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[Sources] OB & Smith relationship has worsened

Scooter said:
Do you watch the games you're talking about?
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You clearly don't, because if you think the Texans and the Broncos were all that different this year or last year then good luck with that one. The Broncos just had an all time great defense last season. They were the 01 Ravens. Good for them. They won with all defense. Manning was hot garbage last season, and their offense was never a strong unit.

banned1976 said:
Manning threw 9 TD's to 17 interceptions in 2015. They won a Super Bowl with that QB playing his worst season since his rookie year and Brock Osweiler. Pretty similar situation to this team. Great defense and piss poor passing attack.
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Yep. Defense was at an all time level. That team was already in place, and Wade took a great defense and made it worldly. They also had some help from NE's kicker gifting them a win by missing an extra point FG.
 
sandman said:
My point was that the team Kubiak/Wade inherited from John Fox, who had a .792 winning percentage the previous three years and just took the Broncos to the SB, was quite a different team than what Kubiak/Wade were fired from in 2013. Taking the Broncos, primed to repeat as AFC Champs back to the SB, doesn't nullify the justifiable firings for going 2-14 with the Texans back in 2013. They are mutually exclusive events and are not a referendum on the Texans FO.
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There's a site called Pro Football Reference. Go there. Pick the 2012 season and then click on 'Starters and Roster'. Those asterisks are the 7 offensive probowlers that were on the team when O'Brien signed on. That doesn't include Hopkins and Brooks. You were saying about 'inherited'?
 
banned1976 said:
I'm afraid this may be a San Francisco Trent Baalke/Jim Harbaugh type of situation. 4 coaches in 4 years and then McNair will fire Smith after he's burned the organization to the ground.
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That's also going to be the perception of the rest of the league if O'Brien walks away. It'll to make this organization look very bad.
 
I just got to thinking about the kind of coach McNair would go after if O'Brien leaves. It'll be one who won't have the power to tell Smith and McNair that Osweiler is not the answer. It'll be his job to make Osweiler work. Remember, benching Osweiler was "gutsy."

If that happens, we won't have a realistic solution at QB for at least two more years.
 
sandman said:
You mean they took a team that had already been to the SB the year before they took the jobs, back to the SB? With the greatest QB to ever play the game outside of Brady? And that Top 5 defense? And now this year with no QB the Broncos looked like the Texans? You mean THAT coaching staff?
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I think you're making my point for me, they inherited a team built up by a competent GM.
 
Brisco_County said:
I just got to thinking about the kind of coach McNair would go after if O'Brien leaves. It'll be one who won't have the power to tell Smith and McNair that Osweiler is not the answer. It'll be his job to make Osweiler work. Remember, benching Osweiler was "gutsy."

If that happens, we won't have a realistic solution at QB for at least two more years.
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Osweiler was drafted by the Denver Broncos after they signed Peyton Manning to Peyton Manning money. They new Peyton was only going to play so long.

Right now, we don't know if Brock is the answer. We know Savage has an issue with his availability.

If I were the Texans, I'd be very, very interested in hiring the OC of the Broncos when they drafted Brock.

Whether we get Mike McCoy as our offensive coordinator, or head coach, I think it would help our offense, regardless who our QB is.

But I'm drafting a QB. I made up my mind when Savage went into the locker room. Brock & the rookie will make the team. Weeden has the leg up in the back up QB competition over the off season.

If Brock doesn't prove he deserves to be here as our starter beyond 2017, my rookie will probably be starting after Thanksgiving & into 2018, with another drafted QB nipping at his heals (unless Weeden has us in the playoff race).
 
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thunderkyss said:
Osweiler was drafted by the Denver Broncos after they signed Peyton Manning to Peyton Manning money. They new Peyton was only going to play so long.

Right now, we don't know if Brock is the answer. We know Savage has an issue with his availability.

If I were the Texans, I'd be very, very interested in hiring the OC of the Broncos when they drafted Brock.

Whether we get Mike McCoy as our offensive coordinator, or head coach, I think it would help our offense, regardless who our QB is.
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Mike McCoy was the OC in Denver when they drafted Brock. Adam Gase was the QB coach.

