall directly on him when the coach, scouting team and Coach look at firm on these players. If they do not fit their scheme, they are not being brought in. Another thing what top offensive linemen was actually available these last two years? Realistically who?
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You think the coaches are spending lots of their time in scouting players? What does the scouting staff spend their time on, teaching? Maybe that is why things are so screwed up
 
JB said:
You think the coaches are spending lots of their time in scouting players? What does the scouting staff spend their time on, teaching? Maybe that is why things are so screwed up
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The scouting staff scouts all thru the applicable seasons (separate college & pro scouts). Once the team season ends the scouts produce reports on each and a position ranking. That gets turned over to the coaching staff to review. The coaches are intimately involved from whenever the season ends to the draft. Thru this period the coaches are the primary opinions with the scouts available as a reference. That's pretty generically true.
 
JB said:
You think the coaches are spending lots of their time in scouting players? What does the scouting staff spend their time on, teaching? Maybe that is why things are so screwed up
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So you believe Bill O'Brien is lying when he says he looks at film on these players?

So the scouting team goes after players they think will fit the system? They report back to both Rick and O'Brien. Sometimes the coach and gm will have the scout team to go look at specific players as well.

But hey people always wants to blame one individual. Especially if it's a person they do not like.

If Rick was doing that bad of a job, McNair wouldn't have given him an healthy extension.
 
infantrycak said:
The scouting staff scouts all thru the applicable seasons (separate college & pro scouts). Once the team season ends the scouts produce reports on each and a position ranking. That gets turned over to the coaching staff to review. The coaches are intimately involved from whenever the season ends to the draft. Thru this period the coaches are the primary opinions with the scouts available as a reference. That's pretty generically true.
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I understand... I was referring to in-season transactions
 
Texansballer74 said:
So you believe Bill O'Brien is lying when he says he looks at film on these players?

So the scouting team goes after players they think will fit the system? They report back to both Rick and O'Brien. Sometimes the coach and gm will have the scout team to go look at specific players as well.

But hey people always wants to blame one individual. Especially if it's a person they do not like.

If Rick was doing that bad of a job, McNair wouldn't have given him an healthy extension.
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Rick has done some good things, but team building is not one of them. Any other organization he would have been shown the door with Kubiak if not before. But here he became BFF with the owners son and godparent to owners grandchildren. His tenure here has been mediocre, just like the Texans. I'm not blaming it all on him, the coaching staff has not been what we wanted either, and RS had his hand in the pie there too
 
Speedy said:
Talent helps.
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Not really directed at you.

Sure it does. But you can't look at player performance and say it is solely talent. It's coaching for technigue and fit/utilization within a scheme. What you see on Sundays is the sum total.

Since OL is our biggest problem, Gibbs (ZBS) & Houck (power) built some of the most highly regarded OLs of NFL history and with many players who were considered "untalented" or "yeoman." Not everyone can build a great OL out of those guys but it shouldn't take all high round picks. You ought to be able to look at the players and see them get better. You may see physical limitations but you shouldn't see players who don't know their assignments. When I see those things I see waiving red flags that whatever talent is there is under-utilized/not being fully shown.

And that applies to FAs too. Pretty good/solid/decent starter elsewhere comes here and 'looks like dog crap.'
 
infantrycak said:
Not really directed at you.

Sure it does. But you can't look at player performance and say it is solely talent. It's coaching for technigue and fit/utilization within a scheme. What you see on Sundays is the sum total.

Since OL is our biggest problem, Gibbs (ZBS) & Houck (power) built some of the most highly regarded OLs of NFL history and with many players who were considered "untalented" or "yeoman." Not everyone can build a great OL out of those guys but it shouldn't take all high round picks. You ought to be able to look at the players and see them get better. You may see physical limitations but you shouldn't see players who don't know their assignments. When I see those things I see waiving red flags that whatever talent is there is under-utilized/not being fully shown.

And that applies to FAs too. Pretty good/solid/decent starter elsewhere comes here and 'looks like dog crap.'
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Oh no, I get all that. Just responding to what seemed like someone saying coaching fixes it all. Gibbs ain't doing jack with Kendall Lamm or XSF.