With that said, I wouldn't put much stock into McCoy having a say in Brock being drafted by Denver. Elway had a long history with Brock before the draft with Brock being good friends with Elway's son in college. It was Elway's call to bring him in to develop him to follow Peyton.

The reason he was caught so off-guard by Brock leaving for Houston was because of their close relationship. He never anticipated him leaving because they were close and he had tagged him as Manning's successor 3 years prior. Kubiak benching him for the playoffs changed everything though.
 
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banned1976 said:
Manning threw 9 TD's to 17 interceptions in 2015. They won a Super Bowl with that QB playing his worst season since his rookie year and Brock Osweiler. Pretty similar situation to this team. Great defense and piss poor passing attack.
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WolverineFan said:
Mike McCoy was the OC in Denver when they drafted Brock. Adam Gase was the QB coach.

With that said, I wouldn't put much stock into McCoy having a say in Brock being drafted by Denver. Elway had a long history with Brock before the draft with Brock being good friends with Elway's son in college. It was Elway's call to bring him in to develop him to follow Peyton.

The reason he was caught so off-guard by Brock leaving for Houston was because of their close relationship. He never anticipated him leaving because he had tagged him as Manning's successor 3 years prior.
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It was a ridiculous idea to suggest being that we would be hiring a guy just because he was around when Brock was drafted. That doesn't say anything other than the fact that he had poor judgement if that was his decision. Brock has been awful.
 
O'B and Rick Smith need to leave period. I don't like either one but unfortunately only O'Brien is leaving. :(
 
WolverineFan said:
I'm surprised more hasn't been said about this.....
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Seems like LZ is hinting that Smith is the leak.
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Texan Fan's worst nightmare is Bill goes to the Jags to be with his BFF Doug Marrone . What would really stink if he takes the DC and a few others with him and they start kicking the Texans butt twice a year .
 
Brisco_County said:
I just got to thinking about the kind of coach McNair would go after if O'Brien leaves. It'll be one who won't have the power to tell Smith and McNair that Osweiler is not the answer. It'll be his job to make Osweiler work. Remember, benching Osweiler was "gutsy."

If that happens, we won't have a realistic solution at QB for at least two more years.
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Remember, David Carr and Kubiak's chore to make him work out as terms for his hire by McNair................
 
TheMatrix31 said:
There is no ******* way O'Brien only had input on Miller.

He's responsible for all these fucks.
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Here's the problem with that theory. It's been stated publicly that Smith and O'Brien each have say on the final 53, but that Smith has the deciding vote.

As those with experience in the military (and large corporations for that matter) can tell you...the deciding vote is ultimately the only one that counts.
 
disaacks3 said:
Here's the problem with that theory. It's been stated publicly that Smith and O'Brien each have say on the final 53, but that Smith has the deciding vote.

As those with experience in the military (and large corporations for that matter) can tell you...the deciding vote is ultimately the only one that counts.
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If there is any question about the chain of command and Houston Texans, this is how they are listed on the Texans website: http://www.houstontexans.com/team/front-office.html
 
disaacks3 said:
Here's the problem with that theory. It's been stated publicly that Smith and O'Brien each have say on the final 53, but that Smith has the deciding vote.

As those with experience in the military (and large corporations for that matter) can tell you...the deciding vote is ultimately the only one that counts.
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He's just sounding off on his typical rants he bursts in here with every few months.

There is no point in trying to rationalize this to him. He hates OB, and says it every time he makes a post. Kubiak was his guy.
 
Is anyone thinking about the possibility that OB could end up in Indy if he is let go?

That would be a nice move by them if you ask me.
 
Hervoyel said:
That's what we most have to look out for right now. There's a lot of feces blowing in the wind right now and no matter who you like or don't like in the Texans organization there's no way anyone can possibly believe that this season has gone the way O'Brien, McNair, or Rick McNair wanted it to. Anyone who has any culpability here is going to be making sure that it's their lies that the media repeats most if possible.

Team Texans doesn't have a clear trail of accountability that they're willing to share with the rest of the world so we have only the clues, the leaks, and the speculation to put together a picture with so we're going to get some stuff wrong.

I believe that the two primary football people (I use that term loosely at this point about them both) are not guys I could readily see working together well. Looks may be deceiving but Rick and Bill don't look like either one of them would hire the other if given a choice. If some other source like the Hard Knocks people backed that up I'd be inclined to believe that they make it work rather than it working naturally.

Since we've been hearing weird stuff about who went out and got Os from the very start I totally believe the "Rick forced Os on OB" story. When he started talking about not speaking with Os (other than meeting him during joint practices with the Broncos a year before) prior to the Texans signing him every red flag in Houston went up.

I don't think the "roll with Savage for a year" thing is worth much but it might be true. I don't have any idea what Bill O'Brien looks for in a quarterback. I don't know if he wants one in a house, with a mouse, here or there or anywhere. He signs them old and signs them young, he likes tall ones, short ones, bearded ones, and bald ones. You know, about the only consistent thing with Bill O'Brien's choice of QB's so far has been he seems to have an affinity for guys who can't hit the broad side of a barn.

I don't even think the Lamer Miller signing is that big a feather in anybody's hat so I have no idea why O'Brien would want to single that out as the one he had input in. They went out and got Miami's change of pace back and fed him so much he damn near broke down and just barely topped a thousand yards? Big deal. Any reasonably talented RB can do this in today's NFL. You give the ball to Jonathan Grimes and it wouldn't be as pretty but I bet he could get a thousand yards in 268 carries.

I really believe most of the rest of it though. Smith got his job because of Gary Kubiak and he was subservient to Gary the whole time. I imagine it took a whole lot of ass kissing to transform him into "Rick McNair" and he's not going to sit idly by and see someone else come in here and run things their way. Whether this stuff is all true or not you won't get a replacement for O'Brien here worth anything until Rick's gone. Nobody worth a **** is going to want to deal with this and if O'Brien goes somewhere else and rattles off 10-11 wins the Texans are going to look like pretty stupid.
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Kubiak and his staff endorses this message.


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CloakNNNdagger said:
No HC would be doing this just prior to the Playoffs...........creating a massive controversy through leaks. This was never O'Brien.
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Didn't Rick do this to Kubiak too? It was either draft picks or wanting to play Schaub or something. I vaguely remember something happened along those lines.

But why would it leak that OB had no input on the off season acquisitions other than Miller? Purposely misdirecting for deniability?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
No HC would be doing this just prior to the Playoffs...........creating a massive controversy through leaks. This was never O'Brien.
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I would not be surprised if we learned that it was O'Brien's agent talking to Glazer and that O'Brien already has interviews lined up for next week. O'Brien may have already decided that he's had enough of the Kirby Circus and he's moving on. By leaking, it would put O'Brien in the conversation with those six teams now looking for head coaches and not getting lost in the shuffle over the next week or two. Smith's go to guys to leak information in the past has always been either Peter King or Ian Rapoport.
 
The frustrating aspect about this all is there's a very winnable playoff game this weekend so of course this has to come out now. Aside from the Browns, nobody self-sabotages their chances at success quite like the Texans. So damn frustrating.
 
WolverineFan said:
I'm surprised more hasn't been said about this.....
C1SaHmSUoAAxeVk.jpg:large

Seems like LZ is hinting that Smith is the leak.
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Three key points from that text exchange need to be processed:

1) "Rick Smith is about to get a good coach run out of town?"

This is how the rest of the league and the media regard O'Brien, whether you agree or not. If O'Brien leaves, the organization is stuck with this reputation: "Houston has a GM that runs off good coaches."

2) "Your city should be up in arms."

Yes, we should.

Our coach had established a path to transition his chosen QB, and that plan was T-boned by the GM's mandate to start his guy, who then abysmally under performed. And that's somehow the coach's fault when the QB can't time a crossing route to save his life.

3) "And why would Rick Smith put that out there before the playoffs? You never do something so selfish before the playoffs, it should always be about the team."

Correct. Smith is saving his own skin at the expense of the team, just like in 2013 when he threw Kubiak under the bus to the media.

This also adds to my first point about the organization's reputation. Not only does our GM run off good coaches, but he puts his own interests and job security ahead of the welfare of the team.

Let that sink in: Smith is creating a distraction for the team right before their playoff game -- just to defer liability from himself.