Coaching it up is a part of it, yes, definitely, but the degree of execution is more than likely going to come down to talent.
 
JB said:
Rick has done some good things, but team building is not one of them. Any other organization he would have been shown the door with Kubiak if not before. But here he became BFF with the owners son and godparent to owners grandchildren. His tenure here has been mediocre, just like the Texans. I'm not blaming it all on him, the coaching staff has not been what we wanted either, and RS had his hand in the pie there too
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JB now this what I can get down with. Well said brother.

I was hoping RS got dusted right along with Kubiak.
 
Speedy said:
Oh no, I get all that. Just responding to what seemed like someone saying coaching fixes it all. Gibbs ain't doing jack with Kendall Lamm or XSF.

Coaching it up is a part of it, yes, definitely, but the degree of execution is more than likely going to come down to talent.
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Man stop putting words in my mouth. I never said anything remotely to that. What I said was coaches has to coach these players up. Why do you think the Patriots doesn't miss a beat even when Brady is out? Those players are not as talented but they are well damn coached.
 
Rick Smith gets too much credit for the hits he has had in the first round over the years. You guys seriously think no other GM knew Watt, Hopkins, or Watson were gonna be good? Lol

I wish McNair had the balls to hold Rick Smith accountable for the trash he’s put together and tries to pass as depth throughout the roster, but he doesn’t.
 
JB said:
Rick has done some good things, but team building is not one of them. Any other organization he would have been shown the door with Kubiak if not before. But here he became BFF with the owners son and godparent to owners grandchildren. His tenure here has been mediocre, just like the Texans. I'm not blaming it all on him, the coaching staff has not been what we wanted either, and RS had his hand in the pie there too
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This all falls on McNair. He's making money, he's happy.
 
steelbtexan said:
This all falls on McNair. He's making money, he's happy.
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I think not. He didn't buy the team JUST to make money. He wants desperately to win, he just doesn't know how. He knows how to make money in a corporate boardroom environment, so that is what he's trying now. And other billionaires that he respects are telling him that he's doing a great job. That they are competitors hasn't sunk in yet. And I think Cal is a much bigger influence than most realize... how's that for scary?
 
JB said:
I think not. He didn't buy the team JUST to make money. He wants desperately to win, he just doesn't know how. He knows how to make money in a corporate boardroom environment, so that is what he's trying now. And other billionaires that he respects are telling him that he's doing a great job. That they are competitors hasn't sunk in yet. And I think Cal is a much bigger influence than most realize... how's that for scary?
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Makes me shiver me timbers!!!
 
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Little comparison thru 4 years:

Dom Capers
Started with nothing.
Overall 18-46
4th season 2-14
4th season rankings pts/yds
Offense 26th/30th
Defense 32nd/31st

Gary Kubiak
Started with above
Overall 31-33
4th season 9-7
4th season rankings pts/yds
Offense 10th/4th
Defense 17th/13th

Bill O'Brian
Started with
Prior record 2-14
Offense 31st/11th
Defense 24th/7th
Overall 31-33
4th season 4-12 (assumed)
4th4th season rankings pts/yds
Offense 12th/13th (current and will go down)
Defense 29th/20th
 
Texansballer74 said:
Man stop putting words in my mouth. I never said anything remotely to that. What I said was coaches has to coach these players up. Why do you think the Patriots doesn't miss a beat even when Brady is out? Those players are not as talented but they are well damn coached.
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Well, to hell with the draft then. Just sign UDFAs and get better coaches.:trophy: here we come!
 
JB said:
I think not. He didn't buy the team JUST to make money. He wants desperately to win, he just doesn't know how. He knows how to make money in a corporate boardroom environment, so that is what he's trying now. And other billionaires that he respects are telling him that he's doing a great job. That they are competitors hasn't sunk in yet. And I think Cal is a much bigger influence than most realize... how's that for scary?
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If he wants to win so bad why doesn't he spend top $$$$ to get the best GM/Scouts possible to help him achieve this goal?

Agreed about Cal, (Very scary if you care) Seems like dad bought his son a cash cow toy to play with.
 
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