CloakNNNdagger said:
No HC would be doing this just prior to the Playoffs...........creating a massive controversy through leaks. This was never O'Brien.
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I certainly hope the McNair family is as stunned as we are.
 
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TexansBull said:
Didn't Rick do this to Kubiak too? It was either draft picks or wanting to play Schaub or something. I vaguely remember something happened along those lines.

But why would it leak that OB had no input on the off season acquisitions other than Miller? Purposely misdirecting for deniability?
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Yes it was Rapoport who reported the Texans FO was not comfortable with coaches having too much say on the players that were drafted. This was right after the Sam Montgomery fiasco.
 
Texian said:
Yes it was Rapoport who reported the Texans FO was not comfortable with coaches having too much say on the players that were drafted. This was right after the Sam Montgomery fiasco.
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Yeah and I think some stuff happened up unto Kubiaks firing and Rick had done him dirty in some way.

Funny thing is someone asked about the JJ Watt selection about it being Wade's a year or two ago and Rick said something like "the draft picks are never one person but a team approach."
 
sandman said:
You mean they took a team that had already been to the SB the year before they took the jobs, back to the SB? With the greatest QB to ever play the game outside of Brady? And that Top 5 defense? And now this year with no QB the Broncos looked like the Texans? You mean THAT coaching staff?
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Yes that coaching staff that won a Super Bowl with a roster a GM knew how to put together.

You can give a bad coach an outstanding roster and they will still screw it up.

THAT coaching staff you are talking about was smart enough not to screw it up.

Do you have any doubt that if Rick Smith had put together that type of roster, the Texans would be at least 12-4 right now?

That is my main point. It is ultimately Ricky's responsibility to put together the roster. He can blame someone else all he wants but it is his job.

The Texans are 88-88 under Ricky's tenure. Let THAT sink in.


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CloakNNNdagger said:
NVM
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Hmm kinda interesting...obrien seemed to be losing the team with brock at the helm so he benched brock and got savage inti the game then starts him..now the powers to be made sure that savage would be out..... end of that controversy or temptation of bill starting brock and guving him the quick hook in the game if he isnt performing to obriens standards...
 
Wolf said:
Hmm kinda interesting...obrien seemed to be losing the team with brock at the helm so he benched brock and got savage inti the game then starts him..now the powers to be made sure that savage would be out..... end of that controversy or temptation of bill starting brock and guving him the quick hook in the game if he isnt performing to obriens standards...
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How do the powers that be control who in concussion protocol? Do we really think that they hold away over the doctors? I am not saying it can't happen, but it is a stretch.
 
I'm beginning to understand why Stephanie Stradley lit up Rick Smith at the end of 2013.

If O'Brien and his staff leave instead of Smith, then the media -- local and national -- are going to make life difficult for McNair. Many local writers thought Smith should've been let go with Kubiak, and those same writers have a higher opinion of O'Brien than Smith.

I personally thought Smith had done ok over the years, hit-or-miss, but this situation needs to be the end of the road for him in Houston.
 
All you need to do is look at my sig to understand my stance. The pink soap is for both. However, I do think BOB can be a good HC. Right now - he's below average imo and I won't go into detail here why - but I do think he has potential to become a good HC. Having said that, I wouldn't be sad to see him go. My fear is that he takes Romeo with him.

But if the question is this - we can fire either Ricky or BOB, who do you want gone, I'm letting Rick go. Good Christian family man, but he's a cancer on the organization imo. And yes, he is "apparently" throwing BOB under the bus, just as he did Kubiak. And I don't know if he has pics of Mcnair naked with some farm animals or what - but for whatever reason he can do no wrong.

And it's been clear from the start that BOB and Rick do not work well together. It's like oil and water. And for that - I blame McNair. He should have tossed Rick when he let Kubes go.

He should have brought in a new GM who then was in charge of hiring a HC that he can work with and sees eye to eye with so that the vision is unified. Right now, It's like Rick thinks in Chinese and BOB thinks in Japanese.

All of this comes right back to ownership. The end.
 
TexansBull said:
How do the powers that be control who in concussion protocol? Do we really think that they hold away over the doctors? I am not saying it can't happen, but it is a stretch.
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Heck as my post was joking but in the back of my mind i wonder how they could have let JJ play on sundays last season with bow badly he was tore up.
Pisses me off that he was playing when he could barely walk.just wonder how that much it shortened his career (yeah CnD posts have me a little concerned)
 
TexansBull said:
Yeah and I think some stuff happened up unto Kubiaks firing and Rick had done him dirty in some way.

Funny thing is someone asked about the JJ Watt selection about it being Wade's a year or two ago and Rick said something like "the draft picks are never one person but a team approach."
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Yep but Wade let it slip that McNair promised him the first pick in the next two drafts if he would agree to become the Texans DC and fix the Texans horrible defense. Say hello to JJ Watt and Whitney Mercilus.
 
TexansBull said:
Yeah and I think some stuff happened up unto Kubiaks firing and Rick had done him dirty in some way.

Funny thing is someone asked about the JJ Watt selection about it being Wade's a year or two ago and Rick said something like "the draft picks are never one person but a team approach."
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Yep but Wade let it slip that McNair promised him the first pick in the next two drafts if he would agree to become the Texans DC and fix the Texans horrible defense. Say hello to JJ Watt and Whitney Mercilus.

and yes it was Rickytic who leaked that the coaches had to much power and say so virtually throwing the guy who brought him to Houston under the bus. McNair was already having a temper tantrum because Gary pulled Keenum and put Schaub in trying to win the game and to keep Keenum from getting killed.
 
If Rick Smith is indeed behind the leak, then he should be run out of town immediately. It's an incredibly selfish and thoughtless move. Our focus should be on beating the Raiders and instead we are dealing with this. Regardless of what you think about BOB this is complete bush league.
 
Porky said:
All you need to do is look at my sig to understand my stance. The pink soap is for both. However, I do think BOB can be a good HC. Right now - he's below average imo and I won't go into detail here why - but I do think he has potential to become a good HC. Having said that, I wouldn't be sad to see him go. My fear is that he takes Romeo with him.
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In the three years O'Brien has been our coach I would say he's been in the above average to good range. He hasn't been great but I would say three straight 9-7 seasons is good and definitely makes me wonder how good he can be if he got decent QB play on his team.
 
TexansBull said:
Yeah and I think some stuff happened up unto Kubiaks firing and Rick had done him dirty in some way.

Funny thing is someone asked about the JJ Watt selection about it being Wade's a year or two ago and Rick said something like "the draft picks are never one person but a team approach."
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That certainly aligns with the insight provided by Cal McNair that this is a front office that values consensus-building in the boardroom.

JCTexan said:
In the three years O'Brien has been our coach I would say he's been in the above average to good range. He hasn't been great but I would say three straight 9-7 seasons is good and definitely makes me wonder how good he can be if he got decent QB play on his team.
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I agree. I believe O'Brien's system would thrive with the right* QB under center.

*The only problem is that there is only one Tom Brady and he seems to be happy where he's at right now. ;)
 
Double Barrel said:
*The only problem is that there is only one Tom Brady and he seems to be happy where he's at right now. ;)
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I doubt he will be if the Pats don't trade Jimmy. They could still decide to keep him for the long haul, and let Brady go by 2018. It is unlikely, but not as much as people think.
 
JCTexan said:
In the three years O'Brien has been our coach I would say he's been in the above average to good range. He hasn't been great but I would say three straight 9-7 seasons is good and definitely makes me wonder how good he can be if he got decent QB play on his team.
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I'm not looking strictly at the record, but even if that is the end all be all, Romeo and the D in general is carrying his ass to 9-7. BOB is an offensive guru (supposedly) whose offenses have stunk. Put BOB's offense with the Raiders defense and you get the Cleveland Browns. Would he still look so good then? BOB offensive scheme is horrible. Hate it. Then you have all of the WTF play calls, the bad clock management, bad in game decisions, being consistently destroyed on national TV, and generally being schooled by good HC's week after week. Finally, the "QB guru" hasn't made any QB significantly better than his career suggests other than the beard. And the beard was summarily booted to the curb because he wasn't good enough - and he's been the best we've had to be honest.

So, God love you if you think BOB has been good. But I'll take the way under on that proposition.
 
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